Same gender relationships clarifications?

[AelixVII]

So, 'story is very important', they say, therefore they will be bringing the VA's back in to read lines for the next chapter since they're on contract. Presumably then, (if this wasn't done way in advance) they'd write in new SGR storylines alongside this and add an option to refund companion affection and missions. Also it would make sense just to reverse the current options, not have to add a new companion for SGR's.

[Tatile]

Something that has never been actually stated, ever, is that there will be same-gender romances available to all classes nor, within classes that do have them, romances for both genders.

 

Opposite gender romances already exist for both genders in all classes. If Bioware do not introduce same gender romances for both genders in all classes then we can certainly affirm that their heads are wedged rather tightly inside their kittens.

[MoogleNut]

It would be precisely the same as if they'd said, 'Oh, only Troopers and Sith Warriors can PvP.'

 

In short: unacceptable.

 

^This.

Honestly I don't think they'd be that clueless to only have a few token same gendered options spread across the classes - that, to me, WOULD be an insult. I'm pretty laid back as a rule (yay for ASD Most stuff just flies over my head as I merrily wander "off to Narnia" as my big brother describes it ), and know enough about how things are created to be patient to a point, although as I said in an earlier post, I couldn't bring myself to play for a good few months due to not the lack of sgras themselves, but the lack of info.

 

The recent 'leak' and 'almost official' confirmation of inclusion with Makeb has boosted my spirits and I now have started playing again in preparation.

 

The way I've read the situation is this - if only a few sgra options were going to be added scattered across the classes, it would not have taken them a year to include them - far less work than re-doing some of the existing companions to be fully integrated as they should have been from the start. I could be wrong of course, but that's the feeling I'm getting. That and I don't believe Bioware:Austin would be such monumental Bosh'tets as do do that.

 

This whole thing has, I must admit, been easier for me as I do differentiate between Bioware:Canada and Bioware :Austin. If this was the Canada branch I doubt very much things would have gone on this long - with the likes of David Gaider on-board it would have been a no-brainer - sgras would have been in from the start.

 

With a lot of classes only getting the one female companion, I do worry though that us girls will get a better deal in terms of our wish-list than the guys. I hope not though. (On a side-note, it always makes me laugh when the f/f options are derided as being primarily eye-candy for the boys. I never understood the whole 'male-gaze' accusations that get thrown around. I'm a gay woman, therefore I like a beautiful woman as much as the next straight man, so while I know we tend to get priority when it comes to inclusion over our male counterparts simply because a higher demographic enjoys what we enjoy, I find it hilarious when I'm told I'm not really supposed to enjoy the content because it's not actually for me, it's actually for the boys - they like bewbage, I like bewbage, can't see the difference that's just me of course your mileage may vary )

 

As for which companions 'make sense' - I take that as meaning two things. The first and obvious (to most of us at least) is the non-droid/non-too alien companions - pretty much the same criteria as the ogras for that point then.

 

Secondly, from what I can gather, most of the ogra options are tied to the classes' main story - Kira, Mako, Jorgen, Corso, Risha spring immediately to mind. Now, much as with for example Dragon Age and Mass Effect, those companions form a bond with the PC as the story progresses, they go through stuff together and grow closer as a result. It might just be me, but if those relationships make sense with an opposite gendered PC no matter their appearance/species/level of Bosh'tet-ness - then it makes the same sense that that bond would grow with same gendered PC.

 

So,um, yeah, I don't thing we have much to worry about regarding 'tokenism'.

 

^.^

[Uluain]

Okay - that one is perhaps far-fetched, but it was literally an awake-at-three-in-the-morning thing. Still, with nothing solid to go on but "this year" and "Makeb" and companions that "make sense", well...

[Palar]

Okay - that one is perhaps far-fetched, but it was literally an awake-at-three-in-the-morning thing. Still, with nothing solid to go on but "this year" and "Makeb" and companions that "make sense", well...

 

If they don't want us speculating, there's an easy fix - some actual information.

[Uluain]

If they don't want us speculating, there's an easy fix - some actual information.

 

They are probably holding out on us so that they can sell us the information in the Cartel shop.

 

Sad thing is, at this point I'd probably pay for it.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Uluain

[Tatile]

They are probably holding out on us so that they can sell us the information in the Cartel shop.

 

Sad thing is, at this point I'd probably pay for it.

