Here's the problem with making Treek available through the Cartel Market...

[Machine-Elf]

It's more simple then that actually.

 

1) They were just about to open PTS.

2) Treek would be there on PTS in a Legacy Unlock form...so they announced it.

3) CM content is typically NOT shown in advance on PTS, so they did not talk about it. Generally like to surprise with the CM stuff, expansion content, and sometimes event content.

I think she nailed it.

[kirorx]

It's fine that they want to sell Treek on the CM

 

Your problem is that you want some stuff to earn, I don't blame you because I would like to see some new rewards also. That new reward is not Treek though, she never was.

 

Besides would you rather Treek like this or a quest like the HK one? Treek is just an Ewok after all

[Epixxxx]

In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, and judging by all the idiotic posts, most of you haven't:

 

The Cartel Shop is where it's at for BioWare. I'm quite certain that CC purchases far eclipse subscriber dollars or any other revenue source derived from the game. They intended it that way from the start. If you think this game went F2P because of lost subscribers, you're also sorely mistaken. I can say with 99% certainty that F2P was in the cards all along.

 

There is very little actual game development in SWTOR. They don't interact with the community, the entire game is on rails, and it's riddled with rehashed content. This game, for all intents and purposes, is a console game that happens to be online. The ONLY way to drive additional revenue was to go F2P and add real money purchases for fluff items.

 

If you want a real, traditional MMO, there is only one left: Eve Online. It's the last of a dying breed.

 

This whole post is a blunt misrepresentation of the facts.

 

First off, F2P was NOT always in the cards. The problems were caused when the game launched and Bioware/EA way overestimated how long it would take players to get to endgame (They figured 2-5 months, for most, compared to the hardcores who grinded it out in a week)

 

As a result, there was a lack of content for the first few months.

 

Obviously, Bioware/EA rethought their strategy, came back, and found a new way to make money so they could keep developing their game. (Really, if they were planning on going F2P from the start, why wait 6 months and hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue loss to do so?)

 

I also disagree with your claim that we're not getting any new/frequent/updated content. We get new content EVERY. SINGLE. MONTH. Yes, it's true. Every month, we get new items on the cartel market, new ingame features, and new things to do. Now, every 2-3 months, a new patch drops, which introduces a couple of new flashpoints, dailies, and/or warzones. Now, a 2-3 month patch rate far exceeds that of WoW, EVE, or any other competing MMOs.

 

Also, in response to the ridiculous claim that Bioware doesn't communicate with its players/care about its playerbase, most people playing the game and not raging on the forums will find that to be untrue.

We get developer videos every month, we get in game support, we get Q/A on a regular basis, we also get Cantina Tours that travel around the country, giving players/supporters of the game a chance to talk to the devs, make suggestions, and hear what's going down at the HQ. In addition, the devs do listen to our suggestions. This can be seen both in the addition of the Cathar and the addition of the re-customization terminal, regardless of whether or not they make money from it (Seriously, if they have coders working on implementing new races/voice actors/artists, they need to get some pay-off)

 

This has been one of the most enjoyable posts in my time on the forums to have written a response to. Next time, get your facts straight.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Epixxxx

[Grayseven]

Welcome to the new paradigm of MMO's.

 

You don't have to like it, and you can try to fight the good fight, but as long as an MMO developer can make money off of it...well, it's gonna happen.

 

Today's neo-casual player is willing to throw real money instead of game effort into getting fluff. Old casual players railed at the amount of time and effort it took to get things that had little effect on game play. Examples include the WoW Warlock and Paladin mount quests as you could buy any old mount for gold but had to jump through hoops to get "iconic" mounts...hoops that took a lot of time. Today, MMO developers (Blizzard included) realize that there are enough people willing to just pay cash for these types of things to make selling them a profitable enterprise.

 

Treek is a good example of this new paradigm.

 

It would be a much bigger problem if Treek were ONLY available through the Cartel Market.

 

The only real gripe that exists right now is that game achieved artwork looks like garbage and all the "good looking" stuff is being made available only through the Cartel Market. Art resources for game achieved and crafted "fluff" pale in comparison to the CM "fluff", most likely in a concerted effort to push players towards spending real money.

