Lostpenguins Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 To get him I am force to do pvp durr. Not my choice. And pvp content os for pvp and not pve Yeah... to get him you have to PvP. Guess what... there are also titles you have to PvP to get those. No one forces you to get those titles. No one is forcing you to get HK. You are choosing to. The path started with choice. Hence... you weren't forced into anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xboblee Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Are you sure about that? Cuz I've definitely killed plenty of Pubs on my guy while questing in Ilum. So yes, you can use companions for PvP. You just can't in Outlaws Den because it's considered an outside warzone. So... his point still stands and you're wrong. And again your point is wrong cause there you have a choise about haveing a flag on, just like any planet your chose not being force to have it on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 ACTUALLY thinking you CAN, I tried to bring my Doc into the area... and it said "Companions are disabled"... no can do! you can't use companion even in OPEN WORLD PvP... so your point is moot Is that truly the case? I would like to know, because if you can my argument is moot and I concede. If it is not, then the argument stands (naturally as only my opinion mind you, which means next to nothing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumZed Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 this argument can go both ways... optional or not, both camps are... forced or not, everything you do sort of are... it is optional to do the quests to acquire him... but if you decide to, you are FORCED to go into PvP area... to participate in PvP or not is another choice, and you are not forced to attack, but if the opposing party choose to, then you're screwed. When I went into the area, first time, I got killed by a shadow and his commando friend... I didn't retaliate, I didn't care... *like mentioned previously* I tried then to go in with my doc, but no... it didn't let me... so I just sucked it up and headed straight to the vendor... getting around the area, I see a TON of pub toons... scanning the ground (?!?!?) ... ignoring them, and crossing my finger that none of them will attack me or mezz before I can get to the vendor, (as I already know it's the last item in the list I have to buy, I was ready to click) and got to him and bought the parts without them even "noticing" me... or even cared more like... I got out just fine... 10 mins later, my guildie was literally cussing his head off because a "bunch of Pubs are camping the NPC and preventing them from getting it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Since the stated premise does support the proposed conclusion in that respect, I contend that you may need to touch up on how exactly a strawman argument would be defined. At the very least it would be best to understand the argument instead of judging it a failure based on a lack of intuition for it's intent. I have to say I really enjoyed reading this rebuttle. Well worded! I hope to god for their sake they are not my camp. That would not bode well for them lol. Aye! That would be for the best! As many discussions as we have had Urael I think its pretty safe to say you know I am my own camp It was in regards to this line of debate but, I suspect you already knew that. The same could be said of many of us that regularly post here I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinSpaghetti Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 You mean like the way they make pvpers PvE to get him? What do you need a new comp for if you only go in warzones all day long? Generally speaking a companion is a PvE pet and you shouldn't need to fight other players in order to obtain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 ^This. Not to mention all the OWPvP on Tatooine (not in OLD) and Hoth (at least on Shadowlands)! Well, then, my argument, IMO is invalid. If you can use a companion in PVP, even in minute form it is still considered a PVP aid and therefore could be open to PVP use. In that case one could argue that it is fair game. People can still dislike having to enter a PVP area to acquire the companion, but its possible use in PVP qualifies it, IMO, as a possible PVP tool and therefore can require being open to PVP play to acquire it. Just my opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) What do you need a new comp for if you only go in warzones all day long? Generally speaking a companion is a PvE pet and you shouldn't need to fight other players in order to obtain it. OWPvP and Dailies. Edited November 16, 2012 by Urael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumZed Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) my point being, if you get flagged, either accidentally or by healing/reviving a player who's already flagged, then it's your fault, but heading into an area that forces the flag on you, and prevents you from using your companion, that is NOT PvP... obviously we're talking about a PvE server here right? on a PvP server, ALL my arguments are invalid because you're playing for the sake of PvPing... but on a PvE server I expect to not be attacked by other players unless I wanted to... (self set flag, or warzone) Edited November 16, 2012 by SumZed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I have