Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Sharee]

*Sigh*

 

Just... *Sigh*

 

The issue is the system allows those with higher skill/competitive level/advantages, or whatever you wanna call it to be placed against those with lower (whatever is the least offensive quantifier).

 

I've said this multiple times. Other people consistently want to argue the problem is full 8-man Premades vs Full PuGs... which is only one facet of what causes lopsided matches.

 

I'm tired of repeating myself.

 

It is, however, a huge facet.

 

Don't get me wrong, you are correct in what you wrote above. However it is human nature that good players attract good players and they tend to band together to boost their success rate even higher. If you remove the problem of premades vs pugs, the issue of players of uneven skill facing eachother won't go away completely, but will be severely reduced.

 

Because as long as premades never face pug's, it means those good players will either face other good players in a group vs group match, or they give up their grouping, and will be evenly distributed and mixed with pug-ers, and the random nature of pugs will ensure wins and losses will be evenly distributed as well, and lopsided matches will become an exception, rather than the rule.

 

(this was just a side comment. I agree that matchmaking is the best solution - as long as it is feasible to implement for bioware)

[Vasagi]

*Sigh*

 

Just... *Sigh*

 

The issue is the system allows those with higher skill/competitive level/advantages, or whatever you wanna call it to be placed against those with lower (whatever is the least offensive quantifier).

 

I've said this multiple times. Other people consistently want to argue the problem is full 8-man Premades vs Full PuGs... which is only one facet of what causes lopsided matches.

 

I'm tired of repeating myself.

 

You could always leave out the snarky condescension. That would mean less typing. Again and again all I see you post is "prove it". Just because you want to drag down the conversation doesn't mean the rest of us don't have well defined ideas or solutions.

 

I am pretty stunned at the amount of people who say communication over vent or whatever is overrated. NOTHING causes pugs to lose more often than defenders not calling out for help. If you really think being able to communicate over voicechat rather than typing is not an advantage, you and I are not even talking about the same game.

[cashogy_reborn]

Don't try looking too smart because everyone here know how it works.

 

A RWZ guild forms those 4 men premades for the off-hours or to gear up alts "farming bads". They try to slip in 2 groups to form the "double premade in regular WZ effect" that most have experienced on their skin one day or another.

Non RWZ guilds may form 4 men but those groups are half as strong. Those who really want to be competitive, in fact, don't join those "half attempt guilds" but go directly to a RWZ grade guild, those who don't, tend to form:

 

- less geared 4 men, because being in a non RWZ guild does not allow them to gear up at competitive levels;

- "organic" groups with tank, healer etc. Competitive RWZ guilds form more FOTM setups - they play to win and hard.

 

Basically you are trying to slip in two different approaches to playing group WZs that look similar but have drastically different results. I end up playing every day with non RWZ guild 4 men premades, those carry our team well enough to win against randoms but if a RWZ guild 4 men joins in, they get rolled. Less than true randoms but still get rolled.

 

lets clear something up.

 

competitive PvPers =/= a**hat trolls. i cant speak for everyone, but im willing to bet that most of the regular RWZ players enjoy playing with/against PUGs as much as you do (read: WE HATE IT). its boring.

 

all of these arguments are based on false assumptions, and this is the biggest of them.

 

do you know why 4 members of a guild that does RWZ will group up and do regs in the off-hours?

- cuz they want to play the game

- they want to PvP

- they want to play with friends

- they want to make sure that at least half their group is competent

 

the image of evil premade players cackling maniacally behind their monitors at the demise of another PUG team is almost entirely false. yes, a few of those type of people exist. but they are nowhere near the majority.

 

 

i will agree that there needs to be a separating mechanism. skill base matchmaking is the best way to do that imo.

 

 

the bolded part is a massive contradiction btw. you like when the premades are on your team and carry you to victory against other PUG teams, but you dont like when there is a better 4-man premade on the other side that beats you even if you have a 4-man of your own to carry you? that right there is the root of this problem -> bads dont like losing to better players.

[maverickmatt]

lets clear something up.

 

competitive PvPers =/= a**hat trolls. i cant speak for everyone, but im willing to bet that most of the regular RWZ players enjoy playing with/against PUGs as much as you do (read: WE HATE IT). its boring.

 

all of these arguments are based on false assumptions, and this is the biggest of them.

 

do you know why 4 members of a guild that does RWZ will group up and do regs in the off-hours?

