How un-subbing doesn't help population

[wutru]

It's funny how the fanbois were yelling at people to go back to wow. They did, and now you're all left with empty servers. lol.

[alifaraaz]

Well yeah it has a knock-on effect. Which is why the dying servers die quicker than the not so dead ones. I know that's obvious. But you know what I mean

 

And thats exactly why transfers need to come asap to mitigate the damage

[WrecklessMEDIC]

unforunitly i agree completely.. bioware listened to the whining at release and added to many servers.. thinning the population to much and there are some people who dont feel they should be forced to wait around for the population fixes( their right..) but ya every person that leaves is one less for the game.. which sucks.. but if bioware honestly hadden have added so many servers it wouldnt be nearly as bad..

 

Agreed 100%. It was our own fault for complaining to BioWare that they needed to launch more servers so that nobody would have to wait in queue at launch. We are the ones to blame for this debacle. BioWare was foolish enough to listen to our misguided opinions and I for one hope they take our advice with a grain of salt from now on.

[Snakeyees]

Yet you continue to post on thier forums. Ok you said they failed, maybe it's time to let go.

 

He has paid for his time what he does with HIS PAID time is his business. Bio ware is an entertainment company and so far they are failing at that. what you might want to think about if he didn't care he wouldn't post. Its not the player bases responsibility to fix the mess that bio ware got themselves into, they get paid to produce a video game that has entertainment value. it was entertaining in the beginning but they are digging themselves in a hole deeper and deeper.

 

the only power a gamer has is with his subscription. why should we pay for development? most of us are not rich and work very hard for the money we earn, we also have to be careful on where we choose to spend it caused at least for me money doesn't grow on trees in my neighborhood.

[Daftastic]

Agreed 100%. It was our own fault for complaining to BioWare that they needed to launch more servers so that nobody would have to wait in queue at launch. We are the ones to blame for this debacle. BioWare was foolish enough to listen to our misguided opinions and I for one hope they take our advice with a grain of salt from now on.

 

Please. It was not our own fault. If Bioware didn't have a system in place for what EVERYONE knew would happen (people unsubbing after launch simply because they found the game wasn't for them), then they shouldn't have caved. Kicking the can down the road is failure.

[GalacticKegger]

Yes, blame the players for something BioWare decided to do. It was a boneheaded decision and they knew better, but that didn't stop them, did it? All but forced... cry me a river. Boo hoo. Poor BioWare.

 

To the OP: Perhaps if the game were in a better state, the people leaving wouldn't be compounding the problem. First impressions are most important--especially for MMOs. Unfortunately SWTOR didn't present a great first impression and I'm hard pressed to believe many of those who have left or not subscribed (upwards of 1.1 million people) will be coming back anytime soon. The game is MMO-lite so people expecting a true AAA MMO experience leave, which causes low populations, prompting others to follow. It's a deadly cycle and SWTOR is in the middle of it.

Personally, I hope they stay away and continue their griefing search for MMO perfection at another community's expense. The mob got what they wanted so here we are. I suppose mommy is at fault for the kids' obesity after giving them the candy they screamed bloody murder for. Bioware's mistake was in thinking they were listening to grownups. Edited May 28, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[WrecklessMEDIC]

Please. It was not our own fault. If Bioware didn't have a system in place for what EVERYONE knew would happen (people unsubbing after launch simply because they found the game wasn't for them), then they shouldn't have caved. Kicking the can down the road is failure.

 

You're right. They shouldn't have caved to OUR advice. But can you blame them? They tried to please the vocal minority and it ended up kicking them in the rear.

[Goretzu]

If it's payback you're looking for, perhaps you should take it out on early access' petulant nerd ragers that all but forced Bioware to add those 70+ new servers at launch. Had BW ignored them (their fear was repeating Blizzard's debacle with WoW's release) and stuck to their plan instead of graciously giving the mob what it wanted, this wouldn't even be a topic.

 

6+ hour queues were unsustainable.

 

The bigger problem though is that I am on a server that had 6+ hours queues, was still hitting V Heavy until 1.2, but now is never more than Light.

 

I can't see how not opening any new servers would have made the situation any better, when servers that were jam packed to the gunnells are now Light anyway.

[JimG]

If it's payback you're looking for, perhaps you should take it out on early access' petulant nerd ragers that all but forced Bioware to add those 70+ new servers at launch. Had BW ignored them (their fear was repeating Blizzard's debacle with WoW's release) and stuck to their plan instead of graciously giving the mob what it wanted, this wouldn't even be a topic.

