Shadows/assassins need a rebalance

[yotasatheart]

Translation. I wont provide a screenshot with protection shown. My parse is flawed due to not having protection/dmg reduction/armor buffs, taunts.

 

I also won't parse something relevant to this discussion because the math is all there and it would just show how stupid it is for a stealth class to get this mitigation/cc immunity, and put out as much damage as a class who has none of that.

 

Thanks for playing!

 

P.S. How many dps scoundrels/op's were in that game. Oh yeah...no one brings them because a dps sin/shadow is now ranked viable in group fights, a better defender/capper, completely counters THE ONLY OTHER STEALTH CLASS, and can respec to 12/31/3 at anytime and be a completely viable defender (as in derp, I r can solo 3 people for awhile before I call for help), with the same rotation minus 1 button.

 

So cool man. My shadow should be viable for ranked as tank, hybrid and dps, beat everything 1 v 1, be good in large scale fights. My scoundrel/op should only be viable as a healer. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for explaining this all to me.

 

Delete one character after I spend my ranked on him, and never look back, or question stupid imbalances in the game. I simply shouldn't care that an entire AC gets screwed in favor of someone who parses warzones (LOL). Oh yeah and friends who rolled scoundrel/op? Just tell them sorry your class sucks. Roll sin noobs. You are only good for pre endgame warzones and killing f2p's LOL.

 

And Bioware/EA wonders why this game continues to be a failure as far as anyone giving a damn about the pvp in it. It would take all of 5 minutes of looking at the trees, and playing both stealth classes for any decent WoW arena player to ask...what the hell were you thinking...

 

I have come to the conclusion that this game just caters to the mass rolled classes to make money. They could care less about balance. So enjoy pvp in a game noone gives a damn about, because it gets worse with every patch. Then get rolled by people who think this game is a big joke.

 

I firmly believe that this guy is a troll. well played sir!

[biowareftw]

I firmly believe that this guy is a troll. well played sir!

 

You going to link me a dps report in a Warzone (LOL), to dispute mitigation differences as well?

 

I am looking eagerly forward to that ! Be sure and skip the screenshot of the warzone as well, and don't show protection done.

 

Troll. Term used in a last ditch effort to defend what is clearly imbalanced, when all other arguments have been shot down, and the OP has made the people look like fools.

[ProKsnNwk]

Umm, really. Whining about Shadows/Sins....

Why not whine about the Smash, its still OP, so how Shadows/Sins compare to that, OP spec which been out for whole year!

 

Ye 1 vs 1 Shadow/Sin would win against Smash, but in a wz the Smash outdouble all other DPS!

Also Scoundrel/Operatives won't get spot in the ranked as a DPS, cause before them are Shadows/Sins.

Also Shadows/Sins have minimal chance of getting there, cause before them are the Marauder/Sentinel (Carnage/Combat)

 

Also for your info people, the Carnage/Combat Mara/Sent, are more preferred for ranked because they are (but most people doesn't get it) Tank killers (although people don't think about it).

I think it's the only class that has ability ONLY on 14 seconds CD that let you penetrate opponents Armor by 100% for 3-5 seconds!

 

So if you spec a Marauder/Sentinel (Carnage/Combat) into 130%-140% Accuracy, and let him go on Tank.

When the Mara/Sent use his Armor Penetration 100%, the guy basicly takes damage like a normal DPS.

 

140% Acc (neglece defense raiting of Tank) + 100% (Armor penetration) = 30k dmg from full Ravege on Tank

[ProKsnNwk]

Umm, really. Whining about Shadows/Sins....

Why not whine about the Smash, its still OP, so how Shadows/Sins compare to that, OP spec which been out for whole year!

 

Ye 1 vs 1 Shadow/Sin would win against Smash, but in a wz the Smash outdouble all other DPS!

Also Scoundrel/Operatives won't get spot in the ranked as a DPS, cause before them are Shadows/Sins.

Also Shadows/Sins have minimal chance of getting there, cause before them are the Marauder/Sentinel (Carnage/Combat)

 

Also for your info people, the Carnage/Combat Mara/Sent, are more preferred for ranked because they are (but most people doesn't get it) Tank killers (although people don't think about it).

I think it's the only class that has ability ONLY on 14 seconds CD that let you penetrate opponents Armor by 100% for 3-5 seconds!

 

So if you spec a Marauder/Sentinel (Carnage/Combat) into 130%-140% Accuracy, and let him go on Tank.

When the Mara/Sent use his Armor Penetration 100%, the guy basicly takes damage like a normal DPS.

