Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Sharee]

Way to fail at basic understanding. What he says is that "soloers" do not care to win or lose as long as it is "a game". A game = two teams fight and in the end one wins. Wins, not SAVAGELY FARM the other.

 

Losing 5-3 to Huttball with time running out is MUCH different than losing 6-0 in 2 minutes, each group memeber getting perma-smashed for 10k, perma RDPS for 5k and so on vs a "pure blood" super min maxed perfect team.

 

That's it, basically.

 

What the solos complain about is not losing, what they complain about is that the match is not set up in a fair manner.

 

A match where one side chose half it's team composition in advance(hand-picking the correct classes and possibly competent players), and the other did not (instead being completely at the mercy of luck to get the correct classes and competent players), is simply not fair.

 

As long as there is a 'join solo' button, players using it have the right to expect the match to be fair, at least in the sense described above(that the starting conditions for both teams are equal).

[PloGreen]

You are all constantly trying to insert false arguments into a real complaint. Soloer's aren't fed up about passing lanes they're fed up about coordinated ops vs nobody-knows-what-the-other-one-is doing. Then your brain resets and you say "well if players were better at the game they would all know what to do," except the real problem is you're so stupid you can't remember that the benefits of grouping have been established time and time again and y'all think its clever to act like they haven't. Yeah there are no benefits to being in a premade that's why you always want to be in a premade with no benefits and no the benefit is not just "not being bad". ANYBODY could do what premades do. Personally I find the people in them to be bad company. Pardon me for not wanting to be in a group with a bunch of lowlifes who spend all day in an exploit queue pugrolling for easy progress. Pardon me for calling people who do so, not ideal people to spend time with intentionally, on either side of their premade. Solo queue or bust.

 

You have basically just said anyone who play's in a group (in a mode that has been in the game since the start) is a low-life exploiter, who is bad company and you don't want to group with any premade because they are all like this.

 

My opinion from your responses is you are delusional sort, you think the game is built to serve people like you but seem to forget this is an mmo where grouping is actively encouraged but not discouraged because you have a prejudiced view of others and the reasons they do what they do.

 

Instead of understanding that the tools and mechanics of the game are freely available to all, not exclusive in any way shape or form - you continue to solo queue and lambast people that play in groups, completely forgetting that they also solo queue, or make assumptions about them as people to fit your (warped) view of a computer game. You wont even try to form small group of people you do like, probably because you do not like 3 people, judging by your comments.

 

There is nothing wrong with playing in a 4 man group in regular warzones. Been like this since the start of the game, no need to change it because of people with attitudes like yours - you don't want to help yourself, you are welcome to continue to struggle and complain at other's that play the game as it was intended.

 

More than enough concessions have been made for casuals and solo players with bolster etc. Learning to group is part of pvp, you should not be punished if you want to do it - unranked does not belong to solo players.

 

Better match-making is the solution, you get my support on that.

[Cretinus]

You have basically just said anyone who play's in a group (in a mode that has been in the game since the start) is a low-life exploiter, who is bad company and you don't want to group with any premade because they are all like this.

 

My opinion from your responses is you are delusional sort, you think the game is built to serve people like you but seem to forget this is an mmo where grouping is actively encouraged but not discouraged because you have a prejudiced view of others and the reasons they do what they do.

 

Instead of understanding that the tools and mechanics of the game are freely available to all, not exclusive in any way shape or form - you continue to solo queue and lambast people that play in groups, completely forgetting that they also solo queue, or make assumptions about them as people to fit your (warped) view of a computer game. You wont even try to form small group of people you do like, probably because you do not like 3 people, judging by your comments.

 

There is nothing wrong with playing in a 4 man group in regular warzones. Been like this since the start of the game, no need to change it because of people with attitudes like yours - you don't want to help yourself, you are welcome to continue to struggle and complain at other's that play the game as it was intended.

 

More than enough concessions have been made for casuals and solo players with bolster etc. Learning to group is part of pvp, you should not be punished if you want to do it - unranked does not belong to solo players.

 

Better match-making is the solution, you get my support on that.

 

Actually, I wouldn't mind the premades so much if the ability to respec during WZs was removed.

