Nope, I suggested the likelihood is much higher, but thanks for putting words in my mouth and showing that you're looking to argue entirely in bad faith

they never set foot in any pvp mode without a group on voice. a typical deathball zerg are dumb, you can typically avoid them and play the objective while they neckbeard for kill farming since there's several exits An organized "ranked" group, can keep playing the objective while also camping the spawn because they're organized and talk to each other constantly on voice.

Ranked titles kinda gave them away. So it's not really a scapegoat if they're walking around brandishing their ranked titles and armours. Oh and I would not place the failures of PvP directly at anyones' door but the developers. I get that Bioware took this project on initially with no experience of PvP nor what is required to strike a good balance, why a lot of the classes when they initially rolled out were effectively templates from WAR and DaoC with new, crisper animations, yet the fundamental balancing problems that Mythic had with those games (due to them being tuned for 50 v 50, a mistake given most of WAR revolved around 20 v 20 or 8 v 8) were even more intolerable here. For instance, back in vanilla, Scoundrel/Ops were able to stunlock kill 100% of the targets they picked, I know, I was one and it was even easier to do than it was with WoW combat Rogues, because the immunity bar made it even easier to plan your stunlock. Now they take a lot more thought and timing than they once did and pay for it by being extremely easy to kill when they can't use dodge or vanish. Sorcerers were another one that were outright disgusting at launch, being able to output an insane amount of damage and healing while possessing a full arsenal of defensives making them incredibly hard to pin down and kill (this is how I know it was a copy paste from WAR btw) the Consular mirror wasn't remotely as good because of animation differences led to clunkiness and being far easier to interrupt (obviously this has changed a LOT since then but that initial base shows that the PvP was directly taken from another). And who can forget the Commando/Merc Grav round/Tracer Missile spam? a Result of using stacking values over flat values, which again, was a problem in WAR and the infamous Bright Wizard stacking tactics. The thing is, it's 10 years on since then, Bioware can no longer: 1. Claim they don't know what they're doing 2. Blame it on past iterance's It's just straight up sloppy and lazy that they haven't got a grasp on PvP balance and that to me is extremely disappointing.

So reading through this thread, It would seem, several years on, PvP balance is pretty much as bad as it ever was. From Matchmaking, to some classes being outright better than others. People always use the "Skill gap" as an excuse but I'm going to wager, that "skill gap" applies to a very select few that are at the very top of the rankings For most it's abuse of pre-made on voice versus disorganised pick up group, long been a problem in MMO's will likely always be a problem in MMO's, but this does not mean they can't look at the major issues with class balance which still exist to this very day. The biggest offender is a class that has been well, the "OP" since forever, yes, a lot of those using the word "skill gap" will hate to hear it, but the Mara/Sent mirror classes have long been problematic in PvP balance, they're designed to be a high dps type, but they also possess a stupid amount of burst and defensive tools They're very much a copy paste of the WAR Choppa/Slayer and anyone that is in denial of that has never, ever played WAR and seen just how utterly obnoxious that mirror was, Choppas literally replaced Black Orcs overnight as tanks because they had so much self sustain, they could blindly rush in and just face smash their keyboard and get rewarded for it. So, they had to buff the Black Orc so they would not go entirely extinct....except it just made the game even more imbalanced. Sound familiar? It should. Two of the best class mirrors in PVP are Mara/Sent and Guard/Jugg, because the Mythic style of balancing has been very much applied in this situation and now every match has at least 2 of those and I'd imagine more during peak hours. Bioware, needs to adopt a philosophy of balancing PvP SEPERATE FROM PvE it's clear they haven't and it's why they're scared to act when it comes to those particular mirrors as weakening them in PvE is bad for the games health due to the popularity of them. But it's quite simple What many call a skill gap, is a class gap Mara/Sent doesn't take much to play, as long as you have a basic knowledge of what your buttons do, you can succeed with them far easier than any other class, Guard/Jugg take a little more knowledge but inevitably, they are still much easier to get a level of competence with than say....a healer BH/Comm mirror that take a lot of micro managing, timing, positioning and good play to get to a basic level of competence with. Now, as for the ranked pre-mades in PvP: You have an influx of new and returning people, they want to learn, they want to enjoy the game, but you're going to scare them off. It might be fun for you to style on them, but think of it from their perspective, they got dogpiled and murdered over and over by people that are clearly more knowledgeable and skilled than them, they will just come to the conclusion that the PvP mode straight sucks and it could lead to them deciding to go "Not worth it" and not bothering. There's an opportunity to re-grow the playerbase, sheathe your e-peen and suck in your pride for a couple of months and let them try to experience it before you start unga-bungaing their skulls in I literally saw a ranked pre-made spawn camping against a team that was filled with lowbie new players Come on guys n gals, that's Not cool and you're not proving anything by seal clubbing a bunch of players that are probably just experiencing it for the first time. Walk it back, calm it down P.S: If you're about to say "That's the nature of PvP", WAR died because of that attitude. Let the new/returners at least have a chance to grow before you start murking them.

