winterjane Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 And I'm going away happier after seeing the official response that came up while I was cross-posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritinblack Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hey, guys -- We care a lot about the fact that you care about the appearances of your characters. In fact, the Mod system is my baby, largely because it allows players to customize their appearance to your liking. We have another, similar, one of my babies coming in the near future, which will allow even greater customization (you guys may have seen me hinted about it in recent interviews). Short form: this is real important to me, and we're not happy that we've created a situation that makes people unhappy. We didn't think through the ramifications of the bugfix that we've made, and we're acutely aware of the financial angle (cartel coins as well as in-game credits on the GTN) involved. We are still discussing potential fixes to the issue -- and there will be fixes -- but there are ramifications to all fixes. Players should keep in mind that previously, we had players who were upset in the other direction. We have a couple of directions that we can go, but we need to explore a couple of things, and regardless, it is not a fix that can happen instantaneously. I do think we can get something in a patch very soon. We are pretty sure we can avoid a solution that forces players to spend additional cartel coins, and I'm not interested in letting a situation linger that leaves the player's faith in what we are offering on the cartel market in a reduced state. It is incredibly important to me, and the rest of the SW:TOR team, that players have a high degree of confidence in the market as a whole, and how we deal with issues like this. This has been a learning experience for us, and won't happen again. In short: we'll fix this. Give us a little time to do so. Damion Schubert Lead Designer, SWTOR And there you go..... Right there.... What you just said. You communicated, you understood what was going on, and you are going to try and fix it. That was something easily said. Some are going to troll it, but I bet a lot that see it that are upset, will take a breather about it. Now, just follow through. We have seen many posts from devs, forum mods, that just plainly, are lip service. I thank you for coming out and saying what you did. ( even though i have nothing ventured in this fiasco ) It seems you have a little more of a grasp on what situations like this can do...... Want to let others in your camp know how to be like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oofalong Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I applaud BW, Joveth & Damion for taking this seriously and planning to take corrective actions. Thanks and hopefully all of the vitriol wasn't too disheartening to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taorus Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Having made your purchase of the cartel pack, with real world money as you are fond of pointing out, the most likely outcome would be that it didn't contain a Phantom chestpiece. If you carried on until you gained one and found it wasn't as advertised then you could sell it on the GTN, They were selling well, around the 300K+ mark, coincidentally that's about the same price unopened Cartel packs go for on the GTN. Can you see the connection here? Sell your unwanted Phantom chestpiece on the GTN, purchase a new Cartel Pack or one of the others without affected items in it and you have not lost out, if anything you'll have made a small profit. There is a very real exchange mechanism in place, albeit over an auction house, between in game virtual credits and cartel coins purchased with real money. So, can we agree that we have both been cheated of the item we desired. But, whereas you have not suffered any loss (item was unbound, could be resold on GTN), those of us that spent time and in some cases cartel coins as well have (item bound, no resale value). See, You are trying to justify your position. I WANTED THE ADVERTISED SET...I DIDN'T GET IT. I sought out information....IE the F O R UM S. Just like you did yesterday. Only I did it when the pack was released. BioWare STATED THEN it would be CORRECTED. So, YES I COULD HAVE SOLD IT. BUT WHY WOULD I WHEN IT WAS GOING TO BE CORRECTED. Even now BioWare continues to advertise the set....as it was meant to be http://www.swtor.com/buy#cartelcoins?intcmp=sor_bwa-mkt-t-us-hp-014 Middle of the page....right below where you purchase,wait for it.....Cartel Coins.....for real world currency. So as you see...you are WRONG. This is how the set was INTENDED. An as for the lame argument...well players are in the game, they don't know this change is coming. You all sure seem to have found the forums now. I found them a month ago....When this issue first came up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelther Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) Players should keep in mind that previously, we had players who were upset in the other direction. I'm glad you recognise this. I'm happy to see that you are trying to find a solution to make both sides happy. Edited January 9, 2013 by Aelther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taorus Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hey, guys -- We care a lot about the fact that you care about the appearances of your characters. In fact, the Mod system is my baby, largely because it allows players to customize their appearance to your liking. We have another, similar, one of my babies coming in the near future, which will allow even greater customization (you guys may have seen me hinted about it in recent interviews). Short form: this is real important to me, and we're not happy that we've created a situation that makes people unhappy. We didn't think through the ramifications of the bugfix that we've made, and we're acutely aware of the financial angle (cartel coins as well as in-game credits on the GTN) involved. We are still discussing potential fixes to the issue -- and there will be fixes -- but there are ramifications to all fixes. Players should keep in mind that previously, we had players who were upset in the other direction. We have a couple of directions that we can go, but we need to explore a couple of things, and regardless, it is not a fix that can happen instantaneously. I do think we can get something in a patch very soon. We are pretty sure we can avoid a solution that forces players to spend additional cartel coins, and I'm not interested in letting a situation linger that leaves the player's faith in what we are offering on the cartel market in a reduced state. It is incredibly important to me, and the rest of the SW:TOR team, that players have a high degree of confidence in the market as a whole, and how we deal with issues like this. This has been a learning experience for us, and won't happen again. In short: we'll fix this. Give us a little time to do so. Damion Schubert Lead Designer, SWTOR Thank you Sir. I don't envy your situation. I hope this is the biggest issue you have to face today. Smooth sailing from here. