Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Baptes]

Bleh. If I was given as a fem SW the only option to romance Jaesa...I'd choose celibate. Ick. Vette all the way

 

Similarly with fem SI Ashara drives me up a wall. "Don't make me go against my teachings" ... I'm a SI, you're a JK... /headdesk. Order of celibate table 2.

 

Fem BH Mako is just too adorable for words.

 

Fem IA...hmm. Kaliyo is insane, but in a fun way. Temple is insane in a not so fun way. Eh I'll go with Kaliyo.

 

Fem Troop with Dorne could be fun, once I remove the stic...better leave it at that.

 

Fem Smuggler and Risha...possibilities. Never got far enough to see what Akaavi's character is like.

 

Fem JK FOR KIRA, AND FOR PONY!!!!!! (LFG comic reference FTW)

 

Fem JC again haven't gotten high enough to know Nadia's character.

 

And those are just my female choices. Gimme some freaking choices already BW!!!!!!

[Rabenschwinge]

Well, I hope, that by "make sense" Bioware means "isn't Doc", because, that is the only companion I would never ever ever romance ^^ (And it really doesn't make sense. Can you imagine gay Doc? I certainly cannot -.-)

 

I don't think I'd ever have a romance with Khem Val either... or with SCORPIO...

Edited September 29, 2012 by Rabenschwinge

[Eleuril]

I don't think I'd ever have a romance with Khem Val either...

 

No, he's still not over his Dashade-crush on Tulak Hord, so I think you're safe there.

[Chaac]

For a male JK I'd kind of like Scourge as an SGRA. From everything I can recall of his character I've never seen a single sign of him being interested in any women, neither in the Revan novel nor during any conversations unless I'm forgetting something. That's probably more of a personal thing though since my JK is very similar to him, willing to do whatever it takes and they seem compatible. For my smuggler I desperately want Corso, he's got that whole cute "I name my weapons" thing going on, and no one would suit my BH more than Torian, especially since he started offering to cook a nice home made meal for me .

 

As a side note I'm working on something for this thread that I hope to post sometime tomorrow.

[Tatile]

As a side note I'm working on something for this thread that I hope to post sometime tomorrow.

 

Presents! We all love presents

[Captain_Zone]

I brought up Kaliyo because she's the one everyone knows to be openly bi (or pan, if consider persons outside of the gender binary), but what I was trying to say is that because every female companion in-game is a romance option and that Bioware don't want to make every romance option bisexual, does that mean there will be only one or two lesbian romance options.

 

Technically, there are only 9 1/2 female LIs in the game, since Jaesa is only available for DS. Unfortunately, I don't see much choice that BioWare has than to make most, if not all LIs, bisexual. Unless they introduce all new LIs at level 50. That would tick off a LOT of people, me included.

[Palar]

No, he's still not over his Dashade-crush on Tulak Hord, so I think you're safe there.

 

And probably never will be - hey Khem, he locked you in an insanely complicated death-trap vault after freezing you... there's a message there, and it's "he's just not that into you."

[Chaac]

Presents! We all love presents

 

xD I'm afraid it's nothing too amazing, but here it is, didn't take as long as I expected I just wanted to post something up that would help people keep track of what has been said in the past as it can be quite confusing at times trying to remember who said what and when they said it. If there's anything missing or if anyone has any links I haven't provided let me know and I'll edit them in .

 

Edit: I included a couple of things that while not directly related to SGRA's are often used as an argument against them, such as; "EA would be against this sort of thing", "LA would never allow this", "There's no history of homosexuality in Star Wars".

 

 

A Time Line Of Events Pertaining To SGRA's

 

 

February 2000 – EA releases the Sims featuring same-gendered romance.

 

 

July 2003 – Bioware releases Knights of the old Republic which was initially slated to feature a same-gender romance with the companion Juhani. Although much of the Juhani arc was removed it remained possible to enter a romance with the character and to learn part of her personal history and the relationship she had with another Jedi who will later fall to the Darkside should Juhani be killed by the player character.

 

 

August 2008 – Karen Traviss confirms two Mandalorian characters to be a married homosexual couple. Link.

 

 

“Goran Beviin and Medrit Vasur are a gay couple. Homosexual men. Call it what you like, they're in a same-sex marriage.“

 

She further elaborates;

 

“The gay Mandos - like the rest of the Mandalorian cast - are in the series because I think the Star Wars galaxy, with millions of worlds and species, is probably more diverse than just a regular vanilla diet of straight, good-looking, able-bodied white folk with red hair and emerald eyes or whatever. So I decided it was time SW had its first gay characters, because it was dumb for such a rich universe like that to be so narrow and unreal.“

 

October 2008 – George Lucas donates $50,000 to No on 8 ( a campaign in support of gay marriage). Lucasfilm donates the same amount of money to the same campaign. Link.