 

No, they'll put the information in lock boxes which you also need to buy keys for, but because all the contents of the lock boxes are random there's no guarantee that it will be in there. It will also be an in-game item which self destructs two minutes after you read it.

[AelixVII]

Sad thing is, at this point I'd probably pay for it.

Same here. I think I'd even take the current romance story lines no matter how many times the SGR option would refer to my Agent as woman. :/

[Tatile]

Same here. I think I'd even take the current romance story lines no matter how many times the SGR option would refer to my Agent as woman. :/

 

With the advanced technology in Star Wars you may be able to get pregnant, though. Birth would be c-section of course. Now I'm just imagining my Agent getting pregnant with Vector's fingerlings >.>;;

[Quething]

If it's 1.5, there's not exactly a wide range - unless there's something about Satele or T7 they haven't told us.

 

Don't tease my poor Shansessed Knight

 

But yes that is a valid point. There are quite a few classes with some serious smurfette issues going on, and that does make f/f options a bit obvious and the idea of "only characters who ~make sense~" kind of ominous. If Elara doesn't swing from the lady tree you could maybe still offer Jaxo for trooper (which would still be arguably uncool because spoiler spoiler, but is still something), but if Ashara or Kira ~seem too straight~ for the devs, the queer femknight or femquisitor is basically SOL.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Quething

[MoogleNut]

Okay - that one is perhaps far-fetched, but it was literally an awake-at-three-in-the-morning thing. Still, with nothing solid to go on but "this year" and "Makeb" and companions that "make sense", well...

 

Hehe, yeah, I get you.

They say 'less is more', well, in our case 'less' just means more chance for our brains to go places no brain is meant to go

 

Unfortunately, there's plenty of people out there who think even a few token options is more than we should be getting - how they can't see that if they can have their 'hero gets the girl' story, then we should be able to have our 'heroine gets the girl/hero gets the guy' stories too. If they can ignore the fact that thousands of other guys get the same girl, what's stopping them from ignoring the fact that thousands of girls are also romancing the same girl?

 

/sigh, there's only so many times you can bang your head against that brick wall before (more) brain-damage sets in

 

Anyhoo, I've used enough words for now, time to go count the hours until Dr Who

[Rabenschwinge]

Something like an expanded version of the 'fake-out LI' on Coruscant, if you play a male Trooper? That could be interesting.

 

I've never played a male trooper. I am not quite sure which of the possibilities is listed you were referring to.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Rabenschwinge

[Rabenschwinge]

I am curious what it would change for those who are already around for a while if same gender romances were added.

 

Obviously you would have to start over with a new character. And then what? Just that there is a new option doesn't mean I'd like it. If Nadia was a consular option I would rather keep it the way it is: My consular did not romance anyone. Would you pick your class just for the romance option? Maybe even pick an attitude and alignment so that the subject of your fancy would like your dialogue answers better?

 

Eight classes, two genders and two sexual orientations for each, makes a total of at least 32 different options (some if which would be the same for gay and straight of course), and that would still mean that you will have to stick with one you got. Or leave it. To that end, such a strict separation between classes and factions was not an ideal choice for the game. And if the species is important to you it gets really complicated.

 

For our level 50 character it would hardly change anything - or whatever the max level will be then.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Rabenschwinge

[stuffystuffs]

Opposite gender romances already exist for both genders in all classes. If Bioware do not introduce same gender romances for both genders in all classes then we can certainly affirm that their heads are wedged rather tightly inside their kittens.

 

Sadly, I don't think they will. They've stated that they will only do it with current companions that "make sense" (that phrase makes me cringe*) and offering at least one male/one female SGRA for each current class would pretty much be the same as making all the current options available (I think there are 2 classes that have 2 female options so these would be the exception)....and they've stated that they wouldn't do something like that.

 

So, if some writer happens to think Kira doesn't "make sense" (which is completely dumb, btw) then the female JK will probably have to wait until they add in new companions (so...probably years).

 

If you want this content, you'll have to roll certain classes and if you don't have a toon in one of those classes (or you do but don't like the SGRA option) then you will have a long wait ahead of you.

 

Of course, THAT SUCKS but from what they've told us, I think this is how it wlll be implemented (I hope I'm wrong).

 

*I really hate the "makes sense" comment considering we are talking about companions for which you can drastically alter their appearance after you recruit them. You can also parade a female companion around in a slave girl outfit even if it doesn't "make sense" for that particular character to wear something like that into combat.

