Skiveron Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 SO... In a story based RPG, which is built around an established story and timeline, which exists as canon, you want to mix it all up and change the story? Jedi couldn't just change their whole lives mid-stream...what if Yoda decided, right in the middle of episode 5, that he didn't want to be the best swordsman around, anymore - he wanted to be a healer...because Luke had a cut. Lame. Dual spec ruins the story. It removes any accountability for choice. It means you don't have to assume responsibility for the path you choose because you can change it at will, with no penalty. It is also a concept that was introduced to pacify impatient, overgrown babies with ADHD who couldn't find the time to stop smashing the dungeon-finder button long enough to make a new character and spec it to their needs. I detest the idea of this because it's just another thing people want to see to make this game WoW 2.0. Dual specs never existed until recently because they AREN'T necessary for any reason other than making the game easier and, unfortunately, if this is introduced it will quickly become expected. "You aren't dual spec? Sorry, our guild can't use you." Blah So 10000 people running around with the same companion isn't exactly a story breaking element for you, but someone changing a talent tree is? ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ytek Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Do we ever actually get dev responses in these forums? I haven't run across any... just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hokonoso Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 healers get it the worse, full dps classes dont need dual spec, tanks could use it, but dont need it since they can dps/pvp in their tank specs, just switch gear/stances is all it takes. healers are hosed, they MUST have specs for healing AND dps, there is no inbetween. but everyone should get it since this game has pvp, no reason not to have 2 specs when you have 2 aspects of the game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caern Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 a third time now. You can say it, but it doesn't make you correct. Use google. See the date range features? Go nuts. It'll help you from being incorrect so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicSkimmr Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Handy-capping yourself for the sake of "immersion" is the lamest excuse I've ever heard. What your really covering up is your lack of dedication and inability to play your class to the max. Cause you don't want to put in any real effort outside of artificial grinds IE make a second character excuse. *puke* The developers have previously said that when people complain that a feature "breaks immersion" for them all it really means is that they just don't like it, or don't understand it. It's a standard complaint on these forums. dual spec? breaks immersion warzones? breaks immersion instanced zones? breaks immersion not able to switch ACs? breaks immersion being stuck with one hairstyle? breaks immersion lag? breaks immersion queues? breaks immersion crappy server name? breaks immersion non-moddable ui? breaks immersion (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubomber Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 If you just want to reallocate your skills, you can do that. No dual spec necessary, so yet another bogus argument. If you want to "try" a different spec, that's in the game right now. Unless you're talking about being able to completely re-class, in which case... well, yes, you should certainly reroll. I don't see that being an option any time in the foreseeable future. This game's got some great leveling content. Dual-spec trivializes that, and for what? "Oh my God, I may need to do content a second time?" Yet another argument with practically no merit, considering the strongest proponents of dual spec are most often the same people who will run the same endgame content over and over and over. Running content twice isn't torture, and that's doubly true of engaging content, and from what I've seen so far this game's full of that stuff. I see absolutely no need to add a mechanism to the game with the sole purpose of skipping that content. It's a crutch, and this early in the game when there's little end-game, it could do some real damage. running content twice is several full 24 days of my life. That is outrageous to expect someone to do. reallocating skills is just a very small part of dual spec. Bar configuration, key binds, and UI are just some of the things that need to be adjusted when you casually run to a city to respec. Im sure the group is happy to wait while i redo my entire interface. All it does is allow a simple solution to a common problem of say, a healer has to leave for whatever reason. Rather then spam for an hour for a new healer, i can just respec, grab a dps, and continue on. It does not hurt ANYONE to have it, and it only stands to help. There has not been 1 valid reason to not have it besides peoples artificial thought that choices need to be permanent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicSkimmr Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Do we ever actually get dev responses in these forums? I haven't run across any... just curious Why would they? If you read the FAQ you'd see that they've already said they're implementing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajinUltima Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 They give us companions to fill the void role when questing or adventuring solo. Players should be able to take the companion they want, and not be forced to take a specific one to compliment their Skill tree, wouldn't you say? I'm looking at the situation of say... Lightning Sorcerer + Cowboy Andy, my support skills are highly limited and Andy is pure-dps, that presents a lot of situations where even relatively minion challenges can become frsutratingly near-impossible. As for any issue anyone has with ruining story or immersion, dual-spec is just a shortcut for re-speccing. It's not like it isn't in the game, it's only a matter of going to the skill mentor and paying him. I do the same thing in WOW and am essentially tri-spec on my Shaman. I don't even understand why there isn't just a respec button on the talent tree that allows you to just change all your talents at will and at no cost. Why is it that the game has to be so restrictive anyway? There is nothing to gain from this and it only hinders gameplay. If I want to try something different or experiment, I should be able to at any time without having to ruin myself. BW needs to learn from what Anet is doing with GW/GW2 and let the players do what they want to do. That's quite a large departure but also an option. Restrictions (to an extent) can provide fun by increasing the challenge, so there is a balance to consider. Too many restrictions and something becomes un-fun, too few and there's no challenge (hi Skyrim!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
