Training Costs are a Thing of the Past

[BAPACop]

Run some dailies.

What about lower level characters who don't have access to dailies? What should they do?

[TUXs]

Hey folks,

 

Since launch, you have spent millions of credits training skills across your characters. As of our maintenance next week all ability training costs will be completely removed from the game, forever!

 

-eric

I know I'm a bit late...but...GREAT MOVE Eric!!! Thank you for this. It was an unneeded credit sink and I commend you guys on removing it.

[Propecius]

Its not hard to understand how this is a slap in the face to the most dedicated players. Those are the players that pre-paid and leveled to 60 first. All of these people paid 5-700k per character to get their new skills and then 2 days later they announce free training.

 

So in the end the dedicated players get screwed and the casual players dont.

 

The way I see it, stuff costs different prices at different times. See Black Friday and After Christmas Sales for two seasonal examples. Or my go-to example of Action Comics #1. If you bought it for the cover price when it was released (and kept it in mint condition), congratulations! You won at life. But you can't expect to buy it at the cover price today, because it is an extremely rare collector's item. (One sold in August for $3.2 million.)

 

Another way to look at it is: it's a game. Or rather a mini-game outside of the game. Those people who held off training during the first week of early access took a chance, and it paid off in credits. Those who wanted to play rather than wait took a chance, and it paid off in getting to level 60 before those who waited. The way this particular mini-game turned out, it wasn't possible to get both rewards.

 

If you're not happy with the choice you made, you can't always go back. Same as with choosing your advanced class. Or buying something on the GTN. Or making a bad move in chess. Once you remove your hand from the piece, the move is over. You deal with the ramifications.

[Darevsool]

Actually, it is pretty hard to understand. I would classify myself as one of the game's most dedicated players. Been here non-stop since about midway through game test. Pre-ordered each expac. I play at least a few days every week that I'm not traveling for business.

 

I do not feel slapped in the face. Heck, I even trained 58-60 after I learned they were removing the training fees on Tuesday.

 

I didn't get slapped in the face. I didn't get screwed. I got to play the expac early, and as designed, except for one quest that didn't work. Overall, heck of a good release.

 

Totally agree with you about this.

Been here since before day 1, played more than I really care to admit.

I'm very happy about the upcoming changes and not annoyed at all that I paid for ONE of my toons new skills from 56-60.

I have 18 more 55's to level and this will save me a TON of credits.

I'm VERY happy with the decision.

[Deewe]

Where did I say bonuses? Besides, I've made plenty of suggestions to improve the game. And way back when the game was very rough around the edges, I complained, too. I simply temper my expectations with reason.

 

Perpetual complainers are at their happiest when they are complaining. I just want them to be happy.

Was teasing you and guess you bite

We both know better and want the game to be improved.

 

BTW been crunching the data here (reference). And noticed a couple of things.

 

First WoW gamers want something new> The spikes in SWTOR and GW2 at launch are quite impressive, but we can see players leave as fast as they come. Seems to me players population settles roundly 6 month after launch.

 

Then players still love WoW. Even if it lost 10% last week the spike of the last update is just wow!

Haven't been playing this for years and I'm really considering returning and subscribing my wife too

 

All in all I see SWTOR as 2nd MMO around GW2 and it could be made on par with WoW provided it be polished and the game design is nice. Two key elements that are missing now.

[Daxy]

Swtor is teetering on derp catering syndrome

When the focus is appeasing the lowest common derpinators then it is almost a lost cause

 

Peeps clamoring for perma 12exp, getting rid of "credit checks" (if you can't afford it then maybe one needs to buffer one's purse before continuing progression), etc. are moving the game to a direction to which it wasn't designed

 

It feels as though new toons will soon be able to start at level 60 with maxed crew skills if we keep heading down this path of removing all checks and flooding the endgame with peeps who aren't ready and then ask for bioware to essentially change the game for them

[BAPACop]

The way I see it, stuff costs different prices at different times.

