AlienEyeTX Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The answer to this question is different for everyone, but we have all seen what a PATCH is in TOR, and I think we all can agree that an EXPANSION should be a lot larger in scope then a PATCH. Now what do I mean by Larger ? I mean Content. Not, man hours, budget, or size of the world. I am talking about GAMEPLAY FEATURES that allows the players to do something fresh and new. Not just a single feature mind you, but many features are required when you throw the word EXPANSION around. Now the Developers can choose to expand Horizontally (New Ideas..<Hard>) , or they can choose to expand Vertically (Build on what you got..<Easy>) But most times, an EXPANSION incorporates BOTH. So based on what I have seen so far with the last several PATCHES ( Update 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc ) here is what I am expecting for an EXPANSION. - At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.) - At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.) - At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.) - At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.) - At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. ) - At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.) - Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.) - Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.) - New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.) Now that is what I would call a decent $19.99 Expansion Pack. Anything short of that, is a PATCH. Thank you for sharing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The Expansions you are thinking of are the full £39.99 Expansions that MMOs like WoW put out. Expansion is the wrong word for Makeb I think, its more of a Adventure Pack - It is bigger than a patch but smaller than an expansion. In the older days of MMOs, these were more common - EQ2 has had a few of them also that were paid for. If it was a Expansion sitting at £39.99 then yes I would expect most of what you listed but as it is not then the argument becomes invalid. It seems the word Expansion is the problem, not Makeb. I think it's that SWTOR is missing a lot of the modern day mmo stuff. I underlined the relevant part of your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 $9.99! :d:d:d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uziforyou Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The Expansions you are thinking of are the full £39.99 Expansions that MMOs like WoW put out. Expansion is the wrong word for Makeb I think, its more of a Adventure Pack - It is bigger than a patch but smaller than an expansion. In the older days of MMOs, these were more common - EQ2 has had a few of them also that were paid for. If it was a Expansion sitting at £39.99 then yes I would expect most of what you listed but as it is not then the argument becomes invalid. It seems the word Expansion is the problem, not Makeb. This guy has it right but players expecting the moon for nothing is standard fare in SWTOR. This thread proves once again that EA/Bioware will never, ever be able to meet a lot of peoples expecations. They will always fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrshabaalLord Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The answer to this question is different for everyone, but we have all seen what a PATCH is in TOR, and I think we all can agree that an EXPANSION should be a lot larger in scope then a PATCH. Now what do I mean by Larger ? I mean Content. Not, man hours, budget, or size of the world. I am talking about GAMEPLAY FEATURES that allows the players to do something fresh and new. Not just a single feature mind you, but many features are required when you throw the word EXPANSION around. Now the Developers can choose to expand Horizontally (New Ideas..<Hard>) , or they can choose to expand Vertically (Build on what you got..<Easy>) But most times, an EXPANSION incorporates BOTH. So based on what I have seen so far with the last several PATCHES ( Update 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc ) here is what I am expecting for an EXPANSION. - At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.) - At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.) - At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.) - At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.) - At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. ) - At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.) - Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.) - Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.) - New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.) Now that is what I would call a decent $19.99 Expansion Pack. Anything short of that, is a PATCH. After reading this, I just had to log in. This... is beyond dumb. You're expectations are beyond the roof and what are expected at a $40 EXPANSION. No matter what you think or say this is a expansion. Why? -Increased level cap -New planet -New skills -New gear And other POSSIBILITIES: -New warzone/Operation Thats more than any patch we've gotten. Its EXPANDING the level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Unreasonable expectations are unreasonable. If this were a 49.99 expansion, I'd agree with a lot more of this, but at $10 - $20 and knowing what we already know these expectations are completely unreasonable. - At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.) I'll be pleasantly surprised if we get 1. - At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.) I'll be pleasantly surprised if we get 1. - At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.) It's already been officially state multiple times that Cathar is the next races and no others till they see how it goes. It's also been said that Cathar will not be in Makeb. - At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.) This will be there. - At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. ) With them saying there's no new class story you can bank on this not being there. - At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.) They've already confirmed this. - Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.) You're dreaming. The way classes/stories are linked to factions this would be impossible without either multiple new classes or hours and hour of VO work to make existing classes work with the 3rd faction. Never going to happen. - Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.) 5 levels. - New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.) This is yet to be seen, but I think this is a reasonable expectation. Now that is what I would call a decent $19.99 Expansion Pack. Anything short of that, is a PATCH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlin Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Expansion that rises level cap and provides content aimed to people sitting at current lvl cap is an expansion aimed mainly for those who currently deal with end game. Yet, it apparently provides no relevant new end game content. Not a single vague mention of Operations or FPs anywhere to be found. It's ridiculous. Does not compute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxades Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Right now RotHC look more like a BioWare DLC then an expansion. Which is fine and worth $10, but I do hope that they are planning on a major ($40 to $50) expansion sometime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Expansion that rises level cap and provides content aimed to people sitting at current lvl cap is an expansion aimed mainly for those who currently deal with end game. Yet, it apparently provides no relevant new end game content. Not a single vague mention of Operations or FPs anywhere to be found. It's