A premade team will always be able to be the first to cap 2 nodes, but to let them respecc to 4 tanks + 4 heals after capping will make any attempt to recap futile for the pugs team.

[Atramar]

Actually, I wouldn't mind the premades so much if the ability to respec during WZs was removed.

A premade team will always be able to be the first to cap 2 nodes, but to let them respecc to 4 tanks + 4 heals after capping will make any attempt to recap futile for the pugs team.

 

respec allow pugs with to much healers to have some dps, or with no heals to respec to healers. if you take that away, premades will be more in advantage (unless you account stupid premades that bring 4 dps in WZ and complain for no heals or tanks)

[AodhAngus]

With a solo queue warzone option, solo class quests, solo quests to pve your heart out, it is crystal clear that playing solo in SWTOR is also "playing as intended." We all pay to play, your money is no more important to EAWARE than my money.

 

Just because it is an MMO people have this misconception that it is intended to be played in groups, whereas it only means that you will be in a community with many other gamers, playing the same game. Neither solo nor groups of guildies/friends should be "forced" into playing a certain way, aka forced to group or forced to solo.

 

One person had a great idea of adding a solo option to refuse warzones with pre-mades in them. Not a bad idea as they would have the option to refuse games with pre-mades, and hence no need to make threads of this sort.

 

Of course this is just my opinion.

 

Personally, I like fighting pre-mades and always have fun either way.

[Atramar]

With a solo queue warzone option, solo class quests, solo quests to pve your heart out, it is crystal clear that playing solo in SWTOR is also "playing as intended." We all pay to play, your money is no more important to EAWARE than my money.

 

Just because it is an MMO people have this misconception that it is intended to be played in groups, whereas it only means that you will be in a community with many other gamers, playing the same game. Neither solo nor groups of guildies/friends should be "forced" into playing a certain way, aka forced to group or forced to solo.

 

One person had a great idea of adding a solo option to refuse warzones with pre-mades in them. Not a bad idea as they would have the option to refuse games with pre-mades, and hence no need to make threads of this sort.

 

Of course this is just my opinion.

 

Personally, I like fighting pre-mades and always have fun either way.

 

We also want solo ops, solo NiM TFB, Solo hm Fps 55, solo WZ (so no enemies, so I can take that ball and score with no one disturbing me).. I mean, why we are forced to have 7 other people in our team in WZ. We don't need it, we can have fun solo.

Ban premades in GF, it makes flashpoints to easy. I mean tank is doing his job, healer is healing, DD follow kill order. this is not how game was intended. it was intended solo!.

 

separate ques are bad idea, even if more people will pvp, it means 'solo only' que will be filled with bads. we already have 10-54 brackets for 'bad pvp'. on 55 atleast most of people try to win...

 

do win/lose ratio, it'll work better.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Atramar

[Cretinus]

respec allow pugs with to much healers to have some dps, or with no heals to respec to healers. if you take that away, premades will be more in advantage (unless you account stupid premades that bring 4 dps in WZ and complain for no heals or tanks)

 

Correct, but only in theory. Cause most casuals don't have a second specc planned. They wouldn't be able to quickly respecc e.g. to heal with all talents and key bindings in an efficient manner. Without pointing any fingers here, I believe that most efficient WZ respeccers are power players who very often even use macros or scripts. Apart from not being allowed, these don't belong to a casual's portfolio of skills.

 

Of course, you could now say that it's the casual's own fault if they don't plan a respecc beforehand. But then you could also say that it's the casual's own fault if they don't stop being casuals and run a premade team on their own. This argument doesn't lead us anywhere, casue casuals have the right to remain casuals, if they want to.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Cretinus

[Atramar]

Correct, but only in theory. Cause most casuals don't have a second specc planned. They wouldn't be able to quickly respecc e.g. to heal with all talents and key bindings in an efficient manner. Without pointing any fingers here, I believe that most efficient respeccers are power players who often use macros or scripts. Apart from not being allowed, these are something that doesn't belong to a casual's portfolio of skills.

 

Of course, you could now say that it's the casual's own fault if they don't plan a respecc beforehand. But then you could also say that it's the casual's own fault if they don't stop being casuals and run a premade team on their own. This argument doesn't lead us anywhere, casue casuals have the right to remain casuals, if they want to.

