Disappointed about so-called "New In Game Barber-Shop"

[DarthZak]

What's similar about STO and TOR? I've been under the impression that in STO, space is where its at, and TOR, its all about the ground game.

 

The mode of play is the similarity. The execution might be a bit different but for example WoW, TOR, STO are in the same corner of MMO's whilst RO, MS are in a different corner and EVE:O is its own thing

 

Look at the target audience of TOR and see who shares that same audience

[DaRoamer]

Yup, whats your point though? Basic stuff is still free in that game and thats what we're arguing here

 

Interesting. Which of those games allow you buy items from the market with real money and sell them for in-game money?

[Kahotep]

It seems to me that this is a classic straw man argument. The OP has decided to call this feature a "Barber Shop" and points to the various "free" Barber Shops that exist in other MMOs.

 

However, a feature that lets you change every aspect of the appearance of your character (eye colour, body type, even race) is not a "Barber Shop", it's character customization. Every MMO I've played that had character customization has charged real money for that.

[DaRoamer]

By the way, Tera sells appearance changes on the market. The game is free and also has a sub option.

 

http://www.terafans.com/news/344-premium-services-novelty-items-now-available/

 

It seems to me that this is a classic straw man argument. The OP has decided to call this feature a "Barber Shop" and points to the various "free" Barber Shops that exist in other MMOs.

 

However, a feature that lets you change every aspect of the appearance of your character (eye colour, body type, even race) is not a "Barber Shop", it's character customization. Every MMO I've played that had character customization has charged real money for that.

 

Yes, especially since they offer species change which is something you need to buy from the cash shop in games like EQ2.

Edited March 22, 2013 by DaRoamer

[DarthZak]

Interesting. Which of those games allow you buy items from the market with real money and sell them for in-game money?

 

Hmm mustve misread your question, my apologies

 

Dont know to be honest but this is a perk for people who have money and not people who have a sub and thats the point here, people dont want to spend rl money

[Aumeer]

It seems to me that this is a classic straw man argument. The OP has decided to call this feature a "Barber Shop" and points to the various "free" Barber Shops that exist in other MMOs.

 

However, a feature that lets you change every aspect of the appearance of your character (eye colour, body type, even race) is not a "Barber Shop", it's character customization. Every MMO I've played that had character customization has charged real money for that.

 

The only feature that is not usually in a barber shop is a species change. I don't think that many here would argue that the species change should cost coins, but every other is available as an in game currency purchase in most other games. I myself am upset that Bioware is using the species change to justify throwing in the barbershop at a cartel coin price.

[Vandicus]

Mcdonalds sells hamburgers and Pizza Hut sells pizzas. You can still compare their choices in management and success.

 

I'm mildly confused. You seem to have abandoned your previous stance of extremely similar.

 

The mode of play is the similarity. The execution might be a bit different but for example WoW, TOR, STO are in the same corner of MMO's whilst RO, MS are in a different corner and EVE:O is its own thing

 

Look at the target audience of TOR and see who shares that same audience

 

While he maintains this position. What do you mean by mode of play? Themepark vs Sandbox I think is a bit too wide to claim close similarity. SWG and EVE are both considered sandboxes for example, but EVE isn't very similar to what SWG was at all. Do you mean that the game is largely centered around WoW style end game pve and pvp?

[jggoodyard]

I guess what we subscribers do now is just tough it out until elder scrolls online launches.

Cause these stupid people dont understand that if you do not feel forced to buy somthing but you want it then you will buy it.

 

Put these things up there on the cartel market but also put them ingame for subs or even ftp to get. Most people will STILL buy it cause they want it but are lazy and do not feel like grinding to get it.

 

If people feel they dont have to buy it on the cm then they try to farm for it. But while they are trying to farm for it the whole time they have a voice in their head saying "bro its X bucks.. just get it" they then have an internal argument with themselves and the market will usually win this. And guess who is the idiot when they end up hating what they purchased. Themselves..

