3.2.1 Marauder/Sentinel Insight: Annihilation/Watchman Rotation Design Philosophy

[Costello]

Are the changes to annihilation/watchman an attempt to nerf it inline with the other disciplines.

 

Currently it seems that there isn't a viable discipline for this AC for either PvP or PvE. Will this lead to an across the board boost for mara/sents? Or is it simple not meant to be a viable class and we all need to learn to play?

[Kakisback]

Gives spec stupid clunky new dot with xpac. Community says they hate having to use it. BW says you have to use it- as if its current importance to optimal dps was underestimated. GG. Edited May 7, 2015 by Kakisback

[MorgenBlue]

Are the changes to annihilation/watchman an attempt to nerf it inline with the other disciplines.

 

Currently it seems that there isn't a viable discipline for this AC for either PvP or PvE. Will this lead to an across the board boost for mara/sents? Or is it simple not meant to be a viable class and we all need to learn to play?

 

From the way John is talking I don't think it's supposed to be a viable and fun class.

[AlrikFassbauer]

If they are actually idiots and stay close to each other, just be the idiot to jump into the crowd.

Let´s see what happens.

Let´s see how long the dot-spread, if you succeed to applying it anyway, will keep you alive in a root, stun and focus-fire melangerie.

 

I think, personally, that most clases have this problem, simply because :

 

BHs can PULL.

 

You INTO a group of already assembled Assassins, Sorcs, PTs ...

 

And ALL classes can be PULLED into such an devastating group (by a premade, for example).

[Kakisback]

I think, personally, that most clases have this problem, simply because :

 

BHs can PULL.

 

You INTO a group of already assembled Assassins, Sorcs, PTs ...

 

And ALL classes can be PULLED into such an devastating group (by a premade, for example).

 

Ok you need to stop.

[Nomaad]

....

 

Thanks...biowang....I think ill google mara/sent and L2P now, not that I've been playing the class since launch....

 

....

....

....

[Kakisback]

One of the problems that I suspect you are having as developers and combat designers is that much of what the community is asking for is contrary to some of the overarching, game-wide combat changes that were made between later 2.x and 3.0.

 

Notably, proc-based combat has essentially been entirely removed from the game across the board in favor of non-RNG based rotations. Chain lightning is no longer a proc for sorcerers, but a guaranteed result of lightning strike/thundering blast. Rail shot no longer resets on an RNG proc, but has a set reset. >30% Execute skills aren't percentage chance procs anymore, but happen every time with an internal cool down to balance it out. This was a universal design decision, and you need to keep marauder consistent with it.

 

Guaranteed procs that are not based on RNG are also by definition predictable and by their very nature eliminate a significant skill factor.

 

Similarly, you are pushing force rend because you made a universal design decision to make DOTs a significantly stronger and more important aspect of the game, along with DOT spread.

 

What is happening here is that you are pretty much hamstrung into making annihilation a boring, predictable, lower skill spec because the only way to fix it would be to go back on these universal design decisions.

 

I personally think that this would be a good idea across the board. Removing SOME of the RNG was a good idea, but you went and removed ALL of it, which has significantly dumbed down the combat experience. It's the biggest reason that I went from playing more than four hours a day to playing a few hours a month: the combat is simply not especially interesting anymore for any of the classes. In the case of marauders, it's simply hurt much, much more.

 

Agreed, they definitely went overboard with taking out rng.

[Raansu]

Agreed, they definitely went overboard with taking out rng.

 

No, thats probably one of the few things BW has done correctly. I'm ok with a little rng as long as it has high proc chances (70%+) but procs sitting at 20-30% are dumb. RNG can seriously **** over a spec. Just look at 2.0 carnage when they changed the slaughter proc to 30% chance. You could literally go forever without getting a proc just from simple bad luck. RNG really has no place in any rotation/spec in any MMO.

[cmorea]

No, thats probably one of the few things BW has done correctly. I'm ok with a little rng as long as it has high proc chances (70%+) but procs sitting at 20-30% are dumb. RNG can seriously **** over a spec. Just look at 2.0 carnage when they changed the slaughter proc to 30% chance. You could literally go forever without getting a proc just from simple bad luck. RNG really has no place in any rotation/spec in any MMO.