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnave Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hey, guys -- We care a lot about the fact that you care about the appearances of your characters. In fact, the Mod system is my baby, largely because it allows players to customize their appearance to your liking. We have another, similar, one of my babies coming in the near future, which will allow even greater customization (you guys may have seen me hinted about it in recent interviews). Short form: this is real important to me, and we're not happy that we've created a situation that makes people unhappy. We didn't think through the ramifications of the bugfix that we've made, and we're acutely aware of the financial angle (cartel coins as well as in-game credits on the GTN) involved. We are still discussing potential fixes to the issue -- and there will be fixes -- but there are ramifications to all fixes. Players should keep in mind that previously, we had players who were upset in the other direction. We have a couple of directions that we can go, but we need to explore a couple of things, and regardless, it is not a fix that can happen instantaneously. I do think we can get something in a patch very soon. We are pretty sure we can avoid a solution that forces players to spend additional cartel coins, and I'm not interested in letting a situation linger that leaves the player's faith in what we are offering on the cartel market in a reduced state. It is incredibly important to me, and the rest of the SW:TOR team, that players have a high degree of confidence in the market as a whole, and how we deal with issues like this. This has been a learning experience for us, and won't happen again. In short: we'll fix this. Give us a little time to do so. Damion Schubert Lead Designer, SWTOR That's good to hear, because I hope to keep my Spymaster's Chestguard as it is now. It looks just awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyxali Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hey, guys -- We care a lot about the fact that you care about the appearances of your characters. In fact, the Mod system is my baby, largely because it allows players to customize their appearance to your liking. We have another, similar, one of my babies coming in the near future, which will allow even greater customization (you guys may have seen me hinted about it in recent interviews). Short form: this is real important to me, and we're not happy that we've created a situation that makes people unhappy. We didn't think through the ramifications of the bugfix that we've made, and we're acutely aware of the financial angle (cartel coins as well as in-game credits on the GTN) involved. We are still discussing potential fixes to the issue -- and there will be fixes -- but there are ramifications to all fixes. Players should keep in mind that previously, we had players who were upset in the other direction. We have a couple of directions that we can go, but we need to explore a couple of things, and regardless, it is not a fix that can happen instantaneously. I do think we can get something in a patch very soon. We are pretty sure we can avoid a solution that forces players to spend additional cartel coins, and I'm not interested in letting a situation linger that leaves the player's faith in what we are offering on the cartel market in a reduced state. It is incredibly important to me, and the rest of the SW:TOR team, that players have a high degree of confidence in the market as a whole, and how we deal with issues like this. This has been a learning experience for us, and won't happen again. In short: we'll fix this. Give us a little time to do so. Damion Schubert Lead Designer, SWTOR /cheer thank you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayeri Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hey, guys -- We care a lot about the fact that you care about the appearances of your characters. In fact, the Mod system is my baby, largely because it allows players to customize their appearance to your liking. We have another, similar, one of my babies coming in the near future, which will allow even greater customization (you guys may have seen me hinted about it in recent interviews). Short form: this is real important to me, and we're not happy that we've created a situation that makes people unhappy. We didn't think through the ramifications of the bugfix that we've made, and we're acutely aware of the financial angle (cartel coins as well as in-game credits on the GTN) involved. We are still discussing potential fixes to the issue -- and there will be fixes -- but there are ramifications to all fixes. Players should keep in mind that previously, we had players who were upset in the other direction. We have a couple of directions that we can go, but we need to explore a couple of things, and regardless, it is not a fix that can happen instantaneously. I do think we can get something in a patch very soon. We are pretty sure we can avoid a solution that forces players to spend additional cartel coins, and I'm not interested in letting a situation linger that leaves the player's faith in what we are offering on the cartel market in a reduced state. It is incredibly important to me, and the rest of the SW:TOR team, that players have a high degree of confidence in the market as a whole, and how we deal with issues like this. This has been a learning experience for us, and won't happen again. In short: we'll fix this. Give us a little time to do so. Damion Schubert Lead Designer, SWTOR Damion, thank you. I realize