Dual-Spec: The Necessary (VERY Necessary) Evil

[Skiveron]

So how many of these folks that 'need' dual-spec realise that World of Warcraft didn't have it for years, and years, and years, and only added it because they could never actually make the talent system work well?

 

Need is just way too strong of a word. Want is more like it.

 

Umm, no, that is not at all the reason they added it.

 

And SWTOR talent system is similar, separate trees for separate roles, your point?

[Caern]

your point?

 

My point was made very clear. It is not 'nescessary', it is a convenience.

 

And yes, that is why they added it. I was there. I've been doing the MMO thing since all we had were MUDs.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Caern

[Casil]

No but you could pay a small fee and just respecc or is that to hard?

 

If it was just a small fee, it probably wouldn't be too big a deal. However, it's also the time involved to travel to a skill mentor, reset all the skill points, change the hotbars and travel to wherever you need to be. That's a noticeable waste of time and it adds up over the course of multiple respecs.

[Buur]

And yes, that is why they added it. I was there. I've been doing the MMO thing since all we had were MUDs.

 

Nope. You are wrong about this. Twice now.

[alerum]

No need to post here requesting Dual Speccing. The Devs are adding this. See the link below and I've also pasted the Q&A from the article:

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916

 

Q: Since it has been clearly stated that there will not be dual specs for characters in the game, can you explain your philosophy behind the skill trees and how you are taking into account players that want to be able to play PvP and PvE content on the same character? - illumineart

 

A: Dual Speccing is something we want to add soon after launch. Also, features like Guard, PvP Taunt, Resolve, etc. work to narrow the gap between PvP and PvE specialized skills (i.e. a +Block skill would be helpful in both PvE and PvP).

Edited December 21, 2011 by alerum

[Ventazu]

I just don't understand what all the hate is for on dual-specs. Everyone clamored for them in every game beyond WoW, now it's all "We hate WoW, say no to dual-specs!"

 

If they implemented dual-specs, I think it should be locked into the same AC at least. That way it doesn't break everyone's immersion into the game (flopping from tank to heals) and making it much closer (swapping from heals to ranged dps). I shouldn't have to level a whole additional character, same class and AC mind you, just to try out something a little different. If I wanted to play something completely different, then I'd roll another character.

 

And before you mention the skill reset, unless you're obscenely rich, that's not viable at this present time. Unless they adjusted the cost of the skill tree reset, right now it's there just to fix a screw up in the tree.

[MajinUltima]

Actually you are wrong about corruption. I've specced in madness and I've had a damn hard time fighting mobs even with my companion. I specced in corruption in beta and had an easier time fighting mobs because I could heal myself more and cast static barrier a lot quicker with ionization *********** me.

 

--Heh, the exact opposite experience here, but perhaps that's changed since beta? Heavily specced into Corruption, I'm reliant on Khem to sit around taking a beating. It takes forver to kill even Strong enemies, is a heavy burden on my Force total, and is extremely difficulty if Khem can't keep threat on all enemies.

 

Respec into mostly Madness and I can easily steamroll Strong enemies. I can mix in a few support spells to handle an Elite with Khem or Andy just fine, as it doesn't require a huge investment in healing because the Elite simply dies twice as fast. Any situation that would kill me in Madness would've killed me in Corruption anyway, so surviviability of the specs is about equal.

 

I think dual specs would ruin the immersion factor of the game. I felt the same way at first after playing Rift but getting more into the game I like the consistent feel of the character during the whole thing. No POOF I'm a healer.. POOF I'm a warrior! POOF... I'm a whatever.

 

--I don't disagree with the immersion issue. But you have to balance immersion vs just being able TO play. It may be silly to go "*Poof!* I'm a Healer!", even though I should point out a number of companions do EXACTLY that, like Khem who goes "Poof, I am tank.", but the alternative is that people will not be able to group up with friends to run Operations, Flashpoints, etc. Honestly, I'd rather be able to play with my friends/guild at the cost of a little silliness, wouldn't you?

 

I disagree.

 

There are a sufficient amount of AC's with a Healing or Tanking specialization. It encourages those who want to play those scarce roles to do their homework, prepare, know what they are doing. It also provides a more balanced MMO population, due to a lesser abundance of DPS.