 

The next game update has plenty of new content and items exclusive to that content that will require effort on the part of players to achieve. Those items will have to break the current pattern of poor artwork in order to assuage those of us who have railed against the focus on CM artwork. It will be interesting to see how it goes.

 

And I'm almost certain we will see at least one achieved item that will have people flooding the forums asking for it to be available for CC because they don't want to spend the time to get it through game play...

[Micro_Cuts]

I think legacy level 40 is too high!

 

1 million credits are more than enough ...

[Andryah]

I think legacy level 40 is too high!

 

1 million credits are more than enough ...

 

As a legacy unlock, there should be no credit requirement at all. Legacy unlocks are an earned pathway inside the game. Putting a credit soak on top of it was an original design mistake IMO.

 

Now, there is a clear psychological reason for Bioware not to make Legacy "credits only" rather then Legacy level. What is it? The developer does not want to influence the natural market forces in the player economy. As soon as you offer the exact same content item in CCs AND credits.. as a developer.. you have taken a position as to what the fair market value between CCs and Credits are. It triggers a fixing of mind set inside the player base as to trade value. Whereas by staying out of it completely.. they let the players and supply/demand work as intended, without outside influence. This may seem trivial to some.. but it has real influence in an area of the game where the players and only the players should determine fair market.

[The_Swan]

Treek Option 1: Cartel Coins- real-life-cash? Here's your fuzzball.

Treek Option 2: 1 million credits- in-game cash but no legacy level nor real-life cash? Here's your fuzzball.

Treek Option 3: Legacy Level 40- you've put up with a lot of nonsense, broken promises and grinding because you still love the game but haven't the in-game cash nor real-life cash? Here's your fuzzball.

 

^ Now that's "win-win", in my opinion. I think what some people with Legacy 40+ are so ticked off about is that little "and" currently residing in between "Legacy Level 40" and "1 Million Credits".

 

Above is IMO the best way things like Treek should be implemented if legacy levels are part of the equation.

And above is also IMO the way HK should be unlocked for additional characters if you dont want to quest every time.

They could also bump the legacy level requirement to 50 to better justify giving things like Treek away free.

[Tatanka]

No matter how much you want, you can't shout the convenience players out of the yard. It's their yard now, not yours.

 

You can either accept the fact that the achievement only years of the MMO genre are a thing of the past, or move on to an MMO that is a product of that past (or is so fringe that it has a pitiful population). Be warned though, even the MMOs of a bygone era have embraced convenience in order to stay alive.

[SkunkWerks]

No matter how much you want, you can't shout the convenience players out of the yard. It's their yard now, not yours.

 

You can either accept the fact that the achievement only years of the MMO genre are a thing of the past, or move on to an MMO that is a product of that past (or is so fringe that it has a pitiful population). Be warned though, even the MMOs of a bygone era have embraced convenience in order to stay alive.

 

When I want to have fun, I play an inconvenient game.

Edited July 7, 2013 by SkunkWerks

[Darth_Moonshadow]

When I want to have fun, I play an inconvenient game.

 

What an Inconvenient Truth.

 

[LordArtemis]

It's ok to dislike the Market and what it stands for, this contention as evidence of such.

 

It is also ok to express that dissatisfaction with the market, this particular item mentioned, and the general direction of the game.

 

It is NOT ok, IMO, to present those opinions as the last word, as a majority view (which the OP did not do btw) or as toxic for the game unless that toxic view is expressed as pure opinion.

 

The market has shown that this model is both profitable and productive for a game and encourages casual participation. Like it or not this is probably where the market it heading.

 

If we want to play MMOs we all likely have to take a bite.

[aeterno]

There is zero achievement either way.

 

HK-51 was good. Getting treek is spending some currency and having a chat. Presto, your companion. Bit lame.

[Koolthulu]

It's boring. There's virtually zero sense of achievement to be gained from a Cartel Market purchase. Personally, I'll be grinding my way to Legacy Level 40 (I'm a meager 10) and one million credits requirement, not because I don't have the disposable income to buy her, but simply because it's more FUN!

