Bioware says NO LFD TOOL.

[SWGVet]

It's a better way to phrase your opinion to be honest. I can agree on the principle.

 

I wouldn't be so against it if it wasn't cross server. If we were given the choice of cross server or just LFG server side I would pick server side only. At least then it wouldn't turn into a complete mess, and I could live with that.

[Daeborn]

Stephen Reid:

 

We're aware of this desire, but we actually believe that finding others on the same planet as you encourages social interaction a bit more than a general 'group finder'. We're not saying it'll never, ever happen but again, not high priority right now.

 

Kudos to Bioware for not giving in. I won't be so crass as to tell players who want this to go back to WoW, but I will point out that you now have a clear choice.

 

I agree with him.

[DarthVita]

I actually like the WOW LFG tool. Some people don't have 1 hour to find people to do an instance. In Burning Crusade, the instances were 2 hours and you'd have people drop for no reason, 10-30 minutes into the instance... and then you'd have to replace them, which was a huge hassle and would take another 20-30 minutes.

 

Sure... get a guild, but it was nice having LFG for solo play sometimes, especially off hours.

 

The only change I'd make to the WOW LFG or cross server BGs, is to have better rewards for those people who choose to queue inside their server.

[Ethern]

asking people, whispering people, looking if anyone is also looking in a channel and reaching out to them instead of hoping that they ask you.

I honestly don't see the difference. Whether I the group is formed via a channel spam or a automated process , it does not change anything. You have to do the same social interactions after. The automated is just a quicker way to access to that social ground.

That you feel entitled to impose a longer process just for the sake of it astounds me. " You have to work a lot to find a group". Sorry, but that's not my definition of fun, nor the main content of the game.

Give me a LFD, and you will still be able to do all that longer process, I promise.

[Ethern]

I wouldn't be so against it if it wasn't cross server. If we were given the choice of cross server or just LFG server side I would pick server side only. At least then it wouldn't turn into a complete mess, and I could live with that.

I am glad to hear this. I am also in favour of a two options LFD. One server wide and one cross server wide.

[indyin]

I don't understand how spamming general chat that you are LFG is social at all. I think getting in a group quicker so you can start killing stuff together and advancing through quest would be more social then spamming general.

 

Perhaps they are encouraging people joining guilds to group with guildmates and socialize more that way. However, BW has made it harder to find a recruiting guild for your exact forum unless you want to scroll through pages of threads hoping to find someone recruiting on your server and your faction. Or they want other people to do their job (fansites) and have server specific forums that we must go and and find and hope guilds are recruiting on that fansite. I expected to see more recruiting in game, however I hardly ever see anyone spamming they are recruiting for thier guild on my server.

Edited December 25, 2011 by indyin

[Seifz]

I don't understand what social interaction he's talking about. Every single operation and flashpoint in this game is on the Fleet. Finding a group is like this:

 

/1 Sentinel LFG The Esseles

<wait a minute>

<hit enter, up, enter>

<wait a minute>

...

 

The only time that pattern changes is when someone else starts spamming the same thing as you and then you can invite them. How is this in any way fun for anyone?

 

A single-server dungeon finder would allow me to actually play the game while searching for a group instead of just sitting around on Fleet doing nothing for 20-30 minutes.

 

Thankfully, SR is wrong a lot and nothing he says really matters.

[SWGVet]

Talking about facts here, and you still have not answered it at all. Having an LFD server side only, and the spamming of the LFG messages have nothing to do with weather you'll get douchebags or not, cause you can get them either way.

 

The fact is, the only difference between an server side only LFG system and spamming the chat channel with the same message, is the frequency of actually getting groups together, in which a server side LFD system would create them faster. That is it, after that, everything else is exactly the same, 100% the same. If you get douchebags, you'll put them on your ignore list and move on.

 

Anyways, I imagine that nobody will ever be able to answer my question without bringing up problems that are only associated with a cross realm system, in which what you stated is a problem of a cross realm system.

 

So I'll ask again for other to answer it

 

How does spamming /1 with the same LFG create a community, that a server side only LFG system cannot?

 

I want an answer to this that doesn't bring up WoW Cross Realm LFD and all the problems that come with it being a cross realm LFD, ie loot ninjas and douchebags because of no accountability.

 

 

You are misunderstanding me, I'm merely talking about cross server LFG, not server side LFG. I have said numerous times that I wouldn't be against server side LFG system.

 

 

If I run into a douche, at least I'll know who he is from my server, however with cross server the douche-like attitude increases and you cannot do anything about it.

 

 

Hell you could be brought into another group with that person, if they are on my server and I know who they are I can keep track of them and never be forced to group with them. Mission accomplished.

 

 

However with an cross server side LFG that will never be available, and I may be thrown into another dungeon with the said douche-like person.

 

 

I'm down for a server side LFG tool, but against cross server LFG, period. I will never change my opinion, just because others disagree.

