Bolstered Mods vs. Obroan

[Evolixe]

If bolster is "working as intended", at least no one needs to worry about any more new pvp gear grinds that the devs will likely come out with. Just find some random trash from the latest flashpoint and you're good to go for rated pvp in under 15 minutes!

 

Come on Wildstar!

 

I just wish that was true.. being able to aquire BiS gear for PvP in a matter of little effort and 2 hours time.

 

God that would be paradise.

 

**** off with your Wildstar.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Evolixe

[CrazyOldMystic]

If bolstered mods are that close to obroan, and yes I understand you sacrifice some stats to get that upper number over obroan, then that means its beating the crap out of teir one pvp gear. If thats the case then whats the point to tier one pvp gear. Or any mod above 46? It almost sounds to me as though your trying to turn pvp into a must have pve mods that are 46. I grind out tier one, I dont want some person, getting bolstered with 46 mods and hitting Obroan level of damage. You are pretty much saying tier one is worthless. At least thats the way i am understanding this. Then again i could wrong. I am sure someone will quote that could be wrong portion and say you are wrong with out any explanation, other then cave man language you bad.

 

Op or anyone could you answer me a question off topic. I was looking for that blog about 2.7, did not see it in the community blog section of the forums. Sense this is the end of the first official season are they planning on wiping any comms we may have at the end of season one. Referring to ranked comms. Lastly are they changing up the gear? Or is this the same gear for season two. I hope it is but thats me.

Edited February 19, 2014 by CrazyOldMystic

[L-RANDLE]

Curious as to why you bothered checking ravage against 46s. Need to demonstrate how it affects a standard tech/force attack.

 

I did this awhile back when people were first saying 46 was an exploit. Even on Force/Tech its not much of an issue and weapon based (whites), don't do it...

 

Ask and you shall receive!

 

RAV:

Obroan= 8088

66/69/58= 8088

46/46/46= 6430

 

SCREAM:

Obroan= 3197

66/69/58= 3236

46/46/46= 3267

 

Surge is around 75% and crit around 18% for all.

So for me, 66/69/58 is BiS... Not sure about 69/63/61 though, and I ain't raiding, or paying to see it... Methinks 46/46/46 is not much of an exploit unless you are littered with Force/Tech attacks, but still to be on par with BiS Obroan... /Facepalm

[Tater-Dave]

So you are ok with the fact that i worked up 3500 RANKED comms and now 45 blues are better - and with the right blue mods they are better no gap better to all stats - if you are ok with this than you Hate your players. Telling me that 3500 Ranked comms is worth nothing to you but you have built a game that is totally gear grinding based is just the most frustrating thing i have ever read.

 

Well i'm ok with you all losing your jobs and this game failing. How do you feel about that statement does that make you feel OK.

 

If you want everyone to be even in pvp than just make everyone's stats the same per class or spec when the enter pvp and quit jerking us around - im fine with same stats and fair - but not AFTER you made me earn the gear

[MidichIorian]

And just when you think they're on top of something they once again show us that they've missed the mark by a few lightyears .

 

Like others already have stated, this isnt about full sets. Basically every thread lately has been on the topic of MH and OH. So how does BW manage to miss out on that part when everyone els is aware? If I apporached my job the way you people do I'd be fired and prosecuted (because people would die in my line of duty).

 

Also, the intention is to bolster PvE gear within 5 % of stock Obroan? So what's the intention with Conq, to be worse than bolster? Why add a "must tier" that is worse than bolster? And isnt it a bit ironic that they, BW, persist on putting us within 5 % in PvP when they can't do it with people in the same tier in PvE?

Edited February 19, 2014 by MidichIorian

[eartharioch]

Needless grinds are needless. Lets just be done with PvP gear all together. 100% PvP gear has never been BiS anyway..

 

Exactly. Have Bolster raise low end gear up to a minimum floor and cap non-raid PVE gear at (something like 72P now), have all the "horizontal progression" for raids use special Operations bonuses that only apply in operations.

[Rilok_Singz]

I miss swg where crafter's actually made the weapons, gear, and sh*t. It was all about how good the resources they got, buffs they received, and how much luck they had in rolls the determined how good your armor and weapons were. also you could use 1 set of gear for pvp and pve making it all come down to player skill. didn't have issues like this tbh.