Your analogy is a bizarre choice for a couple reasons, but mostly since we're talking about something that cost a price six days ago and still costs this price, and you're talking about something that cost a price over 75 years ago. The second reason is that if you Google "price adjustment" you'll see just how many companies the exact thing you are saying is so ridiculous. You can argue all you want about whether or not they should in the first place, but it's not an unexpected or even unusual concept.

are moving the game to a direction to which it wasn't designed

What criteria are you using for "designed"? If it's the game as originally released, then that didn't go past Level 50 so should we remove that content because it wasn't as designed? If you're using a later point for some reason, I'm interested to see the reasoning why some recent decisions are "designed" and some are not.

Edited December 8, 2014 by BAPACop

[Deewe]

Actually, it is pretty hard to understand. I would classify myself as one of the game's most dedicated players. Been here non-stop since about midway through game test. Pre-ordered each expac. I play at least a few days every week that I'm not traveling for business.

 

I do not feel slapped in the face. Heck, I even trained 58-60 after I learned they were removing the training fees on Tuesday.

 

I didn't get slapped in the face. I didn't get screwed. I got to play the expac early, and as designed, except for one quest that didn't work. Overall, heck of a good release.

Well, it lacked some polish.

They should have ironed out the major bugs before launch and the training cost at 55 is a major mistake design wise if it is intended. Which I don't think so as you can't explain why mirror classes don't pay as much.

 

Then for a business stance you can't ask some players to pay more than others to be able to play their classes as like others. It makes no sense at all.

 

They did some damage control, removing the training cost, but it was a haste move. Not that well communicated and not that well implemented either. You don't send your peon (sorry Eric) to sort your mess. The producer should have stepped in. Guess he knows better.

 

Finally I don't take it as a slap in the face. Am I happy with that? Not really but I don't care. I know BioWare (sorry devs) sucks at delivering polished content and well laid design so my expectations are very low. But then PR wise it's really bad to come to that because they are leaving players with a bad taste in their mouth. And don't forget credits aren't that easy to come for all players.

 

I am still surprised to see how many of my guild mates are broke.

[xobobox]

So my early access is actually a penalty? Got it, don't level characters. AWESOME! thanks for the early access penalty.

[anonnn]

Fair question azudelphi! Since the change we are making is a global one, affecting all players and skills, we felt this was a better approach to the overall cost to players. As a result, we will not be providing refunds for the cost of training.

 

Hope that clarifies our thoughts on the situation.

 

-eric

 

On the other hand, IF you jump in quick and survey all characters and what skills they currently have, it shouldn't be that difficult to go ahead and compute what each character had to have spent on skills during the last week... and send each character a lump-of-credits refund in their mailbox.

 

Please?

[Daxy]

Your analogy is a bizarre choice for a couple reasons, but mostly since we're talking about something that cost a price six days ago and still costs this price, and you're talking about something that cost a price over 75 years ago. The second reason is that if you Google "price adjustment" you'll see just how many companies the exact thing you are saying is so ridiculous. You can argue all you want about whether or not they should in the first place, but it's not an unexpected or even unusual concept.

 

What criteria are you using for "designed"? If it's the game as originally released, then that didn't go past Level 50 so should we remove that content because it wasn't as designed? If you're using a later point for some reason, I'm interested to see the reasoning why some recent decisions are "designed" and some are not.

 

The "designed" part is the standard start at level 1 and gain power as you advance; the game wasn't set up to try some avant garde new mmo non linear character progression- which might be nice- but I don't see it happening here

[BAPACop]

The "designed" part is the standard start at level 1 and gain power as you advance; the game wasn't set up to try some avant garde new mmo non linear character progression- which might be nice- but I don't see it happening here

I don't see that happening here either. Characters still start at level 1 and gain power as they advance. That has not changed and I haven't seen any suggestions being made here that would make that change either directly or indirectly.

Edited December 8, 2014 by BAPACop

[Gidrea]

When will this be implemented?

[chosonman]

Swtor is teetering on derp catering syndrome

When the focus is appeasing the lowest common derpinators then it is almost a lost cause

 

Peeps clamoring for perma 12exp, getting rid of "credit checks" (if you can't afford it then maybe one needs to buffer one's purse before continuing progression), etc. are moving the game to a direction to which it wasn't designed

 

It feels as though new toons will soon be able to start at level 60 with maxed crew skills if we keep heading down this path of removing all checks and flooding the endgame with peeps who aren't ready and then ask for bioware to essentially change the game for them

 

This is exactly how I'm feeling right now. BTW isn't this exactly how SWG started? The devs started reading the forum thread and started making drastic changed based on the feedback of a bunch of whiners (squeaky wheel?) and thus NGE was born. I remember this vividly like it was yesterday.

