Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Boch]

Just played a Random WZ (hypergate) with my rep. THe other team had 1 Premade of the guild "Utini" made by 3 players. All called "Jawa" with variations (Jawâ, Jâwa, and ****).

 

They were the whole WZ in our pylon, healing themselves preventing us to cap (not kiilling us, only healing and doing AOE when we were trying to cap). The rest of their team never moved of their pylon. Longest Hypergate I've ever played. That ruined the whole WZ...

 

This has no thing to do with premades. This has to do with how over tuned healing is.

[Picasso]

No sense in necrophelia ever Edited July 3, 2013 by Picasso
Necro thread

[MotorCityMan]

Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

 

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

 

Op posted that 8 months ago. There hasn't even been so much as a 'How do ya do' out of Bioware in response.

It's only an assumption, but seems a pretty sure bet their is no solution of any kind forth coming anytime soon.

Very disappointing.

[Sharee]

As I said before, it is unrealistic to think a player can/should have control over how much "fun" they have via an in-game mechanic, since this is contrary to the very nature of the beast (PvP).

 

That's a straw man argument. No-one is demanding to have fun in warzones, as that's indeed unrealistic - however that is not what i asked for.

 

Instead, what i asked for is a way to NOT to be subjected to something you KNOW is un-fun for you. That's something different, and not at all unrealistic.

 

Groups in general require a certain amount of solo-queue'd players for vital filling and back filling. The regular queue will suffer without them.

 

Regardless, it is not right to expect players to engage in an activity that is not fun for them, no matter how noble the goal. You simply cannot hold a customer hostage just so that other customers are satisfied. That is wrong on such a basic level i wonder why we even are having this conversation.

 

If a player wishes to avoid certain elements in the regular warzone that is their choice of course. The price of that choice must fall squarely on the player making it though, not on the regular queue as a whole.

 

So if we allow the solo-queuer to avoid groups, the price of that choice will fall on the regular queue as a whole...

 

...but if that player leaves the game altogether, the price of that choice will NOT fall on the regular queue as a whole?

 

Just think about it. As long as the player won't face your premade willingly, it doesn't matter one iota whether you allow him his solo-toggle or whether he just quits. Your queue will suffer the same. But the game as a whole will suffer way more if players outright quit, instead of just playing the way they want.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Sharee

[cashogy_reborn]

this thread is just boring now

[akabane_k]

this thread is just boring now

 

meh, its devolved into "losing isnt fun, so bioware should change the queue so i win more"

[cashogy_reborn]

meh, its devolved into "losing isnt fun, so bioware should change the queue so i win more"

 

i dont think it devolved into that.... thats what is was from the very first post.

[MotorCityMan]

meh, its devolved into "losing isnt fun, so bioware should change the queue so i win more"

 

About the only threads that won't deconstruct into winning and losing are the ones about how you look doing it.

 

Tis a game, after all.

[akabane_k]

About the only threads that won't deconstruct into winning and losing are the ones about how you look doing it.

 

Tis a game, after all.

 

It seems the only thing some of these people hate more than losing is improving themselves. Makes you wonder why they pvp in the first place. That or they are arrogant enough to believe they cannot improve further. Or prideful enough that they should win regardless of their own skill.

[Lachryphage]

Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

 

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

So what you're saying is you're mad that people are using teamwork in an MMORPG. Sounds legit.

[Sharee]

It seems the only thing some of these people hate more than losing is improving themselves. Makes you wonder why they pvp in the first place. That or they are arrogant enough to believe they cannot improve further. Or prideful enough that they should win regardless of their own skill.

 

Hey, i organized a highschool boxing match the other week, and guess what, the participants were whining that i put Mike Tyson on the roster!

 

I mean,

it seems the only thing some of these kids hate more than losing is improving themselves. Makes you wonder why they box in the first place. That or they are arrogant enough to believe they cannot improve further. Or prideful enough that they should win regardless of their own skill.

 

[Atramar]

Hey, i organized a highschool boxing match the other week, and guess what, the participants were whining that i put Mike Tyson on the roster!

 

I mean,

it seems the only thing some of these kids hate more than losing is improving themselves. Makes you wonder why they box in the first place. That or they are arrogant enough to believe they cannot improve further. Or prideful enough that they should win regardless of their own skill.

 

 

bad example. difference in 'gear' (like muscles in this scenario) is far more then one you get in pvp. Here we have few %, where Tyson would KO highschool kid just by stepping into a ring..

 

better example would be soccer, where 4 in team A is palying cards (crew skills) 2 lays on the ground doing nothing (last night I met a sniper who complaind on how we suck but he had 7k total damage), goal keeper hides from the ball (ninja caps), 2 players try to score solo ignoring anything on their way and only 2 people are actualyl helping each other. Team B in that example have a defender who helps goal keeper, calls middle fielders to help in case 2 from team A actually get to the attack position, and other 8 is passing between them selves to keep score going up.

 

can't express how much that example is painful to me as I don't like football, but had to be done.

 

my point is, problem is not team B playing right, problem is team A playing wrong.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Atramar

[Sharee]

bad example. difference in 'gear' (like muscles in this scenario) is far more then one you get in pvp. Here we have few %, where Tyson would KO highschool kid just by stepping into a ring.

 

... which is an excellent analogy of a PUG getting utterly destroyed and farmed at the spawn point.

 

I fail to see how this is a bad example. It illustrates very well why people have the right to complain when put into a match that is so completely one-sided it's not even funny, be it a kid facing Tyson in a ring or a ragtag random PUG facing a pro-level premade in a warzone. The result will be the same.

 

Telling the PUG that "you just have to improve and it will be a fair match" is like telling the kids competing with Usain Bolt in a 100m run that "you just have to run faster and it will be a fair run"

Edited July 3, 2013 by Sharee

[MotorCityMan]

problem is not team B playing right, problem is team A playing wrong.