Edited December 25, 2011 by SWGVet

[Jeweledleah]

I honestly don't see the difference. Whether I the group is formed via a channel spam or a automated process , it does not change anything. You have to do the same social interactions after. The automated is just a quicker way to access to that social ground.

That you feel entitled to impose a longer process just for the sake of it astounds me. " You have to work a lot to find a group". Sorry, but that's not my definition of fun, nor the main content of the game.

Give me a LFD, and you will still be able to do all that longer process, I promise.

 

 

sigh. they used to say that about DBM.. and recount and plethora of ther "convenience" tools. sooner or later, they become "required" tools.

 

and yes its different, becasue believe it or not, psychologically you are less inclined to treat people you had to make an effort to find as disposable, which is what random automated grouping does.

[Bleedbloo]

The problem I have with the LFD tool is that it does the work for you. Effectively ruining any responsibility or initiative in forming groups. If it takes work to form a group, people will be less likely to ruin it by being disruptive because they know that if they are kicked, it will take more time and work to get back into another group.

 

For people, all actions are the results of their concequences. If there are no negative concequences for negative behavior, it will never be corrected. You only have to look at how people treat each other on forums vs real life to understand that.

[Ethern]

Spamming the channel IS NOT MORE SOCIAL!!

 

1) - LFG Athiss

- invite me

X has invited Y to the group

* the recruitment process is complete*

 

then: -Hello

- Hi, etc

 

 

2) LFD has grouped you with Y

* the recruitment process is complete*

- Hello

- Hi.

 

How can people argue that 1) is more social then 2) ? It's only the recruitment phase. I genuinely do not understand this nonsense.

1) and 2) are the same, except that 2) is quicker.

[Fastor]

and yes its different, becasue believe it or not, psychologically you are less inclined to treat people you had to make an effort to find as disposable, which is what random automated grouping does.

I agree to a certain extent. But, I disagree that the solution to people being jerks is to create a barrier to entry to finding a group.

[Eldren]

Stephen Reid's statement gives me happy feelings all over.

 

I get that players want the convenience of a cross-realm tool for group content. I understand it quite well. Many millions of people's primary experience with an MMO is World of Warcraft, and they were able to put considerable resources into arranging a system that let players see content quicker vs. getting bored with the game because they were standing in a city for two hours putting together a group to run something. Sadly, that system has the unfortunate effect of bringing out existing sociopathic behavior from many players, who realize they can be jerks all they want, as they have no practical consequences for their actions unless they somehow get a 30-minute break from instancing because someone managed to get a majority vote for their ejection. Most people don't bother: they silently put up with their group's foibles, try their personal best, and hope they come out of the instance with new loot and a small repair bill.

 

This said, I like the idea that people are going to form communities on their given servers. I like that someone prone to being a jerk is going to get blacklisted, and might suffer consequences for their poor behavioral choices. We learn to become better people, and interact better with the people around us, when we make mistakes that have consequences. Those consequences convince us that we don't want to repeat the behavior, because the consequences were undesirable.

 

Someone who might not play their class very well can be taught, with patience, to improve. Someone who's just an antisocial jerk who's there to take a giant thermonuclear crap on everyone else's gaming experience, however, refuses to be taught, because their purpose isn't to enjoy the game, but just to make sure that others don't.

 

I like that those peoples' presence in groups is ultimately minimized because their server reputation is such that they don't get into groups. A cross-server group-gathering function eliminates this, and lets those people continue to be jerks with little to no real consequence: they still progress their character, and make everyone else's lives miserable while they're at it until we'd reach the same place WoW is at with their grouping tool right now: people who have learned to just numb themselves to the pain because they realize it's either put up with the jerk, or see no new loot or content for their favorite characters.

[Darkulous]

When their lower level content starts collecting dust and new players start complaining that there's no one around, it'll happen.

[Wolfeisberg]

You are misunderstanding me, I'm merely talking about cross server LFG, not server side LFG. I have said numerous times that I wouldn't be against server side LFG system.

 

 

If I run into a douche, at least I'll know who he is from my server, however with cross server the douche-like attitude increases and you cannot do anything about it.

 

 

Hell you could be brought into another group with that person, if they are on my server and I know who they are I can keep track of them and never be forced to group with them. Mission accomplished.

 

 

However with an cross server side LFG that will never be available, and may be thrown into another dungeon with the said douche-like person.

 

That wasn't my question in the first place, my question was specific to a serve side only, and I stated that.

 

Is that what is happening on this thread, the people who are against an LFD system are all thinking cross realm, where as the people for the LFD have all been talking about a server side only LFD?

 

Cause no one has been able to answer my question, and the only things I have seen people talk about on this thread are all problems of a cross realm system, not a server side system.

 

My question again

 

How does spamming /1 with the same LFG create a community, that a server side only LFG system cannot?

 

I want an answer to this that doesn't bring up WoW Cross Realm LFD and all the problems that come with it being a cross realm LFD, ie loot ninjas and douchebags because of no accountability.

[SWGVet]

Spamming the channel IS NOT MORE SOCIAL!!