- cuz they want to play the game

- they want to PvP

- they want to play with friends

- they want to make sure that at least half their group is competent

 

the image of evil premade players cackling maniacally behind their monitors at the demise of another PUG team is almost entirely false. yes, a few of those type of people exist. but they are nowhere near the majority.

 

 

i will agree that there needs to be a separating mechanism. skill base matchmaking is the best way to do that imo.

 

 

the bolded part is a massive contradiction btw. you like when the premades are on your team and carry you to victory against other PUG teams, but you dont like when there is a better 4-man premade on the other side that beats you even if you have a 4-man of your own to carry you? that right there is the root of this problem -> bads dont like losing to better players.

 

 

Actually, a couple posts back I told story. A story about 2 RWZ guilds running multiple 4 man teams so they could get comms to "gear alts".

 

So in essence, they were running ranked teams against casual players to buy gear for alts which they were not playing on at the time. This is allowed by the system, but again I would argue that it is harmful to the community.

 

I would call that "farming pugs". Wouldn't you?

[TonyDragonflame]

bads dont like losing to better players.

 

^ this is the main reason why these 4-man premade play on regulars, not ranked.

 

bads like them dont like losing to better players on ranked. They can feels good only on regulars, where is no competition.

 

Oh, certainly they can always sayin what they dont have enough players for ranked (but it means stop being bad, make more friends its mmo) or their mates is not optimal class setup for ranked... or they are ungeared yet... they are always find excuse.

[Boch]

Actually, a couple posts back I told story. A story about 2 RWZ guilds running multiple 4 man teams so they could get comms to "gear alts".

 

So in essence, they were running ranked teams against casual players to buy gear for alts which they were not playing on at the time. This is allowed by the system, but again I would argue that it is harmful to the community.

 

I would call that "farming pugs". Wouldn't you?

 

So let's take those 4 4 man RWZ teams. If they were in the premade only que they would face any other premade. Most likely rolling over most they faced. This could be another good premade or most likely less skilled premades. But if they where in a match making system they most likely face the other RWZ premades having a more balanced team. Which scenario seems most fair and which scenario will produce the best matches. Id say in both cases the match making.

[fleshtaker]

IT WILL NOT WORK!!!!!

seriously it wont work only thing that will work is a proper matchmaking system

 

Why you ask?

 

Because people (and yes me ill admit it) play normals to gear up (we cant gear up in ranked isn't viable)

We form 4 man groups because basically 50% of the pvp player base sucks horridly and we actually like to win in normal as well as ranked.

 

Ok now the reason it wont work

 

myself and every other premade making pvper who groups up for normal WZ's will just use our OP TS,vent,mumble ect to sync our solo ques so instead of getting 4mans into normal well end up with 6-8 every game facing a lot of pugs we will farm you harder than ever before for making our ques as a group disappear

(a lot of the time my guild will not 3cap or will hold 2 nodes until we cant lose then allow the other team to get some medals)

This will no longer happen every solo premade will be flat out trying to obliterate you

solo ques will not work there will be more premades in them than ever before

Edited July 6, 2013 by fleshtaker

[cashogy_reborn]

Actually, a couple posts back I told story. A story about 2 RWZ guilds running multiple 4 man teams so they could get comms to "gear alts".

 

So in essence, they were running ranked teams against casual players to buy gear for alts which they were not playing on at the time. This is allowed by the system, but again I would argue that it is harmful to the community.

 

I would call that "farming pugs". Wouldn't you?

 

like i said, there are groups that do this. but they are in the minority by a mile. in the 18 months that i have played this game, ive seen a super queue team no more than 5 times. its a rare occurrence at best.

 

this isnt the main argument in this thead tho, is it? people are for the most part complaining about legitimate 4-man premades.....

[Doomsdaycomes]

You could always leave out the snarky condescension. That would mean less typing. Again and again all I see you post is "prove it". Just because you want to drag down the conversation doesn't mean the rest of us don't have well defined ideas or solutions.

 

Where's the last post I said "Prove it?"

 

Between this post and that one, tell me how many of them have been about:

 

Pro's of Matchmaking

Con's of Matchmaking

Issues of Low Pop Servers

The merits of PuG's playing better

Con's of solo-only options

Agreement that there is an issue that should be solved

Suggestions of pre-match indicators (Match type, skill rating, warzone type, etc...)

 

...

