Dual-Spec: The Necessary (VERY Necessary) Evil

[VicSkimmr]

Noobs who cant play there class always want duel spec.

 

Your logic is infallible.

[Dekadez]

I disagree.

 

There are a sufficient amount of AC's with a Healing or Tanking specialization. It encourages those who want to play those scarce roles to do their homework, prepare, know what they are doing. It also provides a more balanced MMO population, due to a lesser abundance of DPS.

 

With Dual Spec, you're getting uneducated players that cause wipes. You're getting undergeared offspec players to cause wipes. You're getting such a massive amount of DPS that grouping will be nigh impossible (Because nearly everyone likes to DPS more than to Tank or Heal). And you're defeating the purpose of the Gunslinger/Sentinel/Marauder/Sniper. When Dual Spec arrives, we've seen a drop of pure DPS classes being used in raids, especially when Bioware plans to balance DPS around the same numbers.

 

Why take the Sniper, when you can have the Operative who does about the same DPS, and can Heal when things go wrong?

 

Exactly. No incentive at all to take that pure class along. None.

[Trolltar]

Your logic is infallible.

 

Lol. "The cadet's logic is sound"

[Skiveron]

I doubt most of the nerds who play this game will agree with dual spec, even though its a convenient feature, cause its too much like WoW. Same reason they do not want LFD.

[DirtyScience]

Noobs who cant play there class always want duel spec.

 

Cool grammar train wreck, you must be right.

[FooBard]

Noobs who cant play there class always want duel spec.

 

I really have to agree with you.

 

 

But, I would like to be able to "save" a configuration so When I did want to respec, I could just select a spec that I have already created and "saved".

 

It should still cost money - and I should still have to visit an NPC to accomplish this.

 

(Though the cost to "unlearn" your skills is a bit excessive IMO).

 

Noobs who cant play there class always want duel spec.

BTW, it's their and dual. Just saying. Duel is when you fight someone.

Edited December 21, 2011 by FooBard

[MajinUltima]

You simply need to create more than one character. What every one of these requests is asking for is the need to not have to create and level a second character, which I do not agree is something the game should provide.

 

At the very least, dual-spec is most certainly not necessary, just a convenient time-saver.

 

--Well by "time-saver" you mean literally dozens of hours, on maybe the same exact class even. But your thinking is entirely selfish. Say I have an AC with a Tank tree, but I focused on DPS. My friends and I want to run an operation, but we have too many DPS.

 

Well, by your thought, that means none of us should be able to run an Operation together. Tough luck, roll a new character or spend a lot of time and credits flying to the Skill guy to respec into Tank, then respec into DPS when you're done.

 

See, you aren't considering that flexibility of an individual is often something that benefits others, benefits group play and social interaction. Hate to bring up The Game That Shall Not Be Named, but dual-speccing is core to max level gameplay in WOW precisely because it offers players the flexibility to change roles as groups with their friends may need, for the benefit of the group... rather than just sayin "Well, Timmy can't heal unless we spend 600,000 credits, so we can't do an Operation tonight".

 

If it were up to me, I'd just as soon fully invest in Madness and never have to touch a healing button in groups... but I consider the fact that I am going to play with other players, and they may need me to perform a role which is not said preference.

 

The "cons" to dual speccing are... well basically non existent, the "con" boils down to your selfish anti-social opinion. The "pros" are that it encourages and facilitates grouping and gameplay.

[Varghjerta]

Actually why is people so annpyed that some people in some areas will have an advantage if they are specced right?

 

Cause that is basicy what it is about

 

QQ about that another specc can do better in some parts and get a small advantage either it is in PvP or Pve .

 

But people want everyone to be exactly the same and it seems hellbent impossible lvling as a tank or healer or for that matter joining PvP as one aswell ............Horrifying

[kyrinthic]

It is not necessary. It hurts immersion and long term replayability.

 

If I want to build a character that is a lightning wielding evil sorcerer. Swapping over to a healing spec doesnt fit the character. The point of advanced classes and specs are to differentiate your characters.

 

Unfortunately, with other popular mmos going with a dual spec idea, suddenly there is little need to differentiate your characters. In said mmo you can see the depth and options dissapear after each release, because they serve little point if you can just swap it whenever you want.

 

At what point do the people who constantly call for cheap respecs and dual specs, and advance class changing decide that what they really want is no options, and just play the same character as everyone else?

[CyberData]

In time, yes.

 

Right now? Not needed.

 

We need talent tree fixes/tweaks, what's the point of being able to switch between 2 broken talent trees?

[Konoo]

I've been gaming for decades, and I've never agreed that dual-specs are necessary.

 

In the end, what every demand for them comes down to is "I want my ONE character to be able to fill MORE THAN ONE role."

 

You simply need to create more than one character. What every one of these requests is asking for is the need to not have to create and level a second character, which I do not agree is something the game should provide.

 

At the very least, dual-spec is most certainly not necessary, just a convenient time-saver.

 

I am with you on the healer / tank / dps side of your argument but rolling a new toon just for PVP is a bit over the top.

[imtrick]

I doubt most of the nerds who play this game will agree with dual spec, even though its a convenient feature, cause its too much like WoW. Same reason they do not want LFD.

 

Thanks for the blanket insult. I'm not a fan of dungeon finders or dual specs, and neither has anything to do with them being too much like WoW. I just think they're detrimental features that don't improve the game (and in some ways, make it worse).

 

You're free to hold a different opinion, but if the only thing you can do to back it up is insult people who disagree with you, you may want to spend a little more time thinking through your position, since that's not very steady ground.

[data_less]

When they put it into wow really hated it from day one , Dont think its needed and i hope its never put into the game. Just pay for the respecs while leveling and stick to one spec for end game very simple.

