Evolixe Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Not so easy dude, except Assassins, mid tree Marauders + Juggs and Marksman Sniper most skill trees causes force or tech dmg. Try some sing special like MH: 69 hilt, 63 mod, 61 + 41 AP Crystal, Off-hand 45 No thanks, im not that much of a tryhard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arutar Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) However, we are currently okay with where it is, even being a bit less than the target. Seriously? You are "okay" with it? Nevermind that conquerer gear is basicially useless right now. Nevermind the question if it is "fair" that a 5% ish gear progressions is really all PVP players can and should hope for. (Where is the PVE bolster for the casual PVE'r then?) What about CLASS BALANCE ? So, if your class and build favors power (i.e. if you play certain dps builds), you can get almost BIS PVP gear without much effort the second you hit lvl 55. If your spec/class favours other stats, you have to slowly grind yourself to a BIS set. Why is this "okay"? Admit it BIOWARE, you are still clueless when it comes to lvl 55 Bolster. This is the reason why you still havent give us a "mathy" explanation of the bolster though promised over half a year ago. Such math would simply further expose what a joke this system really is. Edit: Just to clarify, none of this can be blamed on you Tait, or any other community manager. I and I believe many others here are truely grateful for any yellow response we get. The only ones who should feel bad are the designers of this Bolster System, which has NEVER worked as intended on lvl 55 since its introduction last year. And judging the way this has been "handled" since then (i.e. only hasty fixes to address the most broken aspects of it) it is no surprise that many pvp players are looking for alternatives, considering taht on many servers there isnt even proper ranked pvp due to lack of cross server queues. Edited February 19, 2014 by Arutar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRN_Hawk Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Sad day for pvp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyOldMystic Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 So I guess I was not so crazy after all. Here is my ultimatum, you either tone down bolster to a tad below tier one pvp gear, and this includes all pve gear. Or I am gone comes april. In mmos I pvp allot, Ive done allot, and seen allot. I have never seen a mmo like this where crowd control is insanely out of control. Now you tell me I just wasted my time grinding tier one pvp gear. You already had a bit of an exodus from pvpers already. If you say this is where we want and hold to it. Guess want its not going to go over well with your pvpers at all, myself included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbgood Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) No thanks, im not that much of a tryhard. the fact that your personal preference is not to try as hard min-maxing as exitium does'nt mean his built is not superior than obroan. *selfowned* Edited February 19, 2014 by johnbgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadius-Fett Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I will certainly read it, but I can't promise a response - at least not right away. What I can promise to do is pass along your exact mods/equipment to the combat team so that they can recreate your gear and look at the numbers. This can certainly help us narrow down any bugs in the mods that weren't found during these past few weeks. How 'bout you stop wasting time on this, and rethink your impending nerfs before you kill dps operatives once and for all. We know the difference between Obroan and blues are minimal and skill will more than make up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalumais Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 "Your results may vary depending on your class and specialization." "these mods can be optimal for your play style". "This is not our final design implementation and we are going to continue looking at the balance between default Obroan and bolster. However, we are currently okay with where it is even being a bit less than the target." -tw So you are saying : - bolster affects class balance - "bolstered mods" can be optimal - current Bolster situation isn't intended but it's not a problem - you're considering that exploiting the broken bolster mechanics to gain an advantage over those that do not as normal Seriously how could you be "okay" with that? It's totaly absurd !! I hope you (Bioware) will remove bolster and replace it with "Recruit" Gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_I_T_H_L_O_R_D Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Sorry- but the current Bolster-system must be a big joke! I started PvP some months ago with my Sith-Assassin and have kept the Conqueror Hilt/Armor/Mod/Enhancements for my Sith-Sorcerer (for PvP beginning in the future, with that class). Now I'm reading, that I can put the Conqueror Hilt/Armor/Mod/Enhancements (which I have kept) into the garbage can because I am better off, with some PvE Hilt/Armor/Mod/Enhancements, which I have collected in the past in various Operations? So progress done in PvP is worthless, but progress in PvE is more valuable? And that is now the right intention for playing PvP? I don't think so. Edited February 19, 2014 by S_I_T_H_L_O_R_D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 the fact that your personal preference is not to try as hard min-maxing as exitium does'nt mean his built is not superior than obroan. *selfowned* I never claimed that it wasn't. In fact I know that it is. But that gain is so minimalistic and you have to actually do retardmode ops for it or have a load of cash. So I'll pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arutar Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 How 'bout you stop wasting time on this, and rethink your impending nerfs