Discipline System; I don't suppose there is still time to reconsider?

[Icebergy]

I was strongly opposed to this system when WoW implemented it in their last expac, and I haven't seen any reason it will be an improvement to the game here.

 

I just picked up a free 7 day trial of WoW, and finally got to level my 85s up to 90. I finally got to see this new talentless system first hand.

 

And its boring. Leveling means basically nothing now. Its just a tick mark to check up to max level. You barely notice when you level because there is really nothing to look forward to.

 

I really don't know what the devs think the point of this is. I've never been on the "WoW clone bandwagon" for this game or any game, but in this case it pretty much seems to me that they are just blatantly copying what WoW did because WoW makes more money.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Icebergy

[azudelphi]

I was strongly opposed to this system when WoW implemented it in their last expac, and I haven't seen any reason it will be an improvement to the game here.

 

I just picked up a free 7 day trial of WoW, and finally got to level my 85s up to 90. I finally got to see this new talentless system first hand.

 

And its boring. Leveling means basically nothing now. Its just a tick mark to check up to max level. You barely notice when you level because there is really nothing to look forward to.

 

I really don't know what the devs think the point of this is. I've never been on the "WoW clone bandwagon" for this game or any game, but in this case it pretty much seems to me that they are just blatantly copying what WoW did because WoW makes more money.

 

Leveling does mean something. It means new abilities; new actives, new passives, new modifications to existing abilities, and so on.... It also means new utilities available.

 

The point of this is to remove hybrids from the game outright, to give more control to the formerly shared trees, and promote balance between all specs.

 

Far too soon to call it a mistake to go this direction, but the logic for why we are seeing a change that destroys skill point systems is sound.

[TUXs]

It's a good change. This isn't W0W.

[OddballEasyEight]

You suppose right.

It's too late.

 

Besides, why condemn a system you haven't even tried yet?

 

As for it being too "linear", just look at 99% of all players who used the same build as everyone else using the same AC.

And those who didn't use that build were usually berated for it as being "noobs" for not min-maxing their abilities in that class.

The only thing that changes here is that you can't hybrid in the same way.

[Icebergy]

Besides, why condemn a system you haven't even tried yet?

 

As I stated in my post, I did try it already.

[TUXs]

As I stated in my post, I did try it already.

 

Closed beta?!

[MillionsKNives]

Closed beta?!

 

Doubt it, and if he was then he'd be in breach of the NDA for saying so. Plus if he was beta testing then there'd be no reason to post this here instead of wherever they're taking beta feedback.

 

I think when he says he's tried it he means WoW's. Though I don't know why he thinks that makes him qualified to comment on SWTOR's new system.

[BobbaJohn]

I

 

I just picked up a free 7 day trial of WoW, and finally got to level my 85s up to 90. I finally got to see this new talentless system first hand.

 

He tried a system in WOW....as mentioned, SWTOR is not Wow. Again - complaining about a system that has not been released yet is pointless.

[Icebergy]

He tried a system in WOW....as mentioned, SWTOR is not Wow. Again - complaining about a system that has not been released yet is pointless.

 

Its a very similar system.

 

Also you need to look up the difference between complaining and giving feedback.

[TUXs]

Its a very similar system.

 

Also you need to look up the difference between complaining and giving feedback.

LOL! The irony coming from you.

 

And you haven't tried it...you played W0W.

[Jimvinny]

Its a very similar system.

 

Also you need to look up the difference between complaining and giving feedback.

 

You are incapable of giving feedback on something you haven't experienced. Therefore, complaining.

[Icebergy]

LOL! The irony coming from you.

 

And you haven't tried it...you played W0W.

 

Not sure why this was necessary, Tux.

 

You are incapable of giving feedback on something you haven't experienced. Therefore, complaining.

 

Yea OK. McDonalds comes out with a new hamburger, I don't think it sounds good, but I am not allowed to say so because I haven't eaten it.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Icebergy

[DanNV]

I don't play WoW, but I have friends who do. One has the office right next to mine. He absolutely loves the locked skill trees because it killed hybrids. I like the design of disciplines I've seen so far for the same reason. I'm looking forward to the next 2 streams and to the expansion.

[anonnn]

From what I understand, skill progression and the skills themselves aren't actually going to change all that much. They simply moved a lot of the skills into the level-progression path (on the left side of the window) and reworked the 3 skill trees into a different arrangement in 3 panes of skill tiers on the right side of the window.

 

Supposedly the biggest difference will be that some skills previously exclusive to someone putting all their skill points in one tree, will now be possible to use by anyone - essentially making hybrid skill sets more viable.

[TUXs]

Not sure why this was necessary, Tux.

 

Because you haven't even tried it, yet here you are whining about it. You played another game with a similar system and therefore think you know how this one will be.

 

Fact is, something needed to give. 5 more levels meant 5 more skill points which meant more hybrids or or another row of wasted fluff "skills" to get back to the top. This is a great change imo...a much needed change!

[Sangrar]

Because you haven't even tried it, yet here you are whining about it. You played another game with a similar system and therefore think you know how this one will be.

 

Fact is, something needed to give. 5 more levels meant 5 more skill points which meant more hybrids or or another row of wasted fluff "skills" to get back to the top. This is a great change imo...a much needed change!

 

exactly, this had to be done because in the end we already saw 5 more points screw class balance horribly for a while, this had to be done in order for there to be more level cap increases in teh future without such screw ups of balance.

 

 

 

and leveling still matters since there are a majority of abilities that still will require the proper level to unlock, so there definitely is stuff to look forward to still when leveling.

[TUXs]

and leveling still matters since there are a majority of abilities that still will require the proper level to unlock, so there definitely is stuff to look forward to still when leveling.