 

140% Acc (neglece defence rating of Tank) + 100% (Armor penetration) = 30k dmg from full Ravage on Tank

 

 

1 more thing - Assassins/Shadows doesn't have boosted Damage Reduction when they exit stealth

- it's only when they use their Blackout while OUT OF STEALTH

(and they have to spec into it, high-middle of Deception/Infiltration tree).

[biowareftw]

Umm, really. Whining about Shadows/Sins....

Why not whine about the Smash, its still OP, so how Shadows/Sins compare to that, OP spec which been out for whole year!

 

Ye 1 vs 1 Shadow/Sin would win against Smash, but in a wz the Smash outdouble all other DPS!

Also Scoundrel/Operatives won't get spot in the ranked as a DPS, cause before them are Shadows/Sins.

Also Shadows/Sins have minimal chance of getting there, cause before them are the Marauder/Sentinel (Carnage/Combat)

 

Also for your info people, the Carnage/Combat Mara/Sent, are more preferred for ranked because they are (but most people doesn't get it) Tank killers (although people don't think about it).

I think it's the only class that has ability ONLY on 14 seconds CD that let you penetrate opponents Armor by 100% for 3-5 seconds!

 

So if you spec a Marauder/Sentinel (Carnage/Combat) into 130%-140% Accuracy, and let him go on Tank.

When the Mara/Sent use his Armor Penetration 100%, the guy basicly takes damage like a normal DPS.

 

140% Acc (neglece defense raiting of Tank) + 100% (Armor penetration) = 30k dmg from full Ravege on Tank

 

You are one shotting tanks as carnage with ravage?

 

Coolest story I ever heard man. Tell me more about this ravage ability. Does it autocrit to negate block as well?

 

Inquiring minds want to know.

Edited April 22, 2013 by biowareftw

[Calvin_Mago]

Give this forum 2 weeks and it is going to EXPLODE, when people get to 55 and see how stupid this class is atm. Good luck with all the propaganda, trying to get the class to stay like this! Better get those excuses and BS arguments ready (even though I have busted them all in this thread).

 

I will say...I told you so.

LOL at this guy telling us how its going to be at 55 when he hasn't even hit 55 and has only been playing in the broken lowbies.

[biowareftw]

LOL at you thinking the 55 bracket is anything special, with people running around with 350 k augments (each) and pooled points from other chars with legacy gear. I watched a ranked earlier. No calling targets. Derps just running around with heals and occasionally someone dying. No hard switches, no calling out healing debuffs. Nothing. Half the team on voice com didn't even know if they controlled a pylon (LOL). This has got to be the least skilled ranked, with the least talented playerbase playing ranked I have ever seen in an MMO. You can watch the stream, it is probably still on this page.

 

I have 4 chars with maxed ranked/regulars. I can be the best geared anything tomorrow. Derp I wonder why I am picking the shadow first.

 

Oh they and other characters have slicing. So while you idiots wasted 7-8 million for dead brackets full of undergeared scrubs, playing kids who blew their whole money stash?

 

Smart people pocketed more money then you will ever see in this game on thermal's, when we read patch notes and understood that the price of them is going to skyrocket down on patch day, and THAT is when we will augment/gear our chars.

 

Grats brah! My char will be better geared then yours on tuesday, with a !@$@ ton of cash. GG. Now go ask your mom to buy you some cartel packs.

 

I could add that bolster is more f'd up at 55 then in any bracket, and most people don't even know about double procs on par/conq power trinkets. But yeah it is SRS business atm. The games are so intense man! Healing is perfectly balanced and all that matters is if you have a char with enough mitigation to make it easier on the healer, in a big battle of attrition lol.

 

I wonder why they are fixing things at 55 on tuesday. I know! Because it is working so perfectly! But yeah you are right, higher health pools, with less crit damage for the op/scoundrel and still having jack @$@$ for mitigation, will surely make them better. Makes perfect sense.

Edited April 22, 2013 by biowareftw

[stephenalandavie]

There are alot of attacks which pack a much heavier punch and have more survivability tools right now then the assassin. The post above isn't lying either about Carnage being a tank killer. I put out higher numbers with carnage on good matches. Once a deception assassin is focused by several and ranged especially he is toast.

[Avicii]

TBH it's hard to take this guy seriously when he's been on a crusade for 2 weeks about Sins but when has he ever gone on a balance rage like this about other classes? If you are really concerned about balance which should be what we all hope for even though it will never occur, attacking 1 class isn't the way to achieve it.

 

And constantly bringing up OPs in the comparison really doesn't add strength they are different classes with different strengths and weaknesses.

