Keybinds vs clicking

[Heal-To-Full]

What do laws, wine glasses and ccs all have in common?

 

 

 

 

 

They all were meant to be broken.

 

[maverickmatt]

Looking at your examples, you are a horrible player. It has no relation to whether you click or not. It is conclusive in your screenshots that you are that idiot splash dotter that gets high damage but never actually kills anything.

 

Oh and in that huttball game, you were highest damage at the bottom of the board. Your team lost 6-0 and you had 0 objective points. Did you even attempt to kill the ball carrier, control mid, or heal anyone other than yourself?

 

You are a scrub because of how you play. Keybinding wouldn't make you any better. You are irrelevant.

 

 

.......

 

Is there a reason to toss around insults? Not at all. Some of us would like to keep the discussion civil, but it is near-impossible.

 

No, he played neither intelligently (... I'd venture to guess that the vast majority of SWTR players don't know HOW.. CoD heroes generally have no clue) or objectively, but afford him the same courtesy as is given to you. He posted a SS, complete with his name (and his server is Pot5...), which is more than some anony-heroes would ever do.

[ErikGW]

.......

 

Is there a reason to toss around insults? Not at all. Some of us would like to keep the discussion civil, but it is near-impossible.

 

No, he played neither intelligently (... I'd venture to guess that the vast majority of SWTR players don't know HOW.. CoD heroes generally have no clue) or objectively, but afford him the same courtesy as is given to you. He posted a SS, complete with his name (and his server is Pot5...), which is more than some anony-heroes would ever do.

 

Yep, too many of those players are why i left pot5.

 

I was a bit harsh, but look at what he gave us as examples. He was clearly that guy that is well-known as the weakest link in pug matches.

 

Every server has some guys that make the regulars cringe when they get stuck with them. This guy is one of those.

 

He took screenshots of his fails, then used them as examples of how he is great as a clicker.

 

I don't regret my harsh response. He had it coming. It might be positive for him to know the truth about his playing.

[Darth_Precursor]

Wow, this thread is one of the most enjoyable threads I have read in the past three weeks

 

I have a question here. I'm always looking and copying/imitating other people when it comes to PvPing, so I was very curious about your setup. Judging from your screenshot. Is my brain understanding it right, that you go with your left-hand over to PageUp(Right-side of the keyboard) while your hand is on the mouse? Or during combat you take your hand off the mouse and only use the Keyboard? Meaning you use Righ/Left-tArrow+A/D+Plus abilities? I'm ambidextrous so my brain hates any movements that cross the threshold of the other side(it's just me). Just curious as I may try some of it out... I'm still in the process of learning so muscle memory is not a problem.

 

I actually have a Razer Naga mouse, so the weird keys you see like page up/down or +/- are really numbers 1-12 or SHIFT+ 1-12 on my mouse.

[Sathid]

I play both depending upon the class some class's you can click and be just as viable imo.

 

Lightsaber class ala guard/jugg benefit a lot more when binding than say a Merc/Commando imo,at least that has been my experience.

[supermouthcml]

Yep, too many of those players are why i left pot5.

 

I was a bit harsh, but look at what he gave us as examples. He was clearly that guy that is well-known as the weakest link in pug matches.

 

Every server has some guys that make the regulars cringe when they get stuck with them. This guy is one of those.

 

He took screenshots of his fails, then used them as examples of how he is great as a clicker.

 

I don't regret my harsh response. He had it coming. It might be positive for him to know the truth about his playing.

 

First of all lets be perfectly clear. I posted those screenshots to prove that as a clicker you can still be a viable dps, those SS were not posted to showcase objectives and if ud like id be more than happy to post some SS of me with over 18K objective points, as for the kills i also have many SS of me with 24 or higher killing blows and 3 or more solo kills that i would be GLAD to post.

