How un-subbing doesn't help population

[ZirusZero]

Look, before you ask, it's not only Bioware's fault, but the community's. By un-subbing, the population lowers, in which ironically people un-sub about there being low population *Chuckles*. However, this is also bioware's fault by spreading out the community in having too many servers. Just my 2 cents here.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Finally. Glad to see someone else noticed that the problem is not a missing LFG tool or missing transfers, but the fact that less and less people play the game.

LFG, merges or transfers are only curing a symptom.

[kriegheld]

Are you suggesting that we should continue to support this game and company?

 

Don't blame the smart ones that see the writing on the wall. MMO veterans know exactly what is happening.

[chaosdefined]

Last I checked, it was Bioware, not the Community that were slow to open Server Transfers, fix bugs and basically released a game still in it's Beta.

Bioware is paid to keep customers satisfied.

The Community pays to play.

 

So whose fault is it if people are leaving the game again?

[Phinion]

Are you saying that by unsubbing I am causing the low pops on servers? Yes in a way I am. But ask yourself this, why did all those people unsub in the first place? If they enjoyed the state of the game as it is now they would have continued to sub. So what is driving them away. We all know new games will always pull people away, happens in every game. But, why are people not coming back?

 

Think about it and read some of those "trolling" threads and you will find your answer.

[GalacticKegger]

Look, before you ask, it's not only Bioware's fault, but the community's. By un-subbing, the population lowers, in which ironically people un-sub about there being low population *Chuckles*. However, this is also bioware's fault by spreading out the community in having too many servers. Just my 2 cents here.

If it's payback you're looking for, perhaps you should take it out on early access' petulant nerd ragers that all but forced Bioware to add those 70+ new servers at launch. Had BW ignored them (their fear was repeating Blizzard's debacle with WoW's release) and stuck to their plan instead of graciously giving the mob what it wanted, this wouldn't even be a topic. Edited May 28, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[thomasgallant]

If it's payback you're looking for, perhaps you should take it out on early access' petulant nerd ragers that all but forced Bioware to add those 70+ new servers at launch. Had BW ignored them (their fear was repeating Blizzard's debacle with WoW's release) and stuck to their plan instead of graciously giving the mob what it wanted, this wouldn't even be a topic.

 

unforunitly i agree completely.. bioware listened to the whining at release and added to many servers.. thinning the population to much and there are some people who dont feel they should be forced to wait around for the population fixes( their right..) but ya every person that leaves is one less for the game.. which sucks.. but if bioware honestly hadden have added so many servers it wouldnt be nearly as bad..

[stineo]

Last I checked, it was Bioware, not the Community that were slow to open Server Transfers, fix bugs and basically released a game still in it's Beta.

Bioware is paid to keep customers satisfied.

The Community pays to play.

 

So whose fault is it if people are leaving the game again?

 

Let's not pretend that alot of these MMO players today are WoW players looking for that WoW killer MMO to pull them from thier addiction of it. When that MMO doesn't come with all the bells and whistles like a 7+ year old game, they whine, whine, whine then move on the NEXT new MMO and rinse and repeat. Destroying that new MMO. I have seen this BS happen to ALL new MMOs I have play. And I expect this to happen to any future MMO, no matter how great it is. People want Ez-mode MMOs now with fast food add-ons you can think of.

 

PvP can be little distraction for a bit for these band-wagon players. But after a few months when the players who actually perfect the PvP gameplay and gear up. The casuals, these fairweather players, will start the whine posts and threaten to quit because they can't compete anymore in the few hours they play a week. Or the hardcores who level to max in a few weeks and complain that there is nothing to do.

 

Blizzard treats thier players like moody spoiled brats that just want things handed to them. Giving in to whatever demands thier player base wanted. And what gets hurt at the end is the MMO community as a whole. When a noisy 14 year old teen holds alot of power in a given MMO forum and the sheep follow along to influence the devs to changing a game. That is a sign that the MMO gaming industry is slowly die.

Edited May 28, 2012 by stineo

[Phinion]

If it's payback you're looking for, perhaps you should take it out on early access' petulant nerd ragers that all but forced Bioware to add those 70+ new servers at launch. Had BW ignored them and stuck to their plan instead of graciously giving the mob what it wanted, this wouldn't even be a topic.