to say I really enjoyed reading this rebuttle. Well worded! Aye! That would be for the best! It was in regards to this line of debate but, I suspect you already knew that. The same could be said of many of us that regularly post here I think! Fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymitsu Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Nice try. You aren't burying this problem by deleting threads. Here's a re-post of the previous thread regarding HK-51 parts appearing in Outlaw's Den: Dear PvPers, We know some of you have been asking for world PvP for a while now. So we decided for our new companion mission to send every single person playing the game to the Free For All PvP zone to get one of the parts they need. Especially those players who have no interest in PvP in any form whatsoever. No, no, don't worry... you don't have to go look for them once they get there. See, they can't actually excavate the part (like the mission log says they can), they have to buy it from an NPC vendor, standing out in the open, in plain view, with absolutely no way of hiding or sneaking past you. Feel free to butcher and grief them over and over again to your hearts content. It's a FFA PvP zone after all so that means they aren't allowed to complain to us. Love, Bioware. And for the sake of completeness, the most common griefer responses: Just wait a few days until people stop camping. Behold the troll's favorite response to this complaint. Bioware? Take note here please. The proposed solution by the grifers in your community is for me to not play your game right now. Are we starting to see the problem yet? Some other stuff about complaining because end game content isn't easy. Wrong. We are complaining about the percentage of players who are actively campaigning to prevent us from achieving end game content for no reason other than lulz. You don't get valor for this, you don't earn commendations, you don't get any reward. Please feel free to define this in terms that does not make it griefing. A bunch of nonsense comparing this to doing a hard mode. No, actually, it's quite different. Even one skilled PvE healer or tank who knows what they are doing can carry your sorry butt through a hard mode. Especially one like Foundry. No one can get carried through PvP. It's been pounded into the ground how Expertise makes it pointless for people who don't PvP to even try so I'll skip that this time. And it still comes back to you, "the masterful PvP player" actively spending time accomplishing absolutely nothing but preventing someone else from achieving a PvE objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xboblee Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 my point being, if you get flagged, either accidentally or by healing a companion who's already flagged, then it's your fault, but heading into an area that forces the flag on you, and prevents you from using your companion, that is NOT PvP... obviously we're talking about a PvE server here right? on a PvP server, ALL my arguments are invalid because you're playing for the sake of PvPing... but on a PvE server I expect to not be attacked by other players unless I wanted to... (self set flag, or warzone) I am talking pve sever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymitsu Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Just in case they decide to lock this thread again. Putting these in here as well so they won't get completely destroyed. And for the sake of completeness, the most common griefer responses: Just wait a few days until people stop camping. Behold the troll's favorite response to this complaint. Bioware? Take note here please. The proposed solution by the grifers in your community is for me to not play your game right now. Are we starting to see the problem yet? Some other stuff about complaining because end game content isn't easy. Wrong. We are complaining about the percentage of players who are actively campaigning to prevent us from achieving end game content for no reason other than lulz. You don't get valor for this, you don't earn commendations, you don't get any reward. Please feel free to define this in terms that does not make it griefing. A bunch of nonsense comparing this to doing a hard mode. No, actually, it's quite different. Even one skilled PvE healer or tank who knows what they are doing can carry your sorry butt through a hard mode. Especially one like Foundry. No one can get carried through PvP. It's been pounded into the ground how Expertise makes it pointless for people who don't PvP to even try so I'll skip that this time. And it still comes back to you, "the masterful PvP player" actively spending time accomplishing absolutely nothing but preventing someone else from achieving a PvE objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smexymage Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 You know what is required to get HK, so you just need to ask youeself, do I want to do what is required to get it? If not, then dont complain. If you do then go for it. It mixes the game up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 And again your point is wrong cause there you have a choise about haveing a flag on, just like any planet your chose not being force to have it on Are you forced to get HK-51? No. Therefore, you aren't forced to PvP in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) 8< -Snip- >8 How hard is it