 

 

April 2009 – Bioware Community Manager Sean Dahlberg censors the use of homosexual labels and states that the terms “do not exist in Star Wars”. The statement is later retracted and the terms are uncensored. Link.

 

 

August 2011 – Bioware's Cory Butler responds to the question of SGRA's being in/out with a hurried no and a quick change of topic. Link.

 

 

September 2011 – Bioware Community Manager Stephen Reid announces that SGRA's will be a post launch feature:

 

“Quote: Originally Posted by*StephenReid

Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options.”

 

This is shortly followed with two posts from Reid explaining why it was decided that SW:TOR should allow same sex romances -

 

“First of all, this is definitely not an audience that consists of a 'couple of people' and we're aware of that. We take this decision very seriously.

 

Second, it's very important to realize that this is just one of many, many content additions that will be going into the game post launch. The vast majority of our content will be of interest to the vast majority of our potential audience.

 

However, one of the amazing things about MMOs is that over time we can get to add things that are exciting and interesting to smaller audiences. Normally, that's not something that's addressed too far ahead of time. In this case, we felt the addition was warranted and should be addressed early.

 

There will be plenty of content for all to play and enjoy.”

 

And -

 

“We can't guarantee that a character you play at launch would have romance options 'unlocked' for an existing companion. It's something that will be taken into consideration when making design decisions. Not a promise it'll happen, but we'll take that feedback and relay it through to design.

 

We fully intend to do justice to the story in our storylines.*

 

As you may have heard, we take story very seriously - this included.

 

Lastly for those of you who seem concerned that you will be 'tricked' into any romance arc in the game - all romance choices are clearly marked. You will be aware you're making those choices as you make them.“

 

 

January 2012 – Activists target SW:TOR's decision to include Same-Gendered Romance. Link.

 

 

March 2012 – Daniel Erickson elaborates on the inclusion of Same Sex Romances. (The specific mention of SGRA's begins at the twenty one minute mark.)

 

 

“Q: Any update on same gender romance?

Daniel Erickson: It is coming and it is coming with story updates. It is something that depends on the writers and we want to do right, and writers have a long lead time. We did not want to just change all the dialogue for the other gender. That is not writing, that is not story telling. This was cut originally because of budget and time issues. We have designs, we know what romance options we want to put in for this. It is coming when full story comes, and full story is coming this year. We are still on track. “

 

 

August 2012 – Gabe Amatangelo Lead PvP Designer announces that he belives Same-Gendered Romance to be coming with Makeb. Link.

 

 

“Um, the same-sex relationship stuff, there is – I think it is in Makeb? In the new update, I think there is some stuff in there. But I don't know exactly. I'm not, not a writer. That's sort of the aspect that I am farthest from. But it really comes down to just getting it on the schedule and getting that content into the game”

 

 

August 2012 – In response to an email from a former regular poster the ESRB confirms that same sex romances do not affect the rating that a game receives.

 

“Thank you for contacting the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB). We sincerely appreciate your taking the time to write.

 

The ESRB is a non-profit, self-regulatory body that assigns age and content ratings for video games and mobile apps so parents can make informed choices as to which are suitable for their children and family. As part of its self-regulatory role for the video game industry, the ESRB also enforces industry-adopted advertising guidelines and helps ensure responsible online privacy practices among companies participating in its Privacy Online program.

 

We understand that sexual themes have the potential to be of concern to consumers, which is why all such content must be disclosed during the rating process. In specific regard to your question, ESRB’s ratings criteria do not distinguish between heterosexual and same-sex content when it comes to addressing sexuality in games.

 

We hope this information is helpful, and thank you again for writing.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Entertainment Software Rating Board “

 

 

September 2012 – Hal Hood Lead Writer supports Gabe Amatangelo's announcement by posting two updates on Twitter. The first update is later deleted.

 

“(1 of 2) To all the folks who have been expressing interest in SGRs, here is the official word from Gabe Amatangelo:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tt49...tu.be&t=10m49s…“

 

“(2 of 2) When I can share more information, I will let you know. Writing romances is one of my favorite things about working on SWTOR. :-) “

 

 

Thanks for reading!

 

 

Edited September 30, 2012 by Chaac

[Ayslinn_Iduviel]

Awesome work, thank you!

 

Keep fighting the good fight

[Uluain]

For my smuggler I desperately want Corso, he's got that whole cute "I name my weapons" thing going on.

