Training Costs are a Thing of the Past

[PavSalco]

You realize that this could have easily been done prior to Tuesday and that this creates a big suspicion that this announcement was held off for 4 days in order to act as a money sink and strip players of their credits quickly prior to an announcement.

 

I and my guildmates began suspecting this as well.

 

If your customers get such kind of suspicions, this tells much about your attitude towards your own customers.

Oh, Bioware. I've been playing SWTOR over a year and I was always surprised about the comments "you're screwing your subscribers/loyal players again." I haven't experienced much form of disappointment during that time. Of course, few letdowns happened here and there, but i've never been felt "screwed". However now I know what those people meant....

[Dawginole]

Nope. Eric already gave (in my opinion) a pretty bad rationalization as to why so I wouldn't expect to hear more about it. As typical, they'll listen to the community when it's easy to make a change but when many of us voice a common issue like having spent so much already and expect some type of recourse, they will suddenly go silent. It's the typical non-followup that basically tells me they acknowledge it but don't plan to do anything about it.

 

He gave a complete non-answer. He typed two sentences. The first was a reiteration that this would globally effect all players. The second sentence was that they would not be giving refunds.

 

Those two things have nothing to do with each other. Yes, moving forward all players will be affected the same. However, over the last four days due to their (once again!) complete incompetence, all their pre-order players were effed.

[JumperPenn]

Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Hey folks,

 

Ok so I have an update on the training/re-training of abilities with the launch of 3.0. With all of the changes that hit with 3.0 to Disciplines, it is intended that there are abilities that need to be trained/re-trained. Here are some of the criteria that could cause this to happen:

If an existing ability changed, in name or functionality. This could especially affect Disciplines which used to share an overlapping name and set of abilities, such as Lethality Sniper/Operative.

We adjusted at what level you would acquire certain ranks of skills. If you are a character pre-55 you may be training skills at ranks that were previously unavailable.

In some cases we moved abilities from the Base Class to the Advanced Class or vice-versa. This technically means you could have to retrain an ability you already had, since it changed where/how you got it.

I had not realized the scope of abilities that would need to be trained or I would have been more proactive in alerting everyone to this prior to 3.0. With this in mind, the need to train/re-train abilities in 3.0 is intended and therefore we are not planning on making any changes at this time. I apologize sincerely for the inconvenience this has caused.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

-eric

First it was intended to double charge and as others had mentioned charge high prices for the new skills 56 and up. Once this was brought to your attention you wisely looked into it because you and your team didn't communicate with each other to let everyone know that there would be training costs for stuff people already had, learned and bought. It also seems no one thought that this kind of double charging would be an issue or that it was fine cause who cares right? right? Otherwise they would have brought it to your attention and/or done the right thing like not double charge people.

 

That right there is a sad thing at this point in the game you guys STILL aren't communicating about these things or thinking about them. The whole "I wasn't aware but since it is done it is retroactively part of the plan I didn't know about" shouldn't surprise me whatever the truth might be you knew and didn't think it mattered, you didn't know and your people didn't think it mattered, or they didn't know and neither did you.

 

I think this is the kind of thing that has the top dps, which is a tiny percent of the population are doing too high dps to where 'we' the game designers want, even as they buff classes, and give us all higher rated gear over the course of almost a year. So the problem of knowing what is going on with your very own product still seems to be an issue.

 

But I digress, back to this double charging for skills we already owned and paid for, so some outrage and you change your tune to remove the costs you had not realized the scope of as well as all future skills costs. That's a good thing, just sad the way it comes about and how it seems to show us there are still problems in your people's ability to communicate with eachother and us.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm glad for the change, I only re-bought skills I already owned on one of my characters during my early access because I was sick and honestly the changes to my loved characters, details came after I pre-ordered, didn't make me very happy. Nor does the very strict discipline system and utility options that aren't as advertised more choices when there are really only a couple(some cases probably one) that make any sense for your goal. So I've essentially lost my pre-order early access opportunity to rush to consume content and hit 60 but I was pretty drained from playing so much to leveling more characters during the 12xp period so that doesn't bother me. I did enjoy not having to do side missions to advance, seeing that turn off as well as being sick I wasn't that interested in spending what little time I had feeling well playing the game.