 

1) - LFG Athiss

- invite me

X has invited Y to the group

* the recruitment process is complete*

 

then: -Hello

- Hi, etc

 

 

2) LFD has grouped you with Y

* the recruitment process is complete*

- Hello

- Hi.

 

How can people argue that 1) is more social then 2) ? It's only the recruitment phase. I genuinely do not understand this nonsense.

1) and 2) are the same, except that 2) is quicker.

 

 

Conversations don't always end up the way you are bringing them up to get you're point across. You are only seeing it the way you want to see it. I could also make a friend while inviting them to join up with me and meet some nice people, social interaction is a virtue. However with cross server that option is taken away, which results in the opposite, People being rude etc because they can get away with it.

Edited December 25, 2011 by SWGVet

[Ethern]

sigh. they used to say that about DBM.. and recount and plethora of ther "convenience" tools. sooner or later, they become "required" tools.

 

and yes its different, becasue believe it or not, psychologically you are less inclined to treat people you had to make an effort to find as disposable, which is what random automated grouping does.

If I understand correctly, this effort should be mandatory and so heavy at the point of not finding a group for the night at all? Just because you think that you should treat people differently depending on the way you recruit them?

Excuse me, but not only it is stupid, but also, it is actually LESS SOCIAL to think that way.

[Fastor]

Stephen Reid's statement gives me happy feelings all over.

 

I get that players want the convenience of a cross-realm tool for group content.

However, Stephen didn't rule out just a cross-realm tool. The original post he was responding to asked for this:

A easier way to find groups...Some kind of way to have a global search/group finder would be nice.

Stephen has ruled out any tool to help find groups. That is a poor decision.

[Blazenit]

Good. I played WoW from Vannila and LFD severely hurt the community andmade guilds far less important. I'm all for no LFD tools, at least for a few expansions.

[Barracudastr]

so group when you play during normal hours?

 

I swear, this "I want things my way and I want them now" attitude is... not surprising actually, but still sad.

 

Its not even about that.... this profiling crap that some of you do is sad.

 

People want to play the game, people cant due to limitations on being able to form a group and you put that under the category of i want it my way and now? are you serious with that comment?

 

What if you were in the same boat as some of us and couldn't get a group and were requesting a tool to help with that so you could play a big chunk of the games content.

Would you just sit there in silence and be like owell guess ill play single player in this MMO.

 

Thats a little ignorant you have to admit.

 

We pay for the game just like you do and because we cant get groups we are speaking out about it and that makes us needy for wanting to play the game? Think about what your saying.

[Seifz]

However, Stephen didn't rule out just a cross-realm tool. The original post he was responding to asked for this:Stephen has ruled out any tool to help find groups. That is a poor decision.

 

SR is just a mouthpiece. He's wrong a lot. If the developers see enough demand for a better LFG system, they'll give us one.

[Wolfeisberg]

The problem I have with the LFD tool is that it does the work for you. Effectively ruining any responsibility or initiative in forming groups. If it takes work to form a group, people will be less likely to ruin it by being disruptive because they know that if they are kicked, it will take more time and work to get back into another group.

 

For people, all actions are the results of their concequences. If there are no negative concequences for negative behavior, it will never be corrected. You only have to look at how people treat each other on forums vs real life to understand that.

 

Just have the system not group you up with people who you put on your ignore list. Now people don't want to be douchebags because if they get on to many ignore lists they'll find themselves waiting a very long time in the LFD system.

[Ethern]

Conversations don't always end up the way you are bringing them up to get you're point across. You are only seeing it the way you want to see it. I could also make a friend while inviting them to join up with me and meet some nice people, social interaction is a virtue. However with cross server that option is taken away.

Then give me an example then.

Because what I described is what i have experienced since the early access. All the social interactions were done once the group was formed, then I added them as friend if the experience was good.

It's not the other way round. I do not make friend with the whole server, then find a group.

[Barracudastr]

NO ONE IS ASKING FOR CROSS SERVER!!!!!!!!!!!

 

A SIMPLE F'ING TOOL TO GROUP WITH PEOPLE ON YOUR SERVER!!!!!!

 

THAT WILL NOT BREAK ANY SOCIAL IMMERSION BUT STRENGTHEN IT AS ITS PEOPLE YOU PLAY WITH EVERYDAY!!!!!!!

 

SPAMMING IN /1 IS NOT FREAKING SOCIAL NETWORKING!!!!!!!!!!

 

PEOPLE DONT JUST GROUP UP AND BE LIKE OH WE ARE BUDDIES CUZ WE DID IT THROUGH /1 LETS BE FRIENDS.

 

PEOPLE BECOME FRIENDS AND GROUP OFTEN AFTER RUNNING THE CONTENT REGARDLESS OF HOW THE GROUP WAS FORMED!

 

maybe if i type in all caps people wont just skim posts and reply with the same cross server breaks stuff crap.

[Herbertllew]

Butter tasted so much better when you had to churn it yourself.