Bioware - When are you going to fix the class imbalance in PvP?

[KBSIP]

this is very true. I don't see many dps ops either. slingers/snipers are there. iunno what's up with the commandos. they're the only AC I know of that is the least desirable in every possible role.

 

their healers are better than sorcerers by a good margin

[DarthOvertone]

Right now it isn't even close. They're the only two classes that can consistently put out approaching a million damage in RWZs. Someone at Bioware is asleep at the wheel.

 

BS. Please do showcase this series of 1 Million+ WZ performances. Screenshots or it didn't happen. I can't wait to see this.

 

 

I see, so rather than address my argument in any substantive or meaningful way, you attempt to deflect by typing out some irrelevant and off topic information.

 

Exactly what is your argument? I haven't seen you make one yet.

 

 

Was gonna go dig for those screenshots, then I checked your post history and realised you're a 50 pyro pt who has only just done 500k damage :D Absolutely wasting my time talking to someone so uniformed and inexperienced on the subject, daym.

 

Translation: I was exaggerating about the 900K+ per WZ bit and I have no screenshot evidence or proof to back up my said exaggerations.

 

Most people don't need it proven to them that powertechs can do such damage, cus it's frigging obvious, and they've seen it with their own eyes. You seem so stubborn for some reason, maybe you just haven't seen it cus you're new. But ok, I found one for you.

 

930k by PT

 

Nobody denies that it can happen. However, it certainly doesn't happen with the ease and frequency you make it out to be. BTW, that screenie wasn't a RWZ. Anybody can roll recruit gear nubs and stack stats when the opposition is all healers and no dps. lawl

Edited July 25, 2012 by DarthOvertone

[Sinsavz]

 

Translation: I was exaggerating about the 900K+ per WZ bit and I have no screenshot evidence or proof to back up my said exaggerations.

 

Do you people not play pvp at all and see it with your own eyes? This is absolutely baffling to me.

 

Nobody denies that it can happen. However, it certainly doesn't happen with the ease and frequency you make it out to be. BTW, that screenie wasn't a RWZ. Anybody can roll recruit gear nubs.

 

It wasn't a rated wz, but it was still a premade vs premade. He didn't specify it was rated only, as I don't think he even plays rateds himself.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Sinsavz

[stephenalandavie]

You left off Shadows/Assassins and Snipers/Gunslingers from the QQ list.

 

You know what NERF ALL THE CLASSES!

 

Lol shadows and assassins? What planet do you hail from?

 

Their two DPS specs Are highly lacking compared with other classes and their tank spec got a nerf. Wheres the FOTM with that? Its all about the PTS and marauders these days.

 

Although PTS arent too good that they can win by facerolling.

[Tasel]

exactly. now lets see how many escapes from roots/slows a PT pyro has:

PT - hmm.. ONE, every 2 minutes

now lets look at sorc - sprint ever 30 seconds? self cleanse (unlimited).

 

that's on a 1 on 1 environment. now you put in multiples, and a PT is perma-snared (not part of resolve), while a sorc can freely run away.

 

so again, i say to the sorc having problems with the Pyro, stop standing in melee range.

 

It's obvious you don't played a class with a cleanse. A Healing Spec Sorc can only cleanse mental, force, and physical effects. This doesn't include the elemental slowdown (which I think counts as Tech) that the PT Pyro has. Op or Merc healer can cleanse tech, mental, and physical but can't cleanse force. All this to say that there are slows and roots that the cleanse classes can't do anything about.

[Gidoru]

Why do you always resort to insults? I'm at least attempting to be civil but you just post "omgz u suck where r screenshots??"

 

Most people don't need it proven to them that powertechs can do such damage, cus it's frigging obvious, and they've seen it with their own eyes. You seem so stubborn for some reason, maybe you just haven't seen it cus you're new. But ok, I found one for you.

 

930k by PT

 

Not to say that Powertechs arent OP because i think they are, but you have to take these screenshots with a grain of salt. 99% of them with damage over 700k are 1 cap Alderaans for most or all of the game meaning that they are around 20 mins in length. The others are likely stalemate games in other warzones.

 

It is not possible to achieve these kinds of number consistently or in a warzone that does not involve special circumstances.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=493928

Here is another thread compiling highest stats. As you can see nearly all top stats take place in 1 cap Alderraans.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Gidoru

[Theagg]

I don't screenshot other peoples numbers funnily enough , but why would I lie? Do you think Pt's aren't capable of consistently pushing out 900k+?

 

Here's a DPS one I found of another guy though, who I'm pretty sure is not even full war hero yet. 1453 DPS. The highest on your server by anyone was 1085..

 

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g158/leesolo/dpsclear.jpg

 

Yep, that would be just one of several of the Powertechs on the Red Eclipse EU server who regularly dish out heap loads of damage and destruction. Just over 900k damage for some of the "worst" offenders using assault spec and they can regularly put down people faster than most Op/Scoundrels could. Watching one or two Powertechs rapidly burn their way through a pug team in a manner and speed which none of the other classes seem to do is quite painful really

 

Its simply a case of standing back at the 10m range, kiting the target whilst applying DoT's and a near permanent slow (that as a single target no sooner have you cleansed it, it's back again) and dishing out the hefty damage from Flame Burst and railshots, Job done.

