Tayl-Wynn Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 We'll see what the Devs do, if anything, about it soon hopefully. If they DO elect to change it at all (which is no certainty) I would expect a solution involving the fewest, lest complicated changes to the platform. They get kinda jittery when you start talking big changes heh heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomsdaycomes Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 See? We agree a little bit Most players here actually agree a lot that there is a problem. We just spend more time bickering the cause of the problem then the actual solutions. Unfortunately, no matter the solution, low-pop will always be less effective. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by pidgeon-hole'ing subsets, but also remember matchmaking on skill and/or /win/loss ratio is adaptive meaning a team/player with a high rating losing will drop lower and lower into different (brackets) until they start winning once more, continuing to bounce around. Likewise those winning most of their matches will rise in the brackets until they start losing once more. The only point of "stagnation" is those who only win or only lose. Even at that point, the always wins continue to face new opponents as their old opponents lose rating down and the top of the lower rating (bracket) wins its way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boch Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 So I've been doing a lot of lowbie PvP, half my ranked team is on vacation and 55 PvP has gone to crap since transfers. Lowbie is almost 100% pug vs pug. Almost every match is 1 sided, it comes down to which team has the least amount of derp. Solo que at 55 won't be any different. Good players don't need to have voice chat to know what's happening and where to go. Solo que will still be 1 sided by who has the most skill. A match making system will put equally skilled player against each other, making for better matches. Being a group of 4 with voice chat doesn't make you a better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayl-Wynn Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Yes, Pugs/Pugs & Groups/Groups would be the simplest, if not the most elegant way to go, and likely the way Devs would go under pressure. You'd hope though, that a group of sharp programmers could figure out a way to apply some seamless, well-balanced matchmaking. They could even go "outside-the-box" and create a large, open-ended WZ (don't know why they stopped the whole Ilum thing anyway), or something even more creative and yet unimagined. One thing's for sure, when this many people are unhappy there is, de-facto, a problem. Wonder if the Devs are putting as much thought into this as we are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayl-Wynn Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 And yes, voice chat is a SIGNIFIGANT advantage for groups in PvP, for the same reason it is in PvE. Positioning your forces and reacting to threats as a team by tacking out "chats" is MUCH slower than simply shouting them out - it's the reason we have voice to begin with. While it's true that voice doesn't make a player "better" in solo combat, it gives his team a reaction-time advantage the other doesn't enjoy. Would you say that isn't true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncelSam Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 dont see problems, see the good benefit of getting more balanced and FUN pvp. premades vs premades PUG vs PUG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comfterbilly Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 So I've been doing a lot of lowbie PvP, half my ranked team is on vacation and 55 PvP has gone to crap since transfers. Lowbie is almost 100% pug vs pug. Almost every match is 1 sided, it comes down to which team has the least amount of derp. Solo que at 55 won't be any different. Good players don't need to have voice chat to know what's happening and where to go. Solo que will still be 1 sided by who has the most skill. A match making system will put equally skilled player against each other, making for better matches. Being a group of 4 with voice chat doesn't make you a better player. I been levelling toons also and have encountered the opposite - whole groups superqueuing and levelling their entire team on Voip holy trinity pain in the ***. Maybe its the time of day you're playing, I see more of it after 5pm, maybe its a coincidence but if the attraction of XXP Weekend is supposed to be encouraging new players, 3 days of whole-team lowbie facerolling cannot be what the money people had in mind. Like I have said im pretty convinced the PVP devs have given up on the game and dont want anything but to get paid to play their own game, the more facerolling of subscribers not smart enough to realize that this game is kaput, the better in their minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boch Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Its not the premades that are the problem, its whats in the premade that's the problem. Premades that are made up of bad players don't win matches. Its getting multiple skilled players working together that win matches, and those players don't have to be in premades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comfterbilly Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Its not the premades that are the problem, its whats in the premade that's the problem. Premades that are made up of bad players don't win matches. Its getting multiple skilled players working together that win matches, and those players don't have to be in premades. It's also the people on the other team: the random other people. If the "really good players" are matched up against another group, what's the problem? That's fine. But if there are groups out there and BW is sticking them against solos instead, that's a big problem, which is what we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayl-Wynn Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 So, Boch, can we assume you enjoy playing in pre-made's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boch Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) So, Boch, can we assume you enjoy playing in pre-made's? I enjoy challenging pvp matches. And the state of reg PvP rarely supplies that in a premade or solo queing. And splitting up solo que and premade won't supply those matches like a match making system will. Edited July 4, 2013 by Boch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerah Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 OK, ToFN now is officially a blasted server. Endless flow of (double) premade after (double) premade, in full augmented conqueror less 1 relic (which is still Partisan) I get perma-hit for 7.5k ALL THE TIME. It's endless marauders and more marauders and more marauders, PvP turned completely into ***** as I can't even leave the spawn that I get insta killed the very millisecond I unstealth. Now I'll have to waste my money to move off this sinking ship of a server, as now PvPing in here is as fun as getting an handful of hot sand in the vag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayl-Wynn Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Another satisfied customer! She must be wrong