Exactly!!! It's not like you hit 10 and BAM...get it all...you're still unlocking to 60.

[Drudenfusz]

I haven't played the new disciline system yet, but from how it looks I have to say it looks better then what WoW did... and to be honest, with the removal of hybrids (which is sad, but that decisions seems final) the new system seems to give more freedom of choice instead of less.

[Jadescythe]

Its a very similar system.

 

Also you need to look up the difference between complaining and giving feedback.

 

Giving feedback is constructive, complaining is this thread. Disciplines clearly fixes issues that needed to be addressed. Hybrids being the main issue. The devs did not have time to properly balance hybrids and with the rise in level cap, even more points would be moving to new trees and skill trees would be getting even bigger. This system will streamline the process for devs.

 

It allows better abilities to be available earlier to each Discipline since you don't have to worry about other specs sniping key abilities from other trees. It opens up the ability to give great utilities such as Overload Root or Bubble Stun to specs other than Lightning (one example). There are many positives.

 

The only negatives are that you no longer get to click your skill choices, which were exactly the same for every player 99% of the time. The 1% of players were doing something not specifically intended, but also not specifically against the functionality. From your post, this was not you as you don't sound like the type of person who takes a sub par build for RP or enjoyment purposes.

 

Perhaps you could make a comment as to what your issue is beyond it being boring and make a suggestion to improve it, keeping in mind what the goal of the change is. Otherwise this remains complaining rather than feedback.

[Alucardess]

I fail to see why people still complain about disciplines. If it's because of hybrids, well, they're OP. If you want to be your own special snowflake, then well, you can always be your own special snowflake in 3.0 by taking different utilities.

 

3.0 is nothing but streamlining the false sense of choice we have/had in 2.10 and previous iterations. In 2.10, It's not like you're not going to get certain skills because they have to be there as part of a rotation, else you're not going to do anything. In addition, you're obviously going to get the DPS/survivability boosts in your tree. That leaves different skills for utility. In regards to that, yeah you only get 7 choices, but you get 7 choices out of the entire utilities that came from different trees. If anything you get more choices. As a Madness sorc, I certainly wasn't going to waste skill points getting the Affliction slow in PVP, because I needed points to get Egress. Now, I can get Egress, the Affliction slow, and Bubble Stun.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Alucardess

[bcasner]

There is a comfort factor that is violated when a familiar system is junked in favor of a "new and improved" system. Some folks just resist changing. The new discipline system will hopefully have a good impact overall, but fear of the unknown and the uncomfortable adjustment to a new system will lose some folks. Just simple psychology.

 

As for myself I trust the designers to have the big picture more in view. According to what I read EA is losing money on SWTOR, this might turn that around. A little faith that they want us to enjoy the game more too should offset the fear of the changes. I think the only constant in the Universe that's always guaranteed is it's always changing. Let's support the idea and see what happens.

[Tallwyn]

I am looking forward to the discipline and utility system basically because of how awesome those utilitys seem to be.

 

I hardly belive im the only Sage who ever thought to himself how nice it would be to have Egress (dispells are acitve movement imparing effects and makes you immune to them for the duration of Force speed) while in either full Telekinetic or Balance specc.

 

How about Mind Ward (reduces periodic damage taken by 15%) as a Seer or Telekinetic on specific boss fights or PVP. Well now you can.

 

Mental Defence (30% less damage taken while stunned) also seems a perfect PVP talent for Sage healers.

 

How about being able to slow players with Weaken Mind by 30% in Telekinetic or Balance specc? I dont think alot of ppl ever took Confound from the Seer Talet tree. Might be usefull for some situations....

 

They seem to have created a truly good utility on demand system IMHO, which simply was not available or not practical before 3.0.

[Andryah]

Because you haven't even tried it, yet here you are whining about it. You played another game with a similar system and therefore think you know how this one will be.

 

Fact is, something needed to give. 5 more levels meant 5 more skill points which meant more hybrids or or another row of wasted fluff "skills" to get back to the top. This is a great change imo...a much needed change!

 

Clearly this thread exists in an alternate universe of some kind. Why? Because I find myself disagreeing with Icebergy and agreeing with TUXs.

 

Just because WoW did something similar is completely irrelevant. And, it's absurd to point to WoWs current system and judge a system one has not even played yet in SWTOR. And.. if Icebergy did actually play the new system.. he could not reveal it to us as he would be under NDA... so this thread is indeed a complaint thread.

 

Based on what has been disclosed to us so far, I like the new system. Sure... it means change and some people stress about change. But change is good, particularly in games, where players get bored and players pigeon hole each other into fixed skill spec (under pain of ridicule).

 

Once the player base decides how to cookie cutter the new disciplines (like they did with skill trees), I'm sure we will once again see forced choices under pain of ridicule again...but hopefully it's less notable this time around.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Andryah

[CmdrShpd]

As for myself I trust the designers to have the big picture more in view. According to what I read EA is losing money on SWTOR, this might turn that around.

 

What I think you read is that SWTOR's revenue was down last quarter compared to a year ago. This is a VERY, VERY different thing from saying that EA is losing money on SWTOR. As far as I have read, there is no reason not to believe that the game is still very much profitable.

[Andryah]

What I think you read is that SWTOR's revenue was down last quarter compared to a year ago. This is a VERY, VERY different thing from saying that EA is losing money on SWTOR. As far as I have read, there is no reason not to believe that the game is still very much profitable.

 

/Agree.

 

It's easy to see when a game property under EA is not performing to requirements (revenue, cost, profit) --> you will see very public indication of layoffs. THAT is the litmus test to determine if the game is/is-not meeting EA expectations.