 

Go on, take a look. Because frankly, your constant nagging me about "my behavior" is just spewed ********. I've done as much, (if not more) in discussing this problem and solutions as the rest of the lot here, only to over and over again have someone criticize a fraction of one of my posts and ignore the whole over all message of the rest of mine.

[Doomsdaycomes]

I am pretty stunned at the amount of people who say communication over vent or whatever is overrated. NOTHING causes pugs to lose more often than defenders not calling out for help. If you really think being able to communicate over voicechat rather than typing is not an advantage, you and I are not even talking about the same game.

 

To avoid you having more fuel for your *****-at-me-campaign, lemme address the rest of your post too.

 

Not that it's overrated, just that it's not as commonly used (not every 4-man has it) or as useful as some like to claim. Voice chat isn't going to be the deciding factor in a match unless almost ever other aspect of the game is near equal (gear, personal skill, etc...).

 

More importantly, Bioware can't design their game around Voip because it's something that is beyond their control. They can't know who has it, or uses it, or doesn't, etc... Just like they couldn't make a decision based on whether a certain type of player uses a 5,000+ button mouse vs. a touchpad. Or based on some people having better computer capabilities than others, etc... It's a program out of Bioware's control.

[Boch]

How is communication with only half your team an advantage. If players our only talking to half there team and not communicating with the other half there shooting themselves in the foot. An entire team of 8 players in vent is an advantage over a team that is not, but how often does that happen in regs.

[cashogy_reborn]

if a player fails at taking the 5 second required to type "inc 2 west" or w/e it is to signify they need help, do you really think they will be reliable on a voice-comm that requires just as little effort?

 

hint: they wont be. ive played with people like this, who dont pay attention and dont call things even when voice chat is available.

[foxmob]

like i said, there are groups that do this. but they are in the minority by a mile. in the 18 months that i have played this game, ive seen a super queue team no more than 5 times. its a rare occurrence at best.

 

this isnt the main argument in this thead tho, is it? people are for the most part complaining about legitimate 4-man premades.....

what server do you play on? I've seen it 3 times in one night. same guys doing it. but what am I supposed to do? not queue? then I'm not playing the game. they get their back fill fodder. they don't care. yeah. I agree, it's like 2-5% of the time. and I'm talking about verified superQs. not really bad matchmaking (which can and should be addressed: honestly, how do two 4m teams wind up on the same team against 8 pugs in a same faction match?).

 

Not that it's overrated, just that it's not as commonly used (not every 4-man has it) or as useful as some like to claim. Voice chat isn't going to be the deciding factor in a match unless almost ever other aspect of the game is near equal (gear, personal skill, etc...)..

this is true. I cringe when ppl cite voice comms as a deciding factor. it's only a deciding factor in an otherwise balanced WZ (balanced in terms of skill). I'm 100% confident in stating that close WZs are NOT what ppl complain about when they complain about premades vs. pugs.

[MotorCityMan]

myself and every other premade making pvper who groups up for normal WZ's will just use our OP TS,vent,mumble ect to sync our solo ques so instead of getting 4mans into normal well end up with 6-8 every game facing a lot of pugs we will farm you harder than ever before for making our ques as a group disappear

(a lot of the time my guild will not 3cap or will hold 2 nodes until we cant lose then allow the other team to get some medals)

This will no longer happen every solo premade will be flat out trying to obliterate you

solo ques will not work there will be more premades in them than ever before

 

Very sporting of ya to let them pugs get some medals.

[Arkerus]

To avoid you having more fuel for your *****-at-me-campaign, lemme address the rest of your post too.

 

Not that it's overrated, just that it's not as commonly used (not every 4-man has it) or as useful as some like to claim. Voice chat isn't going to be the deciding factor in a match unless almost ever other aspect of the game is near equal (gear, personal skill, etc...).

 

More importantly, Bioware can't design their game around Voip because it's something that is beyond their control. They can't know who has it, or uses it, or doesn't, etc... Just like they couldn't make a decision based on whether a certain type of player uses a 5,000+ button mouse vs. a touchpad. Or based on some people having better computer capabilities than others, etc... It's a program out of Bioware's control.

 

Its extremely commonly used by most 4 man teams who roll over the pug queues. I know, because I have been in many of them.

 

It completely unbalances the play. A team of 8 random players dont even have a snowballs chance in hell of coordinating as well as a team of players on vent, TS, etc.

