Please introduce dual spec ASAP

[Casil]

Why stop at dual spec? WoW isn't the only authority on respecs. I would love to have a Guild Wars type of solution where I can have an infinite number of respecs with the ability to save and load skill points and hotbars.

 

To balance it out, make it so we can only change our specs in rest zones (i.e. ship, fleet and cantinas) so that there is a slight time cost involved if players want to min-max each encounter or a group's tank ragequits and they need to find a replacement player anyways.

[Stormag]

it will help alot to find group as a heal/dps or tank/dps, please do it

[DarthTenor]

I mentioned before since bioware has prodiced a game in the lines of the successful WOW, why did they not impleiment this in the first place. Dual spec was so welcomed in WOW that BW should have put this in in the first place.

 

In WOW it was pretty hard to level as a priest without going in the shadow tree. When Dual spec was allowed I was able to solo then heal in instances etc.

 

There are so many players looking for healers and tanks. Most players go DPS because well nit's fun and if you're soloing most of the time, why not go DPS and rip through the mobs faster. AS many have said this game is by a high percentage single player based IMO. I mostly solo the missions/class quests and look for groups in flashpoints and heroice quests/missions.

 

 

Again TOR IMO is a single player game with MMO aspects. Since BW did so much to bringing story to the MMO, it feels as though the game, is single player RPG. HAveing dual specs will definitely help those that want to heal but also want to experience the DPS side of the tree. Same with tanks. I'm liking the gaurdian but I don't want to be a tank when I'm doing my class quests etc.

[Bekkal]

Because you don't want to see it. Clearly, no one who disagrees with you is ever going to give you a single viable argument against the incluse of dual speccing that you will agree with.

 

Your opinions are exactly that, opinions. Stop declaring that they are some kind of fact.

 

Someone doesn't understand how a debate works. I offer a point, you offer a counterpoint, and we continue until one of us is out of points.

 

In the dual spec argument, the "con" argument has brought forth no points that haven't been soundly defeated in this very thread.

[Mazikeen]

I would like to point out that a MAJOR reason why Rift was enjoyed as much as it was had to do with it's multi-soul (aka multi-spec) options

 

While I admit Rift has fewer players than SWTOR, if you look at comments online about the soul options you find many, many people raving over the flexibility of their characters

 

Currently, BioWare is only considering (from what I have read thus far) dual-specs and not dual-ACs because each AC is considered a different class in itself

[Thorun]

I support this idea, I'm an avid WoW player, I just recently quit WoW only days before playing this game, I still like WoW, and I plan on playing WoW again.

 

get mad bro, deal with it.

 

Just because haters hate WoW so much, they attack anything that can be attributed to WoW. get over yourself. This idea has nothing to do with WoW; it has everything to do with talent systems. If i have multiple options, i expect to be able to play them all at the drop of a hat.

 

Just like how i prefer a car to have a sun roof. I had one once and now a car w/o one isn't good enough for me. My expectations were elevated by better features. Who still wants a radio that was made in the 1950's? I actually prefer quality sound over novelty ideas.

 

/logiced

 

Good post!

 

NOW go ahead and insult me now!

[MajikMyst]

it will help alot to find group as a heal/dps or tank/dps, please do it

 

And what if your a character like a Sentinel that is just dps/dps?? Does he sit out and do nothing??

 

This is why it needs to be left out..

 

Thanks for making my point..

[HotLeadSingerGuy]

I don't see why people would be against a dual spec. If you don't want to use it then it has completely no effect on your character in any way but for those that do want it it's a huge convenience and time/money saver.

 

Umm...actually it does. When you allow dual-speccing you're suddenly allowing people to play multiple classes. Not at the same time, but none the less.

 

The reason that affects other players is because there are plenty of players that only pick one class and have no reason to play another. For instance, if someone *ONLY* wants to be a tank, they'll be at a severe disadvantage when people are looking for guild members or group mates because while he can only play a tank, someone else could play a tank *or* DPS...making him immensely more useful.

 

Dual-speccing is a terrible thing, because it removes the entire "class" structure. In this game, every sub-class can be *just* about everything. Shadow has the ability to be a tank (self-healing tank, none the less), dps, or CC. Sage (the other Consular subclass) can go DPS, healing, or CC.

 

Allowing dual-spec means people don't have to look for groups as often, which severely diminishes the ability of a new player to find a group. It's just not a good idea.

 

I, as well as many other people, prefer just have clear-cut classes. Older MMOs didn't allow class-blending, and it worked perfectly because you *needed* certain things to beat certain bosses/areas. This meant everyone was useful for various tasks.

[Bekkal]

And what if your a character like a Sentinel that is just dps/dps?? Does he sit out and do nothing??

 

This is why it needs to be left out..

 

Thanks for making my point..

 

No, you actually gain increased grouping opportunities because the other 3 people you are with may be running dps/heal, pvp/heal, dps/tank, or pvp/tank and can switch easily.

 

Even the dps/more-different-dps people win here.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Bekkal

[Basiliscus]

And what if your a character like a Sentinel that is just dps/dps?? Does he sit out and do nothing??

 

This is why it needs to be left out..