 

Very true. However, BW gave the players what they wanted, a chance to even play the game. The problem was and still is that they had no backup plan in place once the 25% left the game to keep the servers highly populated. They stated several times that they knew at least 25% of the population would leave the game within the first 6 months. So why did they not have a plan in place just in case the worst happens? Looking at some of the servers and the forums it looks like it has happened.

[Caran]

Sorry, but I simply refuse to stay subbed (i.e. spending even MORE money) on a game that I do not really enjoy. I'm not here to "help" the game, but to enjoy it. It is Bioware's task to produce an enjoyable game - for me, they failed.

[stineo]

Sorry, but I simply refuse to stay subbed (i.e. spending even MORE money) on a game that I do not really enjoy. I'm not here to "help" the game, but to enjoy it. It is Bioware's task to produce an enjoyable game - for me, they failed.

 

Yet you continue to post on thier forums. Ok you said they failed, maybe it's time to let go.

[stineo]

Very true. However, BW gave the players what they wanted, a chance to even play the game. The problem was and still is that they had no backup plan in place once the 25% left the game to keep the servers highly populated. They stated several times that they knew at least 25% of the population would leave the game within the first 6 months. So why did they not have a plan in place just in case the worst happens? Looking at some of the servers and the forums it looks like it has happened.

 

The slow down of content is due to players wanting to turn SWTOR or any new MMO into a total WoW-clone. Don't fool yourself, this happens to all new MMOs. Adding all that crap that WoW has, takes time. Coding/programming is very complex, then those lines of code have to be tested and debugged. Takes time to do that, but your average teenage MMO player or impatient and ignorant adult will not know that or even care. They want what they want now!

Edited May 28, 2012 by stineo

[DarthBandeth]

Yet you continue to post on thier forums. Ok you said they failed, maybe it's time to let go.

 

This.

 

Un-Subbing does help a bit actually. It forces Bioware do something about it.

[-Eternal-]

Look, before you ask, it's not only Bioware's fault, but the community's. By un-subbing, the population lowers, in which ironically people un-sub about there being low population *Chuckles*. However, this is also bioware's fault by spreading out the community in having too many servers. Just my 2 cents here.

 

Yes we should all continue to reward Bioware's blatant incompetence by paying our monthly subscriptions so that "one day" they can figure out how to run an MMO. That's a geniius point.

[Caran]

Yet you continue to post on thier forums. Ok you said they failed, maybe it's time to let go.

 

Account has been cancelled - just some days remaining.

[Dosvidaniya]

If it's payback you're looking for, perhaps you should take it out on early access' petulant nerd ragers that all but forced Bioware to add those 70+ new servers at launch. Had BW ignored them (their fear was repeating Blizzard's debacle with WoW's release) and stuck to their plan instead of graciously giving the mob what it wanted, this wouldn't even be a topic.

 

Incorrect. The decision to have long queues (as you are suggesting) and basically guarantee that people quit by pissing them off from day one is not a good one. Go look at TORStatus. This game kept a good chunk of population for a couple of months. Having a 2+ hour long queue every evening for a month is a great way to get people to quit. Alternatively, they could open more servers and then prep for the decline (which has happened in every single MMO ever).

 

They opened more servers. They just didn't prepare for the decline. There are other options; like using overflow servers (as seen in GW2). BW had options. Their job is to keep the sane customers happy so that those customers keep paying them. Their launch was rather enjoyable because they catered to sane people that didn't want to wait in 5+ hour long queues. It's too bad that they didn't plan ahead.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Dosvidaniya

[GalacticKegger]

Incorrect. The decision to have long queues (as you are suggesting) and basically guarantee that people quit by pissing them off from day one is not a good one. Go look at TORStatus. This game kept a good chunk of population for a couple of months. Having a 2+ hour long queue every evening for a month is a great way to get people to quit. Alternatively, they could open more servers and then prep for the decline (which has happened in every single MMO ever).

 

They opened more servers. They just didn't prepare for the decline. There are other options; like using overflow servers (as seen in GW2). BW had options. Their job is to keep the sane customers happy so that those customers keep paying them. Their launch was rather enjoyable because they catered to sane people that didn't want to wait in 5+ hour long queues. It's too bad that they didn't plan ahead.

