Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[AlrikFassbauer]

The Empire Strikes Back

 

Now that the Rebel Alliance of Solo Players has been trying to fight their Fight for Freedom,

the Empire now reacts by trying to convert all Solo Players into Premades. Or into Premade Players. Like Borg.

 

It's really astonishing to witness that the wish of solo players to remain solo players in random war zones

is actually answered by the try to define random war zones as a premade-only thing.

 

And that actually takes place within a thread/discussion which was started by Solo Players in the beginning, not by Premade Players !

 

This is like ... as a German saying goes : "You are turning my words around in my mouth !"

 

Impressive, really.

[cashogy_reborn]

skill based matchmaking

a "solo-only" toggle at a reduced reward rate (stay in regularl queue but decline to fight premades)

improved RWZ system

in-game VOIP

group finder for PvP

a short preview window of the WZ you are about to load into

remove respec inside WZ, and use a matchmaker that tries to balance class roles (2 tanks, 2 heals, 4 dps)

 

 

^ all suggestions that would help to improve the quality of Regs. quit all the QQ and put on your thinking cap. i could post a novel about how frustrated bad PUGs make me during Regs, but my time/effort is better spent offering ideas on the forums to help the devs improve our game; not just b*tch and moan about stuff completely out of my control.

[Doomsdaycomes]

I think a better vote to kick option would also go a long way (in light of someone mentioning solo-only players there for dailies, etc...)

 

Just had probably one of the most annoying matches to date, and I'm not even sure it was vs. a Premade. Some guy shouts out beginning of the match 2/0/6 (civil war). Not only is this a terrible strategy, but once no one follows it (and so it ends up me going toward snow, and a very disorganized 3/4 or something) he begins to berate people in chat. Not even 20 seconds into the match, he's already declared he's given up, not gonna try, and sits on the node farming medals.

 

I'm unable to leave the node because he won't even call incomings, and attempts to kick him fail as anytime it's mentioned not enough people voted, and he'd clear them every now and then by entering mid, taking 1 shot, and then standing there and let them kill him.

 

When asked why he doesn't just leave (since he's clearly unhappy and costing the team 1 spot) he casual comments; "Nah, got a daily to do."

 

I've had my share of knowing a match is lost, but seriously if you're gonna give up in the first 20 seconds leave or give me a better option to boot your ***.

[DariusCalera]

I think a better vote to kick option would also go a long way (in light of someone mentioning solo-only players there for dailies, etc...)

 

Just had probably one of the most annoying matches to date, and I'm not even sure it was vs. a Premade. Some guy shouts out beginning of the match 2/0/6 (civil war). Not only is this a terrible strategy, but once no one follows it (and so it ends up me going toward snow, and a very disorganized 3/4 or something) he begins to berate people in chat. Not even 20 seconds into the match, he's already declared he's given up, not gonna try, and sits on the node farming medals.

 

I'm unable to leave the node because he won't even call incomings, and attempts to kick him fail as anytime it's mentioned not enough people voted, and he'd clear them every now and then by entering mid, taking 1 shot, and then standing there and let them kill him.

 

When asked why he doesn't just leave (since he's clearly unhappy and costing the team 1 spot) he casual comments; "Nah, got a daily to do."

 

I've had my share of knowing a match is lost, but seriously if you're gonna give up in the first 20 seconds leave or give me a better option to boot your ***.

 

Had a similar match myself in a CW today.

 

One player called out a plan but it lasted all of a minute because the people that went to snow weren't able to take it. At which point, he sat at grass berating people. We reorganized and took mid, he was still calling people names, and we proceeded to win the match.

 

So yes, I would support a better /kick option because of people like this.

[Catharian]

I remember an interview with an old Everquest dev, when asked what he had learned over the years. And he said it was "Players always follow the path of least resistance."

The easiest way to comms is to form a team that can win in regular warzones. Forget ranked. It isn't the player's fault they form teams and win. And it isn't the player's fault that those on the receiving end of those easy team wins are finding their path too steep. It's Bioware's.

 

This is one of the best and most concise posts I've seen yet on this topic. Thank you.

 

All of the ranting and raving boils down to this. It is far easier to form a group of 4 and que regs and win than it is to get an ops group of 8 and que ranked for losses. Even with the greater reward level of ranked, the ques tend to take longer, which offsets the gain. Therefore, that's what we see happen - the path of least resistance.