 

Anyone who says this isn't an extreme advantage is either delusional or blatantly lying so they don't create a pug only queue.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Arkerus

[Doomsdaycomes]

Its extremely commonly used by most 4 man teams who roll over the pug queues. I know, because I have been in many of them.

 

It completely unbalances the play. A team of 8 random players dont even have a snowballs chance in hell of coordinating as well as a team of players on vent, TS, etc.

 

Anyone who says this isn't an extreme advantage is either delusional or blatantly lying so they don't create a pug only queue.

 

As to the part in bold: There is no PuG queue, just a regular one that allows 1-4 players to queue.

 

Never said it isn't an advantage, but it's not the end all be all of the match and... it's not as common as some like to claim. A full 8-man premade on team speak vs. a full PuG not on it... duh of course the 8 man premade is going to have a large advantage... assuming they're decently geared and skilled.

 

But this isn't the rule. More common is 4 -man premade with team speak +4 random people, which is as much an advantage as it can be a curse. Can't tell you how many times I've asked "No call?" on a node to hear "Oh, he called it on voice." That's all well and good... but half of us aren't on your voice!

 

And I don't need to blatantly lie to stop Bioware from implementing a terrible idea. They just need to look at the actual metrics and they'll find the best solution.

[foxmob]

They just need to look at the actual metrics and they'll find the best solution.

 

oye. please don't suggest metrics, not even in jest/sarcastically. I'm sure someone, somewhere, in a pivotal position at BW will take it seriously.

[Vaerah]

You could always leave out the snarky condescension. That would mean less typing. Again and again all I see you post is "prove it". Just because you want to drag down the conversation doesn't mean the rest of us don't have well defined ideas or solutions.

 

I am pretty stunned at the amount of people who say communication over vent or whatever is overrated. NOTHING causes pugs to lose more often than defenders not calling out for help. If you really think being able to communicate over voicechat rather than typing is not an advantage, you and I are not even talking about the same game.

 

Voice comm is an huge advantage indeed. I am infiltration spec, I can potentially die in 3 hits.

People still slam me to guard nodes, they like farming at the middle so much.

What happens is that 1 or 2 stealthers can attack me from stealth. I must react in a split second else I am really dead fast and hard but guess what? I have to spend that 1 second to type "g2" and that second costs me 8 to 14k damage (2 attackers of 2 different classes) of my health.

When I am on voice comm I can:

 

- call for incoming from far away but also inform an estimate of the treat: "I know that guy's tank spec / is bad, I can deal with him alone with no risk" or "I only see 1 but I know they are 2 guildies - 1 assasin - and so I expect a 2v1".

 

- call for help fast, without having to stop to type.

[Vaerah]

the bolded part is a massive contradiction btw. you like when the premades are on your team and carry you to victory against other PUG teams, but you dont like when there is a better 4-man premade on the other side that beats you even if you have a 4-man of your own to carry you? that right there is the root of this problem -> bads dont like losing to better players.

 

It's not a contradiction, it's a misreading on your side:

 

1) As I posted some pages ago, I don't like NEITHER to have a premade on my side NOR against. Because killing easy mode for me is boring, I love the "strange" fights (today I had a so particular Huttball I will post a video about it), the unconventional solutions, the abundant use of ingenuity and improvising. Tagging along with a FOTM premade makes these things unlikely at best.

 

2) My reference to me playing with some premades was only to describe that it's possible to see the different "grades" of premades depending on if they come from RWZ guilds and not.

I can't care the less to have a premade on my side, I actually prefer true "randoms vs randoms" as they are the situations where the most ludicrous, odd, noteworthy strange things happen.

 

I don't (just) play to win, but to be amused and have a good time.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Vaerah

[DarthSabreth]

It's not a contradiction, it's a misreading on your side:

 

1) As I posted some pages ago, I don't like NEITHER to have a premade on my side NOR against. Because killing easy mode for me is boring, I love the "strange" fights (today I had a so particular Huttball I will post a video about it), the unconventional solutions, the abundant use of ingenuity and improvising. Tagging along with a FOTM premade makes these things unlikely at best.

 

2) My reference to me playing with some premades was only to describe that it's possible to see the different "grades" of premades depending on if they come from RWZ guilds and not.

I can't care the less to have a premade on my side, I actually prefer true "randoms vs randoms" as they are the situations where the most ludicrous, odd, noteworthy strange things happen.

 

I don't (just) play to win, but to be amused and have a good time.