 

Then don't buy from the market. How does someone spending real money to get something make your game less fun? And guess what, your definition of fun may not be the same as someone else. So just stop worrying about what other people are doing and keep playing the game your way.

 

And people please stop with the "Everyone is going to unsub" thing. First off, they aren't. And second, if BW was making that much off subs, they never would have went F2P in the first place. Subs are a drop in the bucket to what the market is making.

 

Oh and can we please stop using the words "achievement" and "accomplishment" when talking about video games?

[Ratajack]

Here is the interesting part: NOWHERE did Bioware, at any time, in any way, indicate/promote/market Treek as a player effort based achievement.

 

There is a minority interest of players that is pretending Treek should be an achievement.. so that they can complain that Treek is not an achievement.

 

HK was put behind an active multi-part time consuming quest chain that even required skirting PvP and doing a group instance. HK is a companion that is defined by it's implementation as an effort achievement. Treek is clearly defined as fun and enjoyment and to be readily accessible to all players.

 

Common sense people.

 

Did BW keep Treek under wraps until she was available in the CM? No.

 

They put her on the PTS and required a legacy 40 to unlock and a million credits to purchase BEFORE the "have to have it now" crowd complained and BW announced that you could bypass the legacy 40 requirement by throwing money at them.

 

They may not have said explicitly that Treek was a player effort based achievement, but by putting her on the PTS first with the legacy requirement and ABSOLUTELY NO mention of CC's until the "have to have it now" crowd complained, they certainly IMPLIED that she was a player effort based achievement.

[SkunkWerks]

Did BW keep Treek under wraps until she was available in the CM? No.

 

They put her on the PTS and required a legacy 40 to unlock and a million credits to purchase BEFORE the "have to have it now" crowd complained and BW announced that you could bypass the legacy 40 requirement by throwing money at them.

 

They may not have said explicitly that Treek was a player effort based achievement, but by putting her on the PTS first with the legacy requirement and ABSOLUTELY NO mention of CC's until the "have to have it now" crowd complained, they certainly IMPLIED that she was a player effort based achievement.

 

So now it's not a money grab. It's a conspiracy committed by "those people".

[Ratajack]

You mistake my comment to be directed to you personally.

 

You did state the same thing.. but what you were completely vague about was how you felt about it...leaving everyone to try to figure out what you meant.. and in fact why you ended up clarifying in a subsequent post.

 

I commented on your comment, to inject clarity about the fact that Treek is indeed nothing to do with effort based achievement. The minority interest group does not get this and will not admit it. They continue to insist Bioware fix it and make it an effort achievement (most commonly by declaring that Bioware must put the Legacy 40 on the CC unlock).

 

 

What should be fixed is the difference in additional requirements based upon the method a player chooses to pay for Treek. There are several things BW could do to "fix" this.

 

How about if they remove the legacy 40 requirement to purchase her with credits? How about if they gave her to every character on a given legacy once that legacy hits level 40?

[Ratajack]

So now it's not a money grab. It's a conspiracy committed by "those people".

 

Of course it's a money grab. They now know how much people will spend to BYPASS the legacy requirement to obtain Treek.

 

In addition, why else would they require legacy 40 AND a million credits to purchase Treek without using CC's.

 

They could just as easily make her available by:

 

1) pay a million credits per character with NO legacy requirement

 

2) pay X amount of CC's per character with NO legacy requirement

 

3) give her FREE to those with legacy 40 on every character on that legacy as a legacy unlock

 

By keeping the in game method as legacy 40 AND a million credits, they are at best heavily pushing the player base toward the CC option.

[Andryah]

By keeping the in game method as legacy 40 AND a million credits, they are at best heavily pushing the player base toward the CC option.

 

Nonsense. A majority of veterans are positioned well to unlock through Legacy+credits.

 

What they are doing is not limiting Treek to the heavy veterans of the game.... the people with high legacy and deep pockets. The CC path opens Treek up to the newer players and the more casual minded. And for the most part it is the heavy veterans that want to freeze the newer players out of access to Treek because they "haven't earned it".