You are most correct. But that was AFTER the login queue issue was fixed, which took all of about 3+ weeks, and the rerolling onto the new servers was fresh. Just a guess, but Bioware was possibly assuming that their audience was populated by seasoned MMOers (UO, WoW, LOTRO, STO, SWG, etc.) who had BTDT with other previous MMO releases and understood the early release login queue thing. If it's Bioware's fault it's becaue they gave self-proclaimed MMO vets too much cred where cred wasn't due.

 

As was eloquently posted in another thread: customers don't always know what they want, they only know they want it. That's not good enough to make anything work.

Edited May 28, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Thuggy]

The slow down of content is due to players wanting to turn SWTOR or any new MMO into a total WoW-clone. Don't fool yourself, this happens to all new MMOs. Adding all that crap that WoW has, takes time. Coding/programming is very complex, then those lines of code have to be tested and debugged. Takes time to do that, but your average teenage MMO player or impatient and ignorant adult will not know that or even care. They want what they want now!

 

1) While content can be pushed back...but MMO teams are multi-headed and just because they're working on one thing, doesn't mean they are not able to work on others. A content team is not using the same people as a systems design team.

2) All of those missing features were brought up in beta and largely ignored, I know, I was in beta. None of the current issues should have been a surprise.

3) The ability to character transfer/copy should have been a priority before launch...the fact they were never able to get it right has put them seriously behind the eight ball. Not just for server mobility, but also the ability to run a strong public test server....and again, this is something that was easily foreseeable.

[Phinion]

The slow down of content is due to players wanting to turn SWTOR or any new MMO into a total WoW-clone. Don't fool yourself, this happens to all new MMOs. Adding all that crap that WoW has, takes time. Coding/programming is very complex, then those lines of code have to be tested and debugged. Takes time to do that, but your average teenage MMO player or impatient and ignorant adult will not know that or even care. They want what they want now!

 

Never said I wanted a WoW clone. I want something new with replayability.The first time through on each faction was an awesome experience. But after that there is no reason to roll another toon unless you are an alt-aholic. What I was saying that at launch people hated having the hour or longer que time just to play the game. BW's answer was to add more servers. They knew people would leave the game after the first couple months. With people leaving the server pops would drop. BW had no plan in action to counter low server populations. Their answer now is server transfers. I hghly doubt BW will allow players to bring their 50's from a dead server to a high pop server. So who wants to transfer to a dead from a dead server?

[Irenicus_Jon]

I'm sorry, what?

 

I should keep my sub going while I am unable to play on my server because it has less then 30 people online during prime time?

 

Should I keep my character logged in, waiting at the imperial fleet at all times? Perhaps I should buy a 2nd copy of the game and a 2nd subscription to keep two characters online? So my server appears less dead?

 

Perhaps I should also organize rallies against unsubbing and send out brochures to people who have unsubbed?

[Dezzi]

If it's payback you're looking for, perhaps you should take it out on early access' petulant nerd ragers that all but forced Bioware to add those 70+ new servers at launch. Had BW ignored them (their fear was repeating Blizzard's debacle with WoW's release) and stuck to their plan instead of graciously giving the mob what it wanted, this wouldn't even be a topic.

 

Yes, blame the players for something BioWare decided to do. It was a boneheaded decision and they knew better, but that didn't stop them, did it? All but forced... cry me a river. Boo hoo. Poor BioWare.

 

To the OP: Perhaps if the game were in a better state, the people leaving wouldn't be compounding the problem. First impressions are most important--especially for MMOs. Unfortunately SWTOR didn't present a great first impression and I'm hard pressed to believe many of those who have left or not subscribed (upwards of 1.1 million people) will be coming back anytime soon. The game is MMO-lite so people expecting a true AAA MMO experience leave, which causes low populations, prompting others to follow. It's a deadly cycle and SWTOR is in the middle of it.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Dezzi

[Daftastic]

The OP's logic is asinine. It's the equivalent of me buying great looking clothes from a company that fall apart at the seams in a week. I love how they look and I keep buying them in order to help the company stay in business so they can fix their quality issues? Or frequenting a restaurant where I like the atmosphere, but the food sucks; I keep going so they don't shut down while they hire new chefs to make the food better?

