Stuns are a little op

[Ghost_Spectre]

The idea of CC is to stop something. It is not to shut someone down so completely that you win by default.

 

That is lazy playing and lazy coding.

 

Spot on. CC's went from being tactic to a mainstay attack so people can kill rather than use it to prevent something from happening. CC's are a crutch for most. I blame the 'Microwave Generation' for that. They have to have it now!

 

As it was mentioned, a buff for stun immunity after using the CC breaker would go a long way in preventing the Stealther's cheap tricks in taking a node or preventing a node from being taken. They'd be forced to have to deal with someone that may take them down. Can't have that...it would make them work for something from a challenge.

[Jammer]

I believe that reducing dependency on CCs would not take anything away from competitive teams. It would probably make it more challenging and fun at the same time. It would require more team coordination.

 

Right now it seems the most common tactic is stun -> focus fire -> dead -> repeat. So it's essentially stun and unload everything. If stuns were less prominent, it would shift the skill to be more about timing. For example, holding back you big burst till after the target has used their defensive cool downs. And being more coordinated when focusing.

 

So overall it would be equally or more challenging for competitive teams. And be more fun for everyone.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Jammer

[Zoom_VI]

I concur.

 

Furthermore, it would be hilarious to see players actually having to hit something that can hit back.

 

Oh, they'll hide behind the notion that stuns are REQUIRED to stay as is for Ranked but..

• They'd be wrong
  
• Who plays that anyway? Not many people.
  

 

The idea of CC is to stop something. It is not to shut someone down so completely that you win by default.

 

That is lazy playing and lazy coding.

 

I would love to hear how you plan on killing a tank and a healer without using CC.

[Jammer]

I would love to hear how you plan on killing a tank and a healer without using CC.

 

There would probably have to be some tweaking to the tank + healer mechanics. Because some war zones, void star for example, are timed. If it is too difficult to kill this duo, then a typical void star might not go past the first door.

 

First thing to test would be to remove some or all of the damage reduction gained from guarding another playing. And experiment with the damage redirection. This would not nerf the classes individually.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Jammer

[Zoom_VI]

First thing to test would be to remove some or all of the damage reduction gained from guarding another playing. And experiment with the damage redirection. This would not nerf the classes individually.

 

You do realize that guard is the *only* reason to ever use a tank in PvP right? If it wasn't for guard all three of the tank specs would be less viable than dps operatives.

[Adovir]

You do realize that guard is the *only* reason to ever use a tank in PvP right? If it wasn't for guard all three of the tank specs would be less viable than dps operatives.

 

Zoom, raansu don't bother with idiots they won't learn... One of them thinks that stuns and mezzes are the same thing

[Jammer]

You do realize that guard is the *only* reason to ever use a tank in PvP right? If it wasn't for guard all three of the tank specs would be less viable than dps operatives.

 

I never said get rid of guard or make it useless. But that if reducing stuns or increasing time to kill broke tank + healer to tweak the mechanics of how they work together.

[Raansu]

I never said get rid of guard or make it useless. But that if reducing stuns or increasing time to kill broke tank + healer to tweak the mechanics of how they work together.

 

Time to kill is only a problem in regs, and even then its not really a problem because regs dont matter. In ranked matches the fights tend to last several minutes and thats with the healer being CC'd/interrupted all the time. CC's being cleanseable in 3.0 is going to have a very negative impact in ranked, especially if it works on hardstun and its going to mean nothing in regs because pugs dont cleanse anyways (back to the fact that regs dont matter.)

 

Losing in a reg match is whatever because its just a reg match. Get your free comms and move on to the next queue. Ranked has a real impact with rating. That's why regs dont matter and why the game is balanced around ranked and not the silly reg players that complain when they lose to a 4v1 because they were CC'd (face it, you would have died regardless. Even if you could "fight back" at best you would do is swing one time before you get blown up.)

Edited October 14, 2014 by Raansu

[Zoom_VI]

I never said get rid of guard or make it useless. But that if reducing stuns or increasing time to kill broke tank + healer to tweak the mechanics of how they work together.

 

If you reduced the effectiveness of guard and other defensive tactics so that CC is no longer required to kill in competitive PvP, then teams would still be better served another dps in the tank slot so you can burn the other team harder. And of course in such a situation a healer could never really do much in that situation, which means teams would likely be better off taking a dps in the healer slot aswell, and team ranked would likely turn into a 4v4 dps burn.

