Its time to nerf Vanguards and Powertechs

[Kayse]

Actually having both means my comments carry more weight then yours, so please run along now

 

Actually just means you roll that class because you like it, and the only reason you probably like it is for its OPness.

 

Every sensible person out there who i have spoken to who has a powertech/vangaurd, and is an actual logical person, just laughs at how insane OP their class is and how simple it is to faceroll people. The best thing about these people is they actually are good people and some wont even touch their VG's/Powertechs because of how broken they are they get no fun from destroying everything in mere seconds. The only people who protect it is those who are afraid they'd lose power.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Kayse

[Asmok]

LOL which class is next for the chopping block if they go and gut the pt ?

Would it be oh god no the assassin /shadow ? no I dont think so a tank that can heal ( something that didnt really affect them)wearing dps armor and dps and use stealth?

Ya powertechs are op make all there abilities 1m and be done with it lol.

To the poster qft. And all the other little E babies out there complaining on everything and anything.

[physiology]

Actually just means you roll that class because you like it, and the only reason you probably like it is for its OPness.

 

Every sensible person out there who i have spoken to who has a powertech/vangaurd, and is an actual logical person, just laughs at how insane OP their class is and how simple it is to faceroll people. The best thing about these people is they actually are good people and some wont even touch their VG's/Powertechs because of how broken they are they get no fun from destroying everything in mere seconds. The only people who protect it is those who are afraid they'd lose power.

 

Everyone is reading over the part where I posted about playing Advanced prototype/tactics. I need to just include that in my sig. You're right though, I do like the class, but I like it because Republic Commando was one of my favorite video games and body type 3 in the 40 pvp gear looks just like the characters from that game.

 

But I digress, my main issue is that everyone is throwing around false information about our defensive capabilities and suggesting changes that would break the class, such as adding a cd to flame burst or a 10m range to rail shot. I really don't care what happens to pyro as long as the nerf stays within the spec and does not damage pyro mercs, who are already having a hard enough time as it is.

 

I'm not trying to argue that they don't have insane burst, or that their rotation is complex and requires a lot of micromanagement.

Edited June 30, 2012 by physiology

[CivicTiger]

Powertechs aren't even OP anymore now that on-use relics got nerfed.. what are you lot even talking about?

[Alizio]

wait til you meet my rated team, we put two full wh vg assault guarded by 2 full wh guardians. With 2 other non guarded vg's.

 

 

gl. healers in the back, try getting to them before u get nuked.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Alizio

[Kayse]

Everyone is reading over the part where I posted about playing Advanced prototype/tactics. I need to just include that in my sig. You're right though, I do like the class, but I like it because Republic Commando was one of my favorite video games and body type 3 in the 40 pvp gear looks just like the characters from that game.

 

But I digress, my main issue is that everyone is throwing around false information about our defensive capabilities and suggesting changes that would break the class, such as adding a cd to flame burst or a 10m range to rail shot. I really don't care what happens to pyro as long as the nerf stays within the spec and does not damage pyro mercs, who are already having a hard enough time as it is.

 

I'm not trying to argue that they don't have insane burst, or that their rotation is complex and requires a lot of micromanagement.

 

Thats understandable and since you only have those two its obvious you're not just some FOTM reroller trying to be OP and you geniunelly like the class, which is good.

 

But no one can deny that PPT is far too OP. The only people who protect it like i said are those desperate for the easy facerolls which require no skill and want to try to look like a good player. Everyone who i have seen who i know ingame who defend them are all badies or powertechs themselves, powertechs who are 3 hitting sages and 5 hitting anyone else if not 4. They just want to protect their image of actually being strong or skilled and its kinda sad but its w.e.. They will be fixed someday and someday soon i hope, and, like many operatives at the operative nerf, those peopel will probably qq and quit when they can no longer have so many "I Win" buttons. I really just hope that day is soon.

 

I can see the difficulty in retweaking it and it hurting Mercenaries, which they do not need for sure, but for pyro powertechs something needs to be done.

[LordExozone]

Is this topic still going on.

 

Pyrotech PT's are not immortal gods that lay waste to entire warzones by themselves. With equal gear and roughly equal skill, a Marauder/Sentinel & Assassin/Shadow will beat them with relative ease. As will Rage Juggernauts/Focus Guardians.

