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Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)


Xcore

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Yes default is 0.5 but it is important to understand that it is not the Queuing of Abilities that is the issue, it is the execution of an ability.

 

It has nothing to do with this sadly, for example... I cast "Aimed Shot"... about 0.5 seconds after I hit my button it starts to cast (at 40-50 FPS and 20ms Latency). Also, my "next ability" that I am spamming already before the Aimed Shot Cast Time is completed (as to not miss any time between) never goes off and no animation ever happens...

 

I mean, the whole system is just messed up, not smooth... not responsive.

 

I have this issue with Blade Storm and Riposte.

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In a way, this discussion makes me think of Dragon Age Origins combat, vs DA2's combat.

 

Origins had what I consider 'realistic' animations; the combat looked hard, heavy, and effortful. But apparently lots of folks though it was 'too slow.'

 

DA2 had what I consider 'anime' combat; leaping across the room in the blink of an eye, whipping weapons around that are apparently weightless. Yet some liked it's "responsiveness."

 

 

Well yeh, that's the thing. We can press keyboard buttons a lot faster then humans can properly move. However, since we're playing a game we want our 'human' to react as fast as we click our keyboard buttons.

 

Thus 'realistic' animation is not something that you can really expect if you want a game that's actually nice to play.

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I think this might be a real issue for "caster" classes. Like smugglers, BH etc. But I'm also thinking that it could be that in WoW we had a lot of addons. There is the specific addon that do the account for latency so that you could chain and combo abilities better. I can't remember the addom. Spellcaster maybe or if it was like Castbar?

 

It could very well be those kinds of addons that has made WoW feel so much better in these aspects?

 

I played a warlock in WoW as my main for a few years, and were in a couple of highend raids in vanilla and TBC, never did PvP much, and I kind of notice what it is that the OP talks about. And I fell it is most noticeable in the Warzones.

 

So maybe, if an addon, like the ones who exist for WoW, comes to SWTOR, this might not be an issue anymore?

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As I mentioned before on some random post, I believe this is mostly an animation issue.

 

If you don't "combo" skills, you will hardly notice any delay at all. Problem really start to happens when you have to cast your skills on a determined sequence and, obviously, expect the instant ones to be instant and respect only the GCD.

 

But, this is not what really happens, and it is easy to test:

 

If you are a Sith Sorcerer, for instance. Try this: start your Lightning Strike spell and, right before it ends, start Force Lightning, so the system can queue it after strike is casted.

 

What you will see is that Force Lightning animation (AND DAMAGE) starts a bit AFTER the channeling bar appears. The channeling bar appears exactly when it should, altho the animation and the damage starts a bit later because they took in account the finishing time of the previous animation being processed, in that case, Lightning Strike one.

 

So, basically, what do we really have in SWTOR, are 2 different kinds of cooldowns between abilities: the GCD one, already known to most of us, AND the animation sequence for each ability.

 

 

I'm not sure if this is good or bad. GuildWars 2 for instance, will launch with an animation based cooldown, and not a 'set in stone' GCD. Maybe it is just a thing for us to adapt.

 

 

Regards

 

 

I agree with this reply. I´ve played WoW, not as a PvP player, but I have raided end game content. I agree that there is some responsiveness delay, but I don´t think it´s an issue really. It´s the way the developers found to fit the improved animations in the game. Is it perfect? Surely not, but I don´t find it game breaking so far. I´ll probably have a better formed opinion once I get to do an operation, but I doubt it´ll be too bad.

However, I sympathize with the PvP guys if this really is an issue, and I hope they can solve it somehow.

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I came over from City of Heroes/Villains and one thing I cannot stand (and maybe this is what your talking about) is when I select a power (ability) I dont have access to any other power - you see the them grey out and a line go through them. ***? You cannot que powers to fire off next. I fing hate this. It feels so wonky.
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Amazing post.

 

My friends and I use the word "arcadey" when describing what the OP means. The responsiveness and intuitiveness when playing an arcade game is super smooth, so its the term we use.

 

The vast majority of arcadey games on the PC are FPS, so its not surprising why they're so popular. Blizzard manages to create an arcadey feel with their RTS, their isometric RPGs, and their MMO, hence; their games are not only popular but they also have lasting appeal.

 

/cue the anti-popular, anti-blizzard crowd

Edited by ruminate
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I agree with this reply. I´ve played WoW, not as a PvP player, but I have raided end game content. I agree that there is some responsiveness delay, but I don´t think it´s an issue really. It´s the way the developers found to fit the improved animations in the game. Is it perfect? Surely not, but I don´t find it game breaking so far. I´ll probably have a better formed opinion once I get to do an operation, but I doubt it´ll be too bad.