 

that's why win/lose ratio is better. It will separate casuals who want to go in and pew pew basic attack, ignore objectives, doesn't care for winning, 'having fun, being casual in pvp lol omg yolo' from those of us who actualy feel they like to compete. don't take tools from us. or distribute them evenly between teams.

 

I'm casual player (belive it or not due to my signature - I just play efficently), have 2 jobs, fiancee, no kids yet tho. pug pvp for life!

if there is only one thing I hate about premades, it's when they are on oposite team and my team says 'lol it's a premade, let's camp a node' and 4 of them does... that just makes me

Edited July 9, 2013 by Atramar

[mulzii]

many people are arguing that 'bads lose games'. Well, thats true. I play both in premades and solo (more solo lately). All i want when i hit the solo queue button is a fair fight. If JoeDude kicks my behind all over the map, i need to get better. i can accept that. But when 4+ people coordinate to focus me the entire match, every match, and its mostly because of their out-of-game communication, then its not an issue of 'l2p better'. Yes, i know, a marked person can get focused, alot. But you, as a pugger, can at least use skill to avoid/get out of that when facing other puggers, as the enemy wont be able to time their ccs, interupts, etc to take you out as effectively.

 

Now a premade in vent/mumble/whatever, can communicate real-time. They can call out their interupts and cc's so they are not wasted. They can mark the 2+ healers in a match and coordinate/prioritize to burn one down instantly first, before moving to the second. Puggers dont have that luxury, you have to hope enough folks will focus the same one before moving to the other. Puggers also dont have time to react to save their healers when focused like this. When my premade decides to focus a specific healer, they dont have time to ask their team to peel/guard/help. tanks/dps dont have the real-time communication to know which healer is being focused fast enough to save them. And my premade would probably be designated as 'baddies' by most of the forum warriors on here.

[cycao]

Nobody is complaining "Oh that player is really 'good'" - they're complaining the regs queue is under full exploit attack from cowardly premades too scared to play other groups. Don't give yourself credit for group mechanics. Is it your "skill" that gives you 1-2 pocket heals when the other team may not even have one?

 

Yeah for some reason all these premades have on pugs is min/maxed gear, voice coms and 'perfect group comp'. They are all scared terrible players whos only goal is to ruin your day. And pocket heals only applies to you and your buddy entering a warzone and him only healing you. I don't think the rest of my team hates it when my sorc buddy keeps them alive.

 

All things being equal, these queue types are not equal and don't belong together. Say it a million times, if splitting the queues hurts premade queue time, its because the cowardly pack-dog teams who only want to bottom feed, refuse to play the teams who are better than them, which is why they're not in ranked to begin with.

 

Not our < fault, not our < problem.

 

There are at least 10 guilds that queue on a nightly bases on my server. Now I have no clue which one you play on but the ranked scene does not pick up until a bit later in the night but runs late. These teams that partake in ranked don't just sit around and solo queue. They joined a guild to group with players and they do that in both ranked and reg.

 

Anyways you seem like that type of guy who is dead set on this idea and will not budge or comprimise or listen to any rational arguments which brings up good points on the issues on both sides. If they are to put in a 4th queue I don't see threads like these ever stopping.

[cycao]

Correct, but only in theory. Cause most casuals don't have a second specc planned. They wouldn't be able to quickly respecc e.g. to heal with all talents and key bindings in an efficient manner. Without pointing any fingers here, I believe that most efficient WZ respeccers are power players who very often even use macros or scripts. Apart from not being allowed, these don't belong to a casual's portfolio of skills.

 

Of course, you could now say that it's the casual's own fault if they don't plan a respecc beforehand. But then you could also say that it's the casual's own fault if they don't stop being casuals and run a premade team on their own. This argument doesn't lead us anywhere, casue casuals have the right to remain casuals, if they want to.

 

Yeah with my UI set up I can resepec from dps to tank in less than 30 seconds. Though I don't think that respecing should be completely disabled in warzones. It does allow teams heavy on dps/tanks/healing to respec to another roll even though most don't it's still a nice thing to have. It should however be disabled after the timer stops at the beggining of a warzone.