[Technohic]

skill based matchmaking

a "solo-only" toggle at a reduced reward rate (stay in regularl queue but decline to fight premades)

improved RWZ system

in-game VOIP

group finder for PvP

a short preview window of the WZ you are about to load into

remove respec inside WZ, and use a matchmaker that tries to balance class roles (2 tanks, 2 heals, 4 dps)

 

 

^ all suggestions that would help to improve the quality of Regs. quit all the QQ and put on your thinking cap. i could post a novel about how frustrated bad PUGs make me during Regs, but my time/effort is better spent offering ideas on the forums to help the devs improve our game; not just b*tch and moan about stuff completely out of my control.

 

I like skill based matchmaking

 

Not sure about the solo only toggle. i likely wouldn't use it but it might slow queue pop times. At the same time, it would mean if I don't do the solo only; I won't be put in a group with people who whine so much about premades and it might mean more opportunity that I am teamed with a premade or at least people who know what they are doing to a degree.

 

Improved RWZ system would be a good thing for the few premades who are really the tough fights due to being so organized. It would encourage the really good ones to do rateds because they are that good.

 

In game VOIP I am kind of against. If I really wanted to talk to people, I suppose I would just joint a guild that uses it rather than have a channel filled with random people. I do suppose it does give at least the possibility of it being used effectively to PUGs, even if not likely.

[Jadescythe]

What a ridiculous comment.

 

Solo players keep the queues alive. Period. People want to log on and play a fair match. There isn't one shred of evident that any one person can be labeled a bad player just because they aren't going to sit in fleet and spam for a group.

 

The truth of the matter is premades are rolling the PUG queues because a coordinated team is exponentially more effective that a group of 8 solo players, no matter the skill of the player.

 

PoT5 has become and imp playground for premade teams sitting in queue. Because of the mechanics of the system premades with 3 and 4 players often get grouped together while a team of reps is almost always solo players.

 

This is out of control, especially at night. Getting a weekly in sometimes take 2 weeks.

 

We need a balancing system when queuing or a solo only queue....end of story.

 

I PUG warzones almost every day. I can 100% tell you that the reason most PUGs lose to premades is skill and nothing else, especially on POT5. It has nothing to do with Pub or Imp, there is just an overall ridiculously low amount of skill on the server.

 

I have no problems doing my job (whatever I'm specced into) because my numbers rival those of the other side. But when my teammates each have 100k damage or less and 200k for the highest healer in level 55 warzones, you are going to lose. It's as simply as that. And you can make the "numbers don't matter" argument all day long, but the fact is they do.

 

Sure, you can win a huttball 6-0 in 3 minutes without having any real numbers, but the losing side obviously didn't have the damage to kill the ball carrier. If they did, it wouldn't be 6-0. While we're on the subject, when you're down 3-0 and the guy is almost at the goal anyway, just get to mid and stop messing around in the pit being ridiculous. Common sense is at an all time low in warzones these days.

 

How can we hold/take a node in ACW or NC when the team can't manage 1 kill? You can't CC cap through 4-5 enemies unless they are horrible. I've literally had games where the other side had 2 people equal my entire team's damage. One to equal out mine and a second to cover everyone else in the warzone. It's pathetic, it really is. I understand that not everyone is going to put up 500k+ every warzone, but the ridiculous amount of 50k damage/protection/heals I see in warzones is out of hand at this point.

 

If you came to POT5 in transfers or have been there for awhile, please get better. It's not hard to take a look on the forums to get help with your class or find someone in game that will help you out. But if you keep queuing up and losing, maybe you should look at your own play rather than that of the other team. If you blame every loss on the other team then you are part of the problem, not the solution.

 

The amount of whining and giving up on the server these days is out of control. I had a team give up down 30 points in ACW because the other team had 2 nodes. Literally 4 people camping our side 2 minutes into the match. I had 2 players stand at the node and watch them 3 cap just so the game would end faster. This is why PUGs keep losing. It's easier to just take the loss to get comms faster than actually try and get better to win.

 

/endrant

[Sharee]

Not sure about the solo only toggle. i likely wouldn't use it but it might slow queue pop times.

 

The idea is, you wouldn't use it most of the time.

 

It would just give you an option to use on those nights where you face premade after premade after premade, and your only options are either continue banging your head against a brick wall for the rest of the night or quit.

 

In that case, you can choose to get slower queue times in exchange for possibly getting a more balanced match that you actually have a chance to win.

[Pistols]

So many bads blaming groups as opposed to looking at themselves....

 

[AlrikFassbauer]

Meanwhile the "goods" still look at themselves, self-righteous ...

