Training Costs are a Thing of the Past

[Kirazy]

Yet didn't spend millions of credits getting your characters leveled during 12xXP? You sure are grateful aren't you (so wish there was a sarcasm font), and I doubt it took you 2 million credits to retrain skills. Its not that much. Maybe 50k per character.

 

Easy 200k retraining skills on my Commandos. Skills I had already paid for, even. Over 600k at level 60 ALONE. Comparable figures at 57, 58 and 59. This is ONE character.

 

Repeat that on 9 others that I retrained abilities on to get ready to take them to 60, and on a few characters I have partially leveled towards 60.

 

The costs are NOT "maybe 50k per character".

[Yeebo]

All I can say is thank goodness. Screw the money I've blown on training the last few days/ since launch, I don't care. This is a great change.

[LordArtemis]

My guess would be refunds might require a roll back...and if that is the case....a big if mind you...i expect quite a few more folks would be upset about losing their progress and credits they have gained up to today.

 

I think folks can find solutions themselves to refund the credits they spent if they put their minds to it. In the mean time, it is advisable, obviously, to avoid spending any credits on further training until after maintenance next tuesday.

 

Again, I am one of the ones that lost credits. Despite this I am VERY happy they did this and will eat the credits I have spent for the greater good of the game. In the long run this change will benefit all of us IMO.

 

You want to create a new alt and level it up? From that day forward you will no longer be saddled by training costs.

 

I think this is a BIG win that will pay off for some in the short term, almost everyone in the long term.

[Icestar]

Well that is more then a million credits I will not get back since this tuesday.

 

Guess it is a good thing for the rest of my characters then

Edited December 5, 2014 by Icestar

[LordArtemis]

I expect you come out with some kind of additional reward (anything, like a unique toy or pvp terminal for strongholds, or additional days of subscription, anything will be good). Just acknowledge that your service during Early Access wasn't great and your customers deserve a fair deal. A token of appreciation for your loyal customers that experienced a great deal of hardship while playing in Early Access.

 

Blizzard gave players 5 days of additional subscription for poor Early Access.

 

It's a great thing that the training skills are going to be free. It will help new players or those who don't make money. I bet Bioware noticed in their statistics that lots of players didn't learn skills in 3.0 because they simply hadn't enough credits.

 

BUT

 

(I apologize for harsh words) You screw your loyal customers over and over again. Cartel Packs missing decorations that turned out to be moved to future packs. Bugs that are not addressed (e.g. the infinite loading screen wasn't fixed for months) and now Early Access that turns out to be Screw You Access.

 

Early Access is supposed to be a reward for people that support this game the most. By spending money without hesitation we want to enjoy the story earlier and receive some kind of bonus, not being a lab rats that play on the worse terms than the players that are going to play it later. That's not a deal that we wanted to get. This is not how customers should be treated.

 

Early Acess instead of being a reward, it's just screwing people all over the place.

 

1. The final mission is bugged. The most important mission is barely doable. I've done it and I didn't complain about it...but now too many things are WRONG, so I won't turn a blind eye to Revan bug.

 

2. Enormous number of credits wasted for while others get it for free next week.

It would be okay if it was the other way around, so players from Early Access would get it for free, but no. We're lab rats, mere testers.

 

3. Decorations disappearing after picking them up and missing from the list. I'm an active housing player and I can't redecorate my houses at this moment. I want my decorations back in the same number as they were.

 

Do you have any idea how many hours I've spent to get where I am in terms of credits? I'm not a big GTN player. I don't craft things that are worth millions. For me it's NOT a matter of a few seconds to make good credits. I spent a lot of time doing dailies and operations to get that number. So spending 300/500/700k on the training skills is still a great lost because it will take a while to recover them back. So much for being an Early Access player. Thanks.

 

 

 

+1

 

I did suggest, in my list of solutions for how they could move forward that perhaps they could give out 7 days extra sub to folks effected by this after early access ends.