[AodhAngus]

We also want solo ops, solo NiM TFB, Solo hm Fps 55, solo WZ (so no enemies, so I can take that ball and score with no one disturbing me).. I mean, why we are forced to have 7 other people in our team in WZ. We don't need it, we can have fun solo.

Ban premades in GF, it makes flashpoints to easy. I mean tank is doing his job, healer is healing, DD follow kill order. this is not how game was intended. it was intended solo!.

 

separate ques are bad idea, even if more people will pvp, it means 'solo only' que will be filled with bads. we already have 10-54 brackets for 'bad pvp'. on 55 atleast most of people try to win...

 

do win/lose ratio, it'll work better.

 

Who cares really, let the bads play the bads then. I'm sick of throwing myself at objectives to stop a cap when no one else gives a fck. Groups playing groups would at least have players that want to win, and you could also join games with groups while being solo, right? Having a queue where only solo players play solo players is not what that was about.

[MitchPB]

I joined A guild a few days ago, and did some premading. Boy was it way funner then my year and a half of solo queuing. I mean I knew right away that I had 3 teammates I could count on to do simple things like walk and chew gum at same time. I guess the saying is true, premades really do make regular warzones more fun.

The Bastion

Rellik - Jenna'syyde - Crackroxx

 

This right here. Alot of us don't premade to faceroll we premade to have fun. And of course losing is not fun in any way

[LadyKohastFel]

Unranked warzones are supposed to be a training ground where players can learn the skills that they need to succeed in ranked warzones and if they can't even scratch their opposition and are taken down effortlessly what can they possibly learn? And most people play games for fun and consistently losing against an unbeatable opponent is not fun so in the end there will be longer queues for ranked warzones because most people when faced with an unbeatable foe will find something that is more fun to do like PvE or another MMO and never progress into ranked warzones.

[Jadescythe]

Way to fail at basic understanding. What he says is that "soloers" do not care to win or lose as long as it is "a game". A game = two teams fight and in the end one wins. Wins, not SAVAGELY FARM the other.

 

Losing 5-3 to Huttball with time running out is MUCH different than losing 6-0 in 2 minutes, each group memeber getting perma-smashed for 10k, perma RDPS for 5k and so on vs a "pure blood" super min maxed perfect team.

 

I'd like to be nice on here all the time, but honestly, if you lose 6-0 in 2 minutes, the problem isn't the premade, you and/or your team are just bad. It's easy to get on a roll when you score a goal because, for the most part, every player on the team is in the pit/endzone for no reason trying to kill the full resolve PT/VG who can't be rooted or slowed and has full health with a healer on him. Cut your losses and take mid back instead of leaving the 1 player smart enough to do it alone there dying to 3 opponents before the ball even resets.

 

You can say it was the premade that was the issue, but it wasn't. Even when I type in Ops chat to get mid and let them score, people can't help themselves from bashing their head against the wall. Group up in X area to take the node together is another nice idea to ignore apparently. People are just completely derpy and there is no cure for that. Apparently if you don't play the objectives correctly it's ok, just blame the people who do.

 

The issue YOU fail to realize it that the skill disparity is ridiculous in this game. I've had full 8v8 PUG games where I'm at 700k damage and the next highest anything is 200k. We'll say my winning percentage in full PUGs is probably around 95% and I'm not even that good. The real problem is and will always be that some players are better than others. And if you put in a solo queue, I'll still be in it along with every other player better than me at times and you'll still have completely one sided matches.

 

Oh and all the premades that you are really complaining about that are specifically out to stomp people for comms and camp spawnpoints will still be queue syncing and have 5-6 of their buddies in your warzones making you cry again anyway.

[Jadescythe]

Yeah with my UI set up I can resepec from dps to tank in less than 30 seconds. Though I don't think that respecing should be completely disabled in warzones. It does allow teams heavy on dps/tanks/healing to respec to another roll even though most don't it's still a nice thing to have. It should however be disabled after the timer stops at the beggining of a warzone.

 

Off topic, but agreed. I think it will be better for both regs and ranked to respec at the start of the match and not again. Although, you could argue that ranked doesn't need it at all since you know your 8 going in. Might stop some of the stalemates anyway.

[cycao]

Off topic, but agreed. I think it will be better for both regs and ranked to respec at the start of the match and not again. Although, you could argue that ranked doesn't need it at all since you know your 8 going in. Might stop some of the stalemates anyway.