that people had expectations based on a picture I barely glanced at, because I rely on previews rather than advertising pics. You made them happy. Sadly, in doing so, it destroyed the looks many of us thought were some of the best armor sets you guys have put out. I understand that, and I'd like to think most of the people reading this thread understand it, too, in spite of the mind-numbing bickering going on in this thread. My history? I got a cartel pack and got part of the spymaster set. I'd been keeping an eye out for something for my operative to wear and that was so cool that my GM, out of nothing more than his kindness and generosity, bought me the other half. I'd been looking HARD for my assassin. I wanted pants for her, but female-wearable pants for a Sith inquisitor who leveled without a partner to get social points with... well, that's nearly impossible. Just a note for your art department. Inquisitors dont always want to be drapy and flowy in their gear! Then I stumbled across the Phantom chest and loved it, in its old look, mind you. After some careful research of making sure the spymaster pants would color match well, I knew that was precisely the look I wanted for my assassin. A guildie gifted me a set of Spymaster pants and another gave me a Phantom upper body set. I have awesome guildies. I shared the look I'd created with the guild and there were those who like it so much, they did it for their characters. It made me really happy that other people like it so much they wanted it the same or a very similar look for their characters. I was deliriously happy with the looks of my assassin and my operative both. I even laughingly said that the spymaster set was a special suit designed to work with the stealth generator that my operative was field-testing. =) I did see the note in the patch notes, but didn't really think about it a lot (it was early and I hadn't had caffeine yet) and logged in yesterday morning to complete and utter shock and dismay. Not one, but BOTH my cherished looks had been ... well, destroyed. People here can crow about forum notes and you should have known all they want. It doesn't change the fact I had looks on two characters that were awesome and perfect and they were both wrecked by this change. I feel for those who wanted the updated looks and what they went through, but the rest of us shouldn't have to suffer the same loss they did for that. I will be watching and waiting, with bells, whistles, and any other whoop-it-up noisemaker I can find for when we can get our much-loved looks back. =) Thank you again, Damion, and Joveth, too, for going to bat for us all. I really appreciate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karaiblis Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) As long as this fix isn't to offer us even more hideous armor with a third breast, chest smooshing gender bending top wraps, and HORRID BUTT FLAPS, then fine. These were the only options in game for that, and they are all gone, just give us something without all the crap every single other piece of gear comes with and happiness achieved. It's not like asking for one single option in a whole game of the otherstuff is unreasonable, and the pain people feel is because for one brief shining month, it was finally offered. Edited January 9, 2013 by Karaiblis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarn_Sirun Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hey, guys -- We care a lot about the fact that you care about the appearances of your characters. In fact, the Mod system is my baby, largely because it allows players to customize their appearance to your liking. We have another, similar, one of my babies coming in the near future, which will allow even greater customization (you guys may have seen me hinted about it in recent interviews). Short form: this is real important to me, and we're not happy that we've created a situation that makes people unhappy. We didn't think through the ramifications of the bugfix that we've made, and we're acutely aware of the financial angle (cartel coins as well as in-game credits on the GTN) involved. We are still discussing potential fixes to the issue -- and there will be fixes -- but there are ramifications to all fixes. Players should keep in mind that previously, we had players who were upset in the other direction. We have a couple of directions that we can go, but we need to explore a couple of things, and regardless, it is not a fix that can happen instantaneously. I do think we can get something in a patch very soon. We are pretty sure we can avoid a solution that forces players to spend additional cartel coins, and I'm not interested in letting a situation linger that leaves the player's faith in what we are offering on the cartel market in a reduced state. It is incredibly important to me, and the rest of the SW:TOR team, that players have a high degree of confidence in the market as a whole, and how we deal with issues like this. This has been a learning experience for us, and won't happen again. In short: we'll fix this. Give us a little time to do so. Damion Schubert Lead Designer, SWTOR Speaking of faith and confidence, why do the cartel packs have items that cannot be obtained al le carte? because they make more money by making people buy packs with the better items as a carrot leading the masses to giving you cash. Get rid of the packs and sell every item separately, that is how you will build faith and confidence. Oh and one more thing, put this in the next cartel market update as a new adaptive armor set...... http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150513539505400&set=pb.630435399.