1. first, its called tab dotting not 'splash dotting', please for the love of god learn the names of the things you criticize someone about. Also if you actually look closely at my skills, in most of those SS i was hybrid telekinetics/balance spec, so the use of tab targetting is almost never implemented into my gameplay unless i am full balance spec.

2. you say i did nothing in the huttball match regarding objectives, this is true however i was solo and in a group of complete pugs against a pretty well established premade. my team gave up on the match very early on for obvious reasons.. we were getting stomped. so why would i try to be a one man army against another team when my team sits in its own spawn?

3. you say i am a bad player and that i am irrelevant but, last time i checked i had never heard of you or you numerous alts, or even your guild and believe me, i check these things far to often

please crawl back to the hole you spawned out of and remain there, where the more serious pvp'ers do not have to be bothered by you

And the truth about my gameplay? bahahahahahah

In other words, to generalize the meaning of this counter post... g..t..f..o

Edited September 20, 2013 by supermouthcml
cuz it was fun

[Gloomycakes]

To be honest, after reading through the thread I'm unsure I should still say it, but I think over-all that the people who recommend keybinds don't mean to act superior, insult you or harm you in any way, they just want to help, especially when it comes down to things as dynamic as PvP.

 

I've not experienced what it's like to click my abilities because somehow I'm a keybound-whore since birth (yay to BFs getting you into games to skip atleast 1 year of struggling with basics?) So for me it's very difficult to imagine how people pull certain things off without keybinding and I don't think I could pull it off. For that reason I think a lot of people would be better off getting out of their comfort zone and try keybinding more abilities, doesn't mean I think clickers can't perform, just makes me wonder how well they'd preform if they keybind a lot more.

 

I must say it took me a week to get out of my comfort zone when getting my naga, now I think it's a blessing and I can't do without. My whole keyboard was more or less bound to something, Naga gave me 36 (ctrl and alt are very easy to reach for me though I struggle with shift :s) free spots, so I now only use 1-5 and R with the control version for abilities on top of the Naga, rather than q-t (qwerty) a-g and z-b. I can't go back, but maybe that makes me the weaker player.

 

For helpful keybinders:

Time to sound dumb, when I rest my hand on the keyboard I rest the top of my pinkie on tab, other fingers on the number keys, my thumb somewhere between alt and spacebar (top rests on C) and I can press ctrl with my hand where my pinkie more or less starts (1 cm lower) are my hands too small to reach Shift properly or am I doing something horribly wrong? (Everyone seems to use Shift and it just makes me wonder and I'm afraid Ctrl and Alt will give me issues in other games.)

[supermouthcml]

In each of those screens you died 0 or 1 times with low healing done, which means you were not focused at all and barely even attacked. It is easy to click when you are freecasting and don't have to worry about moving.

 

In any type of game where you have to kite (read: every competitive game or arena) then your performance will be cut in half or more.

 

Nice try though.

 

not to be rude, but no. i actually do take damage, here is my damage taken from one of the SS listed

http://imgur.com/AI11SMg

Edited September 6, 2013 by supermouthcml
wrong link

[cashogy_reborn]

Claims how good he is... posts Screenshots of losing matches.

 

Seems legit.

[supermouthcml]

Claims how good he is... posts Screenshots of losing matches.

 

Seems legit.

 

lol allow me to say this one more time, the whole reason for posting these SS was to show that you can still be a viable dps as a clicker, however everyone is looking at the SS and judging them based on my teams performance and my contributions to the team, which is not wrong but it was not my intent. and if you look 3 out of 5 of the SS are infact wins

[chasinginfinity]

Clickimg is actually fine if you know where everything is... i actually keybinded because i was too lazy to keep moving my mouse all over the place, until i discovered i should be running with the mouse. so, I agree turning with the mouse is a must. *cough* something I have yet to master despite a level 50 who leveled as scrapper for a while until I couldn't do it anymore *cough* even for something like snipers...