 

Obviously you would have to start over with a new character. And then what?

 

Maybe...but they could also implement a companion dialog reset feature...which is a good thing in general since often it's a few weeks in between companion conversations and it's easy to forget what was going on in their story....having the ability to quickly replay the conversation tree up to current point would be awesome (they'd have to disable affection gains/losses here so the system couldn't be abused).

 

Just that there is a new option doesn't mean I'd like it. If Nadia was a consular option I would rather keep it the way it is: My consular did not romance anyone.

 

Yeah, my Consular wouldn't romance Nadia either (I like their Master/Padawan relationship more) but I'd still like to see the option there so I could have the option to not pursue it (just like I choose to not pursue the Consular's male LI option whoever the heck that is). Even if I don't like the Nadia romance, I like that it's my choice as a player whether or not the romance happens.

Edited September 29, 2012 by stuffystuffs

[Rabenschwinge]

Maybe...but they could also implement a companion dialog reset feature...which is a good thing in general since often it's a few weeks in between companion conversations and it's easy to forget what was going on in their story....having the ability to quickly replay the conversation tree up to current point would be awesome (they'd have to disable affection gains/losses here so the system couldn't be abused).

 

That wouldn't really make sense - you would click through the romance in half an hour, and skip all the flirty comments along the class story...

 

I believe the matter of new companions could be simplified if some classes shared companions. A new companion for all Jedi, for all Sith, for IAs and smugglers and one for troopers and bounty hunters for example... Not that I really think that Bioware would ever do anything like that.

 

As I've said earlier - the one female option I would really like even though I know she's not a companion character would be... "the character formerly known as Watcher 2".

 

Oh, and my impression on Kira is indeed that she's straight as a turbolaser beam. Not that I would push of my bed's edge if she slipped in at night for some additional workout.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Rabenschwinge

[Captain_Zone]

If it's 1.5, there's not exactly a wide range - unless there's something about Satele or T7 they haven't told us.

 

Mmmmm Satele..... I'll be in my bunk.

[Tatile]

Yes, I do wonder what they mean by the phrase "makes sense" - it does worry me that they may be thinking along the lines of who is most close to various stereotypes and will be using those for their "makes sense" romances. I do believe they didn't like the idea of making all romance companions bisexual (as they think it's bad writing) but exactly what else are they going to do? All female companions can be romanced by male characters - are they only going to make one of the women bi? Will it be Kaliyo? (I really think it will be.)

 

Do they think Quinn to prim and proper to bed down with a male Sith Lord? Is Pierce too "traditionally" manly? Is Andronikus too like Han Solo to be gay? What exactly are the qualifiers for "makes sense"?

 

I guess we'll have to wait until Bioware deigns to have these categories inscribed and sent down the mountain.

[Captain_Zone]

Yes, I do wonder what they mean by the phrase "makes sense" - it does worry me that they may be thinking along the lines of who is most close to various stereotypes and will be using those for their "makes sense" romances. I do believe they didn't like the idea of making all romance companions bisexual (as they think it's bad writing) but exactly what else are they going to do? All female companions can be romanced by male characters - are they only going to make one of the women bi? Will it be Kaliyo? (I really think it will be.)

 

Do they think Quinn to prim and proper to bed down with a male Sith Lord? Is Pierce too "traditionally" manly? Is Andronikus too like Han Solo to be gay? What exactly are the qualifiers for "makes sense"?

 

I guess we'll have to wait until Bioware deigns to have these categories inscribed and sent down the mountain.

 

I seriously doubt they would go that route, tbh. They COULD, but I don't think they will. As for making sense, Kaliyo makes sense. Not just because she's tough, but she's dang near come out and openly said "Yep. I'm bisexual. You got a problem with that?" She does this in one of her letters to the Agent after her romance arc is complete. She basically tells you that she's going to cheat on you during long hyperspace trips, bringing multiple attractive young people aboard to play around with. lol

[Tatile]

I brought up Kaliyo because she's the one everyone knows to be openly bi (or pan, if consider persons outside of the gender binary), but what I was trying to say is that because every female companion in-game is a romance option and that Bioware don't want to make every romance option bisexual, does that mean there will be only one or two lesbian romance options.