too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomsdaycomes Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Another satisfied customer! She must be wrong too. Um... Who exactly is saying any one isn't/shouldn't be unhappy about the current PvP landscape? As far as I can tell everyone in this thread agrees there's a problem, just few agree on what the problem is or how to fix it. So your comments... kinda make no sense half the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRaika Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 You don't need skilled players to make a pugstomping premade. The skill softcaps in this game are extremely low. You need decent ppl with good gear and a decent composition to stomp most pugs. If you needed skilled players then this would not be an issue whatsoever since most skilled pvprs left swtor long ago due to most matches being so one sided. Now sure this premade will lose if they face a premade with good players in very good gear (and actually got their datacrons) and a very good composition but that is why there should be at least some form of matchmaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boch Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Um... Who exactly is saying any one isn't/shouldn't be unhappy about the current PvP landscape? As far as I can tell everyone in this thread agrees there's a problem, just few agree on what the problem is or how to fix it. So your comments... kinda make no sense half the time. ^This Was going to post basically the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comfterbilly Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) "Duh... any good pug group can blah blah blah any premade, duh..." Yeah 8 random people are so good that they can counteract the meticulously laid plan of 8 specific people. Nevermind that the premade devised the strategy hours or days in advance (because they always try new things), just "duh.." yeah 8 random people who never played together and have to type to each other instead of voip, will be able to unravel the premade's entire ranked-level scheme, "duh..." because that's all there is to it, "skill", "duh..." "And if you believe that, duh... we keep getting free lunch." Your company is unwanted by us. We don't care that our company is wanted by you. Edited July 5, 2013 by Comfterbilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMan Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) What a random solo queue offers is no pre-selection (no premades). It doesn't guarantee an even match. But mathematically, it does guarantee that you won't always end up on one side of a mismatch or the other and you get the occasional even match. Premades facing premades more often gives them more competition. Since they are limited to 2-4 players, and are matched randomly with other premades and solos, theoretically they should have a similar experience. Not sure I see the downside to providing a solo only queue option. Not to say some sort of match making system wouldn't be better, but I suggest that is a more difficult solution to design and implement, and therefor less likely. To wander off topic, More creative warzone design might go a long way toward providing more suspenseful and fun matches. Different size warzones with more and varied types of objectives with more and varied ways of achieving those objectives. Edited July 5, 2013 by MotorCityMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MahneWarrior Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 dont see problems, see the good benefit of getting more balanced and FUN pvp. premades vs premades PUG vs PUG Not all premades are the same, some so called "premade" groups are comprised of friends who may or may not suck at the game. A simple group vs group system would be unfair to the vast majority of premade groups that are just friends having a good time. They should just add an MMR system, but that would effect queue times for the people on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMan Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) Not all premades are the same, some so called "premade" groups are comprised of friends who may or may not suck at the game. A simple group vs group system would be unfair to the vast majority of premade groups that are just friends having a good time. They should just add an MMR system, but that would effect queue times for the people on top. Since the group queue is random, the group of friends has just a good of a chance to have a competitive premade on their team as they are to face one. So should be fair to them as well. At least as fair as the system can be to anyone. With apologies to those who have been following this thread awhile, I will again post that WoW, after 7 years, finally took action on the issue of premades. They eliminated the usability of addons that were being used for 'super premades', teams of up to 40. And they now have a new queuing system that preferentially places groups vs groups, filling in with solo players. The remaining solo players are put into a separate battleground. It is still a single queue, there is no solo only queue option. Edited July 5, 2013 by MotorCityMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boch Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Since the group queue is random, the group of friends has just a good of a chance to have a competitive premade on their team as they are to face one. So should be fair to them as well. At least as fair as the system can be to anyone. With apologies to those who have been following this thread awhile, I will again post that WoW, after 7 years, finally took action on the issue of premades. They eliminated the usability of addons that were being used for 'super premades', teams of up to 40. And they now have a new queuing system that preferentially places groups vs groups, filling in with solo players. The remaining solo players are put into a separate battleground. It is still a single queue, there is no solo only queue option. They also have cross server ques with a huge player base to pull from, that is something this game doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMan Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 They also have cross server ques with a huge player base to pull from, that is something this game doesn't. Very true. I don't know if it would translate effectively to SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skotish Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 This game is doomed 8 matches last night on the tofn rep side not one pre made in my side all single players other side pre made I think their backfill fix has really broken the game right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleshtaker Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 yes pls stop premades joining non ranked WZ's as I have lots of alts to gear it would be nice to sync ques in TS,vent ect with 10 or so guildies so we all end up in the same WZ facing 8 randoms every time that way I can gear up my alts faster BW make it happen pls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comfterbilly Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Very true. I don't know if it would translate effectively to SWTOR. Well, we don't need 40-man groups either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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