 

TLDR:

This is a good change and one that should have been done with 3.0 since it seems to be so easy to greenlight both in dev time and approval by whomever. If you missed out on this discount by hitting 60 already then congratulations on hitting 60 and getting that done because that's what you wanted to do with your early access time.

[JediMasterE]

I'm really happy about this. Thank you Bioware.

[Kadin]

He gave a complete non-answer. He typed two sentences. The first was a reiteration that this would globally effect all players. The second sentence was that they would not be giving refunds.

 

Those two things have nothing to do with each other. Yes, moving forward all players will be affected the same. However, over the last four days due to their (once again!) complete incompetence, all their pre-order players were effed.

Yeah I'm glad someone else saw it this way as well. I've been trying to figure out what 'global change' had to do with 'no refunds' and just tossed it aside. It's so discouraging how they always get so close to making a good and well thought out decision and then mess it up with something like this. 1 step forward, 1 large step back.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Kadin

[Suromir]

Gotta ask that question, any retroactive refunds since 3.0 went live?

 

Edit: I ask because I have guildies who have dropped basically all their credits to train their character this week.

 

Bonus Edit: And I am referring only to training from 56-60... not the 1-55 range.

 

were refunds given anytime anything was dropped or lowered..by ANY MMO company?

 

Did we get refunds on what we spent when they lowered the cost of removing mods from orange gear?

 

Did we get refunds when they lowered the cost and level of speeder training?

 

I don't care "who" you're asking for..the fact you're asking shows complete greediness and the typical "entitlement" attitude present in more resent generations.

 

Just because things change doesn't make you a special snowflake and deserving of any return.

 

good god...and it's even the first friggin reply. you people are unreal.

[ShatteredVision]

I spent more than half of all my credits (I'm a pvper) in 2 days with this nonsense. I chose to spend my time playing the new content through (how unreasonable), I didn't expect that I'd be penalized for it.

 

You really are the worst dev team I have ever experienced in any game (I started with Asheron's Call in '99 or so).

[Cuomo]

There not being a refund is idiotic. Making a misstep and fixing it is great. But this is the sort of thing that should have been done before SoR went live. Either you ignored feedback from your beta testers, or didn't have ones who did a good job identifying and expressing the concerns the player base as a whole would have. Either way, combine this with the string of bugs, and you are giving your most loyal customers the feeling that they paid, both in game and in real life, to be your beta testers. Just dumb costumer service policy to screw over the people most loyal to you.

[Gigabolt]

So just to break it down,

 

The customers that literally paid to beta test this buggy expansion are now being punished for giving you money too soon!?!?!?

 

Its really amazing, the core of this game is so solid, how on earth you can screw up so consistently is just mid blowing.

[ndursinger]

 

Just because things change doesn't make you a special snowflake and deserving of any return..

 

Well that just stinks.. being a snowflake was on my "to do" list

 

I guess I'll just have to be a sock monkey:p

[RandyL]

I don't care "who" you're asking for..the fact you're asking shows complete greediness and the typical "entitlement" attitude present in more resent generations.

 

You can show ten people a blue sky and one of them will argue that it's not blue, it's actually red. You're that guy that sees red.

 

Anyway, since you're playing the generational card, the "older" generations should know "no refunds" would have never passed as an acceptable answer back in the day. Is this really that difficult to understand?

[Fractal_Eye]

were refunds given anytime anything was dropped or lowered..by ANY MMO company?

 

Did we get refunds on what we spent when they lowered the cost of removing mods from orange gear?

 

Did we get refunds when they lowered the cost and level of speeder training?

 

I don't care "who" you're asking for..the fact you're asking shows complete greediness and the typical "entitlement" attitude present in more resent generations.

