Its time to nerf Vanguards and Powertechs

[Twor]

Yes, because pyro/assault consistently doing hundred of thousands of more damage than everyone else is supposed to be normal because Bioware intended for this class to make everyone feel like a pro. Sure.

 

I like the facts you stated. Presented with well thought arguments. I guess you are one of those who was hit for 30k in 9 seconds by a solo pyro as well than. Its not hundred of thousands, we do more damage than the complete enemy team combined.

[Dissentus]

I like the facts you stated. Presented with well thought arguments. I guess you are one of those who was hit for 30k in 9 seconds by a solo pyro as well than. Its not hundred of thousands, we do more damage than the complete enemy team combined.

 

I don't really care if they adjust them one way or the other, I always adapt to things, but when I play hundreds and hundreds of warzones and see that class doing that much damage consistently, I realize that something may be up. I don't need to bring proof. It happens every single day.

[dcgregorya]

My Vanguard AS does far more dmg then my GS or Sent.

 

Sad part it's so easy to play. There are literally like five abilities you use. I don't like playing it because it's rather boring tbh. Tactics on the other hand is a blast!

 

You're playing your other two toons poorly.

[kcol]

Pyro Powertechs need a HUGE buff so this amount of QQ is warranted. Railshot should hit for atleast 10k damage and knock the player on the other side of the screen out for a minimum of 30 min.

[TheronFett]

Pyro Powertechs need a HUGE buff so this amount of QQ is warranted. Railshot should hit for atleast 10k damage and knock the player on the other side of the screen out for a minimum of 30 min.

 

What are you talking about? It already applies a debuff that automatically creates a whine thread on the forums.

[unixbomber]

http://alturl.com/kq6ko

[Zorcha]

a level 12 Powertech just top dps'd a huttball with almost 300k

explain that one.

i think the problem lies with combustible cylinder dot proc doing WAY too much, and the armor pen 60% of railshot should only be 30% like mercs

Edited June 28, 2012 by Zorcha

[Winkywinky]

Tactics with ION Pulse (for guard) is better for rated then Assault spec....better survivability and just alittle less burst ...longer setup time but i can still do 5k with Pulse cannon unlike HIB now...

 

 

i mean really if you see a Assault/Pyro in a rated just kill him first...lol no amount of healing is going to help and if they drop guard from a healer then ping pong between them and they will screw up..

[Kayse]

Lol some powertechs on my server are 3 hitting fully geared 50's in pvp atm.. 6k 6k 6k's none stop. They are working as intended Besides i just enjoyed a game of 6/8 powertechs in lowbies of people rolling FOTM because of it. Can't get away from them but they are working as intended ofc. Just a class that needs 3 button rotation to out dps everyone with the highest burst in the game. Edited June 28, 2012 by Kayse

[jubjubjubjub]

See I always see NERFED PYROTECHIES threads and sigh because everyone on Republic is terrible at PvP (well not everyone but you get what I mean). People should start learning classes and how to combat them. I have one of each class (not all fifty but I can look at their trees) and I made ways to combat each one, regardless of which class I am playing (except for when a scoundrel attacks my merc. Then I just accept my fate.) An easy solution (on a gunslinger) to combat pyros is this:

Cover pulse, leg shot, charged burst (if you have the instant activation after cover pulse, do 2), charged burst, aimed shot, leg shot, charged burst, trickshot, quickdraw, charged burst, target is dead.

It's all about keeping Pyros away from you. Without flameburst and rocket punch their dps is mediocre at best.

 

My last point is that you hardly ever see vanguards at the top of DPS meter for PvE raids. Want to know why? A Pyro cannot sustain massive amounts of damage over time. I blow all of my ammo within 10 seconds of a fight. It's entirely burst and nothing else. If you eliminate the burst (by making sure they stay 10 meters away) they can't hurt you.

 

I have confidence that bioware will not nerf Pyros/Vanguards because they did not nerf sentinels and marauders even after QQ on the forums. Most of the people who post on the forums misrepresent the community because they have no idea what they are doing in PvP.

[Gidoru]

The reason a PT/Vanguard is desirable to a team is the burst, take that away, and you are left with nothing.

1. Nerfing PTs does not mean they will have no burst, simply less.

2. If Powertechs have the most highest burst in the game and without burst they have nothing, i guess every other class in the game must have nothing too because they certainly dont have anywhere near a PTS burst.