 

Taking into account that a heck of a lot of their primary damage and spamable damage is elemental damage, its easy to see why they can pull off figures and kills like these. Very nice....or not, depending on your perspective

[Jherad]

Wasn't going to post this one, as I look pretty terrible in it, but hey - fix Commandos!

 

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/704154/Valor/Over900k.jpg

 

Seriously, numbers like that (and higher) happen ALL THE TIME in high end RWZs, that screenshot is not an outlier. The only common factor is that the only people consistently doing that damage are good PTs/Vanguards and Sent/Maras.

 

When they do so much more than anyone else, there is very little point in picking other classes for DPS in your A-Team.

[mtsr]

Class and tree adjustments come to all eventually.

[shegoy]

My point is... and always has been. That there will never be a perfectly balanced MMO so these nerf threads and all the crying done over them are useless. Why don't you pull up my many comments and find that about 50 times. I've said it over and over and it's the only reason I comment on these threads and THAT is fact! Statistically and mathematically it is impossible. And speaking of the SUBTLETIES of the English language... you obviously missed my point in my last comment. Maybe this here will break it down into terms you can understand...

 

There is no way to balance an MMO where everyone will agree it is balanced.... impossible. No matter how you look at it. Look at the last 6 months, the "balance" has shifted so many times already, damn near with every patch. Every class will get it's turn and it's not the crying on the forums that get's that accomplished... it's the developers constant battle for NEAR balance. So it shifts from class to class.

 

So... these threads are useless. Roll a class you enjoy and wait your turn to be moderately above average.

 

Thats what im doing i love the BH class it suits my play-style i shelved my Merc arsenal spec until they get some sort of adjustment made to even things out a little so no choice but play a PT Pyro.

[babykahna]

im guessing the discussion is about PTs being overpowered? Well my group exploits that fact by running 2-3 PTs in our rateds(im not a PT). So yeah its a telling sign that they're valued above other dps classes simply because of the burst and survivability. Its very hard to deny the fact that PTs are usually in the top few dps at the end of games..its even harder to deny that people dont enjoy having PTs on their team. But for the sake of an argument...lets say PTs are nerfed to keep them in line with other classes...

 

then what next?

 

Marauders are OP?

Snipers are OP?

Juggs are OP?

 

 

i think the solution isn't to nerf but to increase the survivability of other classes. The dps buff that bioware brought about in pvp in order to make it a goddamn zerg fest has ruined many other specs for many other classes. Instead of nerfing one particular class...maybe bring that dps buff back in line with survivability. Maybe change the way pvp works instead of making it a zergfest. Nerfing is never the solution because then you all will simply have a new class to complain about.

[Sookster]

Thats what im doing i love the BH class it suits my play-style i shelved my Merc arsenal spec until they get some sort of adjustment made to even things out a little so no choice but play a PT Pyro.

Pretty much this, my merc is mainly my Black Hole/Belsavis daily runner now, it's just no fun playing it in warzones anymore. I stuck to my assassin for pvp, it's the most fun and most effective class for me.

[Dencre]

Instead of QQing about what a terribad player you are I would recommend learning how w/e class you play is suppose to be played and using that play-style. I would also suggest you get some gear. Finding good people to queue up with also helps.

[LarryRow]

im guessing the discussion is about PTs being overpowered? Well my group exploits that fact by running 2-3 PTs in our rateds(im not a PT). So yeah its a telling sign that they're valued above other dps classes simply because of the burst and survivability. Its very hard to deny the fact that PTs are usually in the top few dps at the end of games..its even harder to deny that people dont enjoy having PTs on their team. But for the sake of an argument...lets say PTs are nerfed to keep them in line with other classes...

<snip>

i think the solution isn't to nerf but to increase the survivability of other classes. The dps buff that bioware brought about in pvp in order to make it a gosh darn zerg fest has ruined many other specs for many other classes. Instead of nerfing one particular class...maybe bring that dps buff back in line with survivability. Maybe change the way pvp works instead of making it a zergfest. Nerfing is never the solution because then you all will simply have a new class to complain about.

 

I would be careful about an across-the-board increase in survivability, unless you don't like nodes getting capped. A game-wide survivability buff would certainly require retooling the cap times and door timers.

 

Here is a really good and simple quote on Powertechs, from the "mechanics question" thread:

 

In my case, I believe the simplicty and the efficiency of the [Pyrotech's] attack cycle, combined with unmitigated damage is causing the problem.

 

I think the idea of making their damage mitigatable (not a word ) is really worth looking at to restore some balance.