 

Now that is fodder for a certain amount of speculation. But probably not appropriate to these boards.

 

Corso is pretty much the only possible option for male Smuggler, so I am hopeful. It is my Smuggler who is most prone of any of my characters to pursue these sorts of attachments, and I already know he bats for the home team.

[Uluain]

xD I'm afraid it's nothing too amazing, but here it is, didn't take as long as I expected I just wanted to post something up that would help people keep track of what has been said in the past as it can be quite confusing at times trying to remember who said what and when they said it. If there's anything missing or if anyone has any links I haven't provided let me know and I'll edit them in .

 

This is excellent. I can, however offer a few small corrections.

October 2008 – George Lucas donates $50,000 to No on 8 ( a campaign in support of gay marriage). LucasArts donates the same amount of money to the same campaign. Link.

The corporate donation was from Lucasfilm, not LucasArts, but the rest is quite correct.

 

 

August 2012 – Gabe Amatangelo Lead PvP Designer announces that he belives Same-Gendered Romance to be coming with Makeb. Link has since been removed.

 

"Um, the same-sex relationship stuff, there is – I think it is in Makeb? In the new update, I think there is some stuff in there. But I don't know exactly. I'm not, not a writer. That's sort of the aspect that I am farthest from. But it really comes down to just getting it on the schedule and getting that content into the game”

It seems that I simply was having trouble connecting to the site. The link is still good.

 

 

I made my transcription from the video. It is odd that we do not see how the interview was brought around to the topic from Ancient Hypergates – there is an edit jump there – nor why Gabe chose to address this. But the viewers can make of it what they will.

 

August 2012 – In response to an email from a poster in the Same Gender Relationships Clarifications? Thread the ESRB confirms that same sex romances do not affect the rating that a game receives.

To clarify a little, the enquiry was made by a former regular in this thread, after withdrawing from active participation here (as many have from low morale since January). The response was first posted to a different SWTOR related forum, and copied to here for relevance.

 

Thanks for reading!

 

Thanks for posting!

[Biancaneri]

Fem BH Mako is just too adorable for words.

 

 

When you report to your mentor on Dromund Kaas for the Great Hunt as a fem BH, I swear to God the only natural reaction to some of the conversations you have with her is "She totally thinks we're gay and she's VERY HAPPY about it.

 

[Kioma]

Now that is fodder for a certain amount of speculation. But probably not appropriate to these boards.

 

<infantile giggle>

 

Erm, yes. See, people say a lot of stuff about who 'makes sense' as gay or bi, but I don't really think it 'makes sense' to start labelling these characters as 'making sense' or not. As has been mentioned many times on this thread and its predecessors, you really just can't tell who's going to jump in bed with the same gender. Very few people would spot me as bi, for example - most assume I'm straight or gay. There doesn't seem to be a lot of middle ground, though I'm not entirely sure why.

 

"Oh, but Corso has a 'be nice to girls' thing going on!" Yes, so will anyone who's been brought up to believe that you don't hit girls. And clearly he digs the ladies - but that doesn't mean to say he doesn't dig the gentlemen as well. Me, personally, I can very easily see him as being bi.

 

Similarly, I can easily see Doc as being bi. I can even see him making light fun of the JK who expresses surprise over it. I mean, he's an inveterate womanising sleaze - and yet he's an absolute medical genius. That could be seen as surprising enough, couldn't it? Sure, there's maybe a bit much overlap between Doc and Cedrax in that regard, but I have this scene in my head of Doc tilting his head at a confused male JK and saying, 'Hey, there's more to ol' Doc than meets the eye.'

 

Can I see Kira as bi? Easily. More importantly, though, I can see Kira doing things the way Kira wants, and damn if other people don't like that, because that's what Kira is. Impulsive, strong-willed and stubborn to a fault. Very cynical and yet very idealistic. But mostly she's Kira, and she's going to keep being Kira, and if you don't like the Kira that Kira is then Kira doesn't give a damn.

 

I just had a thought: are there any natively (ie. without companion customisation) black female love interests? I know there's at least one natively black male LI (Iresso), but I can't think of any females.

[HellbirdIV]

I just had a thought: are there any natively (ie. without companion customisation) black female love interests? I know there's at least one natively black male LI (Iresso), but I can't think of any females.

 

Ensign Temple for Imperial Agent.

 

She was redesigned from being white with blonde hair (shown in some beta images floating around the web) to being brown-skinned with black hair. That might be why it feels like her voice doesn't suit her appearance (and why I got the blonde customization for her).

[Kioma]

Ensign Temple for Imperial Agent.