[skotish]

So many bads blaming groups as opposed to looking at themselves....

 

 

Good players don't play swtor pvp lol

[Atramar]

So many bads blaming groups as opposed to looking at themselves....

 

 

seen a guy complaining 'you imps all suck' on imp-imp voidstar.

end score table - he had 30k dps, 5k heals 0 protection.

 

yup, premades are the problem.

[Pistols]

Good players don't play swtor pvp lol

 

Sure they do, they're just hard to see amongst the incompetent, who'd rather blame others for their failures.

 

[Technohic]

The idea is, you wouldn't use it most of the time.

 

It would just give you an option to use on those nights where you face premade after premade after premade, and your only options are either continue banging your head against a brick wall for the rest of the night or quit.

 

In that case, you can choose to get slower queue times in exchange for possibly getting a more balanced match that you actually have a chance to win.

 

You would still get slower queue times due to the population being split.

 

In theory; I should have as likely as a chance to be teamed up with a premade (last night I got with a group of 4 and a group of 3 then my; and that was pretty nice, actually) as I would be placed against them, but something tells me that the system they have in place now looks to fill 8 spots with as easy of math as possible. So, if you have 2 groups of 4, it sees adding another group of 4 as being the quickest route to form a team. If they change that, it wouldn't nearly be as big of problem as it is made out to be.

[justandulas]

"How you expect to run with the wolves come night if you spend all day sparring with the puppies?" - Omar Little

[maverickmatt]

Sure they do, they're just hard to see amongst the incompetent, who'd rather blame others for their failures.

 

 

Hmm. I've heard that before...

 

I would hope that you are perceptive enough to see that throwing random players in a match with a premade, who by all rights is qualified to play Ranked, is stacking the odds against them.

 

No, competitive teams are not unbeatable. However, the skill required to outplay those competitive teams is something that most players do not possess. Considering they do not have any of the advantages listed in the posts above me, their skill must exceed the opponents so drastically that no advantage the competitive team has even matters. It's highly unlikely that this will occur, which leads to the facerolling so often mentioned here.

 

You know it's an issue when you queue solo. I can't tell you how many times I've been triple-capped in the first 2 minutes (stupid Op roll), only to have my opponents spawn camp us because they can. When you finally get a chance to target cycle you see it's a 4man competitive team, if not 2 of them.

 

You can throw out your view that "playerz need 2 l2p NOOBZ TURRIBADZ", but I would throw out an opposing view. Competitive teams should want to face opponents of a similar skill level, with the same advantages. The blame for the issue does not solely fall on the Pugger, you see.

 

Since, in today's society, you cannot reasonably expect anyone to take a path other than the one of least resistance, we need a matchmaking system that would match skill v. skill and make it more fun for all.

[Pistols]

Hmm. I've heard that before...

 

I would hope that you are perceptive enough to see that throwing random players in a match with a premade, who by all rights is qualified to play Ranked, is stacking the odds against them.

 

No, competitive teams are not unbeatable. However, the skill required to outplay those competitive teams is something that most players do not possess. Considering they do not have any of the advantages listed in the posts above me, their skill must exceed the opponents so drastically that no advantage the competitive team has even matters. It's highly unlikely that this will occur, which leads to the facerolling so often mentioned here.

 

You know it's an issue when you queue solo. I can't tell you how many times I've been triple-capped in the first 2 minutes (stupid Op roll), only to have my opponents spawn camp us because they can. When you finally get a chance to target cycle you see it's a 4man competitive team, if not 2 of them.

 

You can throw out your view that "playerz need 2 l2p NOOBZ TURRIBADZ", but I would throw out an opposing view. Competitive teams should want to face opponents of a similar skill level, with the same advantages. The blame for the issue does not solely fall on the Pugger, you see.

 

Since, in today's society, you cannot reasonably expect anyone to take a path other than the one of least resistance, we need a matchmaking system that would match skill v. skill and make it more fun for all.

 

Groups =/= Automatic faceroll let alone an automatic win.

 

This fact has been proven time and time again. As someone who queue's regularly as solo, I have 0 issues with facing premades, and if I lose than so be it. Nobody is "forced" to solo PUG WZ's, plenty of tools to allow for those to group up.

 

Therefore, the argument IMO is moot.

 

Just my opinion.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Pistols

[funkiestj]

and they wont ever... you know why?

 

because even remotely suggesting that grouping in an MMO should be even a tiny bit against the rules, is insane

 

we need skill based matchmaking. not separate queues.