 

my thoughts exactly, I like randoms as well as ranked. what I like about the solo que is you get to meet new people and make new friends. there are a lot of strange things that happen in randoms. I too like to play not just for winning but for amusement.

 

Sadly most of the issues with the ques cant be solved until they put a cross server pvp que into place.

[Vasagi]

Never said it isn't an advantage, but it's not the end all be all of the match and... it's not as common as some like to claim. A full 8-man premade on team speak vs. a full PuG not on it... duh of course the 8 man premade is going to have a large advantage... assuming they're decently geared and skilled.

 

But this isn't the rule. More common is 4 -man premade with team speak +4 random people, which is as much an advantage as it can be a curse. Can't tell you how many times I've asked "No call?" on a node to hear "Oh, he called it on voice." That's all well and good... but half of us aren't on your voice!

 

I really don't even know what to say. If people really think voicechat isn't much of an advantage, try getting your team to agree to a node and then all attack it in civil next game you are losing there. Try getting a team with no tanks or heals to score in huttball. Try being a healer and asking for help when you have 2 dps on you. These things and many more are why voicechat give such a huge advantage, on top of the human factor that in vent if you don't play to win and act stupid, you are held accountable by your guild for being selfish or lazy.

 

Communication, class comp, skill, and gear are the factors that win matches. If you take out of any of those things, you have a much reduced chance of winning.

 

I have no idea where you get some of these strawmen you prop up. I don't remember seeing a single person ask to have vent or mumble banned from use in swtor. We are stating the reasons premades have a ridiculous advantage over pugs, and ways to make the game more fun for everyone and not just the premades.

[Doomsdaycomes]

I really don't even know what to say. If people really think voicechat isn't much of an advantage, try getting your team to agree to a node and then all attack it in civil next game you are losing there. Try getting a team with no tanks or heals to score in huttball. Try being a healer and asking for help when you have 2 dps on you. These things and many more are why voicechat give such a huge advantage, on top of the human factor that in vent if you don't play to win and act stupid, you are held accountable by your guild for being selfish or lazy.

 

Communication, class comp, skill, and gear are the factors that win matches. If you take out of any of those things, you have a much reduced chance of winning.

 

I have no idea where you get some of these strawmen you prop up. I don't remember seeing a single person ask to have vent or mumble banned from use in swtor. We are stating the reasons premades have a ridiculous advantage over pugs, and ways to make the game more fun for everyone and not just the premades.

 

Do you even know what a strawman is, or did you just hear about it in the last Presidential election and decide it sounded like a great word to toss around to make your posts look intellectual?

 

Everything in the post you just mentioned is solved by players being -smart.- A healer shouldn't need to ask for assistance, their guard/peels should take notice their healer's health is dropping or they're running around not healing because they are being chased. Coordinating which node to go after takes a few simple keystrokes and 4-5 people to pull their heads out of their *** and head the direction stated in the chat box. None of this requires voice-chat.

 

But that's not even the point! We know better organized, skilled, geared, coordinated, etc... players have advantages over the mish-mash of porrly organized, randomly geared, skilled, and poorly coordinated players. I don't even know why you bother bringing the conversation back around to this, unless you have some personal vendetta that someone on the "opposition" has to agree it's a "huge advantage" before you'll stop harping on how huge it is. For frak's sake, yes more competitive players have an advantage, and yes there needs to be a solution...

 

...And that goddamned solution is Matchmaking, for the dozen or so reasons that have been stated over and over and over and over and over!

 

You wanna accuse people of bogging down the conversation in semantics, then let it go! A small adavantage, medium advantage, huge advantage, what ever! It's an advantage some players have over others, there, happy? Or do I need to bow down and proclaim you are correct, it's a "Huge-No-Contest-Slayer-of-Souls Advantage" before we can stop bickering over terminology?

 

*Sighs*

 

Ps. I notice you declined to respond to my other post. Interesting.

[Vasagi]

Do you even know what a strawman is, or did you just hear about it in the last Presidential election and decide it sounded like a great word to toss around to make your posts look intellectual?

 

Everything in the post you just mentioned is solved by players being -smart.- A healer shouldn't need to ask for assistance, their guard/peels should take notice their healer's health is dropping or they're running around not healing because they are being chased. Coordinating which node to go after takes a few simple keystrokes and 4-5 people to pull their heads out of their *** and head the direction stated in the chat box. None of this requires voice-chat.

