LordArtemis Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Ok, let me clarify a bit. I have been guilty of this kind of dishonorable behavior in the past in other games. Back in the day, the days of permadeath and player looting I was ruthless....of course I was much younger then. The one difference was that I would "own" my behavior. This would be an example of what I would say in this case if I were taking advantage of this situation.... "Well, I know it's underhanded, but hey, its PVP and that is how the ball bounces. If Bioware wants me to stop, patch it out and I will. Until then I am going to have my fun." Now, naturally I would be labeled as a predator, rightfully so. But at least I would admit that I KNOW this is dishonorable behavior....I simply would not care. That is what should be happening here IMO. If you take advantage of this, own it. Otherwise your just trying to justify what you likely know is bad behavior, and that is a pretty weak position to take IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 It is important to note that even on PvP servers, you don't flag until you exit the base's perimeter, it is blatantly clear that bases are intended as safe havens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leihn Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I prefer to hold others to expectations of basic human decency if to nothing else. After all, that's how it works everywhere else. I think humans are a lot more indecent than you seem to think they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undiess Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) on day 2 I spent all day on y4 just messing with pubs. had a great time. once it turned into a larger grp of imps it lost the appeal. what you're failing to see is the potential for an escalation into a larger fair battle. PvP servers should govern themselves. a large group is killing your faction? assemble a group of your own and police the situation. the real problem is that there are too many people that hate PvP on PvP servers and see negativity in being killed and not opportunity. as I go around killing questing pubs on y4 my wish is that they do fight back or assemble and they sometimes do. its fantastic when it happens. I see a group or 4 and I attack them. I don't care if I die its fun regardless. You clearly lack any understanding of this game's core issue with open world PvP: highly imbalanced factions. There is no chance for "fighting back" against the Imp horde, especially when they are camping the zone in area. Your perception as an Imp is very skewed. Yes it is great when republic fight back, it doesn't take long for overwhelming numbers to win out. All it takes is Imps filling up an instance to win. Edited December 10, 2014 by undiess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leihn Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 You clearly lack any understanding of this game's core issue with open world PvP: highly imbalanced factions. There is no chance for "fighting back" against the Imp horde, especially when they are camping the zone in area. Your perception as an Imp is very skewed. Yes it is great when republic fight back, it doesn't take long for overwhelming numbers to win out. All it takes is Imps filling up an instance to win. Not to be facetious, but this sounds just like real star wars~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Easy to avoid when your a tank that uses AoE taunt and debuff...... Not to mention those in your group that use AoE too.. That is the issue on PvE servers, people get flagged because someone stealths into an opposite factions AoE to get them flagged, where after the rest of the gank squad joins in. Makes one wonder why the heck do these players even play on a PvE server. Don't lie, AOE will not flag you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 yes because clicking "resurrect at med centre" and instantly appearing 5ft away is tough work. if you love PvP so much u shouldn't be whining about PvP. Is this what you call "PvP" Pagy? This is the type of PvP YOU like?! I THIS how you roll?! Got sick of camping new players on Tat? This is the absolute worst kind of PvP imo. I'm someone who would prefer to face another player, or groups of players, in an open world fight, where we both have a chance, rather than camp a spawn point. I love Oricon PvP. I love CZ PvP. I love Rishi PvP...what's happening on Yavin is bs...it's not PvP, it's spawn camping...which is sure as hell not "PvP" to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosonman Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 ^^ what he said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leihn Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Is this what you call "PvP" Pagy? This is the type of PvP YOU like?! I THIS how you roll?! Got sick of camping new players on Tat? This is the absolute worst kind of PvP imo. I'm someone who would prefer to face another player, or groups of players, in an open world fight, where we both have a chance, rather than camp a spawn point. I love Oricon PvP. I love CZ PvP. I love Rishi PvP...what's happening on Yavin is bs...it's not PvP, it's spawn camping...which is sure as hell not "PvP" to me. PvP is by definition any interaction between players. You can have your personal definition of what is considered 'fair,' 'honorable,' or 'true' pvp, but those are your definitions and not ones that you can enforce on others. Though we talked about it already, they should probably 'fix' yavin to be in line with how they've designed previous areas of similar function for consistency, but it seems unfair to say that pvp happening in a way you don't agree with makes it less pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 PvP is by definition any interaction between players. You can have your personal definition of what is considered 'fair,' 'honorable,' or 'true' pvp, but those are your definitions and not ones that you can enforce on others. Though we talked about it already, they should probably 'fix' yavin to be in line with how they've designed previous areas of similar function for consistency, but it seems unfair to say that pvp happening in a way you don't agree with makes it less pvp. I don't care what your personal definition of PvP is. PvP expectations in SWTOR have been shaped by 3 years of development. Yavin completely goes against everything else in this game. I don't give Bioware enough credit at times for design, so let me say that I think the way they designed leveling on PvP servers, is BRILLIANT! They allow players the ability to level and reach game cap without much fear of being griefed by other players. When it does happen, it's generally a few kills at most and then players move on. It's at level cap where PvP is designed to happen in SWTOR...daily areas, daily quests, even Ops...not in leveling. <-- I'm not suggesting they couldn't do better, I'm only talking about leveling where I think they did well. PvP, unlike PvE, has to be mutually enjoyable. If one side gets creamed, PvP ends for both. IMO, the best PvPers understand this fine balance, and they understand that healthier and better PvP