 

Your elitest snobbery against newer players and more casual players is very evident. Live and let live, play and let other play the way they want to.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

They put her on the PTS and required a legacy 40 to unlock and a million credits to purchase BEFORE the "have to have it now" crowd complained and BW announced that you could bypass the legacy 40 requirement by throwing money at them.

 

More nonsense.

 

They did what they always do.. when they release on PTS.. they do not disclose CM content in advance. The only reason we know about Treek is they had to announce it as part of PTS.. since they were going to allow it to be acquired via a Legacy unlock as well.

 

They have an established pattern of withholding CM, expansion, and event content from players until live patch.

 

But seriously... get over it. Treek is dual access. If you can't handle it... find something you can handle.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Andryah

[Ratajack]

Nonsense. A majority of veterans are positioned well to unlock through Legacy+credits.

 

What they are doing is not limiting Treek to the heavy veterans of the game.... the people with high legacy and deep pockets. The CC path opens Treek up to the newer players and the more casual minded. And for the most part it is the heavy veterans that want to freeze the newer players out of access to Treek because they "haven't earned it".

 

Your elitest snobbery against newer players and more casual players is very evident. Live and let live, play and let other play the way they want to.

 

Maybe you missed the part where I suggested a method by which BW could avoid the appearance of a cash grab. I'll quote myself, in case you missed it:

 

 

They could just as easily make her available by:

 

1) pay a million credits per character with NO legacy requirement

 

2) pay X amount of CC's per character with NO legacy requirement

 

3) give her FREE to those with legacy 40 on every character on that legacy as a legacy unlock

 

 

 

Does that sound like someone who wants to "to freeze the newer players out of access to Treek because they 'haven't earned it' " or does that sound like someone who is simply trying to make the playing field a little more even?

[Andryah]

Maybe you missed the part where I suggested a method by which BW could avoid the appearance of a cash grab. I'll quote myself, in case you missed it:

 

Does that sound like someone who wants to "to freeze the newer players out of access to Treek because they 'haven't earned it' " or does that sound like someone who is simply trying to make the playing field a little more even?

 

Now you just sound like a cry baby..because the legacy unlock is Legacy+credits (which frankly if you have one, you have the other). I have never agreed with credit soaks on Legacy.. but I don't cry about it because I don't get a vote on game design either.. and neither to you.

 

You are a broken record. Get over it. Move on. You are not on the dev team for the game. They are not listening to special interest groups. They are doing what professionals do.. working in the interests of the broad player base, not special interests.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Andryah

[oJebuso]

I have an idea. Let's make more of these threads.

[Andryah]

I have an idea. Let's make more of these threads.

 

lol.. yeah.. we could use a few more....being as people don't have the next rant_de_jour picked out yet.

[Ratajack]

They are not listening to special interest groups.

 

That's funny. What do you think the "have to have it now" crowd is?

[SithKoriandr]

I do not share your sentiment.

 

Treek is a great addition to the game. It's something many players like, and no player is forced to acquire it or use it if they don't like it. It is amazing to me how much so many players detest choice. Actually.. they don't detest it, they just don't want anyone but themselves to have choice.

 

And the way they are adding it to the game is consistent with everything they have been doing for the last 8 months.

 

Yeah.. some people don't like the CM, cartel coins, etc. etc. But so what. Some people, in every MMO, don't like something.

 

Wrong. You obviously didn't read the post.

 

SENSE OF ACHIEVEMENT!

 

See that above? Here let me say it again...

 

SENSE OF ACHIEVEMENT!

 

 

Look! I bolded it for you!

 

There's no problem with putting some things in the game as available for purchase in the Cartel Market. But if they keep adding EVERYTHING, then you quit giving players something to shoot for. They hit level cap and go "Well that's that, time to move on."

 

Before you'd see someone in the game and knew they had to do something specific for it. Whether it be just played the game for so long or ran some specific content.

 

Tweek as is now, means nothing.

 

Now, I have no problem with Tweek being made available in the CM, but that doesn't mean they should start doing everything in the CM (as they are currently showing their intention to be).