 

Just because things change doesn't make you a special snowflake and deserving of any return.

 

good god...and it's even the first friggin reply. you people are unreal.

 

W o w... All he did was reasonably ask a question that was obviously (by evidence of the responses in this thread alone) on the minds of many people, and you come in and proceed to be a holier-than-thou jerk?

 

Careful, buddy. That high horse might just buck you off one of these days and trample you.

[ShatteredVision]

were refunds given anytime anything was dropped or lowered..by ANY MMO company?

 

Did we get refunds on what we spent when they lowered the cost of removing mods from orange gear?

 

Did we get refunds when they lowered the cost and level of speeder training?

 

I don't care "who" you're asking for..the fact you're asking shows complete greediness and the typical "entitlement" attitude present in more resent generations.

 

Just because things change doesn't make you a special snowflake and deserving of any return.

 

good god...and it's even the first friggin reply. you people are unreal.

 

Let me guess. You have 20 toons, all below level 30. ****. No one is trying to be special, they're genuinely furious because this isn't fair. Go spread your denial somewhere else.

[Cuomo]

were refunds given anytime anything was dropped or lowered..by ANY MMO company?

 

Did we get refunds on what we spent when they lowered the cost of removing mods from orange gear?

 

Did we get refunds when they lowered the cost and level of speeder training?

 

I don't care "who" you're asking for..the fact you're asking shows complete greediness and the typical "entitlement" attitude present in more resent generations.

 

Just because things change doesn't make you a special snowflake and deserving of any return.

 

good god...and it's even the first friggin reply. you people are unreal.

 

It's not entitlement to pay for something once, then complain when forced to pay for it a second time, and not be satisfied by other people not being cheated the same way you were. If you are buying something and someone runs your credit card twice; them saying they won't make that mistake with the next customer isn't something you should be mollified by. You expect them to make it right with you.

[TravelersWay]

He gave a complete non-answer. He typed two sentences. The first was a reiteration that this would globally effect all players. The second sentence was that they would not be giving refunds.

 

Those two things have nothing to do with each other. Yes, moving forward all players will be affected the same. However, over the last four days due to their (once again!) complete incompetence, all their pre-order players were effed.

It's not entitlement to pay for something once, then complain when forced to pay for it a second time, and not be satisfied by other people not being cheated the same way you were. If you are buying something and someone runs your credit card twice; them saying they won't make that mistake with the next customer isn't something you should be mollified by. You expect them to make it right with you.

 

I'm a pre-order player and I wasn't effed. Pre-order has nothing to do with the matter - Disciplines is a global system that went live and affected all players. However, there have been many players such as myself that didn't go blindly into something as soon as we logged into our first characters because there was obviously something wrong with the implementation of the skills, and therefore weren't going to spend the vast amounts of creds until some explanation was forthcoming.

Edited December 6, 2014 by TravelersWay

[PavSalco]

I don't care "who" you're asking for..the fact you're asking shows complete greediness and the typical "entitlement" attitude present in more resent generations.

said an elitist grampa who has never had any expectations in his life for the product he paid.

Edited December 6, 2014 by PavSalco

[Omarzon]

Hey folks,

 

Let’s talk a bit about training costs for your characters abilities. One thing has become clear from the player feedback in not only this thread, but since launch: players do not like training costs. It is a situation where every level you will see your hard earned credits go to a holographic Hutt doctor in order to make yourself a bit stronger. We have been talking about this topic internally for quite some time and when you add player feedback to the mix one thing becomes clear… We should make training costs a thing of the past.

 

Since launch, you have spent millions of credits training skills across your characters. As of our maintenance next week all ability training costs will be completely removed from the game, forever!

 

What does this mean for you? This means that starting next week, instead of spending your credits on training skills, you can now spend them on literally, anything else you want. Note that this only affects ability training, you will still need to spend credits to training schematics for Crew Skills, etc.

 

Thank you again for your feedback.