 

Cauterize had a high chance to proc, what was it 66% on MS and 33% on slash/dispatch? So long ago the days when my toon said HEY! after Merciless slash... sigh

[Cotlu-Hunlon]

Feeling so angry, helpless, frustrated and in despair after reading this. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

 

Please Bioware just hire me to make the class changes for this game. Fire all your class designers, I would work for half of what you pay any of your one devs to do the whole job.

 

The people who know what to do aren't your ****** indifferent devs, they're the people on the forums who have spent years on a class. How does a business get run in this way like you're running it. I just don't know.

[Raansu]

Cauterize had a high chance to proc, what was it 66% on MS and 33% on slash/dispatch? So long ago the days when my toon said HEY! after Merciless slash... sigh

 

Cauterize proc wasn't bad and I could tolerate that as most of the time it was reliable and would proc. What I hate is using an ability that is needed to proc something and use it 4,5,6 times and it wont proc the ability so you end up just managing around the abilities CD anyways since the proc just isn't reliable at all.

[PallyHk]

Feeling so angry, helpless, frustrated and in despair after reading this. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

 

Please Bioware just hire me to make the class changes for this game. Fire all your class designers, I would work for half of what you pay any of your one devs to do the whole job.

 

The people who know what to do aren't your ****** indifferent devs, they're the people on the forums who have spent years on a class. How does a business get run in this way like you're running it. I just don't know.

 

Agreed, a half competent modder can do beter job than this.

[Yamahara]

They really need to hold off on the changes to this class. I don't understand the need for them to do this..

[qwopicus]

This thread gave me cancer.

 

Fun fact: when you're a developer telling your customer base to L2P, maybe you should learn2dev? Imagine if apple decided to make all their American iPhones with Chinese instructions. It isn't the customer's fault for not liking your product, just because you like it.

 

WTB new developers

[WheresMyWhisky]

Just found this I now know how they came up with our rotation for 3.2.1

[PallyHk]

Just found this I now know how they came up with our rotation for 3.2.1

 

Those guys on the video could do a better job than the real team.

[Costello]

Can we get told if this is coming in and nothing anyone says will change it?

 

Can we be told if Mara/Sent are working as intended? Is it by design they are to be easy kills in PvP and not expected to get into the top 100 of the ranked leaderboard? Is it by design that they are not meant to be welcome in end game ops and flashpoints and by design to be only really meant to be running dailies?

 

Do they no longer want Maras/sents to be involved in end game? If this is the case if the combat team just say that they are looking to phase mara/sents from the game then we know where we stand. Rather than continually making posts to say the changes dont work or address the problems.

[Utnayan]

Can we get told if this is coming in and nothing anyone says will change it?

 

Can we be told if Mara/Sent are working as intended? Is it by design they are to be easy kills in PvP and not expected to get into the top 100 of the ranked leaderboard? Is it by design that they are not meant to be welcome in end game ops and flashpoints and by design to be only really meant to be running dailies?

 

Do they no longer want Maras/sents to be involved in end game? If this is the case if the combat team just say that they are looking to phase mara/sents from the game then we know where we stand. Rather than continually making posts to say the changes dont work or address the problems.

 

They don't have a clue as to how classes work because they do not play the game. The developers here are about 5 times removed from the playerbase. So I guess in this case as much as you want to blame this particular developer, the basic fact is he has no clue what he is doing, doesn't play the game, and on top of that, is in a culture where they frankly do not care. EA is looking to soak the money as long as they can, and it's evident when they offer subscribers 12X XP for 4 months to play through the largest redeeming feature of the this game (class stories).

 

EA is notorious for these types of developer hires. This poor guy got thrown in with the wolves and if you think the lack of communication to the player base is bad, you should see the internal communication issues. I wouldn't be surprised if this guy thought he was working on Agents.

[AlrikFassbauer]

and player feedback that the current Live Annihilation/Watchman Discipline is “boring,” “predictable,” and “easy to play,”

 

I personally don't quite understand why this as an "easy to play" class is not at the top of the FOTM ?

I mean - wasn't one of the reasons why people play FOTM classes that they are easy to play ?

I often read people telling oither people that Bounty Hunters had an very easy rotation - and look : PTs are at the top of the favourite FOTM classes !