 

Thanks for making my point..

 

then he gets a pve and pvp spec! Or he gets to use 2 different dps specs, choosing one over the other as the situations demand it? Didnt hear many complaints from the rogues/mages/warlocks

[Kemosobe]

I said this in one of the other many threads about adding a dual spec, so here I go again. I will allow Bioware to implement a dual spec tool into the game if, and only if, it hinders you in a way for using it. You now have the ability to learn the ways of two different paths, but with reduced stats or reduced skill power or something. I say this because of Bioware's whole philosophy of "Coices Matter". If you have learned two different fighting styles over just one, you will be hindered in both. "Jack of all trades, master of none" mentality. (Now let the hating commence)

[Ceth_Jonuck]

Duel spec within your AC? Sure...switching AC completely? NO...no no no no no no no no no. Please no. Choices matter in this game and I love it. When anyone can just be whatever they want, whenever they want it kinda takes something special away. Edited December 28, 2011 by Ceth_Jonuck

[Bekkal]

I said this in one of the other many threads about adding a dual spec, so here I go again. I will allow Bioware to implement a dual spec tool into the game if, and only if, it hinders you in a way for using it. You now have the ability to learn the ways of two different paths, but with reduced stats or reduced skill power or something. I say this because of Bioware's whole philosophy of "Coices Matter". If you have learned two different fighting styles over just one, you will be hindered in both. "Jack of all trades, master of none" mentality. (Now let the hating commence)

 

That makes no sense, because in any reasonable encounter you can't be a "Jack of all trades" as you are legitimately stuck in one of the "trades" until the encounter ends.

[Iskareot]

Assuming you aren't completely making up nonsense, a top-25 guild would only cut people because they were already dead weight but were among the best they could get on their server.

 

I was in a server-first guild, US top 100, and we would only even consider having someone switch specs if we had a hole to fill, regardless of whether or not there was currently a body in that position.

 

Some top-25 world guilds kept 100 man rosters to work around similar problems, as I am sure you are aware. Your guild was cutting weight and you are just too naive to realize it.

 

Nope and if you look up Rok.. you would see it is legit - However sure I know they would cut people BUT I watched duel spec ruin a lot of the aspects of the game.

 

SURE it made things easy for some, do not get me wrong but in the end it also made other people worse I think.

 

Instead of the NEED of a player it became "WHO CAN RESPEC".... vs Hey we need a healer... they kept it in the group instead of expanding and needing more?

 

See what I mean? When you lessen the NEED for a class or spec because you do not want to go outside of the circle it can also affect the entire community. I know.. I was there. We passed on other people because someone else could respec. Was he better? No not always sometimes yes sometimes no.

 

BUT one thing it did do is lessen the need for a good healer perse in that spot. Now do you see what I am saying?

 

It lessens the need to go outside of the circle and using communication to gain another or find someone.. also making the community less in need.

 

If the same group never goes outside to try to gain another good player it becomes somewhat stale. I watched that happen so often. Good guild or not. I watched it happen on Area 52 before the horde invasion and I watched it happen in Play and Symbolic Logic......

 

If it lessens the need it affects the community. No real debate on that, it's a matter of fact for obvious logical reasons.

[MajikMyst]

Someone doesn't understand how a debate works. I offer a point, you offer a counterpoint, and we continue until one of us is out of points.

 

In the dual spec argument, the "con" argument has brought forth no points that haven't been soundly defeated in this very thread.

 

No.. They know how a debate works.. You are ignoring all the countless points made in the 16 pages of this thread..

 

So how about you respond to them?? You can start with the loot issue and people rolling of off spec.. Then you can go to the people being pressured to make a character they don't want becauese their character can.. If I have a sage dps.. Why should I make a healer.. I will most likely have to as people will want me to heal instead of dps.. But I don't want to heal.. So I am left out..

 

Don't even go the route and say that stuff doesn't happen.. It happened in WOW constantly.. Dual spec and LFG were the two worst things that WOW could have done to the game.. Things were fine in BC before all those things were added.. No ninja looting from people from other servers.. No off specs..

 

How about you just respond to the many reasons you say don't exist..

 

That is how a debate works isn't??

 

Or is it like he said.. A reason that you agree with??

[Kemosobe]

That makes no sense, because in any reasonable encounter you can't be a "Jack of all trades" as you are legitimately stuck in one of the "trades" until the encounter ends.

 

With a dual spec, you would know more than one trade and would then be lacking in true skill in both. If you wan't something added so you don't have to work as hard, gotta have some sort of compromise.