[iTryHard]

Just curious to any that said the Watchman Sentinel's rotation was easy and required few buttons, which classes are you comparing them to? Balance Shadows, Vigilance Guardians, those two classes I have high respect for, their rotations seem overcomplicated...

Also, Sentinels don't have a "rotation" persay after their intitial opening rotation (Leap->OS->Zealous->Cauterize->MercSlash->MasterStrike), they have a priority list of abilities that need to be used, this is much harder than the Powertech Pyro's fairly simple rotation of IM->TD-RS->RP->if proc, RS->if not FB spam until RS proc->repeat FB spam until RP is off CD->RP->RS, if proc. And so on, it might look complicated but really you just have to use TD on CD, keep a DoT up, and spam RP/FB to get RS procs while mixing in auto attacks. So, the majority of the time you'll be using four abilities, RP, FB, and RS with a TD every 15 seconds. DoT upkeep should be a non issue. So, that's what... 4 buttons in the main rotation?

P.S. I might be a little biased towards Powertechs since I don't have a level 50 one, but if someone wanted to break down the Sentinel's "rotation" (might be difficult since priority) that'd be awesome.

[bobmcbo]

and STILL nothing was done about sages/sorcerers

[TonyDragonflame]

BS. Please do showcase this series of 1 Million+ WZ performances. Screenshots or it didn't happen. I can't wait to see this.

 

Here it is:

http://s52.radikal.ru/i135/1207/f5/f99755b56ce4.jpg

 

Pyrotech, Ranked WZ, 1141951 damage.

 

Pyro is not OP?

 

Show now please me similar screenshots of any other class...

[oredith]

Here it is:

http://s52.radikal.ru/i135/1207/f5/f99755b56ce4.jpg

 

Pyrotech, Ranked WZ, 1141951 damage.

 

Pyro is not OP?

 

Show now please me similar screenshots of any other class...

Block reason: Forbidden Category "****ography"

 

can't see it.

 

since it's consistent, i'm sure you can link like 15-20 more screen shots of different PT that is doing the same thing?

 

i mean, 20 out of a few hundred thousand shouldn't be hard, right?

Edited July 25, 2012 by oredith

[mangarrage]

Thats a new ss to me as it is now the 6th I have seen over 1million

 

I think whats even nicer in the ss is the classes in the top all maurader/PT lol

But really those classes need no adjustments whatsoever

 

fail balance fail game

[skotish]

can't see it.

 

since it's consistent, i'm sure you can link like 15-20 more screen shots of different PT that is doing the same thing?

 

i mean, 20 out of a few hundred thousand shouldn't be hard, right?

 

You amaze me of your ignorance of how OP your class is

 

If the man showed you 20 screen shots you would ask for 40 am i right ?

Edited July 25, 2012 by skotish

[oredith]

You amaze me of your ignorance of how OP your class is

Which would make gathering up a bunch of examples of different people doing very high damage very easy, right? the class is so easy and OP that everyone can do it?

[SaulSerpine]

How do you nerf pt without killing AP tree and pyro merc ?

[oredith]

How do you nerf pt without killing AP tree and pyro merc ?

i've not so much "suggested" this, but rather, simply speculated on this in other thread.

 

they're going to nerf PT pyro by nerfing PT shieldtech tier 1 talents.

 

rail loader and intimidation (and vanguard equiv) will probably both get whacked in half, to 3% each.

Edited July 25, 2012 by oredith

[DarthOvertone]

i think the solution isn't to nerf but to increase the survivability of other classes. The dps buff that bioware brought about in pvp in order to make it a gosh darn zerg fest has ruined many other specs for many other classes. Instead of nerfing one particular class...maybe bring that dps buff back in line with survivability. Maybe change the way pvp works instead of making it a zergfest. Nerfing is never the solution because then you all will simply have a new class to complain about.

 

This is really a great point and is closer to home to the real issue here. Peeps QQ about DPS classes because they don't like to die. Fact of the matter is that all DPS classes, PTs/Vans & Sent/Maras included, haven't changed that much in the last few months. What has changed is Expertise. The Expertise change in a short TTK environment that favors DPS classes is the first thing that should be adjusted and evaluated here. Nerfing should always be the last option.

 

 

Here it is:

http://s52.radikal.ru/i135/1207/f5/f99755b56ce4.jpg

 

Pyrotech, Ranked WZ, 1141951 damage.

 

Pyro is not OP?

 

That's pretty crazy. I stand corrected. lol

 

Of course, it didn't help that nobody killed the dude. Do peeps even target PTs? These guys seem to just float unmolested without a care in the world.

[UGLYMRJ]

Do peeps even target PTs? These guys seem to just float unmolested without a care in the world.

 

I do when healers are down... anything that dies easily is priority for me after healers are dead.

 

Also when playing on my PT i definitely get targeted and focused. It usually doesn't happen for a few minutes but when they realize I'm nerfing their damage to my healers and I'm nailing em for some serious damage their focus often turn to me before they hit the healers. Kite... kite... and kite some more.

Edited July 25, 2012 by UGLYMRJ