 

I don't think any class should drop another with no time to react or respond and since the last patch I haven't seen it maybe its happening under the right circumstances or a lucky string of crits idk. Lets see what changes for bolster on Tuesday and hopefully some tuning for TTK will be done after that or with it.

 

Continue raging good Sir.

[Kurvv]

I'm curious as to whether anyone on Pot5 can back this guy's claims of always leading dps on all his chars. Playing a shadow, I'm always on the lookout for really good shadows/sins. There's 4 or 5 shadows I know of who consistently play the class to its full potential, and biowareftw is not one of them. If he is as amazing as he purports I think I would've noticed him, but maybe we've just never been in the same wz.

[Calvin_Mago]

@biowareftw

 

Dude, you're all over the place. At first you were all, 'assassins hit 8k mauls, nerf them!' And now after I call you out for not understanding that the 55 bracket is completely different than the broken lowbies, you start saying that assassins make operatives obsolete because they have higher mitigation from blackout in the 55 healfest!

 

If you think operatives need more love than just say so, rather than going some bizarre whining crusade against another class. It's ridiculously small minded of you to want to see another class nerfed than your class buffed. Looks like you want things to stay like 1.7 where the only assassins and operatives in ranked were the tank node guarder and the operative healer - which, by the look of things, it's going to turn out the same way in 2.0.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Calvin_Mago

[Polymerize]

I'm curious as to whether anyone on Pot5 can back this guy's claims of always leading dps on all his chars. Playing a shadow, I'm always on the lookout for really good shadows/sins. There's 4 or 5 shadows I know of who consistently play the class to its full potential, and biowareftw is not one of them. If he is as amazing as he purports I think I would've noticed him, but maybe we've just never been in the same wz.

 

Hang on, you want someone to clarify whether or not he leads the DPS charts on his characters- so you can determine whether he is a top player or not? Especially concerned about the DPS he does on his assassin?

 

LUL.

[Kurvv]

Hang on, you want someone to clarify whether or not he leads the DPS charts on his characters- so you can determine whether he is a top player or not? Especially concerned about the DPS he does on his assassin?

 

LUL.

 

I want someone to confirm whether he's doing what he says he's doing, so I can decide whether to take him seriously or not. There's a long way from me paying attention to him to me considering him a top player. I don't expect anyone to come on here and give me a detailed breakdown of his objective play, how well he peels, how well he focuses, or how well he taunts, because even though those things are important, they aren't what most people remember at the end of the day.

 

Don't fall off your high horse.

[DarthMaulUK]

Until biofail fix bolster, its hard to tell what is going on right now with any of the classes. All I can say is that the Assassin/Shadow was one of the most diverse classes around given that it could be viable with a mixture of skill trees and hybrids.

 

However, right now, the only viable tree is deception and that is a shame. Congrats Biofail on making the Sin a generic class in a generic MMO

[Paulman]

I'm curious as to whether anyone on Pot5 can back this guy's claims of always leading dps on all his chars. Playing a shadow, I'm always on the lookout for really good shadows/sins. There's 4 or 5 shadows I know of who consistently play the class to its full potential, and biowareftw is not one of them. If he is as amazing as he purports I think I would've noticed him, but maybe we've just never been in the same wz.

 

Not sure who he is but it really should not matter. Debate the points he is making instead of going after his character. I have yet to hear of a class that hard counters shadow/sins yet they hard counter several.

[Darthdaedric]

Not sure who he is but it really should not matter. Debate the points he is making instead of going after his character. I have yet to hear of a class that hard counters shadow/sins yet they hard counter several.

 

The sniper/gunslinger has many tools designed specifically for countering stealth classes, and I know from experience, that the sharpshooter gunslinger tears through them like nothing.

Terrific stealth detection, 360 knockback, roots, a couple of stuns, and one bleed to prevent them from cloaking.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Darthdaedric

[ProKsnNwk]

You are one shotting tanks as carnage with ravage?

 

Coolest story I ever heard man. Tell me more about this ravage ability. Does it autocrit to negate block as well?

 

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Well, I have lvl 50 Sentinel and lvl 55 Marauder, I have lvl 55 Assassin, and lvl 50 Shadow.

I use both classes, and yes the Carnage/Combat Marauder with Gore and 140% Acc is a Tank Killer hitting total of around 20k-30k dmg in 4 seconds.

[Cerdo_hormiguero]

The OP is somewhat correct . . . for the sub-55 brackets. In that bracket, Shadows/Assassins indeed regularly crit for +8k (my record being +11k).