 

She was redesigned from being white with blonde hair (shown in some beta images floating around the web) to being brown-skinned with black hair. That might be why it feels like her voice doesn't suit her appearance (and why I got the blonde customization for her).

 

Ah, my IA hasn't claimed her yet. Hmmm. Curiosity == sated!

[Baptes]

Now that is fodder for a certain amount of speculation. But probably not appropriate to these boards.

 

Corso is pretty much the only possible option for male Smuggler, so I am hopeful. It is my Smuggler who is most prone of any of my characters to pursue these sorts of attachments, and I already know he bats for the home team.

Yeah, Corso would be my choice as well. We get along great. The only difference between us is that I don't name my guns.

[Rabenschwinge]

Technically, there are only 9 1/2 female LIs in the game, since Jaesa is only available for DS. Unfortunately, I don't see much choice that BioWare has than to make most, if not all LIs, bisexual. Unless they introduce all new LIs at level 50. That would tick off a LOT of people, me included.

 

You mean - along with a level extension? If not the upcoming one then may the extension from 55 to 60 or?

[Rabenschwinge]

I just had a thought: are there any natively (ie. without companion customisation) black female love interests? I know there's at least one natively black male LI (Iresso), but I can't think of any females.

 

Hmmm... depends on what you understand in "black". If you count in aliens that are not stricly black in skin color, but have features that you would normally associate with a black human (just as Oola in Star Wars, who is green, but obviously still a black woman) there may be more. I don't know, I know only all companions of Jedi Consular and Imperial Agent, and all but one of Jedi Knight. (Just completed chapter II, so I guess there's one more)

 

In character creation, if you create a female twi'lek with body type 2, I have to choose "black" features to make it look "round". Meaning you gotta stick with heads 5-8 regardless of which skin color you choose. Though that's a matter of taste, of course, so it wouldn't surprise me if a lot people disagreed.

 

I don't recall a distinctly asian looking character, either.

 

I use customizations for most characters I care about, though. Even if I like the default look best, I like to limit the times I run into identical clones across the servers. So I pick one and then stick with it.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Rabenschwinge

[Kioma]

Hmmm... depends on what you understand in "black". If you count in aliens that are not stricly black in skin color, but have features that you would normally associate with a black human (just as Oola in Star Wars, who is green, but obviously still a black woman) there may be more. I don't know, I know only all companions of Jedi Consular and Imperial Agent, and all but one of Jedi Knight. (Just completed chapter II, so I guess there's one more)

 

I meant specifically black human characters, yes.

 

I do hope nobody thinks I'm accusing BW:A of racism, I'm really not. It just occurred to me while I was trying not to type 'Z-snap' after my diatribe on Kira in my earlier post.

 

I don't recall a distinctly asian looking character, either.

 

Mako is Asian-styled. At least I interpret her features thusly. To the point where I did a remake of her in Daz Studio:

 

...which you can view here, if you so choose.

And with a close-up of the face.

 

I'm not entirely happy with it, but oh well.

 

In any case I don't interpret her as being the little kid some people do (which, in my opinion, is mostly influenced by Lacey Chabert, her voice actor). On the small side, sure, and certainly young, but still an adult.

[HellbirdIV]

Mako is Asian-styled. At least I interpret her features thusly.

 

In any case I don't interpret her as being the little kid some people do (which, in my opinion, is mostly influenced by Lacey Chabert, her voice actor). On the small side, sure, and certainly young, but still an adult.

 

Can't she be both?

 

I think the "asian" thing is quite obvious, and she's clearly the youngest of all the companion characters - She looks to be about 16-20ish (not taking into account the fact that she's a *

*) Edited September 30, 2012 by HellbirdIV

[Ayslinn_Iduviel]

I'll tell you who I think would be suitable as SGR option, even if I don't necessary like the possibilities, based on my interpretation of the characters attitude, etc.

 

And of course, watch out for indirect spoilers

 

SITH WARRIOR

 

- Vette: despise what some ppl say about her hostile idea about that (possibly transpired in the 3 way conversation if you romance both her and Jaesa), the Twi'lek culture doesn't have gender distinctions when engaging somebody in marriage; the society on Ryloth is fundamentally matriarchal, so same gender female couples are absolutely commons (as well as male ones).

 

- Jaesa: little transpire of her personal feeling on the LS side of the story about this matter, except on the very last dialoge, and she have no romance options on that; so i guess this will be an obvious companion available for SGR, open to a lot of "content expansion" by story writers.

 

- Malavai Quinn: too completely-insane in love of the Sith Warrior (despise the "incident"), despise a lot ppl say he's a boots licker (and i don't think so, even if i don't like him in the whole); he's just a fanatical imperial lovers, and also admires and attracted by the Sith power-authority.