 

-eric

 

Simply outrageous

 

a handful of children cry and give everything for free, what's next? Free mounts? Free equipment?

we've been paying skill for the last 2-3 years, making dailies, FPs, WZs, Farming, and all this time lost for nothing?

more than 460 levels on chars (sum of all ) and now! ARE FREE!!!

 

It's no a matter of money, its virtual it's a matter of time.

 

Shamefull and outrageous

 

Omarzon

[Kadin]

were refunds given anytime anything was dropped or lowered..by ANY MMO company?

 

Did we get refunds on what we spent when they lowered the cost of removing mods from orange gear?

 

Did we get refunds when they lowered the cost and level of speeder training?

 

I don't care "who" you're asking for..the fact you're asking shows complete greediness and the typical "entitlement" attitude present in more resent generations.

 

Just because things change doesn't make you a special snowflake and deserving of any return.

 

good god...and it's even the first friggin reply. you people are unreal.

And your response is just about as unreal. The fact that you can't comprehend where the majority of us are coming from either means you simply lack the fundamental ability to read and understand what we're saying or you're jumping on the defense train without any understanding of why you're doing it other than to put the blame on the community. I'm going with the latter.

 

This is a typical straw man response you gave btw, good job. Completely missed the point by listing things not in any way related but used to (try) and backup your erroneous comments.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Kadin

[Cuomo]

I'm a pre-order player and I wasn't effed. Pre-order has nothing to do with the matter - Disciplines is a global system that went live and affected all players. However, there have been many players such as myself that didn't go blindly into something as soon as we logged into our first characters because there was obviously something wrong with the implementation of the skills, and therefore weren't going to spend the vast amounts of creds until some explanation was forthcoming.

 

Your assumption people complaining did something blindly is is made in ignorance. Plenty of people got an explanation before spending credits, it said this:

 

With this in mind, the need to train/re-train abilities in 3.0 is intended and therefore we are not planning on making any changes at this time.

[Dokar]

Simply outrageous

 

a handful of children cry and give everything for free, what's next? Free mounts? Free equipment?

we've been paying skill for the last 2-3 years, making dailies, FPs, WZs, Farming, and all this time lost for nothing?

more than 460 levels on chars (sum of all ) and now! ARE FREE!!!

 

It's no a matter of money, its virtual it's a matter of time.

 

Shamefull and outrageous

 

Omarzon

 

They have already given us a free speeder and free adaptive armor.

[Dokar]

And your response is just about as unreal. The fact that you can't comprehend where a very large majority of us are coming from either means you simply lack the fundamental ability to read and understand what we're saying or you're jumping on the defense train without any understanding of why you're doing it other than to put the blame on the community. I'm going with the latter.

 

This is a typical straw man response you gave btw, good job. Completely missed the point by listing things not in any way related but used to (try) and backup your erroneous comments.

 

You have no idea if you are a majority much less a large majority.

[ndursinger]

Simply outrageous

 

a handful of children cry and give everything for free, what's next? Free mounts? Free equipment?

we've been paying skill for the last 2-3 years, making dailies, FPs, WZs, Farming, and all this time lost for nothing?

more than 460 levels on chars (sum of all ) and now! ARE FREE!!!

 

It's no a matter of money, its virtual it's a matter of time.

 

Shamefull and outrageous

 

Omarzon

 

Its not like we don't feel the pain from the past but I for one will be happy about not being charged in the future:D

 

in the meantime...here ya go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_vhNWsgcsM

[Kadin]

You have no idea if you are a majority much less a large majority.

Actually I do based on the responses that I'm reading here. As to the majority versus large majority, yeah that was a stupid way to write it out on my part.

[Clarian]

Nice! I only retrained one of my characters after 3.0 hit, hoping something like this would happen, so I managed to avoid nearly all of that.

[TravelersWay]

Your assumption people complaining did something blindly is is made in ignorance. Plenty of people got an explanation before spending credits, it said this:

 

And reading the actual explanation of how it happened should have made anyone question the validity of that explanation, especially in light of the evidence that the system was not equal between the mirrored classes.