This is accurate. It's a nice nostalgic thought but Vanilla was not good. Do we really want to return to the age of Grav round spam? Of Sorcs spamming chain Lightning and nothing else? Of getting stunlocked to Death by any Operative/Scoundrel that glances at you? Nobody would want that again

So it's been a while since I played, a loooong while (recently returned enjoying it more than I did with Hutt Cartel) but to say the game is in maintenance mode and "killing the IP" is a bit overdramatic I think. Let me put this in perspective. FFXIV which has been quite the success in recent years is typically several years between each expansion and 6 months between major content patches, which the content is drip fed over the . Patch window (so 6.1 released in Jan, 6.15 finishing up the 6.1 content was released last week and 6.2 won't be til July) Is that in maintenance mode? Far from it. Maintenance mode is when the content patches stop completely, the dev team stops discussing upcoming patches completely because there are none and so on. 7.1 is coming from what I can tell from their Twitter feed and so on, so it's just a matter of waiting it out.

Okay I read through all the posts on the thread, some good points, some posts...Just not even worth reading and I really honestly wonder why they bothered to post as they didn't contribute to the discussion at all. To help with the case point I'll compare BW's CS to a game that is all about it's CS, Perfect World (Yes it's a pretty bad MMO, but it seems to have a hardcore database and is well known to be Buy to Win/Pay to Win). So here are the comparisons: Armor: Perfect World: Most Gear you obtain is free or obtainable ingame, upgrading can also be done in game but it can be done faster, safer and a lot easier by Buying upgrade items off the CS rather than grinding for them, unique looks are done by social gear, buyable off the CS or for ingame currency (usually a lot) off other players. SWTOR: Most Gear again is free with some armor sets (Adaptive) being buyable from the CS, the better armor is free and obtainable, however certain upgrades require you to have access to them either bought from the GTN (requires grinding) or bought from the CS (Subscription is also classed as buying in this circumstance, its a cheaper option) Adaptive armor follows the same suit as augments, less neccessary later in a games life...but never the less, it is still very shady in it's implementation. Weapons: Perfect World: Again, free and obtainable, the same upgrade system follows suit. SWTOR: Free and obtainable, unique looks can be obtained from the CS, upgrades are also free but the Color Crystals can and will create a lower level power spike differentiation and nothing matches them until later levels, you can buy them off the GTN for ingame currency but this again is via grind method. Cosmetics: Perfect World: Buyable off the Cash-shop, from haircuts, to pets, to social clothing and dyes (are we seeing a similar pattern yet?) also buyable from other players with ingame currency (usually high priced so grinding) SWTOR: You have to pay for unlocks to hide headslot, match colors and some looks are exclusive to the CS, even exclusive emotes (paying for a sub will unlock hide headslot and match colors, again it's still paying for it) again you can buy them off the GTN, but at a high cost of credits that require a grind. EXP Boosts: Perfect World: Double EXP Weekends or Exp boost items off the CS, buyable off other players as well. SWTOR: Rest Experience locked only to Subscribers, EXP Boosts buyable off the CS, buyable from the GTN, double EXP weekends do happen, albeit rarer. Transport: Perfect World: obtainable ingame for absolutely free, however better variants are on the CS or bought from other players. SWTOR: Bought with creds, free for those that got a DE upgrade on their account or have the CE, better variants cost a LOT of credits or buyable from the CS, people will oft sell them on the GTN as well. Tradeskill/Crafting: Perfect World: Handled by NPCs, absolutely free. SWTOR: Handled by Crewskills, you are only allowed 2 out of 3 skills and must either buy the unlock for the third from the CS or GTN or Subscribe. ====================================================================================== Point in case, SWTOR has a LOT more in common with a well known BTW/PTW MMO than you first think, yes it CAN be played free, but the advantages a subscription or buying unlocks and the like bring are there. Yes it can be all free, but it would require an ungodly amount of playtime to unlock everything you need/want on one character to keep it free. The Cashshop model that BW/EA are peddaling in closing is actually...NO BETTER than a P2W Game! Edit: Also of note, it's no harm bringing this discussion to the forefront once more especially since EA now has a new CEO, we might have a good crack at dealing with these "Shady Practices"