 

- Pierce: same situation of Jaesa, but i don't see him as a viable SGR material; i don't know why, just an hunch tough

 

SITH INQUISITOR:

 

- Ashara: well, she has not a strong personality and she's also the only female on board.. so i guess that she will do, one way or another;

 

- Talos Drellik: he's a scholar and a curious one, i guess that the he's totally BI just for the "fun" of exploring it XD also, Andronikos feels like an absolutely straight, some conversation you have with him let you understand that he really doesn't like the idea of two males together. Unless you're gonna give Khem Val option... XD

 

IMPERIAL AGENT:

 

- Kaliyo: i know, some ppl really don't like her (and neither do i under some points), but she's absolutely BI; exploring her storyline you'll get without any doubts that she had at least one important engagement with another female; also in the very early stage of the game, when you meet her on Hutta, i can say that she's also flirting with you no matter the gender.

 

- Temple: she can be adapted to SGR for the same reasons of Quinn, but also i don't see she fit in the role; too "tradionalistic" minded on a lot of things, and I see her as the "happy ending damsel", so not quite good for non-canonic views

 

- Vector: sure possible, i can only imagine that his new existence status as a joiner (so an hive mind with all that thoughts sharing) it's only fair that he's open to same gender romance

 

BOUNTY HUNTER

 

- Mako: uhm, i'm a bit conflictuated about her; as for Ashara, i don't think she has a strong personality, maybe her young age can ignite the fire for "experimenting" new things

 

- Torian: well, as said before there is at least one precedent in SW universe about two mandalorian males married together...so why not?

 

Gault: that would be VERY interesting in my opinion, because the more i go ahead with his story line, the more i like him; i think he's a controversy and somewhat tortured character, it's absolutely open to expansion of the story itself on SGR options.

 

JEDI KNIGHT:

 

- Kyra: for both the fact that she's the only female of the crew plus her very attitude, i think she will be THE sgra option of the year

 

- Doc: not so sure about him, i haven't go so far in conversation to know enough

 

- Scourge: what i've get from this character on his personality traits is "i do what i want, ever. period." So, that old how he is, why the heck not...

 

JEDI CONSULAR

 

I haven't played the class yet, so i don't have any feedback about

 

SMUGGLER

 

- Risha: sure, lust is lust, no matter where you get it...

 

- Akaavi Spar: Torian style thinking, why not

 

- Corso: i personally don't like him, to obvious under many aspect, but he's also the only viable male character of the class for an sgr... unless you want to work on Guss Tuno or Bowaadar BW! *_*

 

TROOPER

 

- Aric Jorgan: as said before for other characters, unlucky, he's the only possible option for a male same gender content; Yuun and Tanno are too alien (both phisically and mentally) to be an option IMO

 

- Elara Dorne: hell yeah, the uptight ex-imperial all business and regulations with a crush for her squad commander also female... it's something to think about

 

 

Well, thanks for reading!

 

And as a side note: i don't like all the possible options i've quoted, i've put them only based with current companions; i really hope they'll introduce new companions with the story expansions to avoid some personality conflict i've said before just to give us a same gender option

[Captain_Zone]

You mean - along with a level extension? If not the upcoming one then may the extension from 55 to 60 or?

 

That would be worse. A lot worse. Considering that most of us probably wouldn't want to wait that long.

 

Ahh, insomnia. Gotta love it. lol

[Tatile]

She was redesigned from being white with blonde hair (shown in some beta images floating around the web) to being brown-skinned with black hair. That might be why it feels like her voice doesn't suit her appearance (and why I got the blonde customization for her).

 

She sounds like a woman who's been through a British public or private school, lived an upper-middle class lifestyle and is probably going to work for the Beeb as a reporter. Skin colour doesn't come in to it.

 

They likely changed from being blonde because she looked too much like Elara Dorne? Not that I've seen Dorne, but I've always suspected she's blonde, blue-eyed, hair piled onto of her head in a messy ponytail.

[Chaac]

This is excellent. I can, however offer a few small corrections.

 

Thanks Uluain! Edited all those in. That's weird with the link as it wasn't working for me either yesterday, every time I clicked on it it came up saying the video had been removed but it's working fine today.

[Rabenschwinge]

That would be worse. A lot worse. Considering that most of us probably wouldn't want to wait that long.

 

Ahh, insomnia. Gotta love it. lol

 

Unlike many others here, same gender romances are a "nice to have" feature as far as I am concerned, something of grave importance, regardless of how interesting it may be to discuss it. The existing hetero romances were not that thrilling either. If they had a Leliana I might feel different about it.