 

Only a few sub-classes are relative easy kills, most notably Mercenaries and healing specced sorcerers.

 

And people making comments about the class not needing any skill have no idea what they are talking about. Pretty much all the DPS classes in SWTOR are extremely easy to play after you get a little practice. I found my Juggernaut just as simple to play as my Powertech. Only the various tank specs are somewhat more challenging, with a more complex rotation and more defensive cooldowns to monitor but hardly anyone plays those in PVP.

 

The nature of the powertech/vanguard mechanic means they do inflated damage in PUG warzones. The reason for this is that they (can) do most of their damage in the first 20 seconds of a fight. But if they do, this is followed by a "cooldown period" where they do greatly reduced damage. This means that them dying relatively fast in warzones does not really diminish their total damage output as it would with other classes.

 

So as an theoretical example, say a Powertech can do 15.000 damage in the first 20 seconds, then 5000 in the next 20 seconds.

A sorcerer by comparison can do 11.000 damage in the first 20 seconds, then 11.000 in the next 20 seconds.

 

So as this example illustrates,this means that in random PUG warzones where everyone dies a few seconds after entering a fight, Powertechs/Vanguards still end up doing most of their damage potential (since they can unload most of it at the beginning of a fight) while other classes do not. This results in Powertechs/Vanguards ending with much higher damage done than other classes even though they may have died more often. This is the nature of their class design, and to change it would require an entire overhaul of the class.

 

But in balanced warzones with a fair amount of healers where people do not die quite so often, you see damage values much closer to each other. Powertechs/Vanguards still tend to be amongst the top damage dealers in those cases, but its by no means guaranteed and (pyro) Powertechs/Vanguards sacrifice a lot in survivability compared to other classes with no escape abilities whatsoever.

[Bahamzero]

Nothing can do more dmg then a PT, no class comes even close. I recently rolled 1 myself and at lvl 38 the dps feels like im playing my 50 sin

 

Im not worried tho because they will get nerfed

Edited July 1, 2012 by Bahamzero

[AnAcuteAngle]

It seems as if Snipers, Marauders, AND Assassins can all pull our same DPS, only worth more utility..

 

I just played against an Assassin and got destroyed. You know why?

 

On top of the fact they can compete with me DPS wise, they have 4x the CC that I do. It's absolutely ridiculous.

 

So stop complaining about Pyro's. Give us a decent spec AND maybe we'll consider.

 

Things these things through, don't be ignorant.

[Vaipyr]

Nothing can do more dmg then a PT, no class comes even close. I recently rolled 1 myself and at lvl 38 the dps feels like im playing my 50 sin

 

Im not worried tho because they will get nerfed

 

Conjecture, hyperbole and frankly all around BS.

 

It seems as if Snipers, Marauders, AND Assassins can all pull our same DPS, only worth more utility..

 

I just played against an Assassin and got destroyed. You know why?

 

On top of the fact they can compete with me DPS wise, they have 4x the CC that I do. It's absolutely ridiculous.

 

So stop complaining about Pyro's. Give us a decent spec AND maybe we'll consider.

 

Things these things through, don't be ignorant.

 

True, but had to point out that you mean "Think these things through"

Edited July 1, 2012 by Vaipyr

[nDjiin]

The recent loss of exp / rakata adrenals and clicky pvp relics has hit powertechs hard - the rely on their surge ability to take down an enemy fast otherwise they are in a of of trouble (assuming you know how to kite and spread out their DPS properly).

 

And tbh even before 1.3 a player who has bothered to actually read up on the class would know how to take down a PT. I see it happen everyday with guys on my rWZ team. The difference is they are not lazy and like a challenge.

 

You remove the classes one real 'offensive trick' (the surge) and you will basically be making the class unused in pvp and pve (they are almost never used as a dps class in raids, because they need to be insanely over geared and played by someone who can think ahead and place himself in a position where he doesn't take a HUGE DPS drop every time the boss moves). They have no mobility and very little utility - their ability to taunt is only used an absolute last resort in 99% of PvE situations. Even then its with the knowledge you are risking a quick a death for the benefit of the team.