 

--Have fun waiting on strangers to fill in core spots in your Operation team. There are a lot of ACs that have a tree for Healing/Tanking, that it awesome... there's just the issue of most players don't want to do that ALL THE TIME in EVERY situation. There is currently a lack of healers, because healing is not a particularly effective or fun way to do questing or PVP content.

 

Even in your imaginary dreamland where there's an abundance of tanks/healers, then you have the opposite problem of too few DPS. And there's plenty of players who are just bad at doing the damage they should be doing with a given class, and there are fight mechanics which can make this fatal to the group. You run into the same problem regardless of role density. Would you rather run into the problem and beg strangers to hopefully not-suck, or would you rather be able to ask a friend you know is a good player to swap specs for a little while?

 

I'm glad to hear they plan to put in dual-spec, making this thread pretty pointless. I can only hope it'll be up within the next few weeks when a swell of players reach 50 and begin wanting to do Operations with their friends... though I'd love to have it now for doing my levelling. >_<

[Orizuru]

I can't help but wonder... Would anyone think duel specs were needed in the game if WoW had never implemented them?

[VicSkimmr]

The community needs dual spec so that we have access to more tanks and healers. Very few people enjoying doing all tanking or all healing, instead choosing to DPS. By offering dual specs, people can switch hit in a pinch to fill the role, quadrupling our healer/tank pool for groups.

 

It has nothing to do with people wanting to be overpowered or wanting to "have it all." It's simply a measure to increase tanks and healers.

 

 

Personally, I've been playing a healer and it works great for all aspects of the game. Soloing is better with a healing spec, flashpoints are fun (and finding groups are easy) and PVP is somewhat rewarding. Very few people feel this way though.

[SWImara]

While I don't see it as necessary at all, I would really love to see the ability to dual spec. Largely just for the sake of efficiency in PvP vs. PvE.

[edit]

On the plus side since it seems they do intend to add dual specs eventually, there will be less need for completely separate sets of gear in SWTOR than in most other games. Since stats are so simple.

Edited December 21, 2011 by SWImara

[Caern]

Nope. You are wrong about this. Twice now.

 

I'm not going to get into a thing about it, but are you *seriously* naive enough that you just bought the company line about 'enabling players'? Really? They've NEVER had stable talents, and it's never worked right from day 1. You can check out all manner of blogs from that date range and see I'm right. You can also check out recent items from Ghostcrawler confirming that Talents were always supposed to be a customisation thing, not a requirement to be able to fulfill some task, or something you had to switch to and from just to PVE and PVP. Years of searchable data on the internet backs me up.

 

I haven't been wrong about it once. If you think otherwise, you really haven't been paying attention, at all. edit: You'd already know all this though if you had paid attention to the fact that the talent system in that game is being scrapped and rebuilt because, by their own admission, it was unfixable. It always was.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Caern

[Evolved_Monky]

Dual spec-ing is a bad idea. It just makes everyone in to cookie print outs of there roles. All healers will have this spec and all tanks this. Because your healing role will be speced to output the highest heals in the game.

And in doing so the devs will have to adjust future content to be difficult with a healer fully speced into healing.

 

Without dual spec healers will invest into some dps, some healers will be better at bosses others as a off-healer and ofcourse some will lvl a second character whose just a healer (usualy guild healers). And the devs will make future content without the need of a pure healing spec character.

 

Content will adjust to our builds... do you realy want content needing a healer class with most of there points into there healing tree, all of em the same just spaming heals to keep up with the new increase in bosses burst dps?

 

Get out of the uber build mindset just have fun ... if a instance cant be done with a hybrid healer, and majority of the player base is hybrid, then the devs will adjust it. No dev wants to create content that no one or just a select few will see.

[stush]

/sign

 

1x pve slot

 

1x pvp slot

 

yay

[blubomber]

Dual spec-ing is a bad idea. It just makes everyone in to cookie print outs of there roles. All healers will have this spec and all tanks this. Because your healing role will be speced to output the highest heals in the game.

And in doing so the devs will have to adjust future content to be difficult with a healer fully speced into healing.

