Remove Premades NOW!

[scraycroft]

Choise!

[islander]

It really cant be that hard to technically fix 2 separate Q:s. One for Group vs Group and one for solo players. Afterall they have merged the servers to fill population and on top of that its better to wait for a WZ that fits your taste rather then haveing alot of quitters.

 

que times would grind to a halt. I solo queue (or maybe 2 man) fairly often.

 

My suggestion: Play better.

[Technohic]

Don't need any more queues. A simple matchmaking system that tries to put premade against premade; although not strictly limiting to that would be fine.

[Exastify]

Don't need any more queues. A simple matchmaking system that tries to put premade against premade; although not strictly limiting to that would be fine.

 

Agreed. Don't need to completely separate - we just need a good matchmaking system.

 

Don't most multiplayer-ish games with matchmaking use ELO? Can SWTOR do that?

[TonyDragonflame]

I think, there is need only 2 separated queues on 55 lvl:

 

1. Solo only queue

2. Group teams 2-3-4 only ''ranked' queue

 

Old 8-man ranked must be removed, cuz they failed.

 

So, only 2 queues, with 2 types of "rank" for each player - solo individual rank and team group rank (like now).

Edited May 13, 2013 by TonyDragonflame

[cycao]

I think, there is need only 2 separated queues on 55 lvl:

 

1. Solo only queue

2. Group teams 2-3-4 only ''ranked' queue

 

Old 8-man ranked must be removed, cuz they failed.

 

So, only 2 queues, with 2 types of "rank" for each player - solo individual rank and team group rank (like now).

 

I don't think they should do a ranked of anything less than 8 man groups. Basically for the same reason why solo ranked is a bad idea has some people don't like having games decided by random players who make bad decisions.

[throapy]

yes, too many times, since im a devoted PUG player.

 

Then get some friends loser. All I need to know is thatnyounloventhe changes BW has made, nuff said, choke yourself with my hand. You are exactly what is killing this game, thanks doosh.

[throapy]

Ignoring the option to make a premade group means Bioware should ignore the option to listen to crybabys that ignore the option to make a premade.

 

If you can't understand that tongue twister then you are bad and need to play a console game not a mmo.

 

/fin

 

LOL now that was god damd funny!

[Capote]

IMO the right way to go is to make the x-server queues and then a matchmaking to separate pre-mades from PUGs, but I doubt that will happen, since bw seems to completely ignore PvP improvement subjects.

[throapy]

why do ppl say this? it's sole purpose is to troll someone. you should be banned, censored, warned, or whatever steps BW has outlined for griefing, because that's exactly what this is. it's not even veiled.

 

U mad?

[islander]

I think, there is need only 2 separated queues on 55 lvl:

 

1. Solo only queue

2. Group teams 2-3-4 only ''ranked' queue

 

Old 8-man ranked must be removed, cuz they failed.

 

So, only 2 queues, with 2 types of "rank" for each player - solo individual rank and team group rank (like now).

 

I would love the idea of 4 man ranked. Any less is just nuts in my view at least.

They'd have to use the group finder most likely, to be more likely to ensure reasonable set ups.

 

I don't even care if they give it a separate ranking from the 8-man. I mean, that would make sense.

Edited May 13, 2013 by islander

[islander]

Played about 12 games last night, had one game where my team absolutely crushed the other team which clearly was a full pug. The other 11 were all highly competitive and most came down to the wire and every team we faced in these games had at least 1 premade in them.

 

Nice node defending, btw

[throapy]

I am always confused at the responses to this idea.

 

1)"I should be allowed to play with my friends"..okay do a rated..if that's your only goal is to play with your friends it will be fine. If you lose...L2P

 

2)"the queues will be longer"...I disagree in fact it will likely entice more players to come in because they wont constantly expect face stopping.

 

I might add they could change rated to allow 4 man teams to queue, and of course I have no problem with x-server queues for any of this.

 

All they really need to do is up their monitoring system and their bans and we would be good.