 

I am sorry to go on about PvE in a pvp forum but I just needed to point out that you cant just nerf a class because a few people are too bone idle to learn how to counter it. If you do, you will add another class to the 'do not invite to raids list'.

 

Oh and they nerfed the ST tree to the point where the 'Iron Fist' DPS build is no longer viable.

 

 

 

*There you go I just told you how to counter even the best PT's.

Edited July 1, 2012 by nDjiin

[BurnsTwoThree]

It seems as if Snipers, Marauders, AND Assassins can all pull our same DPS, only worth more utility..

 

don't be ignorant.

 

These two things in the same post make me laugh.

 

Marauders have equal if not more DPS than you, but you cannot throw Snipers and Assassin into the equation.

 

Come on, at least pretend you know what you are talking about before you try and defend yourself.

[dirtyboxer]

These two things in the same post make me laugh.

 

Marauders have equal if not more DPS than you, but you cannot throw Snipers and Assassin into the equation.

 

Come on, at least pretend you know what you are talking about before you try and defend yourself.

 

Snipers are on par, Assassins may be lacking a tad in DPS but make up for it with survivability and stealth.

 

Seems like you dont know what your talking about imo.

[Lovia]

so heals got nerfed into the ground. can we nerf the most obvious overpowered class in the game??

 

I have played 2 warzone recently with my vanguard in operation tank spec (didnt wanna respec after raids) with the vanguard dps pvp gear set 8 bm/6 wh gear the warhero pieces augmented. As it is obvious in the setup my dps capability shouldnt be anywere near the average joes full or near full bm set, correct?

 

In the first voidstar of the example i did 330k damage and 110k protection, i was first in my teams damage done and the only person in the group with more than 5k protection. My team lost.

 

In the second voidstar, with 4 sentinels in my team i did 310k damage and 70k protection. I was the first on damage done, no sentinel broke the 300k mark and there was a guardian with 95k protection but he did 70k dmg. My team lost.

 

So this to warzones prove to me that 90% of the players are completely unable to play this game more so understand whats obvious and whats not and i am 100% positive that they can make no balance suggestions.

 

Everybody who posts a nerf thread should get a 3 day period ban from posting on the forums.

[TomasSmith]

Well as long as the Tactics tree for vanguards doesn't get nerfed (as in my opinion its pretty balanced but then that is only my opinion) then I will be happy. I can understand why people think assault spec vanguards are OP as they have ridiculously high burst dps within the first 6-10 seconds of a fight but don't forget we don't have great defensive CD's like the sent or shadow so after we put out our high dps, our sustained damage is non existant and we can be taken down. Plus we only have harpoon (def my fav move in the entire game) and a movement penalty when plasma cell is on an enemy for just 2 seconds so we are lacking in closers as most of our abilities have to be used within 4-10 yards excluding assault plastique and HIB but also dont forget we need stockstrike (4m range) and ion pulse (10m range) to get the proc for our HIB which is our hardest hitting move. A well trained sorc or sniper could easily kite us plus don't forget sentinels.... if 1 on 1 with a sentinel, vanguards HAVE to do the perfect rotation if they are able to take them down as sents have such gd dps AND defensive cooldowns. I used to be assault spec but went tactics for the mobility and a bigger challenge as assault is reasonably easy to play with (again just my opinion). Perhaps a small nerf on the burst moves not a big one but then give vanguards a higher dot damage to sustain their dps then they would be balanced. Just a thought but i'm not claiming that i'm an expert or anything it's just an idea.

[NoTomorrow]

I dont care what bw does to pt, what i do care however, is that we have a few classes that can reliably shutdown healers. And currently pyro is one of them. Edited July 1, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[BurningCourage]