[Buur]

I am positive they will add it eventually. If not people will just leave and go play games that allows them to play their character however they like.

[Casil]

This is something of a bogus argument. People can play a PVP DPS spec and a PVE healing spec with the current setup. There are 8 character slots per server.

 

Are you seriously saying that if I want to play a healing Operative in PvE and DPS Operative in PvP that I should make two separate characters, going through all the content twice instead of saving myself 100+ hours and just respec?

 

This seems way too much like a very nerdy frat hazing. After being humiliated and tortured for so long when playing their old MMOs, all they want to do is see other people go through the same torment.

[Trolltar]

You're getting such a massive amount of DPS that grouping will be nigh impossible (Because nearly everyone likes to DPS more than to Tank or Heal).

 

How does including dual spec create more dps'ers? If people prefer dps to healing won't single spec mean that even less of those people ever heal? At least with dual spec they'll heal sometimes. Without it they'll never heal. Unless the goal here is for people to play healer classes when they don't want to?

[Putok]

My Darkness Assassin is doing EXTREMELY well leveling. I'm duoing with a good friend, but I'm pretty sure I could solo just fine with my damage output. Beyond that, I'm VERY sturdy. 31% damage reduction, 14% avoidance, 21% shield chance, and 4122hp unbuffed. I have absolutely no issues taking on two same-level elites by myself, and I'm quite sure I couldn't do that as a DPSer.

 

I do think dual spec would be wise for healers, though I haven't played one enough to say for sure. IMHO, dual spec is a pretty basic feature in a modern MMO, and definitely encourages better participation in group content while leveling.

[imtrick]

Are you seriously saying that if I want to play a healing Operative in PvE and DPS Operative in PvP that I should make two separate characters, going through all the content twice instead of saving myself 100+ hours and just respec?

 

This seems way too much like a very nerdy frat hazing. After being humiliated and tortured for so long when playing their old MMOs, all they want to do is see other people go through the same torment.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm personally fine with playing two characters if I want a healing character and a DPS character. I don't get why so many people seem like it's their God-given right to have a shortcut for that.

[Xerda]

Loving the game, mad props to the whole SWTOR team, not here to discuss the few other technical issues like servers and such. What I am here to discuss is the grave necessity for a second Skill pane to be able to swap to.

 

*Keep in mind: I only mean that a Sorcerer can only make a second Sorcerer tree, the first can focus on Corruption and the second on Lightning, for example.

 

There's a few issues that inhibit player experience due to the absence of a second Skill spec to swap to...

 

- Healing: As noted above in the Sorcerer example (and my current main), investing talents especially at mid levels in Corruption severely inhibits your strength when questing around in PvE. As content becomes more complex and difficult, this creates a stronger division. Without Corruption talents, you are not a reliable healer for group content... and without Lightning/Madness talents, you have a considerably more challenging time when soloing with your companion.

 

- Tanking: Not sure how drastic the discrepancy may be here, but it does seem to be minor, so I'm only going to make note of this.

 

- PVP: There's a number of talents or even a Skill tree which may suit PVP play more than PVE play. At max level especially, when people begin running Operations and PVPing at max level more regularly, players are going to find discrepancies between which Skills they're going to want to use for each. A player may want to Heal/Tank for their friends in Operations, but want to be more damage oriented in PVP play... or a player may be great at dishing damage against bosses, but prefer to play a support role in PVP combat.

 

As I myself currently am maining a Sorcerer, it was very hard to quest before I did a Skill respec away from healing talents, but now I am inadequate as a healer in groups. This forces a very un-fun decision on my gameplay, where I must choose between my questing or my ability to support others. I am certain many other players (especially in healing-capable classes) are feeling a similar pressure.

 

Agreed dual spec is needed

[blubomber]

This is something of a bogus argument. People can play a PVP DPS spec and a PVE healing spec with the current setup. There are 8 character slots per server.

 

It only takes 100+ hours to try a different spec. That makes sense to just do that instead of respeccing.

[TheSwamper]

Again, you can't see the forest for the trees. Are you suggesting that I should roll one PvP toon and one PvE toon? Really?

 

Yes, absolutely and totally. ONE character = ONE role. The game does let you create many, many alts, or didn't you know that?

[Casil]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm personally fine with playing two characters if I want a healing character and a DPS character. I don't get why so many people seem like it's their God-given right to have a shortcut for that.

 

Because most people have better things to do with their lives than spend 100 hours levelling up the same character just so that a different subset of abilities that they already had are more powerful?

 

You do also realize that there are current respecs in the game, right? An unlimited number in fact, as long as people can afford the cost (credits, time and tedium) involved. You seem to be arguing for a regression to no respecs whatsoever.

[Caern]

So how many of these folks that 'need' dual-spec realise that World of Warcraft didn't have it for years, and years, and years, and only added it because they could never actually make the talent system work well?

 

Need is just way too strong of a word. Want is more like it.

[Varghjerta]

Are you seriously saying that if I want to play a healing Operative in PvE and DPS Operative in PvP that I should make two separate characters, going through all the content twice instead of saving myself 100+ hours and just respec?

 

This seems way too much like a very nerdy frat hazing. After being humiliated and tortured for so long when playing their old MMOs, all they want to do is see other people go through the same torment.

 

No but you could pay a small fee and just respecc or is that to hard?

[Cameirus]

No. If you are against AC swapping, then you should be against this.

 

Spec changing needs to be prohibitively expensive, 50 creds first time and multiplying by 5 each time (250, 1250, ...) each time with no limit and no reset.

 

Your spec is your spec, esp with companions to make soloing viable in any spec.