[Code_Airwolf]

Hey folks,

 

Let’s talk a bit about training costs for your characters abilities. One thing has become clear from the player feedback in not only this thread, but since launch: players do not like training costs. It is a situation where every level you will see your hard earned credits go to a holographic Hutt doctor in order to make yourself a bit stronger. We have been talking about this topic internally for quite some time and when you add player feedback to the mix one thing becomes clear… We should make training costs a thing of the past.

 

Since launch, you have spent millions of credits training skills across your characters. As of our maintenance next week all ability training costs will be completely removed from the game, forever!

 

What does this mean for you? This means that starting next week, instead of spending your credits on training skills, you can now spend them on literally, anything else you want. Note that this only affects ability training, you will still need to spend credits to training schematics for Crew Skills, etc.

 

Thank you again for your feedback.

 

-eric

 

 

Thank you, Eric & Team!

 

Thank you, as well, to the players for giving such united feedback on this front.

[Nmyownworld]

I knew the question would be asked regarding refunds, but honestly I must say I'm thoroughly impressed to see that community clamor has actually effected change to the game in such a fundamental and sweeping way. You have my thanks, devs.

I agree. The situation with paying to re-train abilities was an annoyance to me. The elimination of all training costs is a pleasant surprise. If the ability training cost credit sink is being moved to somewhere else, please let us know now.

[Reno_Tarshil]

You're really not in a position to know anything at all about if there will or won't be one.

 

Except Eric already said they arn't going to giving Refunds. That's all there is to it.

 

Except that I can buy credits with real money, soooo it is real money.

 

You cannot buy real life goods with Credits so it's not real money.

[Max_Killjoy]

Hey folks,

 

Let’s talk a bit about training costs for your characters abilities. One thing has become clear from the player feedback in not only this thread, but since launch: players do not like training costs. It is a situation where every level you will see your hard earned credits go to a holographic Hutt doctor in order to make yourself a bit stronger. We have been talking about this topic internally for quite some time and when you add player feedback to the mix one thing becomes clear… We should make training costs a thing of the past.

 

Since launch, you have spent millions of credits training skills across your characters. As of our maintenance next week all ability training costs will be completely removed from the game, forever!

 

What does this mean for you? This means that starting next week, instead of spending your credits on training skills, you can now spend them on literally, anything else you want. Note that this only affects ability training, you will still need to spend credits to training schematics for Crew Skills, etc.

 

Thank you again for your feedback.

 

-eric

 

Well that is a very pleasant surprise. Thank you.

 

I'm very satisfied with this change in direction, and at least personally I'm not so concerned about the credits I've spent the last few days -- it's not the end of the world, and Oricon, CZ, etc, will give me back those credits fast enough.

 

This is one of the few instances I can think of in which a video game company so openly changed direction on an issue due to player feedback.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[Xytalyst]

The doubters can sucks it...

I leveled a sage and a Sorc from 55-60 and had to pay about 1,000,000 Credits Per character.

That is no joke or over-estimation. That is real. It's not just a drop in the bucket, It was my whole damn bucket. Yes we need a refund. First you punish the players who didn't order on time by taking way top skills and nerfing the hell out of their companions with no access to level 60 for a week, then you punish the people who did pre-order on time by making ONLY them pay the most outrageous training costs ever. Stop punishing your players, Bioware.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Xytalyst

[ped_i]

so what about the 2-3 mil that we spent on our toons already ? refund ?

[Beldamon]

The actual change is a positive one, and a good step in the right direction. I don't want to detract from that point, however....

 

The lack of compensation, not only for people who have already spent tons of credits already training, but also have effectively pre-ordered for the dubious privilege of essentially beta testing a very buggy experience is low. It sends a very strong message -- anyone who pre-orders for early access is paying to be used.

 

Maybe a bit over-dramatically stated, but its how I feel. It is very poor customer service.

 

I realize reimbursement would be almost impossible, but considering this is the same team that came up the the rather stellar 12x xp, it would not be hard for you to come up with a means of compensation.