before you kill dps operatives once and for all. We know the difference between Obroan and blues are minimal and skill will more than make up for it. You appear to have posted in the wrong thread. There are plenty of Operative QQ threads, I am sure you will find one all by yourself. Anyway, we know the difference between ops before and after nerf are minimal and skill will more than make up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsofo Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) So you are ok with the fact that i worked up 3500 RANKED comms and now 45 blues are better - and with the right blue mods they are better no gap better to all stats - if you are ok with this than you Hate your players. Telling me that 3500 Ranked comms is worth nothing to you but you have built a game that is totally gear grinding based is just the most frustrating thing i have ever read. Well i'm ok with you all losing your jobs and this game failing. How do you feel about that statement does that make you feel OK. If you want everyone to be even in pvp than just make everyone's stats the same per class or spec when the enter pvp and quit jerking us around - im fine with same stats and fair - but not AFTER you made me earn the gear Sad to say but THIS ^^ And.. Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post Sensible solutions have been proposed time and time again. If you have max expertise, leave your stats alone. If you have less than max expertise on any given item, then for the duration of the WZ give that item generic tier1 pvp stats + whatever augments you have on it. There. Fixed. Done. PvEers can wear whatever they want, PvPers gets a slight advantage through minmaxing and upgrading to tier 2. End of story. No messing around trying to figure out combinations of mods, no worrying that you might have stepped over some dodgy threshold with PvE raid gear, no complaints about returning players wearing champion/battlemaster. Exactly what bolster was *supposed* to do originally. Edited February 19, 2014 by Monsofo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IzacRavus Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I normally never post anything in the forums, but i’m so pissed off about this, I have to make an exception: Just like NRN_Hawk stated, this is a sad day for pvp…what frickin’ sense does it make now to farm pvp gear, if blue crap is better or as good as the current conqueror/obroan?...this can impossibly be intended, so what this basically means imho, is that bw is too lazy/incompetent to fix this crap…it’s just another frickin’ massive “screw you” gesture aimed at pvp players…and now all these exploiting bolstermonkeys even feel their misbehavior is totally legit, because hey, it’s official now…low-lvl gear is as good as high-end gear…in what other game has it ever been like that?…epic fail…it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever!...I’ve been playing since release and I love this game, have ignored loads of crap that hasn’t been fixed (take huttball for example , it’s been buggy forever), but this is so out of hand…you should be ashamed bw… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafy_Bug Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Groovie baby! I can get my PVP relics for PVE without needing any PVP gear. Thanks BW! Lav iu! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Sad to say but THIS ^^ And.. I realize why so many are upset about Obroan weapons not being BiS, but I have them on my main and I am not upset as I just do not feel like I am at a severe disadvantage. My problem with bolster is that it does not make raid gear viable in warzones, and it is very easy for well meaning players to still come to warzones with gear that gets them destroyed. The second quot in the first post on this page has it right. Make bolster change any non-max expertise gear into a gear item with the same stats as a class appropriate piece of T1 PvP gear. T1 PvP gear still gives the advantage of a set bonus and customizing stats. T2 PvP gear is now BiS for PvP in every case, and all level 55's have viable gear in warzones increasing the probability of competitive matches. That would make me happy. Groovie baby! I can get my PVP relics for PVE without needing any PVP gear. Thanks BW! Lav iu! Players trying for this is why we see so many sub max-expertise players in warzones. Tweaking relics so the PvE relics are BiS for PvE could also be a good idea. Edited February 19, 2014 by Vodrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locksley Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Hi Everyone, Over the past few weeks, we have been looking into your reports of lower level mods giving higher stats with bolster than Obroan gear. To test this, we checked the relative power of multiple gear sets against each other, which provides us with our “power differential” between players. We are currently shooting for about a 7% gap between bolstering and default Obroan mods, if you assume the same level of augments. That said, we tested with a Lethality Sniper and found that there is about a 5% differential between Obroan and the bolstered lower level blue mods. This is with default Obroan mods, so there is some customization potential in the PvP gear that would further improve the gap. Both gear sets included Augments and a Power Crystal. Your results may vary depending on your class and specialization. Bolster tends to favor pure power as a stat, so the lower blue mods WILL show higher bonus damage values vs default Obroan, which, in turn, grants slightly higher base damages on abilities at the sacrifice of other ratings and endurance. For example, with default Obroan, the Explosive Probe tooltip states it maxes at 3876 damage, while with the blue mods and bolster it tops out at 3915. However, Obroan has better alacrity (+0.06%), crit (+6.22%), and health (+343). In the end (and in a perfect rotation environment), the player wearing Obroan will win a duel. So what we’re seeing is