[Rasen]

Oooh I'm so excited over this thread! This might be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. PvP gear should not exist in the game. Get rid of it and focus less on stats and more on skills. Those who do PvP frequently gain access to a larger variety of different looks for gear. All PvP themed. Add PvP reputation. Have PvP versions of our skill trees so that you don't have to keep respeccing. Have abilities function differently in PvP.

 

Recruit gear was terrible and was probably the worst PvP was ever at for this game. Bolster is so much better, but for those minmaxing it is terrible due to the weird itemization. By having all the stats at about the same level it is less about getting higher tiers of gear and more about optimizing yourself with the right load out of stats and honing your class' abilities. Even the playing field and PvP will be more visceral and more intense than ever before. This is what we do now with 78 gear in PvE. Rearranging our mods so that we have the stats we want.

 

Just find a way to reward PvP players for playing a lot without giving them an edge and the game will be better off. PvP should only ever be about skill not gear. It is why shooters reign supreme when it comes to PvP these days.

[Loki_]

Upon skimming this thread i get the following impression..

 

Your dev team skimmed the issue tested a few combo's, didnt bother with ones like 46/46/44 or 69/63/61 so you did not see the real issue and decided you cant be bothered to fix it.

 

Oh and you did not say a word about blue 53 implants either.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Loki_

[Puissant]

For the record running 46-46-44 in my main hand and off hand, gives me more stats in everything with out sacrificing anything. More primary, crit, crit multiplier, power, health and even more alacrity and accuracy because of the bolster.

 

It's better than 69-61-61 and obroan. Obroan is actually the worst. And I'm running 54 crafted purple implants for more power and a bit less endurance. Everything bolsters to 2018.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Puissant

[Dingoo]

A pvp stat in the first place has in most games been a hassle and cause multiple issues, this game was no exception.

Bolster works descent in low level pvp due to this fact, still some issues there due to other issues but that's a diff story. At the moment its all fubar with 55 bolster, best be to totally remove it or remove the expertise stat from the equation completely... just make gear be available from warzone comms or operation/flashpoint comms.. of course with a adjustment in prices to reflect it accordingly.

 

Also saying more or less that "this is working as intended" must be the laugh of the week. yeah in one view on paper and calculators it works as intended but in the game its considered a joke on the players behalf.

[JediMasterSLC]

@Lethality sniper: Testing one spec of one class is not sufficient. Different classes/specs have different scaling coefficients, percentages of damage that is white/yellow, etc. Considering that the consensus within the community is that blue 46s mods in your weapon/offhands give superior damage/healing scaling for yellow dmg abilities, but not white damage abilities, a spec that only utilizes yellow damage (sage/sorc) should certainly have been "tested" as well.

 

@0.06% more alacrity: Alacrity is only useful in much larger increments (around 1%), otherwise cast time does not decrease and energy regen does not increase. 0.06% alacrity literally does nothing.

 

@6.22% more crit: Any class/spec that gets enough crit rating in their gear to increase their crit chance by that much is gimping themselves. On that subject, when is that buff to crit rating coming??

 

Also, warzones and arenas are not duels. When given the opportunity to increase your damage at the cost of a little endurance, you should usually take it (this is why the mods that have more power+main stat than default mods- but less endurance- are considered "min/maxed" and superior). It is not a zero sum trade off between damage and survivability as Tait's post suggests. Also, to my knowledge, everyone who uses blue 46s claims to MORE endurance AND more yellow damage than they get with obroan. So....

 

Also, the fact that there is even a debate as to which is better (obroan, blue 46s, 69/66/61s or whatever it is, or anything else) is a problem. People who grind hundreds of warzones to get their obroan gear should not be asking themselves whether or not this gear- which they spent so much time to get- is even better than gear you can buy with planetary comms before you are even level 55. There should be no potential for debate: designated pvp gear should be unquestionably better than any other gear. Not very significantly better, but unquestionably better. Otherwise, there is really no point in designating pvp specific gear at all.