So I've been around for a while, took a while off and came back like several of you probably did, spent a few weeks getting reaquainted with the game, it's niches and all the new stuff and a few things I noticed...bring severe worries, as you guessed it most of them are cash shop related. I sub to the game, so it isn't a personal worry by any means, more a "seeing it from a New incoming Players point of View" First and foremost, there are far too many things locked that begger belief as to who made the decision...and more importantly why? I'm well aware of what and was not locked in LOTRO I played that game for well over a year, but it seems Bioware/EA have gone a little "lock it" happy and seriously...who in the right mind is going to actually want to "pay" to hide their headslot when it's something often a given in many F2P MMO's? I absolutely understand Escrow, Bank Slots and the like but restricting visual option? That seems a bit silly. The most important factor that is going to be a huge turn off for New Players....Adaptive Armor and Color crystals. These are most definatley "Buy to Win" aspects, nothing about them to Newer players screams "Visual" especially when they see many of the established players running around in full adaptive armor with the level 10 Req Cartel Crystals on their weapon and offhand (they give a rather huge advantage at low levels by the way, especially in PvP and I'm not talking about the expertise ones, I'm refering to the Endurance and Power crystals) So now they have a choice: -Pray someone is selling a couple of these crystals on the Trading Post for a sum of creds they can easily afford -Grind out credits, lots of credits and thus be pushed into a grind experience (credits don't become abundant until level 30+) -Fork out real money for them as well as the right to use adaptive armor if they also want that or cough up for a Sub. Now adaptive armor is more negligible at points, you can easily pick up Oranges from quests and the like, the crystals however are a point of non-debate, from a new players point of view, this is a huge advantage... a top level colour crystal at level 10 that will be a massive boost to your leveling experience AND your PvP experience (remember bolster will scale your Power if you are using a power crystal, likewise with the endurance crystal) there is no other way to put it than ... This is a clean cut buy to win scenario....for a New Player. Again, I must stress the fact, I already pay for a sub, this is a null issue for me, I am just illuminating it from a "New Player" Perspective. Why this is a bad thing: Buy to win, forced wallet openers are never good, they leave a foul taste in potential customers mouths when they see them and make an opinion based on what they see, the idea is to ease people into wanting them to open their wallets, money should come willingly and not a forced method. I understand Bioware needs to "make money", break even and all, but this clearly isn't the way to do it and it's probably why the uptake of Newer players has been much slower than it could have been. There has been a phrase thrown around a lot these days, from News to Programming..."What's best for business" Bioware/EA...what's best for business is you re-evaluate what constitutes as "reasonable" when it comes to the Cash shop and how it has a knock on effect within the game when not handled correctly.

I'd wager that on the fact most Sorc healers switched to DPS cos Unlimited Powahhhh! Nobody plays Comm healers because of the green beam of death, it paints a bullseye on the Comm, seen plenty of Merc healers because they don't have the same drawback. Remember the vast majority of the playbase are not geared, not really experienced and thus don't know how to control Scoundrel/Operative healers, they interupt at the wrong time, they constantly switch targets and don't maintain focus (They are still squishy with poor defensive skills) they don't bother to AoE when the Op/Sc try to stealth...they have appauling timing with their CC. So what do people commonly do when they cannot adapt? Scream on the forums until said class(es) are made useless.

