Pscyon Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I didn't quite catch it in the stream thingie, but is there an actual reason to DoT removal being removed or is this just a PvP thing screwing people over as usual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I didn't quite catch it in the stream thingie, but is there an actual reason to DoT removal being removed or is this just a PvP thing screwing people over as usual? I am wondering if cleanses are being split from purges, and purges will take over as the PVE dot removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 OMG! A root on overload?!!! They'll be unstoppable. They'll decimate entire teams and plant on the doors in Voidstar without breaking a sweat. They'll be soloing Ops bosses. They will dominate Republic bases all by themselves. They'll have to rename SWTOR to Sorc Wars: The Old Republic because we'll all roll Sorcs just so we can root our opponents with a weak pushback ability. ... [/sarcasm] Madness is pure ezmode right now and can easily kite melee for days. Them now being able to have access to bubble stun and root on knockback will just make them ridiculous. Why bother playing melee anymore? You can be sarcastic all you want but you have no idea how badly this system is going to break the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orizuru Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I am wondering if cleanses are being split from purges, and purges will take over as the PVE dot removal. I read somewhere that the general idea is the intent is to only give self-purge abilities to stealth classes so they can remove DoTs before using an in-combat stealth like Force Cloak. For all other purposes, it seems they want the healers to be cleansing. I can't remember where I read that though, or I would provide a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarkTrain Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) I am wondering if cleanses are being split from purges, and purges will take over as the PVE dot removal. Yes, this is how they explained it in the stream. Only the stealth classes will have a purge ability which will (still) remove DoTs. The reason mentioned was so that they would be able to restealth since this is part of their defense mechanism. (I wonder if this will be added to sent/mara cloak ability as well?) Otherwise the opposing team could just keep a DoT on them and they would never be able to restealth. Cleanses will no longer remove DoTs, but they will remove stuns (and presumably roots, but I don't think they said that).. Edited October 8, 2014 by TarkTrain Mistake in wording, replace purge with cleanse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) Yes, this is how they explained it in the stream. Only the stealth classes will have a purge ability which will (still) remove DoTs. The reason mentioned was so that they would be able to restealth since this is part of their defense mechanism. (I wonder if this will be added to sent/mara cloak ability as well?) Otherwise the opposing team could just keep a DoT on them and they would never be able to restealth. Purges will no longer remove DoTs, but they will remove stuns (and presumably roots, but I don't think they said that).. I guess a better way to phrase it is that I am wondering if healing classes gain a purge ability that is going to be the Operations equivalent to cleanses as they currently stand. So, Purge used on a Vanguard in a warzone won't do anything to the dots applied by a Marauder. But Purge used on Vanguard in Dread Fortress will remove the dots applied by Nefra. Edited October 8, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBlackJack Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I guess a better way to phrase it is that I am wondering if healing classes gain a purge ability that is going to be the Operations equivalent to cleanses as they currently stand. So, Purge used on a Vanguard in a warzone won't do anything to the dots applied by a Marauder. But Purge used on Vanguard in Dread Fortress will remove the dots applied by Nefra. Nope clensee in both PvP and pve will not work on dots outside of the purged (dodge resilience) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Nope clensee in both PvP and pve will not work on dots outside of the purged (dodge resilience) Well, by all accounts, they have some solution to mechanics like Nefra's raid-wide DoT or the Dread Council's Death Marks (with an instant kill on failure to cleanse). So... some change has either happened to the mechanics, or to the nature of PVE cleansing. Purges are a PVE cleanse change. It's not out of the realm of possibility that they are going with that route. But I of course am speculating and not announcing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphasgimaone Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I don't care much about the loss of hybrids. There were some cases where it was handy: having access to both sage/sorc AoEs for getting through daily trash was nice. But It won't kill me not to have both of them. Just means more quake/storm. There were a couple of places were they were amusing in pvp: like having all the shadow cc abilities made for some fun trolling. But again, not a big loss. I'm certainly willing to give hybrids up if it means better balance. I also think people are getting way too excited about sorcs. Both guys made it clear that all specs were going to see that kind of improvement. It suggests BIO has finally decided to change its approach towards class balance. In the past, they've consistently tried to balance by taking away, addition by subtraction. It was nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, and it clearly wasn't working. Now it seems like they're taking the opposite approach: buff everything into the stratosphere and see what happens. It might work; it might not work, but I'm interested to see how things turn out. As far as the DoTs/cleanse, I agree it's just too much. I don't know why they insist on shoving damage over time down our throats. It's been their answer to everything. Probably 2/3 of all damage mechanics in the game are DoT-based in some fashion. It shows laziness and a lack of creativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kongol Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Ya.. cause people weren't already taking the same skill tree talents.. well people like you maybe.. and the people that love to min and max.. Allot of us as in people i know play for fun,,, Who cares if you have best build.. we build them to how ww see them develop... as in RPG very on happy with this basicly just rams thru content to get to pvp.