[MoogleNut]

But that's the thing though - at the guild summit they DIDN'T say they weren't going to make any of the current romance options available to the same gender- they said they weren't going to just switch pronouns, which would be bad writing. Taken at face value, this, to me, says they're going to write new lines for the available companions - not just cut any lines that refer to the player as a man/woman, and certainly not that it would be only new companions.

 

I can see where the 'new companion only' thing comes from - the quote about mmos growing with new content, and the very important word INCLUDING - not instead of, but in addition to. I read this as future companions will ALSO be sgra available, doesn't discount existing ones, but adds to the roster.

 

Edit: As mentioned earlier Scorpio for instance doesn't make sense because she/it's a droid - the currently available ones do, again for reasons posted earlier - bond created while saving the galaxy/hunting treasure etc.

 

Apologies if I come across a little miffed here, stoopid flatmate's stioopid puppy's barking woke me early from my nap - what I'm trying to say is, perhaps if the words that were said were taken at face value and not read too much into, our merry band of rainbow Tor warriors wouldn't be so, um pessimistic?

 

Sometimes when you hear hooves, it really is horses not zebras

Edited September 29, 2012 by MoogleNut

[stuffystuffs]

That wouldn't really make sense - you would click through the romance in half an hour, and skip all the flirty comments along the class story...

 

You don't have to do it in a half hour...you could space it out as you wish.

 

It's possible that you would miss out on the comments during the story, but it's better than nothing for current lvl 50s.

 

Oh, and my impression on Kira is indeed that she's straight as a turbolaser beam.

 

I just wonder why? There's nothing in her story arc that suggests either one way or the other.

 

 

I seriously doubt they would go that route, tbh. They COULD, but I don't think they will. As for making sense, Kaliyo makes sense. Not just because she's tough, but she's dang near come out and openly said "Yep. I'm bisexual. You got a problem with that?" She does this in one of her letters to the Agent after her romance arc is complete. She basically tells you that she's going to cheat on you during long hyperspace trips, bringing multiple attractive young people aboard to play around with. lol

 

I don't think Kaliyo as a character makes any more sense than, let's say, Ensign Temple. It's just that there are possible hints in game now that Kaliyo might have been intended to be an SGRA option.

 

 

Yes, I do wonder what they mean by the phrase "makes sense" - it does worry me that they may be thinking along the lines of who is most close to various stereotypes and will be using those for their "makes sense" romances.

 

Yeah, that's all I can think of.

 

All female companions can be romanced by male characters - are they only going to make one of the women bi? Will it be Kaliyo? (I really think it will be.)

 

Honestly, that's my current expectation. One female SGRA on the Empire side, one male. Same for the Republic side.

 

And they will probably be with the characters that fit closer to the "stereotype".

 

Though, I do personally like Kaliyo lots, but to be limited to only her on all my toons would suck. I do have a SW, JK, SI, etc. and I might make a Trooper and Smuggler in the future.

Edited September 29, 2012 by stuffystuffs

[Palar]

I've never played a male trooper. I am not quite sure which of the possibilities is listed you were referring to.

 

Jaxo - she has reoccuring appearances throughout the larger story, and then spoiler spoiler while spoiler. Kind of like Theran, a 'decoy LI', only not a companion.

 

 

And now I've got "makes sense" vagueness as another ball to juggle, rather than letting them drop and walking away.

[MyrrEm]

Well, I hope, that by "make sense" Bioware means "isn't Doc", because, that is the only companion I would never ever ever romance ^^ (And it really doesn't make sense. Can you imagine gay Doc? I certainly cannot -.-)

[losdia]

Well, I hope, that by "make sense" Bioware means "isn't Doc", because, that is the only companion I would never ever ever romance ^^ (And it really doesn't make sense. Can you imagine gay Doc? I certainly cannot -.-)

 

I dunno, maybe Doc's SGR story could give him even more freudian excuses by saying part of his issue stem from repressed homosexuality. Can't you see! All he needs is some gay lovin' to help him! We can fix him.

Edited September 29, 2012 by losdia

[Tatile]

freudian ... homosexuality.

 

There's a bad taste joke in there, but I won't force it on you lot.

 

I've never met Doc, and though I do think a womanizer having feelings for another man would be interesting it has the potential to tread into PC-sexual "you're raised feelings in me I've never known before *swoon*" cliche territory. At this point though I'm not sure PC-sexual is all that of a bad thing if it means we'll get a look-in at the content :/

 

Sacrificing principles for security? What have I become?