[Crawelc]

Don't click, alt and ctrl are your friends you don't have to spend 100 bucks on a mouse to make yourself stop clicking. Admitting you have a problem is the first step.

[Liryc]

ok ok we all know the score but does it REALLY matter in the end how another player chooses to play, i mean some one who clicks instead of key binds, isn't affecting how you play is it?, or if some one is using WASD instead of mouse turning, once again it does not affect how you play, so why is their raging against it or people making snide comments about it?

 

yes we all know the advantages of key binds and mouse turning, but why belittle some one else for playing how they feel comfortable?

 

I use a mixture of key binds and clicks, and i rarely ever mouse turn in PVP simply because i'm more comfortable with how i play than how some one wants me to play.

 

For example i play a scoundrel DPS i know its unthinkable to see a scoundrel NOT healing in PVP, and guess what? I ENJOY being a scoundrel DPS in PVP even if i get face rolled , or lolsmashed what ever i am more comfortable in the Dirty Fighting skill tree than i am in sawbones, just because EVERYONE else say to me please don't sign up for PVP unless your sawbones spec. I just laugh and kindly tell them i play my characters how i want to play them, so don't try to tell me other wise, its not harming your character in any way.

 

My point is if someone prefers clicking and back peddling let them it's their play style don't try to force your own on them.

 

FYI: this is NOT a troll thread before anyone starts with the 1/10 crap

 

are you kidding with this comment?

 

back peddling and playing a dps when others think you shouldn't is NOOOOO where near the inefficiency of clicking EVERY attack

[Heal-To-Full]

lol allow me to say this one more time, the whole reason for posting these SS was to show that you can still be a viable dps as a clicker

A viable DPS is the one who sits in stealth at home line, pushes out a few sneakers, then does 50k damage - but does it to the ball carrier and passes the ball to an ally who proceeds to score.

 

There's no excuse for having 0 objective points. Simply contributing to killing a ball carrier will get you some. Simply grabbing the ball and passing it to an ally will.

[Heal-To-Full]

...when I rest my hand on the keyboard I rest the top of my pinkie on tab, other fingers on the number keys, my thumb somewhere between alt and spacebar (top rests on C) and I can press ctrl with my hand where my pinkie more or less starts (1 cm lower) are my hands too small to reach Shift properly or am I doing something horribly wrong? (Everyone seems to use Shift and it just makes me wonder and I'm afraid Ctrl and Alt will give me issues in other games.)

Ctrl and Alt are by and large unnecessary. If you feel more comfortable using them, go ahead.

Personally I prefer everything important on simple binds with a few shift-binds for either:

1) Long cooldowns or secondary abilities - buff, recover, PvE cc. BTW, bind your buff, if anyone in your group spends a minute without your class buff, you're doing it wrong.

2) Abilities only used right after another - for instance Shift-C right after C.

 

People usually have their pinkie on Shift. Putting it on Tab is pretty unusual.

What I do is bind the side buttons on my mouse to strafe, in addition to WASD, so I can comfortably take my fingers off the strafe buttons when required and still strafe.

 

Some people prefer to combine Shift, Ctrl and Alt with just a few buttons, ordered by rotation. It's a valid way too, but I personally just don't like playing around with modifier keys, it's harder for me to remember and has too much chance of some external program going off.

[Sarielle]

Well this is fail in logic, because the main difference between a piano and swtor's game engine is a piano has no limit speed rate on how fast you can go. Swtor does. We call it a cool down. You have to wait for the cool down to reach a certain point before you can trigger another ability.

True, but not all skills respect the global cooldown (where keybinders have the edge), and any alacrity-granting skills drastically reduce that GCD as well. The other reason the piano analogy actually works very well is that the keys are always the exact same distance apart, thus muscle memory can develop. You can't develop the same kind of muscle memory if you have to move your cursor away from your hotbar, because then the distance to get back there is NOT always the same. Unless there's something I'm missing?

