Astarica Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Bioware says the will implement 8-man challenge matches in the future. Perhaps then we can put above hypothetical to the test. There's nothing hypothetical about Recruit versus BIS gear. You're talking about DPS with 13K HP against DPS with 20K HP. If you've equal class composition there's just no way you can make up just the 50% difference in HP alone. You're fighting guys that have on average 50% more HP and do more damage than you and take less damage than you. Skill isn't going to be able to trump that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawndeberry Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 They don't care about balance or pvp for that matter.This game is been going down hill since lanuch and they don't care.I mean they are raising lvl cap already, meaning they have no clue right now how to balance anything pve or pvp wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stncold Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) TOR has a lot of faults with PvP but at least more than two classes are viable in competitive PvP unlike GW2 where if things stay the same competitive teams will consistent entirely of Necros and Wars. Knowing Izzy, it'll probably be worse. GW2 is a step-backwards from GW1, saying this as somebody who beta'd GW2 and was part of a team in GW1 that dominated HoH daily. I'm honestly prob still gonna buy it just for playing casually because of no sub and the faint hope ANet gets it's act together, again with Izzy in charge of skill balance that will likely never happen. WvWvW is a joke and nothing like DaoC despite what some people claim. People actually fought in each other in DaoC instead of running around carebearing it up with taking undefended stuff. Edited July 25, 2012 by Stncold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texoc Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 TOR has a lot of faults with PvP but at least more than two classes are viable in competitive PvP unlike GW2 where if things stay the same competitive teams will consistent entirely of Necros and Wars. Knowing Izzy, it'll probably be worse. GW2 is a step-backwards from GW1, saying this as somebody who beta'd GW2 and was part of a team in GW1 that dominated HoH daily. I'm honestly prob still gonna buy it just for playing casually because of no sub and the faint hope ANet gets it's act together, again with Izzy in charge of skill balance that will likely never happen. WvWvW is a joke and nothing like DaoC despite what some people claim. People actually fought in each other in DaoC instead of running around carebearing it up with taking undefended stuff. Necros and Wars where by far the easiest class to counter this weekend...BY far!!!! HoH in gw1 ... luls.... Team Arena required more skill then HoM .... you could dominate HoM with Heroes! see if you sayed atleast top 50 gvg i would say ok... but HoM owned you ..sry and about your WvWvW statement, it entirely depends on the servers. I was fighting the whole WE in mass battles pretty much everywhere with my friends, with great tactics like building up siege weapons on the flanks of an attacking force andd crushing them within seconds with focused siege weapon fire. It was just rediculous funny =)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcron Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'll be staying... cute post tho. Have fun with GW2. ^^^^^. Gw2 looks like crap to me. Some neat ideas but meh not worth my time. First one sucked *** an I can see this one following in the same foot steps. Personally for me if my sever is full of players all the time idc if it's 500k subs it's still giving me entertainment. If severs go dead them ill move on but until then I'll play an see what BW will bring to the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 You're forgetting GW2 is probably going to be bad. I played the beta and sadly it was a COMPLETE letdown. Have fun paying for everything. But i mean... Im a juggernaut and im happy with pvp. >.> Wait until you hit endgame pvp. Then there is NO FoTM classes. Trust me. Everything balances out. Ah yes, everything balances out... See link for response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciferhawke Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 because GW2 isnt doing anything to TAKE pvpers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vwsupra Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) I'm pretty sure all thse guys who claim to run around with no gear are only posing before the Huttball matches started, or at least before they actually engage the enemy. If you're truly PvPing with like 10K HP which is the case of not wearing gear in most slots you'd simply die before you even get to do anything with no possibilty of recovering from that. It's one thing to be able to contribute in Recruit gear but contributing and winning are two totally different things. i cant speak for other people, but me and some of my friends do it all the time, take off our chest piece, pants and hide our hemets. Were all in full aug war hero gear, we have done the math and its about equal to full battlemaster gear with 15 16k hp. (As for the people saying they take off everything beside a weapon, lol we all know there eather lieing or enjoy being one shoted.) Edited July 25, 2012 by vwsupra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 because GW2 isnt doing anything to TAKE pvpers. Hoppers are hoppers. They never stay with one game very long anyways. Good riddance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaigner Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Warhammer Online: PvP Zones, Keeps, Objectives, Siege Equipment, Boiling Oil, hours beating on keep doors... Guild Wars 2: The same thing^ Been there, done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Warhammer Online: PvP Zones, Keeps, Objectives, Siege Equipment, Boiling Oil, hours beating on keep doors... Guild Wars 2: The same thing^ Been there, done that. Sounds awesome to me o.