 

I've enjoyed the story of SoR, and encouraged on that front with regards to what might come in the future.

 

I've been continuously subbed now since launch, and for the first time I'm seriously considering dropping it. It's not the game itself, and I am pretty easy-going about bugs, but one thing I won't put up with is feeling like I'm being taken for granted.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Beldamon

[Dawginole]

Fair question azudelphi! Since the change we are making is a global one, affecting all players and skills, we felt this was a better approach to the overall cost to players. As a result, we will not be providing refunds for the cost of training.

 

Hope that clarifies our thoughts on the situation.

 

-eric

 

 

You realize that this could have easily been done prior to Tuesday and that this creates a big suspicion that this announcement was held off for 4 days in order to act as a money sink and strip players of their credits quickly prior to an announcement.

 

The fact that many of us were completely unaware of your internal discussions and dumped hundreds of thousands into player skills we had already purchased when you knew this announcement was coming is highly unethical.

 

And then just to say, "Nope sorry, your time spent running dailies and your wasted credits aren't really important to us." Nice. Thanks. Hope you enjoy my expansion money.

[Kadin]

so what about the 2-3 mil that we spent on our toons already ? refund ?

Nope. Eric already gave (in my opinion) a pretty bad rationalization as to why so I wouldn't expect to hear more about it. As typical, they'll listen to the community when it's easy to make a change but when many of us voice a common issue like having spent so much already and expect some type of recourse, they will suddenly go silent. It's the typical non-followup that basically tells me they acknowledge it but don't plan to do anything about it.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Kadin

[ErnieVega]

Kinda feel burnt as a returning player. I came back for this expansion after a 6 month break and only had about 2 million credits between all of my toons... spent more than half of that already on training. Its nice that i wont have to do it for my other toons, Im so glad i havent logged in on some of them yet to do that stuff... but for the few that I did do it on it really sucks.

 

this is a great change for the game overall, but the timing was poor.

[Master-DRILLBIT]

...I a little bit of wee came out... i got so excited <3

Never thought i would say this... but... "Thank you BioWare"

[LordArtemis]

I am not trying to criticize anyone here, but I highly doubt this announcement was held back on purpose to allow the prior mechanic to stand as a credit sink.

 

I think it is more likely they were talking about this for a while, our conversation in the forums brought it to a head, and perhaps EM returned to the devs and said "hey, these guys are pretty upset over this. Maybe now is the time to implement the zero cost training we have been talking about for a while".

 

After some discussion they probably decided to make it a go.

 

Naturally that is just pure speculation, but I think we owe a big thanks to EM for bringing this matter to the devs attention...I believe we would not have seen zero cost training any time soon had he not mentioned it, and brought attention to the issue.

 

Perhaps we will see some kind of compensation offered. It would be nice IMO. I have suggested a few extra sub days for early access folks.

 

But for me personally, I am just happy this change was made. I know that I will see a return from the change 10 fold over what I spent. It may take some time, but my money will come back to me and then some.

Edited December 5, 2014 by LordArtemis

[TrikoKenree]

Hey folks,

 

Let’s talk a bit about training costs for your characters abilities. One thing has become clear from the player feedback in not only this thread, but since launch: players do not like training costs. It is a situation where every level you will see your hard earned credits go to a holographic Hutt doctor in order to make yourself a bit stronger. We have been talking about this topic internally for quite some time and when you add player feedback to the mix one thing becomes clear… We should make training costs a thing of the past.

 

Since launch, you have spent millions of credits training skills across your characters. As of our maintenance next week all ability training costs will be completely removed from the game, forever!

 

What does this mean for you? This means that starting next week, instead of spending your credits on training skills, you can now spend them on literally, anything else you want. Note that this only affects ability training, you will still need to spend credits to training schematics for Crew Skills, etc.

 

Thank you again for your feedback.