[Jammer]

Time to kill is only a problem in regs, and even then its not really a problem because regs dont matter. In ranked matches the fights tend to last several minutes and thats with the healer being CC'd/interrupted all the time. CC's being cleanseable in 3.0 is going to have a very negative impact in ranked, especially if it works on hardstun and its going to mean nothing in regs because pugs dont cleanse anyways (back to the fact that regs dont matter.)

 

Losing in a reg match is whatever because its just a reg match. Get your free comms and move on to the next queue. Ranked has a real impact with rating. That's why regs dont matter and why the game is balanced around ranked and not the silly reg players that complain when they lose to a 4v1 because they were CC'd (face it, you would have died regardless. Even if you could "fight back" at best you would do is swing one time before you get blown up.)

 

There has to be a way to reduce stuns while keeping ranked in balance. Pvp in this game appears to be dying. War zones pop much less frequently and when they do its usually the same people. The most common complaint I have and that I hear from others is that its a stun fest. So I think keeping things the way they are out of fear of creating imbalance in ranked war zones is a bad idea for the longevity of the game.

[Raansu]

There has to be a way to reduce stuns while keeping ranked in balance. Pvp in this game appears to be dying. War zones pop much less frequently and when they do its usually the same people. The most common complaint I have and that I hear from others is that its a stun fest. So I think keeping things the way they are out of fear of creating imbalance in ranked war zones is a bad idea for the longevity of the game.

 

Why? Stuns don't need to be reduced. Resolve needs to be fixed, but stuns themselves are not a real issue. Reality is the CC's in this game are actually incredibly light in comparison to the dozen other MMO's out there. WoW players in particular would just laugh at you.

 

The only time "stun locking" is a thing in this game is when people go off on their own and get focused down by 3+ enemies in a regs match. Hard stuns are only 4 seconds. Anything longer than that is a soft stun which breaks on damage and healers can already cleanse those.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Raansu

[Jammer]

Why? Stuns don't need to be reduced. Resolve needs to be fixed, but stuns themselves are not a real issue. Reality is the CC's in this game are actually incredibly light in comparison to the dozen other MMO's out there. WoW players in particular would just laugh at you.

 

The only time "stun locking" is a thing in this game is when people go off on their own and get focused down by 3+ enemies in a regs match. Hard stuns are only 4 seconds. Anything longer than that is a soft stun which breaks on damage and healers can already cleanse those.

 

How do you suggest they fix resolve? I would like it to decay slower for one.

[Raansu]

How do you suggest they fix resolve? I would like it to decay slower for one.

 

By going back to its pre 1.4 design where it actually filled up properly. Post 1.4 they changed resolve to be "noob" friendly. Basically people were just stunning without really thinking so now when a stun is applied immediately after a previous stun it doesn't give the full resolve points that stun would have given whereas pre 1.4 regardless CC filled the same amount no matter what, typically two stuns and it was full resolve.

[Zoom_VI]

By going back to its pre 1.4 design where it actually filled up properly. Post 1.4 they changed resolve to be "noob" friendly. Basically people were just stunning without really thinking so now when a stun is applied immediately after a previous stun it doesn't give the full resolve points that stun would have given whereas pre 1.4 regardless CC filled the same amount no matter what, typically two stuns and it was full resolve.

 

lolwut, the 1.4 design made no sense.

 

A target shouldn't be getting the equivalent of 8 seconds of resolve if it was only stunned for 5 seconds. Players shouldn't be penalized because some other derp had to hit the CC button a second after you.

 

The current system is fine, it gives you resolve for the amount of time you are stunned, the old system gave resolve for no reason.

[Raansu]

lolwut, the 1.4 design made no sense.

 

A target shouldn't be getting the equivalent of 8 seconds of resolve if it was only stunned for 5 seconds. Players shouldn't be penalized because some other derp had to hit the CC button a second after you.

 

The current system is fine, it gives you resolve for the amount of time you are stunned, the old system gave resolve for no reason.

 

That's the point....The old system gave resolve based on the stun. Didn't matter if you were already stunned. The new system is noob friendly because it allows people to spam with ZERO repercussions. The old system actually made you pay attention.

[Zoom_VI]

That's the point....The old system gave resolve based on the stun. Didn't matter if you were already stunned. The new system is noob friendly because it allows people to spam with ZERO repercussions. The old system actually made you pay attention.

 

It not n00b friendly, throwing a stun at someone who is already stunned is still a penalty for the guy who just wasted his stun. However it doesn't penalize everyone else. Why should I be penalized because someone else was being a derp?