When under coordinated focus fire we drop like a fly, and don't have oh sh** abilities like the marauder.

Too bad you can say this about every class in the game.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Gidoru

[UGLYMRJ]

Seriously, its time to bring this class into line. They are just ridiculous dps and survivability, pulling 400k in sub 50 wz's and 700k upwards geared in an average game at level 50 pvp. Every man and their dogs are rolling them and the place is swarming with them everywhere you look.

 

Please balance this class. QQ over.

 

I actually pulled 675k in sub 50 with my pyro... and???

 

I'll prob do something similar with the next class that I roll because I do my homework and study my characters strengths and weaknesses until I know them like the back of my hand. Even the front of my hand cuz I'm actually more familiar with that side anyways.

 

Point is... educate yourself.

 

Learn not only your class but the other classes as well if you want to excel in this game. If you were to play a pyro or marauder right now I would be surprised if you didn't do bottom tier stats.

[ShiroRX]

1. The difference between a good pyro/assault and a bad one is an entire cosmos.

 

2. snipers/slingers will straight up out damage us every single time w/ equal gear and skill.

 

3. were extremely easy to kill, and the most beneficial to kill first in a dps train.

 

 

Combat/Carnage spec sent/maras are no slouch with the burst either these days when they put master strike down. That last hit is reliably much higher damage than rail shot/hi-bolt these days. Obviously less often, but its a question of burst.

Edited June 28, 2012 by ShiroRX

[ShiroRX]

Lol some powertechs on my server are 3 hitting fully geared 50's in pvp atm.. 6k 6k 6k's none stop. They are working as intended Besides i just enjoyed a game of 6/8 powertechs in lowbies of people rolling FOTM because of it. Can't get away from them but they are working as intended ofc. Just a class that needs 3 button rotation to out dps everyone with the highest burst in the game.

 

No Powertech is hitting anyone fully geared for 6k even once anymore, let alone in succession. It was close to impossible to do it vs target with 1k+ expertise prior to 1.3, now its straight up impossible. Highest hit ive seen since patch was against badly geared player from my Infil Shadow friend for almost 6900, but they're even more focused glass cannon than we'll ever be.

 

5400-5500 is the HIGHEST you will see w/ expertise pick-up vs unshielded, unguarded sorc/sage with not great expertise (some, not 1200-1300+). I'm basically in perfect gear for my class and 5400-ish under those conditions is the highest ive seen since patch.

Edited June 28, 2012 by ShiroRX

[Humankeg]

Heavy Armor

Mitigation Cooldown

Self Heal cooldown

AOE + Single Taunts

25% crit boost cooldown

Pull enemy into fires/to your rocket punch

90% armor penetration if specced it, definitely 60% that everyone takes

 

Basically its incendary missile from range to burn, Rail Shot 6k, unload, pull to you, rocket punch 4k, Rail Shot 6k. Dead

 

Repeat.

 

Yes this needs to be fixed. When you come across the teams of 2 heals 4 pyros 2 sents, you will be back here.

 

Please do not go over the "abilities" of VG's and PT's in such a manner. Regardless of these defense cool downs you mention, PT/VG are still incredibly squishy and lack the utility most other classes bring.

 

The only thing a PT/VG has is out standing damage. They have bad utility, and bad survivability.

[Siorac]

Rage is not hard to get for any Warrior class, period. Even at only 6 Rage, Enraged Defense outclasses Kolto Overload and it's on a 3 min cd. But yes, I was speaking of the Vengeance version that has damage reduction on it. Enraged Defense coupled w/ Endure Pain is pretty effing sweet, btw. Especially if you have medpacs. But you already knew all that.

 

The question I was answering doesn't take into account whose abilities. It simply said to name some better defensive cds, and I did that. It also explicity states not to take into account Marauder / Sentinel abilities, which are arguably the best defensive cds in the game and belong to a pure DPS. Not really sure why these abilities are being discounted.

 

Rage Juggs are the ones that have put up the highest WZ scoreboard damage screenshots, which a lot of people seem to be erroneously basing their opinion on.

 

Honestly, I don't really think that there's a problem with Vanguards/Powertechs. I just wanted everyone to feel sorry for me.