 

It's not an elitist to be a key binder, it's elitist to insinuate that everyone else needs to be.

They don't NEED to be. But it's also misleading to insinuate that there are no drawbacks to clicking over keybinding, because there are. The topic was not, "Can I get by with keybinds?" The topic was, "Is one superior?"

 

I can type at around 98 words a minute with 93 percent accuracy even while having people talk to me the last time I bothered to test that. Are you sincerely suggesting that clicking stuff off the global cooldown is going to top the response that I can muster, when also factoring in superior movement and situational awareness I get from not needing to look at my hotkeys? This is possible because -- again -- my hotkeys are always exactly the same distance apart.

 

If hotkeying is like playing a piano, clicking is like playing the violin -- where there's honestly way more room for error by moving your finger just slightly, slightly off where it should be. There is a tactile indicator that your hands are not properly placed on a keyboard. There is not one with clicking.

 

There are tons of people posting (myself included) who used to be a clicker, tried keybinds and forever advocated keybinding afterward. I don't recall any clickers who tried keybinding and went back to clicking. Food for thought.

 

(And no, before someone does the "hur hurr bragging on your typing I do 200 WPM" or whatever, I'm not bragging. I'm probably average in this techology-savvy age. I'm also not claiming to be super awesome PvPer -- but I'm a damn sight better than I would be if I clicked.)

Edited September 7, 2013 by Sarielle

[Zarthorn]

Keybinder PvPers: The New Age Armory <Explicits>

 

Yes it gives a slight advantage, but let's be honest, if you aren't good at MMO's you simply aren't good at MMO's and no amount of keybinding is going to save you.

 

I'm a clicker, still do well thanks, it's the way I've played since EQ, DaoC, etc it's the way I'll continue to play, not hard to shift your most useful skills into the nook of your hotbar that's easiest to reach, pop your cooldowns on the non-hot key bar and your longterm buffs on the sidebar.

 

It takes nothing away and is only a placebo effect.

 

Oh and trust me DaoC PvP...was a LOT harder than SWTOR PvP, by a long chalk.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I have 3 of my bars key-bound - yet I still need at least 1 second to remember what this keybind was doing. Time lost.

Plus, meanwhile I have these 3 bars key-bound, I do actually click ("gasp !") on the rarely used skills (like buffing team members, for example).

 

On the other hand, meanwhile I have problems memorizing some things, all of the Genesis songs I learned 20 years ago are still in my memory. Words just stick far, far better in my memory than keybinds - except names. I have an notoriously bad memory for names. Even although these are words, too.

 

I can type at around 98 words a minute with 93 percent accuracy even while having people talk to me the last time I bothered to test that.

 

Yes, but few people have this skill of typing.

 

Plus, it must be trained, too.

Edited September 7, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[Evolixe]

Yes, but few people have this skill of typing.

 

Plus, it must be trained, too.

 

You don't need to be a fast typer to make keybinding the right choice though.

Actually 10 finger keyboard operating is a whole lot different than playing a game.

[Gloomycakes]

Ctrl and Alt are by and large unnecessary. If you feel more comfortable using them, go ahead.

Personally I prefer everything important on simple binds with a few shift-binds for either:

1) Long cooldowns or secondary abilities - buff, recover, PvE cc. BTW, bind your buff, if anyone in your group spends a minute without your class buff, you're doing it wrong.

2) Abilities only used right after another - for instance Shift-C right after C.

 

People usually have their pinkie on Shift. Putting it on Tab is pretty unusual.

What I do is bind the side buttons on my mouse to strafe, in addition to WASD, so I can comfortably take my fingers off the strafe buttons when required and still strafe.

 

Some people prefer to combine Shift, Ctrl and Alt with just a few buttons, ordered by rotation. It's a valid way too, but I personally just don't like playing around with modifier keys, it's harder for me to remember and has too much chance of some external program going off.