However, I sympathize with the PvP guys if this really is an issue, and I hope they can solve it somehow.

 

As a pvper, the game breaking issue could be explained like this. I currently am playing a level 34 sith sorc. I have 2 ranged stuns/interupts. Say i start to cast force lighting at you, and you start to cast something at me.

 

If my interupt is off cd, I want to use it against you. But i need it to happen RIGHT NOW. Not 1 second later, not even .5 seconds later, right now. Unfortunately with the current combat system, I would have to wait for my force lightning animation to stop , and my interupt animation to start, before the effect actually interupted you.

 

For this reason, the pvp is very clunky to me, and imo will never have a competitive edge.

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I claim no techincal expertise in this issue, but another thing I have noticed that I haven't seen posted here yet, is my instant cast spells seem to "root" my character when cast.

 

I can only assume this is because my character needs to stop to perform the animation of the spell? I was just running, and cast my stun as sith sorc. My character stopped, cast it, then went back to running. This is an instant spell, I should be able to cast it on the run?

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As a pvper, the game breaking issue could be explained like this. I currently am playing a level 34 sith sorc. I have 2 ranged stuns/interupts. Say i start to cast force lighting at you, and you start to cast something at me.

 

If my interupt is off cd, I want to use it against you. But i need it to happen RIGHT NOW. Not 1 second later, not even .5 seconds later, right now. Unfortunately with the current combat system, I would have to wait for my force lightning animation to stop , and my interupt animation to start, before the effect actually interupted you.

 

For this reason, the pvp is very clunky to me, and imo will never have a competitive edge.

 

Another good example:

 

I have a BH. I use my stun ability and while the target is stunned I want to use my Death from Above ability (which is a 3 second channel ability that requires you to select a spot to target on the ground) Well, by the time my DFA ability is "ready to cast" the 4 second stun is almost completely worn off. So, instead of being able to get the whole ability to cast while they are stunned I am spending most of the stun time waiting for my ability to be ready.

 

It is a big issue for me.

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Let's make sure we keep this thread right at the top. There are two or three massive threads about the same issue and if combined we would have a 1000 reply thread... easily.

 

I am desperate for this to be fixed asap as its critical to the survival of the game and the community. Many people will just cancel over this, and many many many more will feel the game just isn't right and isn't as good as wow because of how this exact issue affects their gaming experience.

 

We all expect bugs, crappy talent trees, iffy fps, unpredictable server pop and planet pop, queues, and a lack of endgame content - this is just the way that MMOs are at the beginning. What we don't expect are for fundamentally flawed game mechanics to survive past the very early stages of launch. This will sink this game if left alone.

 

It won't drown completely but it will soon be in the realms of Aion, Conan and Warhammer if they don't resolve it.

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Holy HELL I thought I was the only person having this issue. I genuinely thought I was lagging. Kept asking around, had no clue what was going on. My roommate said he was getting no lag, but he never played the highest tiers of PvP, as you describe. I did, and I absolutely can't handle queueing Warfronts because of this issue. I was waiting until I went back home to test my connection out there, but clearly I'm not the only one having this issue as I thought.

 

Bioware, this is a critical issue. It is gamebreaking.

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You're one of those people that will look at a product's brand before the product and purchase it.

 

"Adapting" is not a valid arguement in the slightest. Why should the players adapt when things can be improved upon by the PEOPLE WHO MADE THE GAME?! This is their job. When an MMO is released, it is the developers JOB to constantly aim to improve and work upon the game for the benefit of the people playing it.

 

Telling the developer that a serious game breaking issue is "fine, don't worry about it we'll all adapt and suffer with this huge issue!" isn't going to help anyone; the developers will become lazy and ignore serious complaints, leading the customers to put up with a half attempted game.

 

Oh by the way, you said earlier that this type of issue doesn't end/break games? Look at Warhammer Online. Then look at World of Warcraft. One has over ten million subscribers, the other is barely getting by. Want to know why? Because of things like ability delay.

 

Any other fanboys that may be reading this: You are entitled to support whoever you like, but please for the game's sake, the developer's sake and your fellow players' sake, help the game grow by accepting problems with the game and getting BioWare's attention to fix them!

 

I bet you're the type of person who sits around projecting his misery onto others all day long in online forums; especially those with a difference of opinion. I mean, so long as we're making generalizations here I can be equally dismissive and just label you a whiner.

 

Adapting is a perfectly relevant argument because that's generally what you expect when playing a new game. Most of the people on this board seem to be complaining because they want this game to play like WoW. Well, it isn't WoW. This is essentially what your idea of "improving" the game is: cloning WoW's mechanics. If it doesn't play like WoW, then it is omggamebreaking!