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaigner Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Sounds awesome to me o.o Yeah... just having played Warhammer Online where you actually push the battle all the way to and INSIDE their city, this watered-down version called "GW2" seems kinda weak to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koensayr Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 How about some balance changes? How about structured PvP for 1-49? I assume you mean you want more brackets than just 1-49. I'm an alt-aholic, so I'm regularly leveling up characters through the 1-49 bracket, and I will admit the 40+ characters aren't the funnest to fight against, but it's not exactly gamebreaking. Can still kill them 1v1 with a lvl 12 (granted not a high percentage if they have any brains whatsoever, but it can be done), can still win matches. That's a lot of work to start breaking it up into brackets and will honestly end up slowing down que times greatly. How about a reworked Ilum? Meh never was much for "structured" world PvP. I've personally always felt you just create a zone where killing people gives some perks, maybe add a few objectives for those who want to feel like they are doing more than zerg'ing (which they usually are anyways), and let them have at it. Again, not gamebreaking, and not something that's quick or easy. How about some change to current Warzones to make them less zergy and more objective based? They are objective based, highly so, it's largely the fault of the players not the design that zerg tactics are those most often seen (here and just about every other MMO). Voidstar is zerg'd regularly even though it's more efficient just to send 4 to each side and force the other team into either splitting evenly as well (which rarely happens) and beating you 1:1 on two fronts, or overcommitting to one side. There really is no way to prevent zergs when that is the natural inclanation of the majority of players other than creating so many objectives to chase down that it forces a team to split into ones or twos. Why do you think you see entire teams abandon a point in Alderaan to reinforce another? It's the zerg mentality, it has very little to do with warzone design. How about Arena? I'm not getting into the arena debate again. Some people love it, some people hate it. You'll lose as many PvP'ers as you might gain in my opinion. How about a possibility to make Tournaments? Pretty sure devs already talked about doing that a while back, simply a case of figuring out how to do it. Not hard to see how it'd require some work, it's not a function seen in any MMO I can think of off the top of my head. Not one that worked anyways. How about a freaking duel zone on the fleet? Long as they shove it away from the major areas of activity like WoW did when they forced it to be outside of the cities I'm fine with this, but there is no real outside of the fleet. Best bet might be to put them in the shuttle bay. There's a point by point, but bottom line: TOR isn't designed around PvP. Most MMO's aren't. Guild Wars is. If that's what your looking for, then that's your best bet. When the majority of a player base does PvE that's what a company will spend the majority of it's resources on. This is nothing new. You talked about Arena so I'm assuming your a former or current WoW player. I played that game from launch up to about a year and a half ago, it took them a very long time to figure out how to include PvP in that game to meet people's expectations, and up to the time I finally retired for good it was still 50/50 on whether a player liked it or not, and they had a ton more time to try and figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikeryo Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 guys, just to clarify this, IMHO ilum will NEVER be back unless the engine is heavily improved - which I doubt will ever happen with all the layoffs and lost subs. currently it can barely handle a 8v8 warzone. don't you remember the old 1-5 fps ilum zerg days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyube Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Warhammer Online: PvP Zones, Keeps, Objectives, Siege Equipment, Boiling Oil, hours beating on keep doors... Guild Wars 2: The same thing^ Been there, done that. To bad that warhammer was a travesty with devs being way to slow to balance(lol bright wizard) and fix stuff. Two months ago I still got stuck in random geometry. It got somewhat decent eventually but way to late, gues where those awesome pvp developers went too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrolan Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) TOR has a lot of faults with PvP but at least more than two classes are viable in competitive PvP unlike GW2 where if things stay the same competitive teams will consistent entirely of Necros and Wars. Knowing Izzy, it'll probably be worse. What not Guardians and Warriors.... no wait its Elementalists and Guardians......... Edited July 25, 2012 by Morrolan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrolan Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 guys, just to clarify this, IMHO ilum will NEVER be back unless the engine is heavily improved - which I doubt will ever happen with all the layoffs and lost subs. currently it can barely handle a 8v8 warzone. don't you remember the old 1-5 fps ilum zerg days? They have to do something, they need dynamic replayable end game content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimeStax Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 guys, just to clarify this, IMHO ilum will NEVER be back unless the engine is heavily improved - which I doubt will ever happen with all the layoffs and lost subs. currently it can barely handle a 8v8 warzone. don't you remember the old 1-5 fps ilum zerg days? I never had 5 FPS in Illum even when it was 50 vs 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsstronghold Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Problem with tor is the hero engine cant handle mass pvp...look back to the days of ilum when you had big group fights...it was fun but the engine struggled to handle it. I loved the pvp in guild wars 2 it needs some balance on some classes yes but i have never ever had so much fun playing wvwvw.... 