 

Right, it is a problem. So doesn't it make sense to have all the team Bs playing each other and all the team As playing each other? Or at least increase the likelihood that they do?

[Atramar]

... which is an excellent analogy of a PUG getting utterly destroyed and farmed at the spawn point.

 

I fail to see how this is a bad example. It illustrates very well why people have the right to complain when put into a match that is so completely one-sided it's not even funny, be it a kid facing Tyson in a ring or a ragtag random PUG facing a pro-level premade in a warzone. The result will be the same.

 

Telling the PUG that "you just have to improve and it will be a fair match" is like telling the kids competing with Usain Bolt in a 100m run that "you just have to run faster and it will be a fair run"

 

it's bad example because 1 player team pug vs 1 player team premade is more or less equal (depending on classes ofcourse).

if 8 pug players will acctually play it's more or less equal to 8 premade team.

reason why we have scenarios like now, is from 8 players in pug team, 2 use only 3 buttons, where 1 is move forward, 2 is move back and 3 is one spammable attack. 2 players are afk, and, if we'r lucky, 4 players help each other.

so it's 4 vs 8.

 

I've been in groups who get spawn killed. Why were they spawn killed? cause 2 players who escaped spawn kill hid on side of warzone and pray their lucky stars not to be seen, and other 6 are going one by one, or in pairs, against 4 attackers and 2 healer.

Healers unguarded drop like a fly and can't heal. Dps with no heal die and can't dps..

I only PUG,so I see it every day.

'oi, atramar, why u no heal me'

'I can't heal if I'm dead mate'

[Carter_Mathis]

Telling the PUG that "you just have to improve and it will be a fair match" is like telling the kids competing with Usain Bolt in a 100m run that "you just have to run faster and it will be a fair run"

 

No, telling a pug that "you just have to improve and it will be a fair match" is like telling the kids competing with an above average sprinter in a 100m run that "you just have to run faster and it will be a fair run"

 

You aren't regularly fighting the best player in the world, most premades are just a few above average players. There is no acceptable reason that a pug should be content with playing poorly. Hell, I've seen a guy with only 1 hand consistently top damage in matches... because he isn't horrible

[Carter_Mathis]

Right, it is a problem. So doesn't it make sense to have all the team Bs playing each other and all the team As playing each other? Or at least increase the likelihood that they do?

 

No, because this is SW:TOR and not the special olympics

[Sharee]

it's bad example because 1 player team pug vs 1 player team premade is more or less equal.

 

They are more or less equal in the same sense as Tyson is more or less equal to a highschool kid: both have two arms, two legs, and a head.

[Atramar]

They are more or less equal in the same sense as Tyson is more or less equal to a highschool kid: both have two arms, two legs, and a head.

 

we all know that when you do PreMade you get 'premade buff' which gives you 200% more damage out put

 

No, because this is SW:TOR and not the special olympics

sometimes I think it is....

Edited July 3, 2013 by Atramar

[Sharee]

You aren't regularly fighting the best player in the world, most premades are just a few above average players.

 

Any human competitive activity is only fun for all participants if all participants are of roughly the same skill.

If the premades are above average players then they should face other above average players, not bad players.

If they are the best players in the world, they should play other best players in the world, not the above averages or the bads.

 

This is why there are leagues in real world sports sorted by skill, instead of all teams competing in the same league(like currently the case in swtor).

[Sharee]

we all know that when you do PreMade you get 'premade buff' which gives you 200% more damage out put .

 

If that was meant to suggest premades do not have any advantage compared to pug's i have to point you to an official statement by a rather well-known MMO company: "... organized Battleground group...

...against a randomly assembled group is creating a scenario where that coordinated group has a huge advantage."

 

Emphasis on "huge advantage". Take it as you will.

 

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/blizzard-stands-up-to-pre-mades-in-random-battlegrounds/

[Atramar]

Any human competitive activity is only fun for all participants if all participants are of roughly the same skill.

If the premades are above average players then they should face other above average players, not bad players.

If they are the best players in the world, they should play other best players in the world, not the above averages or the bads.

 

This is why there are leagues in real world sports sorted by skill, instead of all teams competing in the same league(like currently the case in swtor).

 

we have 4 leagues. 10-29, 30-54,55,55 RWZ

we could introduce 'dummy league'.

only idea I've seen I liked was win/lose ratio. Only downfall I have with it is people losing on purpose to get either dumped to 'dummy league' or to be grouped with 'pro premade'.

 

If that was meant to suggest premades do not have any advantage compared to pug's i have to point you to an official statement by a rather well-known MMO company <ugly yellow text>

 

Emphasis on "huge advantage". Take it as you will.

 

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/blizzard-stands-up-to-pre-mades-in-random-battlegrounds/

 

in group, yes. 8 players who help each other will face 4 players while other 4 of that team is playing with them selves.

initial statment remains, competetive player in PUG equals competetive player in Premade.

to put it with mike tyson example.

one mike tyson is equal one mike tyson. avarage pug is 4 mike tyson and 4 school kids vs 8 mike tysons. (dunno what we'r arguing about here...)

Edited July 3, 2013 by Atramar

[MotorCityMan]

If a team isn't more than the sum of it's parts, why not allow 2-8 player premades in warzones? Why cut it off at 4? Edited July 3, 2013 by MotorCityMan

[Sharee]

in group, yes.

 

So you previous suggestion that premades do not have any special advantage compared to PUG's only applied to a NON-GROUP situation?

[MotorCityMan]

No, because this is SW:TOR and not the special olympics

 

Course not. Special Olympians are athletes who enjoy competition. Not vid gamers staring at monitors.

Edited July 3, 2013 by MotorCityMan