Operative/Scoundrel healers rely on one thing. Not being focused. If you leave them alone long enough to stack up their HoTs and build up Upperhand, it's a communication failure. If you interupt on diagnostic scan...it's a timing failure If you don't save your AoE's for when they try to stealth away...it's a timing failure. Things you should be interupting on: -Kolto pack -Underworld medicine DoT's to counter Hot's, stick to them like noones business, save your CC breaker for when they go to mezz (Mezz means they are going to try run) Congrats you just shut them down, even if you forced them to run away, they didn't heal their own team.

Expertise is a garbage stat invented because of a loud minority shouting about a silent minority. The vast majority of PvP'ers and PvE'ers hated it in WoW, they hated it in Rift they STILL hate it here. Expertise the Fiction: It creates a difference between PvE and PvP gear to keep the two groups seperate from one another so Raiders can't WTFPWN everyone. Expertise the Fact: It creates a balancing nightmare forcing a much more Gear > Skill environment, it alienates casual players and those that enjoy both aspects of the game (the larger portion of the playerbase) no game with a self-respecting PvP mode before or after SWTOR has required such a stat, it has always been covered through bolsters, crafting system or Gear gaps not being astronomical. DaoC never had it, WAR never had it (as poor as WAR was for the lazy balancing, none could complain about gear making people litteral Gods, RR 40's could still kill RR 80's if they were simply better players) Eve doesn't have it, GW2 doesn't have it. It only exists as a lazy fix that creates more problems than it solves any self-respecting PvPer knows it. Bioware would do well to phase it out.

Mistaken identity and assumption FTL. I don't brag on them soooo nice try.

Situational. Backpedaling constantly is bad, backpedaling in the right situation can save your backside. It's far quicker to tap S and step a little bit backwards that may save you from say being knocked off the bridge on Voidstar with force push, etc...than it is to swing your camera and strathe. Also backpedaling can step you out of an AoE radius.

Keybinder PvPers: The New Age Armory <Explicits> Yes it gives a slight advantage, but let's be honest, if you aren't good at MMO's you simply aren't good at MMO's and no amount of keybinding is going to save you. I'm a clicker, still do well thanks, it's the way I've played since EQ, DaoC, etc it's the way I'll continue to play, not hard to shift your most useful skills into the nook of your hotbar that's easiest to reach, pop your cooldowns on the non-hot key bar and your longterm buffs on the sidebar. It takes nothing away and is only a placebo effect. Oh and trust me DaoC PvP...was a LOT harder than SWTOR PvP, by a long chalk.

For every nerd rager you would get at least triple the amount of people that are thankful for the information being made public. When you dont know wild theories run rampant, distrust grows and more people become disenchanted.

It's stuff like this that is often cause for concern, when there are companies out there that are showing the way it should be done (check the Gazillion MH forums and you'll see the Devs are always willing to share any information when it comes to patches and patch ETA's) it does bring question as to why we still get "No ETA, we are fixing stuff" Transparency in this day and age is an absolute must, EA would be wise to stop forcing their game devs to keep quiet and start being more open with this information with the community, as the old saying goes "Honesty is the best policy"

Texas. Cali and err Florida -Guessing and failing.

Either someone is constantly refreshing and waiting for codes or there are some HK droids amongst us.

Revan.

Titles.

New York on the Cantina Tour - throwing a guess out.

a) Alderaan b) Voidstar

Try playing a Scoundrel outside the healing role (I still play a Scrapper Scoundrel, hard to shift away from something that is just a ton of fun to play) ...yup now you realise that's why Scoundrel healing is good...because our two damage trees are utterly sub-par compared to everyone else. Sawbones really is the only spec you can play if you are serious about PvP, take that away, you have a fun class that you'll never ever see because it'll be taking the very last lifeline away from Scoundrel players.

Jedi Cov aka Snipers go with everything server.

True that there healing is...lackluster, but it's certainly better for Wz'es than there pants damage tree, lets be honest here, they don't do anything well (tying everything to Tracer Missle and Grav round then gutting those two abilities instead of doing what was asked and spreading the damage around to stop them being one button ponies)