 

Agreed, stalemates suck and I hate them more than this thread.

[L-RANDLE]

Unranked warzones are supposed to be a training ground where players can learn the skills that they need to succeed in ranked warzones and if they can't even scratch their opposition and are taken down effortlessly what can they possibly learn? And most people play games for fun and consistently losing against an unbeatable opponent is not fun so in the end there will be longer queues for ranked warzones because most people when faced with an unbeatable foe will find something that is more fun to do like PvE or another MMO and never progress into ranked warzones.

 

Nope. This is why lowbie exists. If you didn't do any PVP before 55 then its on you. I understand that it should not be a prerequisite, but I already suggested that the Devs add a "legacy valor", which is directly linked to which Que you are in. If you don't meet a certain level, then you are shipped to lowbie...

 

Besides that, if you are trying the learn the basics, you really need to be in lowbie anyway. Endgame PVP is for advanced strats and doing whatever it takes to win the game, regardless if you group or solo Que...

[Raazmir]

Premades are sure taking their sweet time killing off pvp, they've been at it for like a year and a half and people still queue up.

[cycao]

Premades are sure taking their sweet time killing off pvp, they've been at it for like a year and a half and people still queue up.

 

Here is another thing I don't get. I have not had to wait more than 10 minutes for a pop before and if it does it was that old bug that you had to relog to get a pop. If PvP is dying its not on my PvP server.

[foxmob]

Nope. This is why lowbie exists. If you didn't do any PVP before 55 then its on you. I understand that it should not be a prerequisite, but I already suggested that the Devs add a "legacy valor", which is directly linked to which Que you are in. If you don't meet a certain level, then you are shipped to lowbie...

 

Besides that, if you are trying the learn the basics, you really need to be in lowbie anyway. Endgame PVP is for advanced strats and doing whatever it takes to win the game, regardless if you group or solo Que...

 

I'm pro- separate queues, but not fanatical about it. that said, I completely agree with L-Randle here. reg WZ does not exist for "training" purposes. that's what lowbie is for. that's why valor restrictions used to mean something. reg WZs are basic. what you might call casual or story mode. maybe hard mode in an ops that has a nightmare mode. my point is that the very best players in the game can, do, and should queue for reg WZs. it's a hodgepodge. there's nothing wrong with that. ppl jumping into 55s WZs and not even knowing how to pass a hb yet is insulting and infuriating. reg doesn't mean tutorial. it doesn't exist for superQs to "practice" their rated strats either (goes both ways). it's grps of 4 or less.

[Thelar]

Warzones are fine. Premades or non premades. You deal with it. I find some people are jealous of premades. Moving on, Warzones pop all the time. I have no problem. However, ranked warzones are harder to come by.. I really wish they just ranked people up similar to galaxies. Furthermore, added more to valor. There is so much new and added features to pve. However, pvp we see just the same old warzones. And, armor that looks the same. I really would like a valor reward vendor and open pvp objectives. That would mix things up a bit so people would not get tired of warzones. In addition, give people long term goals to pvp:)

[Winterwolfen]

You put in a ticket and they tell you to post here.

 

PVP forums don't seem to have a DEV response for pages. Give us some feedback on topics BIo. Please. I am not saying we are being ignored but feeling like we are is frustrating. Please just give us some feedback. This post is getting close to 4500 replies seems an important issue to many no matter what side your on.

 

Thanks.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Winterwolfen

[cycao]

You put in a ticket and they tell you to post here.

 

PVP forums don't seem to have a DEV response for pages. Give us some feedback on topics BIo. Please. I am not saying we are being ignored but feeling like we are is frustrating. Please just give us some feedback. This post is getting close to 4500 replies seems an important issue to many no matter what side your on.

 

Thanks.

 

They have made mention a few months back about getting a matchmaking system in place and that there will be solo ranked coming with 2.4.

 

Also no need to post if something is working as intended.

[cub-lover]

ugh this argument is getting stupid **** about pre-mades people want to play with their friends and guildies an mmo means a SOCIAL game im sorry but hte babies that dont have a guild or any friends to play with can jsut **** and just play as it is only a game that people want to enjoy WITH OTHER PEOPLE!