universeman Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 So how many of these folks that 'need' dual-spec realise that World of Warcraft didn't have it for years, and years, and years, and only added it because they could never actually make the talent system work well? Need is just way too strong of a word. Want is more like it. They should be clicking Greed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skiveron Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 You can say it, but it doesn't make you correct. Use google. See the date range features? Go nuts. It'll help you from being incorrect so often. Heh I played WoW for many years, I know what I am talking about. Your primary logic of "WoW only added dual-spec cause their Talent System failed/doesn't work" is completely wrong. If You have your WoW account still active, post this in the general discussiont or whatever in WoW forums. You will get laughed at. I agree though it isn't Necessary, just convenient. But what you said is completely wrong. FULL STOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagmonster Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The developers have previously said that when people complain that a feature "breaks immersion" for them all it really means is that they just don't like it, or don't understand it. It's a standard complaint on these forums. dual spec? breaks immersion warzones? breaks immersion instanced zones? breaks immersion not able to switch ACs? breaks immersion being stuck with one hairstyle? breaks immersion lag? breaks immersion queues? breaks immersion crappy server name? breaks immersion non-moddable ui? breaks immersion (lol) yep, its a bunch of baddies complaining who don't care about endgame/metagame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imtrick Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) running content twice is several full 24 days of my life. That is outrageous to expect someone to do. It is not outrageous to think there's nothing wrong with the idea that people can build a character a certain way without some crutch to change their minds on a whim. It's not outrageous to think replaying to build a new character is a viable option. You're welcome to disagree with me, but we can have alts for a reason. If I were to overreact as much as you just did, I could say it's outrageous to want to build a character that can fulfill the functions of two other players. I'm apparently not nearly as into overblown drama as you are, though, so I won't. And it's a game. It's not "100 hours of your life," like someone's sitting there forcing you to do something. It's a game. You're making a far bigger deal out of those 100 hours than they deserve. reallocating skills is just a very small part of dual spec. Bar configuration, key binds, and UI are just some of the things that need to be adjusted when you casually run to a city to respec. Im sure the group is happy to wait while i redo my entire interface. So don't. Play your character the way you built it. All it does is allow a simple solution to a common problem of say, a healer has to leave for whatever reason. Rather then spam for an hour for a new healer, i can just respec, grab a dps, and continue on. I won't argue that dual speccing isn't a convenience feature, but that's all it is. It's nowhere near, as the OP claims, a necessity. It does not hurt ANYONE to have it, and it only stands to help. There has not been 1 valid reason to not have it besides peoples artificial thought that choices need to be permanent. As opposed to your "artificial thought" they should not? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but if it's "my opinion is more important than yours," I humbly disagree. Look, I get that you want this. That doesn't mean people don't have perfectly valid reasons for not wanting it. My biggest? I think it caters to the lazy, who want everything right now. I don't happen to think that's a good part of the population to start kissing up to. Edited December 21, 2011 by imtrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nautius Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 In a real world situation you don't bring the same exact gear/talents/training to dictate how you approach any given situation. If I am a scuba diver and a cyclist, I don't rely on my bicycle/gear/experience to help me dive. Same thing with multi-speccing. It just makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terraphon Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) You people who are against dual spec or a respec cost cap are a disgrace to real gamers everywhere. Handy-capping yourself for the sake of "immersion" is the lamest excuse I've ever heard. What your really covering up is your lack of dedication and inability to play your class to the max. Cause you don't want to put in any real effort outside of artificial grinds IE make a second character excuse. *puke* "but lag you can pvp with a pve build just fine" yeah keep being sub par because you don't want to maximize your performance for your group and yourself scrub. Same can be said for pve. Your endorsing piss poor performance by not giving the ability of a cost cap respec or dual spec options. And this is a damn MMO, your playing with other people in group content. Which requires people to fill certain rolls to do that content. The garbage excuse of just "find someone else" to fill a certain roll is idiotic. This is a game where your first goal is to have fun. When my friends who are currently online consists of two tanks and two healers and we want to do something together. Yeah we should TOTALLY not do stuff together and just find other people for one flashpoint, makes total sense. People being flexible has no effect on your gameplay what so ever. Get over yourself. And please try and name some negative effects for me so I can tear it apart like I've been doing in that other thread on this. I've got all day, hell I'm sure I can copy and paste all my responses as well. Cause its always the same old tired dead beaten horse you people come up with. Umad? Edited December 21, 2011 by Terraphon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shendaar Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) That's quite a large departure but also an option. Restrictions (to an extent) can provide fun by increasing the challenge, so there is a balance to consider. Too many restrictions and something becomes un-fun, too few and there's no challenge (hi Skyrim!). There is nothing fun about not being able to play your character the way you want and I fail to see how it provides a challenge. Like you said about dual-spec, a simple respect button is just a shortcut to what is already available. All it does is save time/money which