[Mazikeen]

I mentioned before since bioware has prodiced a game in the lines of the successful WOW, why did they not impleiment this in the first place. Dual spec was so welcomed in WOW that BW should have put this in in the first place

 

I think they failed to implement a lot of things due tot he fact so many people simply wanted the game to be released. They had to perform a sort of 'feature triage'

 

A few things they failed to add that are, arguably, standard in MMOs now are: guild banks, dual-specs, UI customization and armor colormatching/dyes

 

All of these things can be added post-release via patches, so releasing the game as-is made more sense than peeving off the community and risking notable financial losses by delaying the game any further

[Mazikeen]

If you have learned two different fighting styles over just one, you will be hindered in both. "Jack of all trades, master of none" mentality. (Now let the hating commence)

 

1. I have never, ever seen any MMO force people to be 'gimped' if they chose dual-specs

2. No AC can be a tank, healer AND significant DPS

3. 'I want you to gimp people so I can feel special' hasn't really worked for any MMO

[Carnerous]

I said this in one of the other many threads about adding a dual spec, so here I go again. I will allow Bioware to implement a dual spec tool into the game if, and only if, it hinders you in a way for using it. You now have the ability to learn the ways of two different paths, but with reduced stats or reduced skill power or something. I say this because of Bioware's whole philosophy of "Coices Matter". If you have learned two different fighting styles over just one, you will be hindered in both. "Jack of all trades, master of none" mentality. (Now let the hating commence)

 

You act like this game is really hard, but it isnt. Learning another class is a matter of hours if u have a functional brain.

[Calei]

Selfish?

 

hardly...I'm a dedicated healer, I spend my time leveling up as a healer, earning my stripes along the way, then have to compete with 50,000 DPSers that can't find a group for DPS, so they just jump the fence and take all the group roles as healers, that they never had to earned because they took the fast road of DPSing to level.

 

sorry, but it sounds a hell of a lot like the "I want my cake, and eat it too" group are the selfish ones.

 

You want to play a healer, earn it...level with it...otherwise play your damn DPSer like you chose to.

 

and to the guys saying if you don't want it don't use it...it doesn't affect you anyhow...as you can see, it does affect people even if they chose not to use it...you are just simply full of it, and really don't grasp how it affects people that don't want it.

 

I can play the healer role without being a healer spec.

 

In terms of efficiency however, a dual spec would allow me to be a more effective healer and provide me with the tools to carry a group of inexperienced players while patching up thier mistakes.

 

Dual specs provides far more benefits to MMO's than you can think of.

 

The real problem is the Tank/Healer/DPS trinity design model. Since Bioware was too lazy to design a more efficient system, the community has to deal with issues such as tank shortage and healer shortage due to thier lack of forsight.

[Kemosobe]

I think they failed to implement a lot of things due tot he fact so many people simply wanted the game to be released. They had to perform a sort of 'feature triage'

 

A few things they failed to add that are, arguably, standard in MMOs now are: guild banks, dual-specs, UI customization and armor colormatching/dyes

 

All of these things can be added post-release via patches, so releasing the game as-is made more sense than peeving off the community and risking notable financial losses by delaying the game any further

 

Or they did not add them because of this;

 

The game already is working as intended. It is an MMO. There are very certain things an MMO needs to be an MMO. Things like company run servers, ability for thousands of people per server, "levels" (in w/e way the game implements them. such as EVE's skills), etc.

 

No where in the definition of an MMO is there required to be a dual spec tool, or LFG tool, or w/e tool you want. By this logic, every single FPS should have re-bounding health or it isn't a FPS.

 

Only very small concepts are needed for a game to be considered in that genre of games. Any tools the developer decides to add (or in this case, not add) is all developer descretion and you just have to either suck it up or not play the game.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Kemosobe

[Varghjerta]

Actually i dont see the point of having talent point aswell then just bascily remove them all and let people choose from lv ten

 

Healer and DPS

or

Tank or DPS

 

And then we all can be the same mush of grey all of us MMMMM Fun

 

But i am not surprised that so many want dual specc Lol most people are complaining over that the mount is to expensive aswell....

Edited December 28, 2011 by Varghjerta

[GraunKrynn]

Eh don't need dual spec. Got by for years and years in WoW without it.

[GhostPenguin]

Please do NOT add dual spec. I will make the game shorter. As is there are only 8 classes per side, with a few tweaks here and there. If someone wants to make a healer, and go all the way with it they should be rewarded by being a true loved healer from level 10 on. If someone else wants to make a caster, then change because they leveled easy instead of being a healer all the way.....they should have to pay large credits for this. Dual spec made the Druid in wow a "popular" class because now people could be a tree and a boom chicken. It made my Resto that I leveled all the way from 20(?) now just an after though. I grinned hard as a healer, and other should to to see the difference.

 

And don't say just make dual spec cost a lot.....thanks to slicing, there is WAY to much money in ecconemy now. If....and I mean IF this is ever added, it should be YEARS into the game. Just like WOW was. I want this game to last a long time, and things like this lesson the length of the game.

[Kaarnus]

I'm against it.

 

Makes people a bit too jack of all trades and looses the idea and concept of someone's "role" or even "class".

 

Pvp vs pve - I'm not fussed, I've found I'll heal just as well in either case. But I'm not a fan of people chopping and changing just to get in a group.

 

 

Dual spec has diluted the playing experience more than it has enhanced it in my experience.

 

Oh and I have yet to see anyone needing on gear for a companion over a player. It's counter intuitive anyway as when in full groups and at 50 companions are probs limited to crew skill tasks. Ridiculous argument.

 

Anyway, I'm against it. Everyone I know plays the spec they want to play, not what spec they think people will want in order to get groups.