 

We are all just repeating ourselves so I guess I'll do my part and repeat myself.

 

NOT THE PROBLEM: premade vs solo

 

THE PROBLEM: too many one sided faceroll matches

 

SOLUTION: better match making.

[maverickmatt]

Groups =/= Automatic faceroll let alone an automatic win.

 

This fact has been proven time and time again. As someone who queue's regularly as solo, I have 0 issues with facing premades, and if I lose than so be it. Nobody is "forced" to solo PUG WZ's, plenty of tools to allow for those to group up.

 

Therefore, the arguement IMO is moot.

 

Just my opinion.

 

And a valid opinion it is. I agree with you, but..

 

What happens when your casual player, who is interested in nothing more than having a bit of fun, DOES get rolled by competitive premades over and over? Does he continue playing? Unlikely. You can argue that the advantages are available to ALL (and they are) but not everyone wants to treat this game as work, or even as a sport. Would you continue to alienate what would seem to be a good portion of your PvP playerbase? A smart answer would be, "no".

 

Without matching skill v. skill, this is exactly what you will continue to do. You and I, and several others in this thread, may not have as much of an issue with the often lopsided matches, but others do.

 

You are very vocal in your task to improve PvP here. I see it all the time, in every thread. If the matchmaking doesn't get resolved, nothing else will matter. There may not be a large enough population of PvPers to bother with improvements. Casuals are a bigger group than Competitives, and if you remove their desire to PvP, you kill it altogether.

[Jadescythe]

Now taking all bets on whether or not the OP still plays the game...

[sanchito]

Groups =/= Automatic faceroll let alone an automatic win.

 

This fact has been proven time and time again. As someone who queue's regularly as solo, I have 0 issues with facing premades, and if I lose than so be it. Nobody is "forced" to solo PUG WZ's, plenty of tools to allow for those to group up.

 

Therefore, the arguement IMO is moot.

 

Just my opinion.

 

The problem in this thread is that a lot of people equal premade with 4 top players when in fact most premades are not. However if you do make a premade with 4 top players, then it is pretty much an automatic win, unless the other team has at least 3 top players as well. Chances of that happening in a pug are currently pretty slim, and the main reason more and more people are calling for any kind of matchmaking system.

 

Wouldn't it be in your and your premades interest too to get to play against better opponents?

[cashogy_reborn]

The problem in this thread is that a lot of people equal premade with 4 top players when in fact most premades are not. However if you do make a premade with 4 top players, then it is pretty much an automatic win, unless the other team has at least 3 top players as well. Chances of that happening in a pug are currently pretty slim, and the main reason more and more people are calling for any kind of matchmaking system.

 

Wouldn't it be in your and your premades interest too to get to play against better opponents?

 

i think Pistols is more referring to the people whining that Bioware should make premades stop probing their rears.....

 

i dont see how anyone even remotely interested in PvP would be against a skill based matchmaking system.

 

as much as low skilled players dont like playing against high skilled players, we dont like playing with them.

[sanchito]

i think Pistols is more referring to the people whining that Bioware should make premades stop probing their rears.....

 

i dont see how anyone even remotely interested in PvP would be against a skill based matchmaking system.

 

as much as low skilled players dont like playing against high skilled players, we dont like playing with them.

I'm a bit unhappy that skilled players don't say more loud and clear that they don't want to play AGAINST them as well

[Jadescythe]

I'm a bit unhappy that skilled players don't say more loud and clear that they don't want to play AGAINST them as well

 

I think we'd all prefer they actually got better, but that seems to be too much to ask.

[Vral_Haas]

And a valid opinion it is. I agree with you, but..

 

What happens when your casual player, who is interested in nothing more than having a bit of fun, DOES get rolled by competitive premades over and over? Does he continue playing? Unlikely. You can argue that the advantages are available to ALL (and they are) but not everyone wants to treat this game as work, or even as a sport. Would you continue to alienate what would seem to be a good portion of your PvP playerbase? A smart answer would be, "no".

 

Without matching skill v. skill, this is exactly what you will continue to do. You and I, and several others in this thread, may not have as much of an issue with the often lopsided matches, but others do.

 

You are very vocal in your task to improve PvP here. I see it all the time, in every thread. If the matchmaking doesn't get resolved, nothing else will matter. There may not be a large enough population of PvPers to bother with improvements. Casuals are a bigger group than Competitives, and if you remove their desire to PvP, you kill it altogether.

 

Totally agree here.