 

That, and I hate Sentinels/Marauders.

[ShiroRX]

Honestly, I don't really think that there's a problem with Vanguards/Powertechs. I just wanted everyone to feel sorry for me.

 

That, and I hate Sentinels/Marauders.

 

In the current meta, I'd take a good slam spec jugg/guard who knows how to switch guard than a Sent/Mara. Their real strength is that they have the speed buff, not necessarily their battle contributions.

[Varicite]

In the current meta, I'd take a good slam spec jugg/guard who knows how to switch guard than a Sent/Mara. Their real strength is that they have the speed buff, not necessarily their battle contributions.

 

Guard / Taunts in the actual metagame are extremely important, to the detriment of pures like Mara / Sent. I can see your point.

[Siorac]

In the current meta, I'd take a good slam spec jugg/guard who knows how to switch guard than a Sent/Mara. Their real strength is that they have the speed buff, not necessarily their battle contributions.

 

Well I hate the gimmicky Focus spec, it's fundamentally not fun to play for me. And that's real squishy, especially if you do it "right" and play in Shii-cho (6% increase in Force damage).

 

Killing stuff quickly is still a great thing in three out of the four warzones so Sentinels/Marauders/Powertechs/Vanguards will always be very, very useful.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Siorac

[ShiroRX]

Well I hate the gimmicky Focus spec, it's fundamentally not fun to play for me. And that's real squishy, especially if you do it "right" and play in Shii-cho (6% increase in Force damage).

 

Killing stuff quickly is still a great thing in three out of the four warzones so Sentinels/Marauders/Powertechs/Vanguards will always be very, very useful.

 

The pressure on enemy trains by keeping guard up on a target by sitting in Soresu is worth the force dmg loss. There is basically no downside to just always sitting Soresu in a team as Jugg/Guard, which im shocked hasn't been nerfed. Either the dmg stacks or the auto-crit need to be reliant on Shii-Cho, exactly how they nerfed PT/VG to require Plasma to proc free rail/hi-bolt since they were all sitting in Ion.

 

edit: Actually, there is a downside. It makes that slam spec jugg/guard very high in the kill list for enemy dps. My ranked team actually ran into this question yesterday. Even in Soresu, rage/veng juggs are not gonna deal well with being focused bursted, providing guard and constant taunts just makes them a more attractive target to gib. Same reason vanguard is a good class to kill first (besides the guard part for jugg).

Edited June 28, 2012 by ShiroRX

[Siorac]

Playing Vigilance in Soresu is like having your teeth pulled. It's an extremely unpleasant experience as you're constantly Focus starved and therefore your damage is totally gimped. You're basically a tank without survivability, it's pointless. (and I hate Guarding in PvP, there's a good reason I don't play a tank there which I actually enjoy in PvE).

 

Focus/Rage spec is still viable in Soresu, true. They might wanna change that but a Focus Guardian still can't really post the same numbers as a Pyro Powertech (assuming equal gear and skill) so that extra utility is not bad.

[DarthOvertone]

a level 12 Powertech just top dps'd a huttball with almost 300k

explain that one.

 

You failed to control Mid?

[Twor]

a level 12 Powertech just top dps'd a huttball with almost 300k

explain that one.

i think the problem lies with combustible cylinder dot proc doing WAY too much, and the armor pen 60% of railshot should only be 30% like mercs

 

Its called bolster. As you should know a level 12 doesn't even have anything to burst with. No CD reset, no TD, no IM, just the application of the dot through ip.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Twor

[Varicite]

Focus/Rage spec is still viable in Soresu, true. They might wanna change that but a Focus Guardian still can't really post the same numbers as a Pyro Powertech (assuming equal gear and skill) so that extra utility is not bad.

 

I'm not sure where you're getting your info. Rage Juggs are the ones who were the FIRST to put up million+ damage screenshots.

 

They were doing it before PTs were ever even on peoples' radar.

 

Its called bolster. As you should know a level 12 doesn't even have anything to burst with. No CD reset, no TD, no IM, just the application of the dot through ip.

 

I did it w/ Missile Blast spam at lv10, lol. You're absolutely right, of course, and I wish people would stop taking their lowbie experiences as some form of valid metric. It's not.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Varicite

[Apsen_Layne]

just drop the healing rate in pvp and things will be better