ridiculous. Does not compute. Except what does compute is the phrase, "More to be announced in the coming months" While that does leave a number of things up in the air, it does mean we should not be making any decisions on what the digital expansion will have for content (or not have) until those coming months are actually here. That is also the reason I have not given them my $10 yet. I need a little more info. But as far as speculation goes. I expect to see some endgame FP's and Ops for the new level 55. It's almost a must given a new level cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Expansion that rises level cap and provides content aimed to people sitting at current lvl cap is an expansion aimed mainly for those who currently deal with end game. Yet, it apparently provides no relevant new end game content. Not a single vague mention of Operations or FPs anywhere to be found. It's ridiculous. Does not compute. Don't forget that they say more info will be released in the coming months. We don't know everything about the expansion yet. Calm down and be patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldRepJedi Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 A patch is something that EAWare hasn't figured out how to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth__Carnal Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) Let's clear the air, everyone saying it's only 10 dollars. No. It's 10 dollars if you pre-order. If not, the content is valued at 19.99. So Bioware considers the amount of content to be worth $19.99. Most Expansions are $19.99 to $29.99. If we look at Expansions that SWG released. They usually went for 29.99, and deserved the title, EXPANSION. One of two things need to be addressed. Either the price needs to be beefed up and offer the amount of content I suggested, or drop the word, EXPANSION. Because the way it sounds, EA and Bioware wants to throw out Huge words like, FREE 2 PLAY, and EXPANSION, but are not being completely being honest with what those words truely mean to gamers. For example, MOST, not some, MOST Korean Free to Play MMOs, offer you the ENTIRE game for free, INCLUDING EXPANSIONS. The burden falls on those Developers to deliver content the community wants on a frequent basis. EA / Bioware wants the cash first, then do the work second. Edited December 21, 2012 by Darth__Carnal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencer_ Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 - At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.) - At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.) - At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.) - At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.) - At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. ) - At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.) - Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.) - Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.) - New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.) Having all of those things be included seems like it would cost $40. Specifically the new Class/Faction bits. We know Rise of the Hutts will include 1 New Planet, Level Cap Increase, and Some new Skills and Abilities. There will probably be 1 New Species (Cathar). If it includes 1 New Warzone and 1 New Operation, then I will feel okay paying $20. If it only contains a planet, level increase, and Cathar well... I pre-ordered yesterday, so I'm fine paying $10 for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAMossimo Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 There will probably be 1 New Species (Cathar). People keep lumping this in to inflate the value of the so called expansion but it isn't true. They have already stated Cathar are going to be sold in the Cartel Store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeeke Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 People keep mentioning the pricing of this expansion compared to other MMO expansions, but lets be honest, with the amount of content announced so far for this expansion, this would be released as a content patch for free in other MMO's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DataBeaver Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Let's clear the air, everyone saying it's only 10 dollars. No. It's 10 dollars if you pre-order. If not, the content is valued at 19.99. So Bioware considers the amount of content to be worth $19.99. Most Expansions are $19.99 to $29.99. No, it's 10 dollars if you're a subscriber and 20 dollars if you're F2P. The pre-order gets you five days of early access and doesn't affect the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalabakk Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Patch = bugs for free Expansion = pay for bugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelious Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 OP are you kidding or what? There can't be different opinions about difference between expansion and patch. Patch simply fixes bugs. It doesn't add any new significant content. Expansion adds new playable content. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenter Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 No, it's 10 dollars if you're a subscriber and 20 dollars if you're F2P. The pre-order gets you five days of early access and doesn't affect the price. Yeah, this is how I understand it aswell. It's valued at 20 dollars if you're not paying monthly. If you are, it's valued at 10. A lot less than a SWG or a WoW expansion, where you had the price + a sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubernetic Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Technically, a patch is any addition to the existing game code. This is because usually it's just updating parts of the existing code and not a completely reformulated application. It's just "patching" the old application, like patching holes in a tire. An expansion is obviously something that adds more to the game than previously existed. Technically, I think this would include any real additions at all... even a new tier of gear would be a minor expansion of a kind. In frequent use, I think expansion is used to cover a much larger addition, such as in this case, a brand new planet, 5 new levels, possibly a new species to play, etc. Even though an expansion would count as a patch, I think patch is usually referred to as small, concise fixes to existing things, while the expansion significantly expands the game's range of experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Apparently the difference is $10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 In the minds of crazed gamers, who knows, but in REAL, non-gaming software, a patch FIXES features, an expansion ADDs features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzagheru Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Patch = bugs for free Expansion = pay for bugs hilarious and true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) EDIT: Let's clear the air, everyone saying it's only 10 dollars. No. It's 10 dollars if you pre-order. If not, the content is valued at 19.99. You misread their promotional material. The expansion is 10 dollars for subscribers. Not if you pre-order. Pre-order gets you 5 days early access. Edited December 21, 2012 by SnoggyMack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roalmo Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 In the minds of crazed gamers, who knows, but in REAL, non-gaming software, a patch FIXES features, an expansion ADDs features. Hmmm.. seen 2 guys with this "opinion". Strange.. So we've already had some expansions for free right? new WZ, etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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