that, yes, if you’re willing to sacrifice other stats for damage output, these mods can be optimal for your play style. This is not our final design implementation and we are going to continue looking at the balance between default Obroan and bolster. However, we are currently okay with where it is, even being a bit less than the target. Do note that we are aware of an issue regarding Main Hand and Off-Hand gear when it comes to Expertise crystals vs. stat crystals, and are working on a solution. I don’t currently have an ETA for you, but will update you as I know more. -tw Well just imagine if the cartel market was a bit borked and people were getting the highest about of coins for buying the lowest, how fast would that be looked into and fixed? Why cant you bolster everyones gear so they can go do high end raids as soon as they hit 55? It would appear you guys have no grasp of how your game plays.... As for pvp you really think mass pvp is 8 v 8? I'm one of these that do grind my pvp gear as I do my pve gear and think that my pvp gear in pvp should be better than any pve gear and vice versa. How the hell do you keep managing to mess things up? do you have a department that sets bugs for another department to fix so you all have jobs?? I mean from day dot bolster was a laugh and its carrying on this way. You only added bolster for the non pluses in the first place with their crappy under level gear... theres no way on earth raid leaders would have under geared folk in raids yet pvp players have to suffer that... double standard!! Edited February 19, 2014 by Locksley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaitWatson Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Ok Tait, here it is. Thank you. I have passed all of this information along to Combat, and will let you know when I hear back. -tw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Players trying for this is why we see so many sub max-expertise players in warzones. Tweaking relics so the PvE relics are BiS for PvE could also be a good idea. They are. PvP relics are just easier to aquire than the BiS PvE ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 So the stats passed to the combat team are those which show that 46s, as we ALREADY knew, reduce white damage. Le sigh. At least they can take a look at the 69/*/* mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 So the stats passed to the combat team are those which show that 46s, as we ALREADY knew, reduce white damage. Le sigh. At least they can take a look at the 69/*/* mix. That's not the point Zach. Besides the fact that some people here didn't know, Tait's OP eluded to the fact that these issues were limited to 46 weapons and power crystals, which isn't the case. Just about all PvE versions, as long as they are not experiencing any bolster penalties, are better. They need to fully understand what we are talking about before they can answer the real question. Why is PvP gear still in the game if PvE gear + bolster exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusFTW Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) I Players trying for this is why we see so many sub max-expertise players in warzones. Tweaking relics so the PvE relics are BiS for PvE could also be a good idea. They already did this a few months ago. Back then the only difference between DF and Obroan was like +8 static power or something.. I was gutted cause i came back to pve after a break from it and i found that my pvp relics where really close to bis.. then they buffed the df ones and it became a big priority to get one since loads of people used the pvp relics and used rolls for other things in my grp... xD Then they gave DF ones a pretty significant buff then everyone was in a big rush to get the DF relics (which only drops from one boss... and everyone needed 2..).. obroan still the 2nd best thing though. Edited February 19, 2014 by AngusFTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 They are. PvP relics are just easier to aquire than the BiS PvE ones. PvP set bonuses could use some work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraaxusKun Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 How about you quit being morons and remove bolster from ranked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyDragonflame Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Bioware must make PvP relics completely dont works in FP/Operations areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thank you. I have passed all of this information along to Combat, and will let you know when I hear back. -tw No problem, but please reiterate that the community as a whole want answer on the "why"? Bolster and PvP gear has a lot of pragmatic issues like this, but the main issue is why does PvP gear exist in a bolster/capped EXP environment? They don't coexist very well and has wasted a lot of time and energy on your side and ours. If you guys want them to coexist, you need to rework PvP gear to provide EXP and EXP alone as a standalone PvP item, and remove the EXP cap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) That's not the point Zach. Besides the fact that some people here didn't know, Tait's OP eluded to the fact that these issues were limited to 46 weapons and power crystals, which isn't the case. Just about all PvE versions, as long as they are not experiencing any bolster penalties, are better. They need to fully understand what we are talking about before they can answer the real question. Why is PvP gear still in the game if PvE gear + bolster exist? I completely agree with you there - I'm just frustrated that their posts implied that 46s don't boost force/tech users either, and we haven't really shown that they do (in a pretty big way). I'd go so far as to say that for a sorc or op, equipping blue mods in MH/OH is virtually like a new tier of gear over Obroan. Edited February 19, 2014 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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