-2207520000.1357748330&type=3&theater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsheraII Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hey, guys -- We care a lot about the fact that you care about the appearances of your characters. In fact, the Mod system is my baby, largely because it allows players to customize their appearance to your liking. We have another, similar, one of my babies coming in the near future, which will allow even greater customization (you guys may have seen me hinted about it in recent interviews). Short form: this is real important to me, and we're not happy that we've created a situation that makes people unhappy. We didn't think through the ramifications of the bugfix that we've made, and we're acutely aware of the financial angle (cartel coins as well as in-game credits on the GTN) involved. We are still discussing potential fixes to the issue -- and there will be fixes -- but there are ramifications to all fixes. Players should keep in mind that previously, we had players who were upset in the other direction. We have a couple of directions that we can go, but we need to explore a couple of things, and regardless, it is not a fix that can happen instantaneously. I do think we can get something in a patch very soon. We are pretty sure we can avoid a solution that forces players to spend additional cartel coins, and I'm not interested in letting a situation linger that leaves the player's faith in what we are offering on the cartel market in a reduced state. It is incredibly important to me, and the rest of the SW:TOR team, that players have a high degree of confidence in the market as a whole, and how we deal with issues like this. This has been a learning experience for us, and won't happen again. In short: we'll fix this. Give us a little time to do so. Damion Schubert Lead Designer, SWTOR Thank you VERY much, Damion. May I direct you to this thread on the suggestion forum with ideas that might appeal to "both sides" of this rather heated discussion? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=583089 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Speaking of faith and confidence, why do the cartel packs have items that cannot be obtained al le carte? because they make more money by making people buy packs with the better items as a carrot leading the masses to giving you cash. Get rid of the packs and sell every item separately, that is how you will build faith and confidence. Oh and one more thing, put this in the next cartel market update as a new adaptive armor set...... http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150513539505400&set=pb.630435399.-2207520000.1357748330&type=3&theater "The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hey, guys -- We care a lot about the fact that you care about the appearances of your characters. In fact, the Mod system is my baby, largely because it allows players to customize their appearance to your liking. We have another, similar, one of my babies coming in the near future, which will allow even greater customization (you guys may have seen me hinted about it in recent interviews). Short form: this is real important to me, and we're not happy that we've created a situation that makes people unhappy. We didn't think through the ramifications of the bugfix that we've made, and we're acutely aware of the financial angle (cartel coins as well as in-game credits on the GTN) involved. We are still discussing potential fixes to the issue -- and there will be fixes -- but there are ramifications to all fixes. Players should keep in mind that previously, we had players who were upset in the other direction. We have a couple of directions that we can go, but we need to explore a couple of things, and regardless, it is not a fix that can happen instantaneously. I do think we can get something in a patch very soon. We are pretty sure we can avoid a solution that forces players to spend additional cartel coins, and I'm not interested in letting a situation linger that leaves the player's faith in what we are offering on the cartel market in a reduced state. It is incredibly important to me, and the rest of the SW:TOR team, that players have a high degree of confidence in the market as a whole, and how we deal with issues like this. This has been a learning experience for us, and won't happen again. In short: we'll fix this. Give us a little time to do so. Damion Schubert Lead Designer, SWTOR Are there plans to compensate players that paid the higher prices for the grade 7 space equipment only to find that it was judged too expensive and droped in price in yesterdays patch? While not making changes in the same way as Phantom and Spymaster gear with the heroic space ops bugged as they are players that purchased this equipment in good faith find that they have paid far more than people purchasing a few weeks later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hey, guys -- SNIP... We are pretty sure we can avoid a solution that forces players to spend additional cartel coins, and I'm not interested in letting a situation linger that leaves the player's faith in what we are offering on the cartel market in a reduced state. It is incredibly important to me, and the rest of the SW:TOR team, that players have a high degree of confidence in the market as a whole, and how we deal with issues like this. This has been a learning experience for us, and won't happen again. In short: we'll fix this. Give us a little time to do so. Damion Schubert Lead Designer, SWTOR Great post but I would suggest you try really, really hard on creating a solution that does not "Force players to spend additional cartel coins" beyond what they already spent just to circumvent the design errors you have created. As in try a hell of a lot harder then you did fixing similar graphic issues such as the one with companion lightsabres, or the double bladed lightsabre bug or any of the numberious bugs that need fixing, been told they are fixed and yet. There still there. However, you made a decent post about this ONE issue. Now get to work. Show the paying player base you actually have good intentions to make things right and not at an additional cost to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cave_Dweller Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Aaaaaand... /thread Who wants a hug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Great, thanks for putting resolution on the burner Damion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PifferPuff Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hey, guys -- We care a lot about the fact that you care about the appearances of your characters. In fact, the Mod system is my baby, largely because it allows players to customize their appearance to your liking. We have another, similar, one of my babies coming in the near future, which will allow even greater customization (you guys may have seen me hinted about it in recent interviews). Short form: this is real important to me, and we're not happy that we've created a situation that makes people unhappy. We didn't think through the ramifications of the