Edited February 19, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[Ren_simp]

I think obroan vs pve mods bolster etc is irrelevant as they are pretty close and skill does prevail even though a lot if people have this unfounded idea that pvpers love their gear gaps I have several toons in full obroan and 2 doing the pve bolster with all the variables in pvp the difference is barely noticeable but with that said to have this system implemented within a ranked setting is a joke and reflects Poorly on the people directing this game

 

You guys (bioware devs) need to start fresh with season 2 give out obroan for free at the beginning of the season

Add a new tier of gear only obtainable through ranked no comms conversion and remove bolster from ranked pvp.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Ren_simp

[idnewton]

Hi Everyone,

 

Over the past few weeks, we have been looking into your reports of lower level mods giving higher stats with bolster than Obroan gear. To test this, we checked the relative power of multiple gear sets against each other, which provides us with our “power differential” between players. We are currently shooting for about a 7% gap between bolstering and default Obroan mods, if you assume the same level of augments.

 

That said, we tested with a Lethality Sniper and found that there is about a 5% differential between Obroan and the bolstered lower level blue mods. This is with default Obroan mods, so there is some customization potential in the PvP gear that would further improve the gap. Both gear sets included Augments and a Power Crystal. Your results may vary depending on your class and specialization.

 

Bolster tends to favor pure power as a stat, so the lower blue mods WILL show higher bonus damage values vs default Obroan, which, in turn, grants slightly higher base damages on abilities at the sacrifice of other ratings and endurance. For example, with default Obroan, the Explosive Probe tooltip states it maxes at 3876 damage, while with the blue mods and bolster it tops out at 3915. However, Obroan has better alacrity (+0.06%), crit (+6.22%), and health (+343). In the end (and in a perfect rotation environment), the player wearing Obroan will win a duel.

 

So what we’re seeing is that, yes, if you’re willing to sacrifice other stats for damage output, these mods can be optimal for your play style. This is not our final design implementation and we are going to continue looking at the balance between default Obroan and bolster. However, we are currently okay with where it is, even being a bit less than the target. Do note that we are aware of an issue regarding Main Hand and Off-Hand gear when it comes to Expertise crystals vs. stat crystals, and are working on a solution. I don’t currently have an ETA for you, but will update you as I know more.

 

-tw

 

Maybe it's just me, but I'm pretty sure the stat and output difference between Conqueror and Obroan is more than 7%. So what you're telling me is that garbage lowbie mods are intended to be better than full Conqueror gear? W-what?

[Glower]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm pretty sure the stat and output difference between Conqueror and Obroan is more than 7%. So what you're telling me is that garbage lowbie mods are intended to be better than full Conqueror gear? W-what?

 

Broken as intended.

or

"A: They’d love to do that at some point, but technically very challenging and unlikely to happen in the near future."

[retry]

Good Job for taking a sniper as representiv for this bug rofl.

 

What about a healer? Noobs

[Loki_]

Good Job for taking a sniper as representative for this bug rofl.

 

What about a healer? Noobs

 

Don't you know that devs only play snipers ? hence all 3 sniper trees got super buffed when 2.0 landed and PT dps got nurfed into the ground at the same time smash stacks were dropped to 3 from 4.

 

Some noob sniper dev was sick of getting smashed and rail shotted !

[Pistols]

If bolster is "working as intended", at least no one needs to worry about any more new pvp gear grinds that the devs will likely come out with. Just find some random trash from the latest flashpoint and you're good to go for rated pvp in under 15 minutes!

 

Come on Wildstar!

 

Pretty much what others are scratching their heads over. Why even remotely waste time grinding the most expensive parts of the best gear if Blue 46's (and other combos) are nearly on par? It makes no frackin sense.

 

I miss swg where crafter's actually made the weapons, gear, and sh*t. It was all about how good the resources they got, buffs they received, and how much luck they had in rolls the determined how good your armor and weapons were. also you could use 1 set of gear for pvp and pve making it all come down to player skill. didn't have issues like this tbh.

 

At this point, I would agree. Since we don't have anyone working in this game that is competent of making Bolster work as intended, might as well scratch out the grind, and let players craft what they would want.

 

My cynical side?

To keep hardcore PvP players chasin' the carrot, while still being "casual friendly". You cant tell players the truth and still have PvP gear in game. It really sucks my initial subjective observations, when they removed EXP for my WH/EWH gear, were true.

 

Needless grinds are needless. Lets just be done with PvP gear all together. 100% PvP gear has never been BiS anyway..