 

Bioware rolled out a very smooth launch, but since then the game has been one bad decision after another. I wonder how much time they spent on Legacy? The ONLY reason I like Legacy is it allows me to buy stuff on my Imperial 50 and send it to my Republic 50. Ordinarily I would hate that, but there is NOBODY on the Republic side making WZs, FPs, OPs and the GTN completely nonexistent. The only way I can get ANY gear is if my Imp character supplies my Pub with supplies.

 

I haven't officially unsubbed yet. But they have until my July expiration date or I'm gone. And I'll be completely honest, I don't see how they can fix this mess. I hate for people to lose their job, especially in this economy, but all these Warhammer retreads probably shouldnt have been given another crack to begin with.

[chaosdefined]

Let's not pretend that alot of these MMO players today are WoW players looking for that WoW killer MMO to pull them from thier addiction of it. When that MMO doesn't come with all the bells and whistles like a 7+ year old game, they whine, whine, whine then move on the NEXT new MMO and rinse and repeat. Destroying that new MMO. I have seen this BS happen to ALL new MMOs I have play. And I expect this to happen to any future MMO, no matter how great it is. People want Ez-mode MMOs now with fast food add-ons you can think of.

 

PvP can be little distraction for a bit for these band-wagon players. But after a few months when the players who actually perfect the PvP gameplay and gear up. The casuals, these fairweather players, will start the whine posts and threaten to quit because they can't compete anymore in the few hours they play a week. Or the hardcores who level to max in a few weeks and complain that there is nothing to do.

 

Blizzard treats thier players like moody spoiled brats that just want things handed to them. Giving in to whatever demands thier player base wanted. And what gets hurt at the end is the MMO community as a whole. When a noisy 14 year old teen holds alot of power in a given MMO forum and the sheep follow along to influence the devs to changing a game. That is a sign that the MMO gaming industry is slowly die.

 

Sorry but if you release a product, it has to at least match the competition in terms of features or it will fail.

 

Would you expect a phone to be released without internet, camera or Apps but be the same price as current models?

 

Would you expect a computer to be released with single-core CPU, 2gb of RAM and Windows XP and be priced the same as a brand new PC?

 

No. So stop trying to use that excuse for the failings of BW.

[Cerdo_hormiguero]

Look, before you ask, it's not only Bioware's fault, but the community's. By un-subbing, the population lowers, in which ironically people un-sub about there being low population *Chuckles*. However, this is also bioware's fault by spreading out the community in having too many servers. Just my 2 cents here.

 

So you recommend people continue paying to play an unplayable game? That makes no sense. Bioware created this snowball effect; don't blame the momentum, it's their fault.

[Limedust]

Let's not pretend that alot of these MMO players today are WoW players looking for that WoW killer MMO to pull them from thier addiction of it. When that MMO doesn't come with all the bells and whistles like a 7+ year old game, they whine, whine, whine then move on the NEXT new MMO and rinse and repeat. Destroying that new MMO. I have seen this BS happen to ALL new MMOs I have play. And I expect this to happen to any future MMO, no matter how great it is. People want Ez-mode MMOs now with fast food add-ons you can think of.

 

PvP can be little distraction for a bit for these band-wagon players. But after a few months when the players who actually perfect the PvP gameplay and gear up. The casuals, these fairweather players, will start the whine posts and threaten to quit because they can't compete anymore in the few hours they play a week. Or the hardcores who level to max in a few weeks and complain that there is nothing to do.

 

Blizzard treats thier players like moody spoiled brats that just want things handed to them. Giving in to whatever demands thier player base wanted. And what gets hurt at the end is the MMO community as a whole. When a noisy 14 year old teen holds alot of power in a given MMO forum and the sheep follow along to influence the devs to changing a game. That is a sign that the MMO gaming industry is slowly die.

 

Lot of incomplete sentences there . . . but I think I get it. You want people to be a certain sort of customer; they should be neither hardcore nor casual, not critical, ideally should not have played another MMO (especially WoW), and should be satisfied at all points with what they are given even when they, in ignorance, realize something is wrong but can't articulate the problem because they have no basis for comparison.

 

Interesting. I bet Bioware was hoping for the same sort of player.