 

Of course, another reason people play FOTM classes is that they are being overpowered ...

 

 

And about that DOT : Yes, even Consulars need to put their tiny baseline DOTs into rotation, no matter if they want them or not ...

 

 

 

P.S. : Making Marauders / SEntinels more "challenging to play" will most likely imply that this class will be far fewer at the top of the Leaderboards - because, as I said above, people prefer to play FOTM classes, preferrably with easy rotations ...

Edited May 8, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[AlrikFassbauer]

Those guys on the video could do a better job than the real team.

 

This isn't the Benny Hill video showing perfect kiting ?

Edited May 8, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[jauvtus]

Bored enough to write another feedback they won't care about.

Hey everyone,

 

Continuing our threads that lend insight on recent design changes, we will be sharing some of our Annihilation/Watchman design philosophies and offering perspectives from our extensive internal testing of the new Annihilation/Watchman rotation.

 

Annihilation/Watchman Rotation Design Philosophy:

 

• A Responsive and Reactive Rotation: Following our design philosophy of making the Annihilation/Watchman Discipline the most challenging and potentially rewarding Marauder/Sentinel Discipline to play and player feedback that the current Live Annihilation/Watchman Discipline is “boring,” “predictable,” and “easy to play,” we have designed the new rotation to require the use of a varying priority system, rather than a predetermined rotation that fits neatly within some set duration of time, in order to maximize damage output. Players will need to rethink how the rotation plays and respond carefully to each situation to get the most out of the new Annihilation/Watchman Discipline. This design lends itself to a visceral playstyle, which will see a successful Marauder/Sentinel reacting instinctively to each combat situation as it arises. This playstyle should appeal to players that prefer variance over predictability in their combat experiences.
   
  
• Never Underestimate Force Rend/Force Melt: From the beginning, Force Rend/Force Melt was designed to be a longer-lasting, damage-heavy DoT ability, and this has not changed with the new rotation design. Force Rend/Force Melt packs quite a prolonged punch and feeds your Rage/Focus regeneration and self healing. Making sure that it is active on any targets that will last for 15 or more seconds is essential to maximizing damage output. Due to its longer duration, it is also an easier DoT spread than Rupture/Cauterize.
   
  
• Never Overestimate Dual Saber Throw/Twin Saber Throw: Some abilities are only designed to be used situationally. For example, as an Annihilation Marauder/Watchman Sentinel, you are only intended to use Dual Saber Throw/Twin Saber Throw in multi-target situations, while its damage is boosted by Pulverize/Mind Sear, and/or when stuck at a long distance from your enemy target.

 

Cheers, all!

John

About rotation being boring and easy to play: do you know when was the rotation NOT boring? 2.10 as we endlessly repeat. It was easy enough so everyone could play it but hard to master it for max dps. And with Cauterize procs it was far from boring. Your attempts on fixing the rotation got heavy opposition instead, literally NOONE can build a rotation from these "improvements".

About Force Melt: Long duration dmg heavy dot? For melee??? Makes no sense. Dmg heavy? You just wanna nerf it. And btw NOONE likes it. Good for dotspread? Pls understand at last, WATCHMAN WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE AOE SPEC!!! The original devs (I cant believe you are the same who started) made us a single target heavy overall dps spec, who suck at aoe and switching targets. And we loved it. Changing the very core of a spec will NEVER work out.

About TST: you say it's situational but you also want it to proc the 6-piece set. That doesn't add up. Yes I know we gave you the idea of the latter, but then we also said TST should generate 2 Focus for all disciplines.

Edited May 8, 2015 by jauvtus

[Darth__Reaver]

Can mercs get a buff again???

[Raansu]

Can mercs get a buff again???

 

Sure. *Developers buff mercs.....but its actually a nerf* "Sorry guys we don't know what we are doing."

[CameoCream]

This sort of stupidity is what I re rolled, kinda makes me feel that this is their intent - destroy the class so nobody cares when it is removed.

[DarthVillain]

Have a complete solution to annihilation rotation. Force rend should be a passive, and proc off smash. Smash still spreading dots whoever is caught in the smash radius is applied force rend. Simple cuts the biggest problem right out of the rotation.