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kongol Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 It really isn't that much better currently. There are a few hybrids that do work, but most of those specs are just a fancy way of being bad. The most variety I've seen among Deception Assassins is whether they chose to have increase armor while Surging Charge is active or whether they chose to do increase damage to target affected by electrocute. Who cares of they where bad.. as i said to another.. ALLOT of us play for fun and develop our builds to suit the person we are playing as in rpg... this system is for the rush to end min max pvpers as usual... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Who cares of they where bad.. as i said to another.. ALLOT of us play for fun and develop our builds to suit the person we are playing as in rpg... this system is for the rush to end min max pvpers as usual... The devs are not going to allow class combat imbalances to cater to RP'ers... if you think they would or should, then that's a failure of expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orizuru Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Who cares of they where bad.. as i said to another.. ALLOT of us play for fun and develop our builds to suit the person we are playing as in rpg... this system is for the rush to end min max pvpers as usual... Honestly, I don't care if they want to be bad either. However, when they show up in GF as my tank or healer and we continue to wipe on trash as a result, I think they should be tarred and feathered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 For me, I couldn't care less if hybrids ruined PuGs. It's the nature of the PuG. Run premades like you should if you don't like the lack of control over those you run with. However, I do see the problem hybrids caused with respect to balance. I loath the balance crusade, and welcome this change if it means less changes and tweaks down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Who cares of they where bad.. as i said to another.. ALLOT of us play for fun and develop our builds to suit the person we are playing as in rpg... this system is for the rush to end min max pvpers as usual... Then RP you still have the build you wanted...the assumption that this is about PvP balance is comical. It's about removing hybrids and eliminating bad choices by people who think they're being "unique". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamennebbie Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Madness is pure ezmode right now and can easily kite melee for days. Them now being able to have access to bubble stun and root on knockback will just make them ridiculous. Why bother playing melee anymore? You can be sarcastic all you want but you have no idea how badly this system is going to break the game. Neither do you, considering there's 7 more classes to cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errant_knight Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) I think the level of panic is a tad excessive. We know ery little about this yet. Irritation, sure. I'm still irritated about losing pommel strike way back when. I lloved that, lol. But let's wait a tad before ddeciding that this is a bad idea. Edited October 8, 2014 by errant_knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarkTrain Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Based on what they said in the stream, I would agree with MisterBlackJack, it did not sound like they were planning on adding purges to healers. So I am as curious as you are as to how this will be dealt with in operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I think the level of panic is a tad excessive. We know ery little about this yet. Irritation, sure. I'm still irritated about losing pommel strike way back when. I lloved that, lol. But let's wait a tad before ddeciding that this is a bad idea. Ya think?! Geezus...from the stream, I was kinda impressed. My biggest fear was they'd go to like 4 skills from what we have now, dumbing this down to controller level. Instead, it looked like our variety of skills was mostly intact and they just changed how we received the top tier type skills...I was pleased...from what I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunafox Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Then RP you still have the build you wanted...the assumption that this is about PvP balance is comical. It's about removing hybrids and eliminating bad choices by people who think they're being "unique". I don't play a hybrid, never have, and I'm not defending either way...I'm just curious, a couple of people have said that hybrids are bad. You also said they're bad choices, well if they're so bad, then why bother to change? Clearly they mustn't be such poor choices, if they're breaking the game, and making it so that it can't be balanced. That would suggest to me, that hybrids are OP, and that's why they want to kill them off...not because they suck. If people sucked, no one would care, but I suspect that they don't. Hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I don't play a hybrid, never have, and I'm not defending either way...I'm just curious, a couple of people have said that hybrids are bad. You also said they're bad choices, well if they're so bad, then why bother to change? Clearly they mustn't be such poor choices, if they're breaking the game, and making it so that it can't be balanced. That would suggest to me, that hybrids are OP, and that's why they want to kill them off...not because they suck. If people sucked, no one would care, but I suspect that they don't. Hmm... It's both. Either you have a spec outperforming the intended designs through unexpected synergies or you have a spec that has no synergies or direction and isn't functional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bemii Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I play the hybrid sniper/slinger and op/smug even a oddball sorc/sage every so often and I can tell you that I am only slightly bothered by this change. Big whoop they are pulling out something that should have never been included in the first place. If I think of what bothers me the most is the change of "utility" points and how much freedom I will have to customize my toons. I'd rather not have a cookie cutter spec with nothing unique or different about it. So dev team please make the utility points worth all of our time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Ah so you can't play the game unless you are Overpowered. Boo hoo. Good bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsenex Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Ah so you can't play the game unless you are Overpowered. Boo hoo. Good bye. ^^^ We have a winner! Truth is found! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 No more hybrid builds...... Totaly rewamp system....... Yeah I'm screwed GOOD! Stupid Hybrids... Really, really, sick of them... So... don't let the door hit you where the good lord split ya. I am very happy to see Hybrids going away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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