comes when players know when enough is enough. Griefing/camping doesn't help PvP in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leihn Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I don't care what your personal definition of PvP is. PvP expectations in SWTOR have been shaped by 3 years of development. Yavin completely goes against everything else in this game. I don't give Bioware enough credit at times for design, so let me say that I think the way they designed leveling on PvP servers, is BRILLIANT! They allow players the ability to level and reach game cap without much fear of being griefed by other players. When it does happen, it's generally a few kills at most and then players move on. It's at level cap where PvP is designed to happen in SWTOR...daily areas, daily quests, even Ops...not in leveling. <-- I'm not suggesting they couldn't do better, I'm only talking about leveling where I think they did well. PvP, unlike PvE, has to be mutually enjoyable. If one side gets creamed, PvP ends for both. IMO, the best PvPers understand this fine balance, and they understand that healthier and better PvP comes when players know when enough is enough. Griefing/camping doesn't help PvP in any way. I guess you're the only one allowed to have a definition on what PvP is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieloader Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I guess you're the only one allowed to have a definition on what PvP is. You're not going to get anywhere with the carebears... You just have to move on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) I dont think the definition of PVP is debatable or speculative. It is clearly "Player Vs Player". That means that this kind of behavior is PVP, GSF is PVP, etc. But I also do not think the definition of "honorable" is debatable or speculative in this context either. Obviously this behavior is without merit or honor. My point would be "so what if it is?". Can a player really be faulted if they capitilize on an advantage offered by the game? Note...I support a change and believe it is needed. But I think it is wrong to say this is not PVP, and it is wrong to say it is anything but dishonorable behavior. Edited December 10, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman_snow Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'll agree that it should be a sanctuary zone, but I signed on to the Bastion for a reason: If a Sith and Jedi are walking down the street together, they don't exchange pleasantries and high fives. They try to kill each other, full stop. In Episode I, even, Darth Maul never says a word to the Jedi. He just attacks. Count Dooku tries to turn who he can, but he later tries to kill them all equally. Sidious manipulated trillions times trillions of lives into a devastating war in which he wiped out the Jedi he felt chummy and decent with (or so they thought). In none of these situations are the bad guys -really- our friends. It does bite to be questing along and get jumped. It also rules when you kill your attacker. A couple days ago, there was a gank party at the staging area on Yavin 4, and a few of us in Guild chat got sick of it. We dispatched out level 60s (myself included) and went to war with the camping imps. The other 58 to 60s jumped in. It was all out warfare for about twenty minutes, the entire landing zone a pvp Hell. In the end, we did push the Imps back. They were spending too much energy in downtime between deaths and decided it wasn't worth the increasing wait to rez each time they were killed, and they fled the staging area. They didn't camp gank the rest of the day that I know of; the next two times I visited in the later parts of the day, everything was peaceful. While that was fun and liberating the staging area was all cute and fuzzy, I still remember thinking "They really do need to zone this." I have no issue with owpvp or this being a pvp server, but this one little place, I'd agree needs a sanctuary. It's too frustrating for players who just want to do their questlines, and I have no problem with them, either - on either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I guess you're the only one allowed to have a definition on what PvP is. Not at all. Bioware's is the only one that counts...so let me ask you, iIs what is happening on Yavin good for subs or bad for subs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) No one reasonable thinks that shared spawn points shouldn't be neutral, but some people need to wake up and stop being Zimbardo's prison guards You're not going to get anywhere with the carebears... You just have to move on... hah, Nightmare Squadron talking like they know anything of real PvP. Edited December 10, 2014 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Yavin needs to be a non-pvp territory given the story. it's same bullsith like with rakghoul tunnels where two factions are meant to co operate in fighting another foe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieloader Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 hah, Nightmare Squadron talking like they know anything of real PvP. Don't like what I say, so you say something about my guild... You're like extra cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Don't like what I say, so you say something about my guild... You're like extra cool... ...are they carebears? Oh, wait, you were saying something about other players. Yes, thats ok then. Edited December 10, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieloader Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 ...are they carebears? Oh, wait, you were saying something about other players. Yes, thats ok then. Definitely not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Definitely not... I imagine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Blah blah blah Confucius said on PVP blah blah blah my feelings are blah blah blah I'ma Scur Bear blah blah blah Bad design or an oversight, needs correction. /thread Edited December 10, 2014 by Joesixxpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neothanos Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Its a mutual faction starting zone needs to be neutral or people will be jerks simply because they can. Allow duesl and thats it. We will have all ouside maps to kill eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSaynKnutt Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Blah blah blah Confucius said on PVP blah blah blah my feelings are blah blah blah I'ma Scur Bear blah blah blah Bad design or an oversight, needs correction. /thread ^ This. Regardless of what server you're on, the main spawn point for a planet, featuring imps and pubs working together (or at least pretending to), should definitely be sanctuary. This isn't like the base near the Shrine of Healing, this is like PvP in Voss-Ka. Fix it ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 all I know is that it is so much fun using force push whenever someone gets close to the ledge to use the taxi, I just throw them off just before they click to go :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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