 

 

The truth is we all know rated teams use the regular matches to farm comms and waste time for rated to pop. The stupid part is if they allowed for this idea we would actually see more players continue to level and play and increase the wz pops. Its a no brainer for me but then I enjoy real pvp competition against solid players..who don't need to exploit or hack or stack teams to win. If I lose against a real solid player I can tell, the rest..well lets just say there is a lot of trash in this game.

 

So I vote to remove premades from regular matches

 

Um no. Get a friend

[foxmob]

I would love the idea of 4 man ranked. Any less is just nuts in my view at least.

They'd have to use the group finder most likely, to be more likely to ensure reasonable set ups.

 

I don't even care if they give it a separate ranking from the 8-man. I mean, that would make sense.

 

why? it's just arenas. the maps are too big for it. but 2 and 3m teams don't require complex maps. just thrown them in one of the many spaceport hangars.

[islander]

why? it's just arenas. the maps are too big for it. but 2 and 3m teams don't require complex maps. just thrown them in one of the many spaceport hangars.

 

Arenas for 4 on 4 specifically is a different animal. Not suggesting that's a bad idea at all, that'd be nice.

I was refering to grouping 2 sets of queued 4 mans together for an 8 man rated within the current context of rated now.

[thesadplanet]

The hypocrisy of people against the idea of pugs and premades being in the same pvp queue is simply astounding.

 

I have been following threads regarding these kinds of complaints pretty much since the game came out, and I've noticed a trend.

 

Generally, people on the forums that I recognize for positively contributing to the pvp forums in some way (ranked pvp discussion and tactics, intelligent class balance discussion, the intricacies of the bolster system, etc. ) don't seem to have a problem with the current system, or at least recognize that the negatives of instituting separate brackets for solo queueing and premades massively outweigh the positives.

 

The people who complain about premades, on the other hand, generally don't make any sort of contribution to the forums and just say the same things over and over again like a broken record. Their proposed "solutions" to this non issue are usually completely and utterly non-sensical and despite being constantly debunked by the intelligent players are brought up over and over again.

 

So, for the record:

 

A Premades Only Bracket Would Be Terrible:

 

Anyone who actually suggests such an idea has clearly not thought this through. The main "problem" with the system as it is now is that uncoordinated pugs will sometimes get matched up with a coordinated premade. Well, I have a newsflash for y'all. Not all premades are created equal. Under this system, it would be very likely for 2 groups of "friends", just screwing around, to get matched up against 2 serious pvp guilds and get absolutely stomped, and due to the much smaller pool of players, this is an event which could potentially occur over and over again. The amount of imbalance in this bracket would be far worse than it has ever been in the current system, and would be just as likely to alienate players as what we have now.

 

A Solo Queue Only Bracket Would Also Be Terrible:

 

I can say with confidence that if there were to be a solo queue only bracket, that it would generate some of the lulziest games ever. As I stated previously, it seems like the majority of intelligent players prefer to group up with other intelligent players, so by removing premades from the normal bracket, you are also taking out a massive chunk of the good players from the normal brackets. As a result, the average team would be even stupider than they already are, and this will only be offset by the fact that the other team is likely to be equally stupid. So, just like the system is currently, the winner will be determined by whichever side has the least terrible players. It will just be even more of a crapshoot than before.

Telling People To Do Ranked Is Not A Solution:

 

As someone who has played over 500 ranked games, and has taken a great amount of effort to form pug ranked teams for months now (often times even forming 2 to play against eachother when there is nobody else going) I can't help but laugh when I see this suggestion being thrown out by uninformed players. On even the largest pvp servers, getting a ranked pop is hardly a guarantee. On my server, you could queue up for ranked for hours at a time during peak times on a weekend and never get a ranked pop. Additionally, getting 8 people together to play a serious ranked match is a far cry from playing with 1-3 of your friends in a normal match. They are completely different and to say one is a solution to the other is extremely ignorant.

 

A Better Matchmaking System Which Matches Premades Against Other Premades:

 

This is a pretty good suggestion that I've seen some reasonable people make in this thread. Problem is, I am fairly sure this already exists. While Bioware hasn't come out and said specifically how the PvP matchmaking system works, most long time pvpers will tell you that while queueing with a premade will make it much more likely to get a premade on the other side than it is with solo queueing. I suspect that given a larger PvP player pool, this system might work better, but given the current state of PvP, you are going to get a lot of uneven matchups.