 

But that's not even the point! We know better organized, skilled, geared, coordinated, etc... players have advantages over the mish-mash of porrly organized, randomly geared, skilled, and poorly coordinated players. I don't even know why you bother bringing the conversation back around to this, unless you have some personal vendetta that someone on the "opposition" has to agree it's a "huge advantage" before you'll stop harping on how huge it is. For frak's sake, yes more competitive players have an advantage, and yes there needs to be a solution...

 

...And that gosh darned solution is Matchmaking, for the dozen or so reasons that have been stated over and over and over and over and over!

 

You wanna accuse people of bogging down the conversation in semantics, then let it go! A small adavantage, medium advantage, huge advantage, what ever! It's an advantage some players have over others, there, happy? Or do I need to bow down and proclaim you are correct, it's a "Huge-No-Contest-Slayer-of-Souls Advantage" before we can stop bickering over terminology?

 

*Sighs*

 

Ps. I notice you declined to respond to my other post. Interesting.

 

I don't usually bother responding to high school drama and name calling. That's all I read in your post I didn't respond to.

 

Straw Man Argument (definitions of a fallacy)

In a strawman argument, "the author attacks an argument different from (and weaker than) the opposition's best argument."

If claiming that people are asking for voicechat bans and then attacking that position isn't a strawman, then strawman arguments do not exist.

 

And your response to having a communications advantage is "you shouldn't have to communicate" makes absolutely zero sense. If you didn't need to communicate, the best pvpers would not use voicechat...everyone would just "know what to do".

 

EDIT: Okay, you got me, more semantics, and I even responded this time. Point to you. I admit you have talent in derailing any sort of idea you don't like. By endlessly asking for definitions, clarifications, demanding proof for opinions, and trying to belittle anyone who doesn't agree with you, you excel at halting useful dialogue. I bow to your skills. I just don't see any point in responding to it anymore, it doesn't move the conversation at all.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Vasagi

[DarthRaika]

Stop talking about voice chat it is just a small part.

 

The issue with premades is CHOICE.

 

They are able to choose 50% (or more with super q) of their team's Gear, composition, player skill, datacrons, voice comm., experience with each other, strategies, and non-tardness factor.

 

This is huge and this is a major advantage. This is very obvious and if you don't realize that it is a major advantage then you are just fooling yourself and you should think about why you would do that.

 

Sure there are a lot of teams that choose to be horrible in the above categories but pugs can only choose 1/8th of the above.

 

In some games only the best of the best premades can decide a match. In games where premades make up 25-33% of a match then even the decent ones can still lose rather often (although very good ones should still win almost every match).

 

In SWTOR though if you have all of the advantages above except that you are only moderately skilled then it will still be enough to win most matches against complete pugs. This is why premade matching is needed.

 

Now basic premade matching is pretty simple as well and does not have to be implemented for low pop servers.

 

You just try to match premades (at least 1 on each side) and you have a max time before they are treated the same as they are now. This max time is often only 5-10 mins and for populated servers this is plenty of time to make more even matches.

 

Sure skill and/or win/loss based matchmaking is great and something we can ask for in the future but a simple version would be great at least in the meantime.

 

I am getting sick of sure wins and sure losses. I would much prefer a close loss than a sure win. With the current system out of 10 matches where I need my weekly completed I may drop 4-5- sure losses win 4-5 sure wins and win or lose 1-2 semi close matches. It is maybe 1 of 20 for extremely close matches. This is getting painful and while I love star wars if it stays this way much longer I'll take my 70-100 bucks a month elsewhere. WE NEED MORE EVEN MATCHES!!!!

[MotorCityMan]

It's not a contradiction, it's a misreading on your side:

 

1) As I posted some pages ago, I don't like NEITHER to have a premade on my side NOR against. Because killing easy mode for me is boring, I love the "strange" fights (today I had a so particular Huttball I will post a video about it), the unconventional solutions, the abundant use of ingenuity and improvising. Tagging along with a FOTM premade makes these things unlikely at best.

 

2) My reference to me playing with some premades was only to describe that it's possible to see the different "grades" of premades depending on if they come from RWZ guilds and not.

I can't care the less to have a premade on my side, I actually prefer true "randoms vs randoms" as they are the situations where the most ludicrous, odd, noteworthy strange things happen.

 

I don't (just) play to win, but to be amused and have a good time.

 

You eloquently put into words why randoms are fun.

Edited July 8, 2013 by MotorCityMan