 

-eric

 

OH I so happy then that I pre-ordered the expansion, started on Tuesday trough all the bugs that you have sold me. Time that I've spend with Revan will be always close to my heart as well as changing instances trying to find working tree. Then spend 2mil to train my toons (thank God I managed to do only two, actually thank bugs). And now you telling me that F2P and Preferred will have everything for free when expansion kick in for them and of course bugs free cause we beta tested it during Early Access, right?

Thank you very much, as a sub I'm really touched that you decided to f***** me again.

[Cernow]

Good move. However, I think Bioware should have had the foresight to take this step right at the launch of 3.0. Player feedback from the 12x xp period should have been clear, that players don't like the training costs, especially if you are planning to totally redesign the entire system and forcibly respec everyone.

 

To spend several weeks without training costs and then reintroduce them in 3.0 was a mistake, compounded by charging players for previously trained skills and ramping up the cost of level 60 training to silly levels.

 

So I applaud this move, but why does it always seem to require a shot in the foot to make Bioware do what they should have done all along?

[ShatteredVision]

I love that the millions of credits I've had to spend since 3.0 are now a complete waste, I'll never get back. I didn't even level fast. Nice job, Eaware, as usual. What a fking joke.

[Koichi]

We just need to get on SWTOR, in game, and tell our guilds and friends. Maybe mention it in general chat like I've been doing on the Ebon Hawk Server.

[Code_Airwolf]

I can't help but wonder how many demanding refunds now are the same ones who were saying they have plenty of credits, stop complaining, and it's sooooo easy to just do dailies for it.

 

Go forward it's completely free, FOREVER. Let's not look a gift horse (and correct solution) in the mouth.

 

And just do some dailies.

 

My main is spent loaning credits to all our Alts through 12XP and the start of this expansion. But I know go forward all the rest of our Alts will be free. Plus, we GOT the 12XP for pre-ordering. This was the correct thing to do, and I'm grateful for it.

 

Thanks again!

Edited December 5, 2014 by Code_Airwolf

[risendark]

Do you think you morons might have had this epiphany before 3.0 went live and thousands of players like myself spent millions of credits leveling from 55 to 60? I wish I hadn't pre ordered the expansion now. I feel like the people who did are the ones getting screwed. Totally not worth it for 7 days of early access. I demand you consider refunding the credits spent on abilities since 3.0 went live. I've been a sub since launch, but it's crap like this that seriously makes me consider canceling.

[Code_Airwolf]

I am not trying to criticize anyone here, but I highly doubt this announcement was held back on purpose to allow the prior mechanic to stand as a credit sink.

 

I think it is more likely they were talking about this for a while, our conversation in the forums brought it to a head, and perhaps EM returned to the devs and said "hey, these guys are pretty upset over this. Maybe now is the time to implement the zero cost training we have been talking about for a while".

 

After some discussion they probably decided to make it a go.

 

Naturally that is just pure speculation, but I think we owe a big thanks to EM for bringing this matter to the devs attention...I believe we would not have seen zero cost training any time soon had he not mentioned it, and brought attention to the issue.

 

Perhaps we will see some kind of compensation offered. It would be nice IMO. I have suggested a few extra sub days for early access folks.

 

But for me personally, I am just happy this change was made. I know that I will see a return from the change 10 fold over what I spent. It may take some time, but my money will come back to me and then some.

 

Agreed! (as usual it would appear)

 

+1000

[JoeeyyMagzz]

You did this because I cancelled my account the other night, didn't you? You sly devils!

 

While I feel really bad for the players that didn't wait until this happened before training all of their class abilities, I just want to point out that I called this in another thread. There is no possible way they can refund everyone their credits... that's just impossible.

 

I will continue to give this game a fair shake as a f2p, but it will take a lot more than this to get me to subscribe again. I will say that this is a HUGE step in the right direction, though. Not just because you're saving us a measly 500k/toon average on training, but because you guys listened to the player base. Thank you very much.

 

Also, Eric Musco, I wanted to make clear that nothing I said in that other thread was aimed at you or the rest of the community team... You have been doing a spot on job for as long as I can remember with this game, and that goes back to your "little" fansite before you got picked up by Bioware.