[Vandicus]

The only feature that is not usually in a barber shop is a species change. I don't think that many here would argue that the species change should cost coins, but every other is available as an in game currency purchase in most other games. I myself am upset that Bioware is using the species change to justify throwing in the barbershop at a cartel coin price.

 

Will it still matter to you if the GTN cost ends up being extremely low and the CC cost is largely nominal(say the price of the jawagram)? Is this more of a pricing/inconvenience issue, or a matter of principle that Bioware shouldn't sell haircuts for CC and whatnot?

[Aumeer]

I'm mildly confused. You seem to have abandoned your previous stance of extremely similar.

 

 

 

While he maintains this position. What do you mean by mode of play? Themepark vs Sandbox I think is a bit too wide to claim close similarity. SWG and EVE are both considered sandboxes for example, but EVE isn't very similar to what SWG was at all. Do you mean that the game is largely centered around WoW style end game pve and pvp?

My stance remains the same. Both games are MMO's targeting a similar audience with similar game play mechanics. The difference we are discussing is their choice in regards to how they implement their content and how they choose to sell it.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Aumeer

[DarthZak]

By the way, Tera sells appearance changes on the market. The game is free and also has a sub option.

 

http://www.terafans.com/news/344-premium-services-novelty-items-now-available/

 

 

Yes, especially since they offer species change which is something you need to buy from the cash shop in games like EQ2.

 

Not in Europe theyre not

https://forum.tera-europe.com/showthread.php?t=134834&highlight=barbershop

 

It seems to me that this is a classic straw man argument. The OP has decided to call this feature a "Barber Shop" and points to the various "free" Barber Shops that exist in other MMOs.

 

However, a feature that lets you change every aspect of the appearance of your character (eye colour, body type, even race) is not a "Barber Shop", it's character customization. Every MMO I've played that had character customization has charged real money for that.

 

No actually common sense has decided its a barber shop

What about those of us who just want to change our hair? Should we pay because BW is too lazy to make a decent changer? Or are you saying we're collateral damage?

[Jacen_Starsolo]

I've never played STO, so I've got a few questions to ask to get a better understanding.

 

So a faction comes with its own unique quest chains then in STO?(this seems implied that its not simply a label)

How does the base game to max level compare?

Is there voice work comparable to TOR's in scope?

How many years did it take them to make this?(sounds long promised)

Is it really reasonable to measure the content release on the scale of a few months for STO?(in other words, is it possible for them to regularly deliver that every few months)

 

They just did their 3 year anniversary. TOR did 1. Both anniversaries close enough. TOR in late December and STO is first week of February. Giving that to show a sort of idea. I think they started development though close to the same time. STO took about 18 months to go live.

 

Right now it's in Season 7. Seasons are their "big updates" although some were bigger than others tbh.

 

They have had 4 featured series which are added in mission chains not attached to any kind of update. Each premiered with special rewards. So they do FE reruns which means those rewards return. The FE's are permanent just the special rewards are not.

 

Oh and the holiday event, let's just say I was playing their event because it was a real event and not just a mount in their store that looked like a lawn mower with Christmas lights.

 

I guess this next one will be Season 8. They didn't really call it Season 8 yet but I'm guessing the Klingon 25 levels and Romulan 50 levels might be called that. They actually called it "STO's first expansion". And when I said the expac word, I thought about RotHC and what was first said about not being one then calling it one to charge. So I thought "Oh no they didn't. They are going to charge for this now." But their community guy posted "It's free."

 

Now two things about that "it's free" thing. First with 2 months until release, doubt that's going to change. And 2, Cryptic got a blasting when they tried to charge for a 5 level thing in Champions Online. And when the fan base exploded, they listened and ended up giving Vibora Pay free (real name is Vibora Bay but got renamed when the people were told it was a charge on it). Problem was Lemuria was buggy and Vibora was the alternative zone so hearing charge for avoiding bugs didn't go over well to say the least. Giving history since you said you haven't been there.