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

lolwut, the 1.4 design made no sense.

 

A target shouldn't be getting the equivalent of 8 seconds of resolve if it was only stunned for 5 seconds. Players shouldn't be penalized because some other derp had to hit the CC button a second after you.

 

The current system is fine, it gives you resolve for the amount of time you are stunned, the old system gave resolve for no reason.

 

The current system is crappy, ive had about 5 situations where people CC'd me (Flashbang, Carbonize, and Electrocute) while i was in Full Resolve (whitebarred) with each of those abilities (not all at the same time, different situations) I prepose this change

 

Resolve: Only Active when Flagged for PvP. When Stunned you gain One Stack of Heightened Resolve, at Five Stacks of Heightened Resolve you gain the Heightened Resolve Buff for 10 Seconds, which provides full Immunity to all Croud Controlling effects (Stuns, Mezzes, Roots, Snares, Slows, and Physics) when Heightened Resolve ends, you gain Lowered Resolve, which makes it so you cannot gain stacks of Heightened Resolve for 25 Seconds.

 

That would make it balanced, and work... Bioware already has the Boss Immunity buff that 100% works, so just give players that when they gain Heightened Resolve, Bioware has proven that they can work well with Buffs and Debuffs, but with the current Resolve system being so buggy... they need to change to a Buff/Debuff for Resolve.

[Raansu]

It not n00b friendly, throwing a stun at someone who is already stunned is still a penalty for the guy who just wasted his stun. However it doesn't penalize everyone else. Why should I be penalized because someone else was being a derp?

 

Why should the player being stunned be penalized for a terrible resolve system? The argument goes both ways here. Fact is, pre 1.4 resolve was leagues better than what we have now. Your problem is you're taking regs into account which you shouldn't be doing. Pugs are pugs, they do stupid crap all the time. You cant balance the game and make an account for pugs being stupid because then you end up with how resolve works now....which is absolutely terrible.

[Raansu]

with the current Resolve system being so buggy... they need to change to a Buff/Debuff for Resolve.

 

Resolve isn't buggy....

[PlagaNerezza]

Even in just a 4 man, you can be stunned and killed for 3/4 of your health and you can't do anything about it.

 

I suppose it's fun to global people and I've done it myself which comes down to a coordinated team . But it might be just a bit too op.

 

You can keep the stuns and everything the same, maybe just add about 10% more health to everyone.

 

Working as intended.

[Volxen]

By going back to its pre 1.4 design where it actually filled up properly. Post 1.4 they changed resolve to be "noob" friendly. Basically people were just stunning without really thinking so now when a stun is applied immediately after a previous stun it doesn't give the full resolve points that stun would have given whereas pre 1.4 regardless CC filled the same amount no matter what, typically two stuns and it was full resolve.

 

They should change that, yes, but the real problem has always been that resolve decays way, way too fast. It's actually possible to be hard stunned for 11 consecutive seconds before your white barred. When you get up to 1000 resolve, you should have CC immunity for 10 seconds. With the current system, it seems to start decaying after 1 or 2 seconds, at which point you can be hard stunned again. It should not be possible to be hard stunned for more than 8 consecutive seconds, and at this point you should have a full 10 seconds of CC immunity.

[Zoom_VI]

With the current system, it seems to start decaying after 1 or 2 seconds, at which point you can be hard stunned again.

 

this is false. Your immunity lasts until the bar completely empties which is a lot longer than 2 seconds.

[maverickmatt]

this is false. Your immunity lasts until the bar completely empties which is a lot longer than 2 seconds.

 

That's exactly what he said.

 

Truth be told, most times resolve decays before you leave spawn.

 

 

I've said before that there is a balance to be had between CC, HP, and TTK. For a while it was fine but TTK has dropped dramatically with relatively little movement by the other parts of this equation. The result is what you see now.

 

There are several ways to begin rectifying this, not the least of which is changing CC. The length of stuns has never been addressed and for the most part they have been left alone since launch. I'm fairly positive that an HP boost is coming but I doubt that it's going to be enough to rebalance this.

[MsMalice]

IMO everyone should take 40-50% less damage while hardstunned, maybe then nubs will learn to use their stuns more strategically instead of handing them out like free candy.

[Zoom_VI]

The length of stuns has never been addressed and for the most part they have been left alone since launch.

 

The longest hardstun is 4 seconds in duration, all CC effects consume a GCD. This means out of that 4 second stun the attacker only gets to utilize 2.5 seconds of it, or exactly two abilities.