 

Yeah I feel that. I wish they had the testies fortitude to just come out and say "look, we tried to make this work, but it just isn't so were scratching this for x,y,z". Most would be fine with it, but to actually come into this thread, and tell people "46's working as intended" just reinforces my stance that this team is laughable at best. Perhaps they should outsource.

[cashogy_reborn]

Just...LOL

 

This. The ignorance in all of the dev chatter about bolster is pretty shocking.

 

I could go on about this for pages probably, but I think most of what I want to say has already been said.

 

The fact that the devs do a couple of tests with one class, and then call it a day, is baffling to me. There are specs that are more dependent on secondary modifiers than other, specs that are tied more to tech/force than ranged/melee, etc etc. Again and again this dev team has shown to be incredibly narrow minded, and this is just another example of that. "This one instance checks out, so everything else must be fine as well". /facepalm.

 

Its as if they dont actually play this game at all, and have no idea what the current metas are. And as more of this type of thing happens, the more I start believing that that rash assumption has more shreds of truth than I had initially thought.

Edited February 19, 2014 by cashogy_reborn

[Pistols]

This. The ignorance in all of the dev chatter about bolster is pretty shocking.

 

I could go on about this for pages probably, but I think most of what I want to say has already been said.

 

The fact that the devs do a couple of tests with one class, and then call it a day, is baffling to me. There are specs that are more dependent on secondary modifiers than other, specs that are tied more to tech/force than ranged/melee, etc etc. Again and again this dev team has shown to be incredibly narrow minded, and this is just another example of that. "This one instance checks out, so everything else must be fine as well". /facepalm.

 

Its as if they dont actually play this game at all, and have no idea what the current metas are. And as more of this type of thing happens, the more I start believing that that rash assumption has more shreds of truth than I had initially thought.

 

Man, SWG doesn't look too bad now.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

This kind of approach actually says to me that the devs do not actually give a monkeys about pvp and the limited progression therein.

 

It is actually a very bad joke that low level pve gear can trump pvp gear in any pvp circumstance whatsoever. The fact that they have to test to check these things after bolster being in the game for so long, rather than actually knowing how their own game works, beggars belief.

 

Personally, it simply reinforces my belief that come April, I will be enjoying pastures new once more.

 

No matter how bad it gets, it really cannot be any worse than this. It might well be that MMOs are yesterdays genre for me, have been playing them since Ultima, maybe a time for a change. The Star Wars IP cannot hold people to it on name alone I am afraid.

Edited February 19, 2014 by ThorgrimLutgen

[Poox]

hello april!

 

p.s.: my tipp switch off the bolster ( till its fixed ) and give us back the recruitment gear

Edited February 20, 2014 by Poox

[stefanbs]

thank you devs i' m

from this game . You don t want too see problem or u think we are so stupiud?? Bolster , wPVP , and ranked arenas (the biggest joke ) . You lose huge potential. cya

[Spieljunge]

Because Ravage is part of his white damage. And his white damage gets a pretty damn big blow to the head.

 

Force/Tech will hit slightly harder, but by no means make up for the loss in white.

 

This is why 46's work fine as entrygear, but obroan WILL be your preferred layout as any class that gets core damage from white attacks.

 

 

 

Bolster was never solely "supposed" to help PvE players. But also new entries of level 55 players with PvP in their minds.

 

Not so easy dude,

 

except Assassins, mid tree Marauders + Juggs and Marksman Sniper most skill trees causes force or tech dmg.

 

Try some sing special like MH: 69 hilt, 63 mod, 61 + 41 AP Crystal, Off-hand 45

[Jherad]

Because Ravage is part of his white damage. And his white damage gets a pretty damn big blow to the head.

 

Force/Tech will hit slightly harder, but by no means make up for the loss in white.

 

This is why 46's work fine as entrygear, but obroan WILL be your preferred layout as any class that gets core damage from white attacks.

 

 

 

Bolster was never solely "supposed" to help PvE players. But also new entries of level 55 players with PvP in their minds.

 

Bu tthat's just it. NOBODY(*) was saying 46s boost white damage.

 

69/63/61 (or similar) for general play, and 46s for force/tech based players (essentially sorcs and ops). Checking 46s against ravage just confirmed what we already know. Not sure why he bothered hence my question.

 

Edit: * - ok, nobody worth listening to

Edited February 19, 2014 by Jherad