really, to log in early in the morning and get your part then activate your quick travel and leave? Your post is rated "E" sir... rated "E". Edited November 16, 2012 by Urael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymitsu Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) <redacted> Edited November 16, 2012 by Tonymitsu Wrong thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumZed Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Just in case they decide to lock this thread again. Putting these in here as well so they won't get completely destroyed. And for the sake of completeness, the most common griefer responses: Behold the troll's favorite response to this complaint. Bioware? Take note here please. The proposed solution by the grifers in your community is for me to not play your game right now. Are we starting to see the problem yet? Wrong. We are complaining about the percentage of players who are actively campaigning to prevent us from achieving end game content for no reason other than lulz. You don't get valor for this, you don't earn commendations, you don't get any reward. Please feel free to define this in terms that does not make it griefing. No, actually, it's quite different. Even one skilled PvE healer or tank who knows what they are doing can carry your sorry butt through a hard mode. Especially one like Foundry. No one can get carried through PvP. It's been pounded into the ground how Expertise makes it pointless for people who don't PvP to even try so I'll skip that this time. And it still comes back to you, "the masterful PvP player" actively spending time accomplishing absolutely nothing but preventing someone else from achieving a PvE objective. precisely... on a PvE server, I expect to be left in peace, unless I choose to be challenged... (warzone, or flag myself) again, this whole argument is only happening on PvE servers precisely because we CHOSE to play on a PvE... if you SERIOUSLY want to go and be a jerk about it, it should've happened on PvP servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymitsu Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) How hard is it really, to log in early in the morning and get your part then activate your quick travel and leave? Your post is rated "E" sir... rated "E". I work for a living. And I need to sleep at night. And do things when I wake up. Logging in when the these kiddies are at school isn't always practical for me. Edited November 16, 2012 by Tonymitsu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumZed Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Are you forced to get HK-51? No. Therefore, you aren't forced to PvP in this game. let's consider it this way, let's say your class quest requires you to go into Outlaw's Den... (which doesn't happen... for a reason) will you complain? no? well you're not FORCED to advance your class story neither! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelAlkaiser Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Just curious, have you actually gone to get your part yet and been griefed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) precisely... on a PvE server, I expect to be left in peace, unless I choose to be challenged... (warzone, or flag myself) again, this whole argument is only happening on PvE servers precisely because we CHOSE to play on a PvE... if you SERIOUSLY want to go and be a jerk about it, it should've happened on PvP servers. I play on a PvE server (3 of them in fact in you include RP PvE) heck I even play on PvE servers in WoW. I am NOT a big PvPer. I don't find these requirements restrictive at all. There are SOOOOOOO many ways around this that it is made trivial if not moot. If anything it's a bigger kick in the teeth to people that ONLY want to PvP to have to do the HM OP than it is for a PvEr run into a very small area (which can be done in off hours when no one is usually on if you are really that scared) to buy the item instead of having to get it as a drop of a Boss Mob in the HM OP. Edited November 16, 2012 by Urael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymitsu Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Just curious, have you actually gone to get your part yet and been griefed? Yep. Whole guild of PvPers on Thursday. They killed everyone but their own members who approached the vendor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 let's consider it this way, let's say your class quest requires you to go into Outlaw's Den... (which doesn't happen... for a reason) will you complain? no? well you're not FORCED to advance your class story neither! Yeah, you're right. Your class quest doesn't require you to go into a Outlaw's Den. Hence, there's nothing in your class quest that is PvP required. HK-51 isn't part of your class quest. He's an optional companion. The key being "OPTIONAL"... meaning you don't have to have him. Therefore, you still don't have to PvP in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xboblee Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Are you forced to get HK-51? No. Therefore, you aren't forced to PvP in this game. Omg to get the hk you are force to, what part are you not understanding the stuff being typed here. On pvp severs yea the best luck to. Buton a pve server you shouldnt be touch at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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