 

BUT it is not remotely true in the 55 bracket. With Conq weapon, 2 other pieces of Conq, the rest Partisan, AND double power relics, SS/Maul averages 4k according to my logs (with crits typically being around 5k vs. 28k-35k hp). I have never noted another Shadow out-damaging me (all things considered, e.g. if neither of us are guarding a node, etc.). And it takes at least 2 of me to kill a decent Operative/Scoundrel healer.

 

Regarding Operative/Scoundrel dpsers, they are extremely competitive. I do find that they tend to get slightly less Scoreboard dmg (probably due to the prevalence of Smash, which Shadows/Assassins mitigate better -- which is an issue with Smash, not Shadows/Assassins). But saying, in 55, that they get dominated by Shadows/Assassins 1v1 is completely false. I frequently fight an excellent Operative enemy on my server and it is a dead-even match-up. When I catch him, I have a huge advantage; when he catches me, he has just as big of an advantage and doles out as much burst. And then there is the godly utility of Scamper, which probably won't get a much-needed cooldown for weeks or months . . .

[Monterone]

The OP is somewhat correct . . . for the sub-55 brackets. In that bracket, Shadows/Assassins indeed regularly crit for +8k (my record being +11k).

 

BUT it is not remotely true in the 55 bracket. With Conq weapon, 2 other pieces of Conq, the rest Partisan, AND double power relics, SS/Maul averages 4k according to my logs (with crits typically being around 5k vs. 28k-35k hp). I have never noted another Shadow out-damaging me (all things considered, e.g. if neither of us are guarding a node, etc.). And it takes at least 2 of me to kill a decent Operative/Scoundrel healer.

 

Regarding Operative/Scoundrel dpsers, they are extremely competitive. I do find that they tend to get slightly less Scoreboard dmg (probably due to the prevalence of Smash, which Shadows/Assassins mitigate better -- which is an issue with Smash, not Shadows/Assassins). But saying, in 55, that they get dominated by Shadows/Assassins 1v1 is completely false. I frequently fight an excellent Operative enemy on my server and it is a dead-even match-up. When I catch him, I have a huge advantage; when he catches me, he has just as big of an advantage and doles out as much burst. And then there is the godly utility of Scamper, which probably won't get a much-needed cooldown for weeks or months . . .

 

^^

Exactly.

 

Whoever initiates the fight should end up the victor. These two classes are very, very similar in dps output, escapes, damage mitigation and so on, if played by equally good players.

[Paulman]

The sniper/gunslinger has many tools designed specifically for countering stealth classes, and I know from experience, that the sharpshooter gunslinger tears through them like nothing.

Terrific stealth detection, 360 knockback, roots, a couple of stuns, and one bleed to prevent them from cloaking.

 

Seems like good shadow/sins will still own them even good ones. I see it all the time. Doesn't seem like a hard counter at all.

[Briljin]

Theres a reason warzones are full of them i will give you a hint i just got hit for a 8k maul.

 

I have been hit far harder than that by other classes, right now everyone seems to be hitting much harder then before.

[Darthdaedric]

Seems like good shadow/sins will still own them even good ones. I see it all the time. Doesn't seem like a hard counter at all.

 

Prove it.

I told you why it's a hard counter, explained all the things Snipers/Gunslingers have to combat them and all you said "nuh-uh, 'cause there's the one guy I know...

If they're getting owned by them, they're not doing it right. They have all the tools they need to take them down without breaking a sweat.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Darthdaedric

[dcgregorya]

Yeah, I've hit 8k mauls with my deception sin. I've hit a 10k maul too but that was with broken bolster before they patched it. About 8500 is the largest legit hit so far.

 

I've also been hit with an 11k smash and a 9k heatseeker missile. One of those is an AoE.

 

I'm all for balance, let's start with the biggest hitters first though.

 

Only one of those 3 skills is spammable.

[dcgregorya]

Let me show just how clueless you people are.

 

I've got a shadow and a scoundrel (and one of everything else - including sentinel, etc) and this guy is spot on. Sorry but sins just plain out class scrappers/concealment ops. A medpack plus decent kiting = win vs scrapper whereas the deceptsin has a handful of 10m skills and even one decent 30m skill (recklessness -> FL) that makes kiting them significantly less effective and the deceptsin has far better defenses so they're not going to instantly melt when you open fire on them.

[RankorSSGS]

Only one of those 3 skills is spammable.

 

Spamming maul means that all but 2 of them WILL NOT BE PROCCED. Know what that means? Means 30% less damage, and exactly half our Force, each. Play the class before you cry, because you obviously have no clue how it works. Maul spam is about the worst way to play an Assassin.