is a big plus for the players. Edited December 21, 2011 by Shendaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varghjerta Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) If it was just a small fee, it probably wouldn't be too big a deal. However, it's also the time involved to travel to a skill mentor, reset all the skill points, change the hotbars and travel to wherever you need to be. That's a noticeable waste of time and it adds up over the course of multiple respecs. So you mean you should be able to have all speccs youre class desires within a press of a button? Sorry but i don't follow you do you need to respecc multiple times so that times becomes a factor over one night? Edited December 21, 2011 by Varghjerta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulaufein Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I'm pretty sure Bioware will implement this at some point, specially when the number of level 50's stabilizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alerum Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 POSTING AGAIN No need to post here requesting Dual Speccing. The Devs are adding this. See the link below and I've also pasted the Q&A from the article: http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916 Q: Since it has been clearly stated that there will not be dual specs for characters in the game, can you explain your philosophy behind the skill trees and how you are taking into account players that want to be able to play PvP and PvE content on the same character? - illumineart A: Dual Speccing is something we want to add soon after launch. Also, features like Guard, PvP Taunt, Resolve, etc. work to narrow the gap between PvP and PvE specialized skills (i.e. a +Block skill would be helpful in both PvE and PvP). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airinya Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 What I am here to discuss is the grave necessity for a second Skill pane to be able to swap to. Dear Bioware: Please don't do this. Continue to let choices matter. Love, Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubomber Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 What backing do you have that choices need to be permanent? What purpose does it serve other then to satisfy some kind of "pure gaming" theory you subscribe to? Dual speccing helps those that want it, and is not mandatory for those who do not. It is artificial because your saying "I feel we should be limited and if im going to do it you should too" where im saying give me the choice and you can choose not to use it if you dont want to. Asking someone to stay in 1 role or make it unnecessarily difficult (like the current end game respecs costs areand the time it takes) is a good way to get people to stop playing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buur Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 POSTING AGAIN No need to post here requesting Dual Speccing. The Devs are adding this. See the link below and I've also pasted the Q&A from the article: http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916 Q: Since it has been clearly stated that there will not be dual specs for characters in the game, can you explain your philosophy behind the skill trees and how you are taking into account players that want to be able to play PvP and PvE content on the same character? - illumineart A: Dual Speccing is something we want to add soon after launch. Also, features like Guard, PvP Taunt, Resolve, etc. work to narrow the gap between PvP and PvE specialized skills (i.e. a +Block skill would be helpful in both PvE and PvP). You just crushed a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elross Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 There is nothing fun about not being able to play your character the way you want and I fail to see how it provides a challenge. Like you said about dual-spec, a simple respect button is just a shortcut to what is already available. All it does is save time/money which is a big plus for the players. You know what else saves time/money for a player? Giving them lvl 50 characters with the best gear in the game. That doesn't mean its a good idea. As to people talking about 'play as I want to' logic, well here is one for you. As a player, I enjoy being able to destroy my enemies without dying. I don't like dying and find it tedious to have to re-spawn and start the fight over again. By your logic of being able to play as I want, I should have the option to turn off death and be able to mow through all content because 'that's how I wish I could play'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imtrick Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) POSTING AGAIN No need to post here requesting Dual Speccing. The Devs are adding this. See the link below and I've also pasted the Q&A from the article: http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916 Q: Since it has been clearly stated that there will not be dual specs for characters in the game, can you explain your philosophy behind the skill trees and how you are taking into account players that want to be able to play PvP and PvE content on the same character? - illumineart A: Dual Speccing is something we want to add soon after launch. Also, features like Guard, PvP Taunt, Resolve, etc. work to narrow the gap between PvP and PvE specialized skills (i.e. a +Block skill would be helpful in both PvE and PvP). "Want to add" and "will add" are not the same thing, by a long shot. I could already give you a long list of things Bioware "wanted to do" up to this point that didn't happen. Edited December 21, 2011 by imtrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagmonster Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Unad? Am I? Or am I just saying whats on my mind in a sea of idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nautius Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 POSTING AGAIN No need to post here requesting Dual Speccing. The Devs are adding this. See the link below and I've also pasted the Q&A from the article: http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916 Q: Since it has been clearly stated that there will not be dual specs for characters in the game, can you explain your philosophy behind the skill trees and how you are taking into account players that want to be able to play PvP and PvE content on the same character? - illumineart A: Dual Speccing is something we want to add soon after launch. Also, features like Guard, PvP Taunt, Resolve, etc. work to narrow the gap between PvP and PvE specialized skills (i.e. a +Block skill would be helpful in both PvE and PvP). I think this ^^ pretty much shuts down any further arguments whether they should/should not. Sounds like they are. Thanks for that find alerum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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