Edited December 8, 2014 by chosonman

[tdmaha]

This is sooooo not fair! I demand a refund on all 15 toons that have spent money on training since day one. I Also demand compensation for the pain and suffering you have caused because I had to pay for skills.

 

So I think I'm going to file a lawsuit , create a white house petition , email CEO, cancel my sub, lay in the street until my demands are met...WHOS WITH ME!!!!

 

On a serious note I'm fine with paying for skills, fine we get them for free now but I think it's ridiculous to think you are entitled to a refund.

[BAPACop]

This is sooooo not fair! I demand a refund on all 15 toons that have spent money on training since day one.

I'm sure it must feel good to construct a nice strawman argument to tear down, but could you perhaps do it somewhere else?

Edited December 8, 2014 by CommunityDroidEU
Calling out

[Ridickilis]

When will this be implemented?

 

The opening post said "next week". It was posted on Friday December 5th. If I were to guess, and seeing maintenance day is usually Tuesdays, I'd say after maintenance tomorrow if my life depended on an accurate guess.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Ridickilis

[Sorwen]

Too bad I didn't see this before spending over 288K on skills last night(I would have liked to have kept that kidney). Still thanks for changing it.

 

Edit: This wasn't a sticky why?

Edited December 8, 2014 by Sorwen

[LordArtemis]

I believe you can expect the change after the patch on tuesday.

[Rawbee]

I just read that the abilities will not use credits from now on. Then suddenly all I read was negative talk on the abilities cost.

So be clear, we do not pay to upgrade abilities anymore?

[LordArtemis]

Up to date list for the folks that desire some kind of refund or recognition for having to pay for skills prior to the removal of the costs. Couldn't find any new suggestions.

 

I would like to note that I do not explicitly support any of the suggested recompense, nor am I seeking it, though I would obviously welcome whatever Bioware decides.

 

I am personally satisfied with the decision to make all ability training free. That is more than enough for me.

 

This is what I have seen so far.

 

1) Full refund of all ability training that has been purchased since the start of Early Access (Dec 2nd)

2) 5 days of subscription time

3) 7 days of subscription time

4) One time stipend of 200CC

5) One time stipend of 500CC

6) A special mount or weapon

7) Return of 12XP, even if just for early access

8) Free legacy unlocks for a short period

9) Free legacy unlock for Field Respecialization

10) Reduction of mod extraction costs

11) Reduction of "death tax" in story mode flashpoints and operations

12) Addition of 3 more tabs to Legacy Storage, paid or unpaid

14) Additional speeder speed tier of 120%

15) Free Priority Transport terminal for Strongholds

16) A one time stipend of credits..50-70k for characters below 56, 500-600k for characters at 60

17) 50k per character awarded to all early access players

18) 24X hyperpack

 

If I have missed any, or need to add any new suggestions let me know. I will expand the list and repost it when needed.

[LordArtemis]

I just read that the abilities will not use credits from now on. Then suddenly all I read was negative talk on the abilities cost.

So be clear, we do not pay to upgrade abilities anymore?

 

Correct. After tuesday's maintenance, if I am not mistaken, all ability training will be free from that point forward.

 

Crew skills and the like will still cost credits. Only our purchased abilities as we level will be free.

[DarthTHC]

Lord Artemis, I humbly submit another suggestion for consideration:

 

A date with Jennifer Lawrence.

 

Thank you.

[LordArtemis]

Lord Artemis, I humbly submit another suggestion for consideration:

 

A date with Jennifer Lawrence.

 

Thank you.

 

LOL.

 

I think many of us would enjoy that perk.

 

Heck, I would even be happy to just spend an hour talking to her. She seems like she would be an interesting person to spend time with.

[DarthTHC]

LOL.

 

I think many of us would enjoy that perk.

 

Heck, I would even be happy to just spend an hour talking to her. She seems like she would be an interesting person to spend time with.

 

I agree. She's a fascinating person.

 

But don't LOL at me. If we're here in this thread asking for crazy, stupid $#!+ throwing a tantrum until we get it, well, my tantrum is for a few hours with that most amazing woman. Please add it to your list.