 

I beta tested WAR from Friends and Family until launch. Ability delay was the least of that game's problems. I also think it is premature to worry about the devs becoming complacent. The game has been out 6 days. 6. days. That might seem like an eternity to you if all you do is sit around and play SWTOR, but for the rest of us, that's less than a week. At least wait for the first patch before you start throwing stones and claiming the end of days is upon us.

 

There is nothing constructive about being pretentious or acting like the game is already dead 6 days after launch. So, stop acting like you're doing us a favor by asserting your opinion as a fact that needs to be addressed by the developers. Your point of view is plausible, but really it comes across as far more disingenuous than sincere.

Edited by Nanotech
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I'll sign on this one too ...This has been on my mind since beta and I thank the Op for bringing it up.

 

My beef:

The game already has enough ninja's and this delay really gives them a good opportunity to tag mobs away from folks who would rather be methodical in thier playstyle. Instead I'm forced to run around like an impatient child.

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No, that's not the issue. I think the issue is the animations they chose to use in the game.

 

To get an idea of what we are talking about, I want you do to something very simple with your character.

 

Stand still. Press space bar.

 

Did you notice that it took about a quarter second for you to leave the ground? It's not lag, it's because your character took time to bend his knees before jumping, thereby creating a delay between pressing the space bar and the actual jump occurring. That delay between pressing a hotkey and the action being carried out is what people are talking about.

 

This is not a frame rate or lag issue.

Then if that is what people are talking about, I hope they keep it as is. Because that's realistic. That's how a person would actually move if they were to jump.

 

Just adapt one's timing to the animations. (speaking only for BH Merc Arsenal, don't know about any other class animations)

 

 

 

 

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Well yeh, that's the thing. We can press keyboard buttons a lot faster then humans can properly move. However, since we're playing a game we want our 'human' to react as fast as we click our keyboard buttons.

 

Thus 'realistic' animation is not something that you can really expect if you want a game that's actually nice to play.

 

I love combat w/ my BH Merc. I have no problem whatsoever w/ animations that look like a real person is doing them, and thus, actually take some time.

 

 

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I guess this is the reason that somehow makes me tend towards sage although I always wanted to play a trooper.

I couldn't grasp it before, it just feels smoother.

 

Edit for noob-question: How can I rate a thread?

 

When you reply (and you're at the window where you type the response post), scroll down there is a drop down menu option in the center that says "Rate Thread"...

 

Thank You for your support.

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This is a problem that should be on the top of Bioware's list of fixes. As a Sith Warrior, my main problem is that double tapping/spamming a key causes the ability to stutter and ultimately delay.

 

It's done to PREVENT spamming. You have to anticipate when your ability is over and then use the next one, spamming the same button over and over will cause delays and make your overall combat experience seem sluggish at best. It's the mechanic BW went with in order to ensure a fair, balanced game with no bunny hopping try hards or one-move-spammers.

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Totally aggre with OP.I really love this game and dont want it to be ruined by this issue.People might say "Why do you compare every game to Wow?".I think this is not a comparison, fluidity of WoW's combat was its most succesful aspect and since WoW has the biggest MMO victory in history,those complaints must be taken care of. Edited by tarcin
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Oh good, I thought I was the only one experiencing this delay between ability casts/ques. (I apologize for any repeats of information but at least it shows that it affects multiple people)

 

As a Sith Sorcerer this delay has been pretty detrimental to my overall enjoyment of the game.

 

For example, say I cast (activate, w/e) Lightning Strike and then I que up a Force Lightning after it. It does look like the game waits for the cast animation of Lightning Strike to complete before showing the animation for Force lightning, it also appears that the damage doesn't happen right at button press either. However, I find this to be incredibly distracting, I've become accustomed to visual stimuli being in sync with when I press my ability buttons that it can become slightly confusing as to whether or not I'm actually casting Force Lightning at the exact time I intended to. I am aware there are other things telling me that Force Lightning is being cast but it still interferes with the fluidity of it all that it makes for an uncomfortable experience as a caster.

 

Another thing is using Dark Heal or Dark Infusion (also a heal). It bugs me to no end that the heal amount isn't being distributed right when the cast bar finishes, but rather when the animation finishes (hands come to a rest). In no way should animations take priority over ability effects. In PvP I usually start moving right away when a cast bar finishes for a heal as movement is important, but when I don't see a heal number right away I may hesitate and think I didn't complete the cast. Which results in me wasting time casting another heal when I should have been moving away from an enemy or towards an ally. Either way it's a disorienting experience in PvP, where fractions of a second count.

 

I really hope issues like these are addressed soon as it's the only thing really stopping me from enjoying the game.

 

Thanks for posting this thread OP

Edited by Bropuff
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