 

Back to the years on them making this. It wasn't 3 years. Thing is the first EP for STO probably would have had Romulans out 2 years ago. Zink was all about pumping out content and bugs be damned. When he left and Dstahl took over, he was the opposite kind of guy. Fix the bugs before taking another step. So content took a hit but bugs got fixed. Then he left and the guy who replaced him was a flat out dummy and I wish I could say what I want but it's bannable. lol So Dstahl comes back.

 

As for VO work, you know there is no MMO with as much VO work as this one. That's this game's claim to fame and they even used it as part of marketing for launch. However, since this game came out, STO has been adding more VO work with new content release. Just the old content they are not going back and voicing it.

 

Again, this is an expansion by their own admission even though it's free. So no it won't be released as much every month or two. That's like saying we should expect Makeb type releases as frequently. But 7 big updates, with a couple of level raises added in, and four FE's in 3 years.

[DarthZak]

While he maintains this position. What do you mean by mode of play? Themepark vs Sandbox I think is a bit too wide to claim close similarity. SWG and EVE are both considered sandboxes for example, but EVE isn't very similar to what SWG was at all. Do you mean that the game is largely centered around WoW style end game pve and pvp?

 

Mode of play is the general style and market of western MMO's, you know the one dominated by WoW?

Im not considering genre's because like you said SWG and EVE are different games yet the same genre

 

STO, WoW, TOR, Rift, DDO however can be considered the same type of MMO since they corner the same market and are direct competitors of eachother

Also the playstyle (havent played STO so not sure about that) is all-over pretty much the same

[DaRoamer]

Not in Europe theyre not

https://forum.tera-europe.com/showthread.php?t=134834&highlight=barbershop

 

According to that page they don't even offer the service there. So now you're claiming they don't charge for a service that doesn't exist in game? Wow, talk about moving the goal posts.

 

By the way, you also don't get any free cash shop currency with your TERA subscription. So they're 0 for 2.

[BrianDavion]

It seems to me that this is a classic straw man argument. The OP has decided to call this feature a "Barber Shop" and points to the various "free" Barber Shops that exist in other MMOs.

 

However, a feature that lets you change every aspect of the appearance of your character (eye colour, body type, even race) is not a "Barber Shop", it's character customization. Every MMO I've played that had character customization has charged real money for that.

 

go play STO, go play champions online. they both offer it for free

[Jacen_Starsolo]

Can you buy items on the shop and sell them on the marketplace in those games?

 

Are you asking if you can buy something on the store and sell for in-game currency in STO like you can in TOR? Yes you can. Actually they also allow you to buy coins with dilithium (one of their currencies). But you can sell items on their AH.

 

One thing I have to give TOR a heads up on though that is sort of related to this. In STO the packs (called lockboxes) drop all over the place and take up inventory space. However you have to buy a key from the store or off their AH to open those boxes. At least the packs here are not being thrown at your inventory space.

 

However, I like GW2's way over both games. I have opened their boxes with keys that dropped off mobs. And their boxes sometimes even have keys inside. But that's another topic but I rank GW2 then TOR then STO in that race so to speak.

[DaRoamer]

go play STO, go play champions online. they both offer it for free

 

Go play TERA, they charge for it.

[DarthZak]

According to that page they don't even offer the service there. So now you're claiming they don't charge for a service that doesn't exist in game? Wow, talk about moving the goal posts.

 

By the way, you also don't get any free cash shop currency with your TERA subscription. So they're 0 for 2.

 

If theyre not offering theyre also not charging

 

And Im not seeing the customization here

http://tera.enmasse.com/game-guide/store-items

 

Do you?

 

And also they offer a lot more with their subs than TOR does from what Ive seen

Edited March 22, 2013 by DarthZak

[Vandicus]

<snip>

 

Do they do content updates outside of these seasons?

 

The seasons sound larger than our average .X patch, but typically smaller than the upcoming Season 8. What patch or combination of patches would you say most compares to an average season size?

 

Sort of on a tangential note, do you think STO has benefited from their f2p, through increased/better content updates? My experience with DDO has been that it became a much better game, but its always interesting to hear about other f2p games. I knew a lifetime subber who complained bitterly about STO near its launch, though it sounds like they've made significant progress since then.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Vandicus

[Aumeer]

Do they do content updates outside of these seasons?