bugfix that we've made, and we're acutely aware of the financial angle (cartel coins as well as in-game credits on the GTN) involved. We are still discussing potential fixes to the issue -- and there will be fixes -- but there are ramifications to all fixes. Players should keep in mind that previously, we had players who were upset in the other direction. We have a couple of directions that we can go, but we need to explore a couple of things, and regardless, it is not a fix that can happen instantaneously. I do think we can get something in a patch very soon. We are pretty sure we can avoid a solution that forces players to spend additional cartel coins, and I'm not interested in letting a situation linger that leaves the player's faith in what we are offering on the cartel market in a reduced state. It is incredibly important to me, and the rest of the SW:TOR team, that players have a high degree of confidence in the market as a whole, and how we deal with issues like this. This has been a learning experience for us, and won't happen again. In short: we'll fix this. Give us a little time to do so. Damion Schubert Lead Designer, SWTOR I am truly elated that you are paying attention to our views and concerns. I think I can guess what your new "baby" is. I wish you well on that undertaking, as I eagerly look forward to it (thanks for the update btw). One potential fix that has been suggested by some players, in this thread and a few others, is to place a droid on the fleets (even if it's temporary - like the crystal vendor from nearly a year ago) that allows for like-for-old-like gear swapping (i.e. I put in new version of Spymaster's chest piece in, and it gives me the original "incorrect" version). This, I think, would be the best solution, as it fixes the problem while greatly minimizing any negative ramifications. I look forward to an expedient solution that makes everyone happy. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lium Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 being a Pro-Troll isn't really much of an accomplishment (lol, just messin.. sorry, hadda go there XD). Pointing out that he can read the forums is trolling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterjane Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Groooooooooooooooooup hug! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrastella Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 As for changing it to what it looked like on the pack, I could barely even SEE what it looked like on the pack. Using the preview function it was clear what it looked like, no one would be forced to buy it if they didn't like how it looked. They should have just changed the pack icon to match the old look and then added another set that looks like the new appearance instead of screwing over those who bought it based on what it looked like in preview. I can bet there are probably way more people who bought it based on its preview and actual appearance than people who didn't bother looking at the preview and bought it blindly based on icon appearance. Seriously, who are these people who buy armour based on how it looks in the cartel pack promo image and not by how it looks on their character in the preview function? I spent creds and CC to get my orange set and I'm totally disappointed it got changed overnight :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryRow Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hey, guys -- <snip> Damion Schubert Lead Designer, SWTOR Hey Damion, how busy would you say you are? Do you have enough spare time to do Joveth's job too? This is the kind of communication we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rootbeer Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hey, guys -- We care a lot about the fact that you care about the appearances of your characters. In fact, the Mod system is my baby, largely because it allows players to customize their appearance to your liking.... ....This has been a learning experience for us, and won't happen again. In short: we'll fix this. Give us a little time to do so. Damion Schubert Lead Designer, SWTOR Damion, First off thanks for posting something on this matter. We need more communication like this. I personally believe you'd sell many more outfits if we had an actual appearance outfit tab. If a player wants to use the appearance tab they must be a subscriber or pay x amount of cartel coins to unlock. Appearance tab would let us wear any armor of our class type or any adaptive armor. I'd prefer to actually have another category of outfits and just have them only available as appearance. Give us another storage tab for a closet. Need more closet space, charge credits or cartel coins. Come out with different appearance outfits every month. Throw in special ones in the cartel packs. Surprise some people and throw some in a pvp "cartel like" pack. Then throw some rare ones in the drop loot for Nightmare ops. Could do the same with weapons, but the appearance items would have to match your current weapon. I would buy more outfits myself, but how it is currently it's just too expensive to switch all the mods in and out. That charge can stay, just give us an appearance tab please. And a closet and an option for a shared closet among our toons on a server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Good to hear the correct and thoughtful response, Damion. This, as you so accurately mentioned, is a critical moment for the F2P model. It was an honest oversight, but with massive ramifications. I understand it'll take time to clean up, yet you certainly do appreciate the scope, long term, of this. It's fairly safe to say that, contrary to my initial belief, SW:TOR is heading in the positive direction fiscally. Seems tons of people are spending money on packs. More then I expected. You guys gotta keep that gravy train running, so I fully expect in a few weeks you'll come up with a means to make both sides happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuffystuffs Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 But I like the new Phantom nooooo. My Marauder has a black-hooded thing finally! The new Spymaster can go though Hoping there's a way those that like the new and old can be happy...glad to hear they're working on it at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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