 

Without dual spec healers will invest into some dps, some healers will be better at bosses others as a off-healer and ofcourse some will lvl a second character whose just a healer (usualy guild healers). And the devs will make future content without the need of a pure healing spec character.

 

Content will adjust to our builds... do you realy want content needing a healer class with most of there points into there healing tree, all of em the same just spaming heals to keep up with the new increase in bosses burst dps?

 

Get out of the uber build mindset just have fun ... if a instance cant be done with a hybrid healer, and majority of the player base is hybrid, then the devs will adjust it. No dev wants to create content that no one or just a select few will see.

 

PVE healers will never take dps talents to be able to solo once they hit endgame. That is completely false

[TheHauntingBard]

I can't help but wonder... Would anyone think duel specs were needed in the game if WoW had never implemented them?

 

The WOW community has been asking for this since Vanilla WOW, Blizzard gave people what they wanted.

Some of you might care about ' how it is meant to be played' according to your own imagination.

 

But I care more about when I want to do an instance and I can't because I have a healing spec unless I run all over the place pay a lot of credits and fix my bars so I can simply enjoy playing with people.

[Phanatik]

I would like to play it out without dual spec a little while longer.

 

I heal/dps as a sorc and would greatly benefit from a dual spec option.

 

However I enjoy finding builds that allow me to perform multiple tasks, expecially in pvp.

[Maintain]

They give us companions to fill the void role when questing or adventuring solo.

[Terraphon]

SO...

 

In a story based RPG, which is built around an established story and timeline, which exists as canon, you want to mix it all up and change the story?

 

Jedi couldn't just change their whole lives mid-stream...what if Yoda decided, right in the middle of episode 5, that he didn't want to be the best swordsman around, anymore - he wanted to be a healer...because Luke had a cut.

 

Lame.

 

Dual spec ruins the story. It removes any accountability for choice. It means you don't have to assume responsibility for the path you choose because you can change it at will, with no penalty. It is also a concept that was introduced to pacify impatient, overgrown babies with ADHD who couldn't find the time to stop smashing the dungeon-finder button long enough to make a new character and spec it to their needs.

 

I detest the idea of this because it's just another thing people want to see to make this game WoW 2.0.

 

Dual specs never existed until recently because they AREN'T necessary for any reason other than making the game easier and, unfortunately, if this is introduced it will quickly become expected.

 

"You aren't dual spec? Sorry, our guild can't use you."

 

Blah

[blubomber]

SO...

 

In a story based RPG, which is built around an established story and timeline, which exists as canon, you want to mix it all up and change the story?

 

Jedi couldn't just change their whole lives mid-stream...what if Yoda decided, right in the middle of episode 5, that he didn't want to be the best swordsman around, anymore - he wanted to be a healer...because Luke had a cut.

 

Lame.

 

Dual spec ruins the story. It removes any accountability for choice. It means you don't have to assume responsibility for the path you choose because you can change it at will, with no penalty. It is also a concept that was introduced to pacify impatient, overgrown babies with ADHD who couldn't find the time to stop smashing the dungeon-finder button long enough to make a new character and spec it to their needs.

 

I detest the idea of this because it's just another thing people want to see to make this game WoW 2.0.

 

Dual specs never existed until recently because they AREN'T necessary for any reason other than making the game easier and, unfortunately, if this is introduced it will quickly become expected.

 

"You aren't dual spec? Sorry, our guild can't use you."

 

Blah

 

that doesnt make sense because not only can you already respec, but choosing either advanced classes does not alter the story one bit.

[TheHauntingBard]

SO...

 

In a story based RPG, which is built around an established story and timeline, which exists as canon, you want to mix it all up and change the story?

 

Jedi couldn't just change their whole lives mid-stream...what if Yoda decided, right in the middle of episode 5, that he didn't want to be the best swordsman around, anymore - he wanted to be a healer...because Luke had a cut.

 

Lame.

 

Dual spec ruins the story. It removes any accountability for choice. It means you don't have to assume responsibility for the path you choose because you can change it at will, with no penalty. It is also a concept that was introduced to pacify impatient, overgrown babies with ADHD who couldn't find the time to stop smashing the dungeon-finder button long enough to make a new character and spec it to their needs.