 

The seasons sound larger than our average .X patch, but typical smaller than the upcoming one. What patch or combination of patches would you say most compares to an average season size?

 

Sort of on a tangential note, do you think STO has benefited from their f2p, through increased/better content updates? My experience with DDO has been that it became a much better game, but its always interesting to hear about other f2p games. I knew a lifetime subber who complained bitterly about STO near its launch, though it sounds like they've made significant progress since then.

 

Instead of constantly asking question after question, why don't you just type out your opinion or observations on the subject.

[CelCawdro]

The only worrying thing here, for me, is that BioWare is using the complimentary coins as an excuse to rely more heavily on the Cartel Market. I was under the impression that they were supposed to be a "bonus" - something to spend freely, as a gift. Not something that needs to be hoarded and saved to access game features that would have otherwise been in the game, proper.

 

Yet again, something that was formerly taken as a rare sign of good will from BioWare has been contorted to a point where it is somewhat of an affront to subscribers (even if a minor one). Those complimentary coins should not be labelled "complimentary" if BioWare is going to use them as an excuse to funnel more things into the market that could have been used in the core game.

[Vandicus]

My stance remains the same. Both games are MMO's targeting a similar audience with similar game play mechanics. The difference we are discussing is their choice in regards to how they implement their content and how they choose to sell it.

 

You're suggesting that they should be marketed to in a similar fashion then? As I have heard it, STO's character appearance customization features are better than TOR's and considered one of its strong selling points. Do you believe TOR should then be trying to expand its character customization options and offer them at an equivalent price(in this case free) in order to entice more players to join?

[DaRoamer]

Are you asking if you can buy something on the store and sell for in-game currency in STO like you can in TOR? Yes you can. Actually they also allow you to buy coins with dilithium (one of their currencies). But you can sell items on their AH.

 

One thing I have to give TOR a heads up on though that is sort of related to this. In STO the packs (called lockboxes) drop all over the place and take up inventory space. However you have to buy a key from the store or off their AH to open those boxes. At least the packs here are not being thrown at your inventory space.

 

However, I like GW2's way over both games. I have opened their boxes with keys that dropped off mobs. And their boxes sometimes even have keys inside. But that's another topic but I rank GW2 then TOR then STO in that race so to speak.

 

Somehow I think you're not telling the whole truth here:

 

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=458031

 

"Yes but right now they have a very low value on the exchange, when they were introduced they could get you 20k each. Its the keys that are valuable and those you have to buy for zen, which you pretty much have to buy with real world money, currently you'd need about 18000 Dilithium to buy the zen for 1 key.

 

The market for used stuff between players is the Exchange, there are terminals at most starbases, at the Sol Spacedock its in the blue area."

 

Doesn't sound like the utopia you're claiming it to be.

[Aumeer]

You're suggesting that they should be marketed to in a similar fashion then? As I have heard it, STO's character appearance customization features are better than TOR's and considered one of its strong selling points. Do you believe TOR should then be trying to expand its character customization options and offer them at an equivalent price(in this case free) in order to entice more players to join?

 

Again you post a response in a format that reminds me of the scenes in CSI type shows where the investigator attempts to get a confession. It is pretty clear from the last few pages of this thread that the only posts from supporters(?) of the CM barbershop are questions trying to put people who do not like it up against a wall.

[Vandicus]

Instead of constantly asking question after question, why don't you just type out your opinion or observations on the subject.

 

Merely gaining some proper understanding of the situation. Having next to no knowledge of STO, its rather difficult for me to engage in a discussion regarding it. I have typed my opinion earlier in the thread, though understandably its buried at this point. The barber shop is cosmetic, and as such I don't really care whether its paid or free. Most of the things I find interesting about this subject is that a species change reflects a willingness to ignore past story and dialogue that might signal they are warming up to the idea of faction switches(though without a continuous story), and the aspect of deciding that something can be CC paid for because subscribers are already getting CC.