6 members of my guild even ended up buying the pre-purchase and joining me....we had a huge blast. The dynamic pvp is a must and its such a shame tor didn't have anything like this. I enjoy playing tor for the last 7 months but apart from that i will be doing my pvp on gw2 next month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTryHard Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Why can't we play both games, GW2 doesn't have a sub cost so I plan on switching between the games every few days so I can have fun in BOTH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyda Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Why can't we play both games, GW2 doesn't have a sub cost so I plan on switching between the games every few days so I can have fun in BOTH! Why keep playing SWTor, which offers much less than GW2? 13 euros a Months for PvP-Players is hilariously overpriced atm. Edited July 25, 2012 by Fyda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_Chrome Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Why can't we play both games, GW2 doesn't have a sub cost so I plan on switching between the games every few days so I can have fun in BOTH! i will be doing this hel i already purchased GW2 and i love SWTOR pvp also, any form of pvp for me is fun its all about playing withing the rules of the game system that makes it fun to me not whatever it is lacking... opinions are like ....... everyone has one and they all stink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovia Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Hi! How about some balance changes? How about structured PvP for 1-49? How about a reworked Ilum? How about some change to current Warzones to make them less zergy and more objective based? How about Arena? How about a possibility to make Tournaments? How about a freaking duel zone on the fleet? I mean, the fight isn't lost, GW2 isn't Star Wars and not everyone will enjoy the combat in it, so go Bioware? I mean, it seems that Bioware is doing nothing atm to keep the PvP-Players here. Thanks for reading! I think you lost somewhere what has happened in swtor the last few months, patch 1.3 was released without any pve content and till semptember there wont be any new pve content, tha last few months are focused half on pvp (rated warzones) and half on transfers. I am sorry but i have been completely allienated by the game the last few months due to the pvp focus, if you cant see it it means that you really expect a lot more from developers that this far havent given you anything substantial. The new hot thing in the qq threads is guild wars 2, there is no law against playing multiple online games. Also due to the difference in the purchase model this 2 games are practicly different markets, in other words its like saying 'hi bioware the new total war will have a multiplayer mode so unless you fix the loading screens on planet i am gonna go play there'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangarrage Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 They are in fact different markets you are absolutely correct on that. However people can't see that. People see swtor as an mmo with pve and pvp. Alot of subs are pvp people. PvP for alot of people is horrid in this game, as it is a secondary concern from BW (which they themselves admitted) and pvp players will go to gw2 to pvp and will not even look again at swtor because they want to pvp not get a new companion and gain 5 more levels You are not only going to see alot of pvp players leave but you will also see alot of pvp guilds leave. There's just too much they offer a pvp player. And to the person who said warriors and necros lol at necros. It is probably going to be the 2nd least class played slightly ahead of engineer Last beta we saw 2 button warriors and unkillable elementalists but thats still beta Its one thing to have classes crazy in a prereleased state. It is another thing to purposely make classes out of balance, know they are out of balance, just leave them the way they are for months, and just ignore the majority of the community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MbaxterBeau Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 No doubt it will have hardcore PvPers. But i highly doubt the game has sustainability in that regard. It currently lacks many of the systems hardcore PvPers want, ie arena, rating/ranking systems. Unless they add some of these things in soon after launch. The tournament system is nice but it lacks the depth of ranking or rating system. At this point the game is over hyped for no reason other than the fact fanboys love to hype up every new MMO release and then quit shortly after. It is pretty foolish for anyone to say with certainty that it is the best MMO where PVP is concerned or otherwise that they will be playing the game in the long term. No one has played the game consistently enough and long enough to make that determination. You dont know how much you like a game until you know how it stands up to repeated play. Every new game is fun for a while simply because its new and exciting. Time and time again the same people have hyped up a new MMO as the greatest thing and made claims of quitting their current MMO and turned around a month later saying the game is a dissapointment. Point being its far too early to tell. Until you have played GW2 for 6months+ and tell me that its still the best MMO and its PvP is the best, you're just a thoughless fanboy making a poorly reasoned and foolish claim. With hacks and bots going on in rated WZ in this game why would anyone care what rank someone has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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