whatever like any dps killing healers with no effort is so not balanced like a vanguard doesnt even have to try at all to kill healers they just freaking faceroll blow stuns early and kill the healer they dont even have to interrupt if they pyro/assault that is. No dps should be able to kill healers one on one without interrupting or being smart with there stuns. And its not just powertechs have high burst and good sustained they have good utility too. Taunt ranged stun group stun grip and having some ranged attacks that are 30m able to do some sorta dmg and within 10m can do almost there full dmg and within 4m they can do anything so they can go dot rail shot rocket punch rail shot then do some flame burst and free attacks flame burst proc snare burn which can be dispelled by techs users but cant be dispelled as fast as its reapplied go out of 10m and rail shot again oh they are getting away grip stun rocket punch rail shot flame burst so they have brun snare. And not being able to kite a powertech is just dumb everyone knows they are overpowerd just because alot of pyro's are morons doesnt make the class any less overpowerd its the class that i am saying is overpowerd not the player base. Oh and not to mention you cant our range OR interrupt anything to stop some of their dmg like any other class marauders on you slow kite him root him. Merc on you? interuppt tracer or fusion blast or w/e to stop some of thier dmg. sniper/sage on you? los there casts. That one of the biggest thing about pyro's you cant stop their dmg with anything like interrupts or kiteing or los'ing. Edited July 30, 2012 by BurningCourage

[Percee]

whatever like any dps killing healers with no effort is so not balanced like a vanguard doesnt even have to try at all to kill healers they just freaking faceroll blow stuns early and kill the healer they dont even have to interrupt if they pyro/assault that is. No dps should be able to kill healers one on one without interrupting or being smart with there stuns. And its not just powertechs have high burst and good sustained they have good utility too. Taunt ranged stun group stun grip and having some ranged attacks that are 30m able to do some sorta dmg and within 10m can do almost there full dmg and within 4m they can do anything so they can go dot rail shot rocket punch rail shot then do some flame burst and free attacks flame burst proc snare burn which can be dispelled by techs users but cant be dispelled as fast as its reapplied go out of 10m and rail shot again oh they are getting away grip stun rocket punch rail shot flame burst so they have brun snare. And not being able to kite a powertech is just dumb everyone knows they are overpowerd just because alot of pyro's are morons doesnt make the class any less overpowerd its the class that i am saying is overpowerd not the player base. Oh and not to mention you cant our range OR interrupt anything to stop some of their dmg like any other class marauders on you slow kite him root him. Merc on you? interuppt tracer or fusion blast or w/e to stop some of thier dmg. sniper/sage on you? los there casts. That one of the biggest thing about pyro's you cant stop their dmg with anything like interrupts or kiteing or los'ing.

Stop *********** necroing threads.

[JGames]

Stop the nerfs. If something is really OP, bring the other's up some. Just my thoughts.

[Echoo]

Stop the nerfs. If something is really OP, bring the other's up some. Just my thoughts.

 

Just cause people got bored of not being heard by bioware doesn't make the fact that powertechs are op not true.

[Veeius]

It's called Focus/Rage spec; AoE damage extraordinaire. Pyrotech Powertech farms just as much damage by ripping people down one at a time, lol.

 

A rage jug smashes and does 5k damage to 5 people - 25k damage, and doesn't even really put anyone in danger.

 

In the same amount of time, a powertech does 20k damage to 1 person (and kills them).

 

Which is more valuable?

[Never_Hesitate]

Seriously, its time to bring this class into line. They are just ridiculous dps and survivability, pulling 400k in sub 50 wz's and 700k upwards geared in an average game at level 50 pvp. Every man and their dogs are rolling them and the place is swarming with them everywhere you look.

 

Please balance this class. QQ over.

 

Please do not talk like it was the Powertech, who is OP.

A PT is not OP, he is only OP when he uses the Pyrotech skilltree.

[dtebuev]

I value operatives much more than powertechs in rated right now.

 

Care to explain why?

[Caeliux]

Not really; Pyrotech Powertech can put out the most damage overall.

 

So can a madness, annihilation, marksman, rage, so on.

 

My point?

 

Some people can make classes look good, and can make them play well.

 

This is all coming from someone that plays or has played all the classes, its people that make the classes good.

 

Saying Pyro can produce damage overall (in all dps in this game) is actually just a opinion and not a factual statement there Vimm.

[Tankqull]

Care to explain why?

ops can heal especially extremly well when heal specced => PT/vang can´t

jokes aside i guess he is referring to stun assisting wich is a sure kill and quite annoying when beeing the attacked one due to being unable to escape that death on your own. but every working assist train just chew through your HP like a hot knife through butter anyway, as TTK is way to low at the moment without any chance to handle it and stay alive.