 

I detest the idea of this because it's just another thing people want to see to make this game WoW 2.0.

 

Dual specs never existed until recently because they AREN'T necessary for any reason other than making the game easier and, unfortunately, if this is introduced it will quickly become expected.

 

"You aren't dual spec? Sorry, our guild can't use you."

 

Blah

 

It's a MMORPG and yes it's heavily inspirited by WOW.

Oh most of all it's a game you take it to serious.

[imtrick]

It only takes 100+ hours to try a different spec. That makes sense to just do that instead of respeccing.

 

If you just want to reallocate your skills, you can do that. No dual spec necessary, so yet another bogus argument. If you want to "try" a different spec, that's in the game right now. Unless you're talking about being able to completely re-class, in which case... well, yes, you should certainly reroll. I don't see that being an option any time in the foreseeable future.

 

This game's got some great leveling content. Dual-spec trivializes that, and for what? "Oh my God, I may need to do content a second time?" Yet another argument with practically no merit, considering the strongest proponents of dual spec are most often the same people who will run the same endgame content over and over and over.

 

Running content twice isn't torture, and that's doubly true of engaging content, and from what I've seen so far this game's full of that stuff. I see absolutely no need to add a mechanism to the game with the sole purpose of skipping that content. It's a crutch, and this early in the game when there's little end-game, it could do some real damage.

Edited December 21, 2011 by imtrick

[Shendaar]

I don't even understand why there isn't just a respec button on the talent tree that allows you to just change all your talents at will and at no cost. Why is it that the game has to be so restrictive anyway? There is nothing to gain from this and it only hinders gameplay. If I want to try something different or experiment, I should be able to at any time without having to ruin myself.

 

BW needs to learn from what Anet is doing with GW/GW2 and let the players do what they want to do.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Shendaar

[Skiveron]

 

I haven't been wrong about it once. If you think otherwise, you really haven't been paying attention, at all.

 

Nope, you have been, Even if what you say its true, its totally irrelevant, SWTOR uses the SAME STYLE, and in many cases, THE SAME TALENT as WoW, so as long as they keep the same style, dual spec will greatly be beneficial.

 

And yes, you have been wrong about this..a third time now.

[Phanatik]

The WOW community has been asking for this since Vanilla WOW, Blizzard gave people what they wanted.

Some of you might care about ' how it is meant to be played' according to your own imagination.

 

But I care more about when I want to do an instance and I can't because I have a healing spec unless I run all over the place pay a lot of credits and fix my bars so I can simply enjoy playing with people.

 

I only played healer classes in wow...priest in vanilla, pally in bc. Both before dual spec was released.

 

I mean half the time in vanilla wow was just busy making the trees make sense. I know im talking about stuff that happened years ago, but dont think it happened overnight.

[Lagmonster]

You people who are against dual spec or a respec cost cap are a disgrace to real gamers everywhere.

 

Handy-capping yourself for the sake of "immersion" is the lamest excuse I've ever heard. What your really covering up is your lack of dedication and inability to play your class to the max. Cause you don't want to put in any real effort outside of artificial grinds IE make a second character excuse. *puke*

 

"but lag you can pvp with a pve build just fine" yeah keep being sub par because you don't want to maximize your performance for your group and yourself scrub. Same can be said for pve. Your endorsing piss poor performance by not giving the ability of a cost cap respec or dual spec options.

 

And this is a damn MMO, your playing with other people in group content. Which requires people to fill certain rolls to do that content. The garbage excuse of just "find someone else" to fill a certain roll is idiotic. This is a game where your first goal is to have fun. When my friends who are currently online consists of two tanks and two healers and we want to do something together. Yeah we should TOTALLY not do stuff together and just find other people for one flashpoint, makes total sense.

 

People being flexible has no effect on your gameplay what so ever. Get over yourself. And please try and name some negative effects for me so I can tear it apart like I've been doing in that other thread on this. I've got all day, hell I'm sure I can copy and paste all my responses as well. Cause its always the same old tired dead beaten horse you people come up with.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Lagmonster