 

In short, Premades vs Pugs is an element of pretty much every mmo ever released, as well as basically every other genre of game that can be played online. While it can sometimes be annoying, the current system is much better than any of the proposed alternatives, and many of the people who make suggestions to change the system seem to be coming from an uninformed position.

Edited May 13, 2013 by thesadplanet

[foxmob]

There is nothing wrong with having a single premade group within a Warzone. The problem is when a queue pops and 2 premades (two separate groups) or a super queued group show up into a Warzone. My guild is working on putting a ranked team together. We queue a number of groups of 4 together and queue up for a normal Warzone. However, we stagger our queues so that we do not end up with 2 of our guild groups in a Warzone. Should that happen, one of our groups immediately leaves. If another premade group enters the Warzone with us; that is the fault of the match making system.

 

The truth of the matter the queue system needs to incorporate a group identifier that limits one group of 4 to any normal Warzone and match it to another then back fill it with solo players. This will facilitate placing 2 premades into a normal Warzone against other premade groups. Likewise the match making system should include an organizer similar to what group finder uses for Flash Points. This would limit each side to having 2 healers, 2 tanks, and 4 dpsers. Conversely, this system should incorporate identifiers for the skill tree and stance type and lock them as is so the system cannot be exploited by respecting after enter a Warzone. Finally, putting Voice coms in for Warzones and group (FP & Ops) play will increase the competition level and fun factor for everyone.

 

Should BioWare do this, I believe it will greatly lower the frustration of PuG players. Moreover, it will not eliminate poorly skill players from being destroyed by a group of comprised of good players in a single premade and 4 solo players. Will it reduce the amount of complaining people do about groups and match making in a Warzone? Maybe. However, people will still complain about something they do not like. What it will do is increase the enjoy ability factor allowing the less skilled players to actually learn how to play their chosen AC and improve their play.

 

as we're on the same server, you may or may not already know this, but your proposition is unlikely to work because <b30> is composed of ppl from multiple guilds, as is <us> and <angry dragons> , I know <b30> superQ'd with ppl with different tags. it would still prevent 8 ppl with the same guild tag though. not useless, just not going to stop ppl from circumventing the Q system.

[Ybini]

the RNG match maker is not helpful I've queued into games pub vs pub where all of the healers were on one team and my team were all dps and tanks. It's pure randomness no logic to it.

[DarthOvertone]

It really cant be that hard to technically fix 2 separate Q:s.

 

Sorry bro, but you lost me here. Clearly, you don't know squat about BW.

[Baedwulf]

Oh great... another nerf teamwork and coordination thread.

 

And wouldn't "freedom of CHOICE" include having the choice to group with friends in regs?

[Ybini]

If the queue's were non-stop I'd say give them a seperate queue but they're not, so it would just make everything even slower. There's no ranked practice area so regs are all pvp rated groups have to do to practice as sorry as that state is. When they're lucky, they'll queue against another premade and it'll be interesting, otherwise its just going to be rough for us true solo queuers.

[skarlson]

I agree nerf smash and ops roll! Is this the right thread for that?

[foxmob]

the RNG match maker is not helpful I've queued into games pub vs pub where all of the healers were on one team and my team were all dps and tanks. It's pure randomness no logic to it.

 

what would make you think there would ever be logic to it in the first place? do you Q "as a healer" for WZ the way you do in grp finder for pve content? It would be nice if you could. it might make things more balanced (though remember how long grp finder Qs are!).

[BalphoWan]

I think one good idea might be reducing the size of groups that can que for WZ's from 4 to 2. Now, let me just say that I am fine with premades, and I run with one often. I was just thinking about some possible middle ground for solo PUGs.

[sirullrich]

I am new to the Bastion and don't really know too many people. So I have been pugging a lot the last few weeks. This is my conclusion. Most pugs do not play objectives. They all leave and try to solo everybody 1v1. Nerf healers, nerf premades, nerf this and that are usually pugs who cry because they can't win. I would say this to most to the pug community the reason people don't ask you to play with them is probably because you are too good for them.