 

Thank you for the reply, when I get the chance I'll look how other gamers place their hands and see if I can comfortably manage that, though you didn't make it sound like there's any harm using Ctrl (and to a lesser extend Alt) instead of Shift, something I did fear since every other gamer I know uses Shift. I'm quite relieved, thank you! Though no harm in trying a new things. I'm obsessed with keybinds because I can't click abilities properly, so anything I use needs to be bound. The easier the better.

[Sarielle]

You don't need to be a fast typer to make keybinding the right choice though.

Actually 10 finger keyboard operating is a whole lot different than playing a game.

 

True. Though you know how I got to that point of typing speed? Practice, same way you guys (not you specifically) learn where to click things. The other advantage hotkeying has over clicking is that you actually can apply those typing muscle memories to other things (tell me computer proficiency isn't important these days).

 

Again. Imo the biggest thing to consider is that lots of people were clickers, tried keybinding and advocated keybinding thereafter. Is there a post where a clicker got proficient with keybinding and then decided clicking was better? I haven't seen it.

 

THAT, imo, is very telling.

[Evolixe]

True. Though you know how I got to that point of typing speed? Practice, same way you guys (not you specifically) learn where to click things. The other advantage hotkeying has over clicking is that you actually can apply those typing muscle memories to other things (tell me computer proficiency isn't important these days).

 

Again. Imo the biggest thing to consider is that lots of people were clickers, tried keybinding and advocated keybinding thereafter. Is there a post where a clicker got proficient with keybinding and then decided clicking was better? I haven't seen it.

 

THAT, imo, is very telling.

 

I wasn't argueing against you, I simply made a statement that people shouldn't confuse the one with the other while the two have little to no relevance ^^

[Xertasian]

Keybinder PvPers: The New Age Armory <Explicits>

 

Yes it gives a slight advantage, but let's be honest, if you aren't good at MMO's you simply aren't good at MMO's and no amount of keybinding is going to save you.

 

I'm a clicker, still do well thanks, it's the way I've played since EQ, DaoC, etc it's the way I'll continue to play, not hard to shift your most useful skills into the nook of your hotbar that's easiest to reach, pop your cooldowns on the non-hot key bar and your longterm buffs on the sidebar.

 

It takes nothing away and is only a placebo effect.

 

Oh and trust me DaoC PvP...was a LOT harder than SWTOR PvP, by a long chalk.

 

jusr curious about this so i will just ask..i notice how you always brag on Xinika and Evolixe like they are your heroes..seems you always want to follow there examples of enlightenment..i'm pretty sure they both use keybinds and mouse turn..so why you not using it as well i mean since you always try to be like them from what i read of your posts in different threads..

[maverickmatt]

jusr curious about this so i will just ask..i notice how you always brag on Xinika and Evolixe like they are your heroes..seems you always want to follow there examples of enlightenment..i'm pretty sure they both use keybinds and mouse turn..so why you not using it as well i mean since you always try to be like them from what i read of your posts in different threads..

 

So......

 

Several guitarists claim Page, Beck, and Clapton are their heroes... yet they have a different style of play that echoes very little, if any, of the 3.

 

Your point is irrelevant.

 

Furthermore, I wouldn't call either of them "enlightened" concerning any matter. They are both proponents of "BAKPEDAL NEVAR EVAR EVAR EVAR U SUK".. which is in itselt lacking enlightenment (don't be so rigid) and play like it's a jousting tournament (run through, turn, run through).

 

The point is...

 

 

It's rather stupid to say something like, " YOU MUST WEAR UNDER ARMOR! UNDER ARMOR DA BESTEST AND DA 1 N NLY TRU WAY TO WIN. FRUIT OF DA LOOM IS FOR BADDIES"

 

 

 

Get a grip. It's a game AND nobody is being paid to play it.

[madtycoon]

The SWTOR PvP forums are pretty adorable. Front page there's like at least 5 topics talking about clicking and backpeddaling.