 

Yep, agree 100%. Adding way too many servers to appease the ragers at launch on que times is what created the pop issues.

[GalacticKegger]

6+ hour queues were unsustainable.

 

The bigger problem though is that I am on a server that had 6+ hours queues, was still hitting V Heavy until 1.2, but now is never more than Light.

 

I can't see how not opening any new servers would have made the situation any better, when servers that were jam packed to the gunnells are now Light anyway.

But they had it fixed in a little over 3 weeks. The few they'd have lost from long queues during that month (in hindsight) would have been a great trade for the situation we're in now. Most who started this are long gone and probably laughing in their rear view mirrors. Edited May 28, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Razdek]

Im on a populated server so things like this dont really concern me... However i feel like bioware is taking a hell of a long time to fix the issues. I mean everyone knows that server transfers are required yet biowares response is soon. Unpopulared servers is just making them loose more and more players so instead of soon, it should be, okay we will get on that RIGHT NOW, not in two months time or whatever their long time frame is.

 

It just seems like bad business, and the loyal population is quickly becoming disloyal because they are the ones who are suffering. I dont want to see this game closed down due to lack of profit... It does feel like EAware is digging their own grave at this point and i am dissappointed.

 

Pull up your socks and put on your thinking caps EAware... This game needs tosurvive and prosper for a long time yet.

[Bluerodian]

Look, before you ask, it's not only Bioware's fault, but the community's. By un-subbing, the population lowers, in which ironically people un-sub about there being low population *Chuckles*. However, this is also bioware's fault by spreading out the community in having too many servers. Just my 2 cents here.

 

Great and wonderful and all that, but why should I give a tinker's damn if my unsubbing lowers the population? If Bioware was paying me to stay subbed it would be different, but they're not.

[Trenter]

This.

 

Un-Subbing does help a bit actually. It forces Bioware do something about it.

 

However, while showing your displeasure by un-subbing is effective, it might also lead to the development budget being heavily cut, hindering the developers to do as much about it as they would want. Atleast that's what I think. Catch 22.

 

While I'm all for people unsubbing if they don't find the product enjoyable, it's a bit sad at the same time. If this game would truly go down it'd be the first time in almost 10 years where there would be no Star Wars mmorpg available and my guess is that we would not see another one in atleast another 10 years.

[xandax]

If it's payback you're looking for, perhaps you should take it out on early access' petulant nerd ragers that all but forced Bioware to add those 70+ new servers at launch. Had BW ignored them (their fear was repeating Blizzard's debacle with WoW's release) and stuck to their plan instead of graciously giving the mob what it wanted, this wouldn't even be a topic.

 

Realistically - Bioware could do nothing else at launch than listen to the 'whiners' aka paying customers.

Not being able to play a game because you're stuck in a queue does not cause people to continue paying and staying subscribed either.

Had Bioware ignored them; they'd lost them as customers anyway.

By not ignoring them - they had a chance to keep them as customers.

 

What Bioware should have done was have contingency plans and tools developed along side it in case they needed to shut down servers/transfer people if the population started to dwindle.

Come now - it's not stupid to open servers when there's a need for them. It's stupid to not have the tools to shut them down in case they're not needed. And the fact that those tools weren't ... that's where Bioware has gone wrong.

 

And on topic: unsupping is the way to go if not finding value in the service. It would be foolish to pay for a product you're unhappy with.

Edited May 28, 2012 by xandax

[GalacticKegger]

Realistically - Bioware could do nothing else at launch than listen to the 'whiners' aka paying customers.

Not being able to play a game because you're stuck in a queue does not cause people to continue paying and staying subscribed either.

Had Bioware ignored them; they'd lost them as customers anyway.

By not ignoring them - they had a chance to keep them as customers.

 

What Bioware should have done was have contingency plans and tools developed along side it in case they needed to shut down servers/transfer people if the population started to dwindle.

 

Come now - it's not stupid to open servers when there's a need for them. It's stupid to not have the tools to shut them down in case they're not needed.

But there wasn't a need for them. It was right out of launch and they hadn't tested the server caps in a live-fire launch environment. There's no way they could have. It took them not quite 4 weeks to figure it out, but by then it was too late. Had they kept to their staggered launch plan , losing a few then would have been easier to justify than losing more now. Edited May 28, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[kriegheld]

Personally, I hope they stay away and continue their griefing search for MMO perfection at another community's expense. The mob got what they wanted so here we are. I suppose mommy is at fault for the kids' obesity after giving them the candy they screamed bloody murder for. Bioware's mistake was in thinking they were listening to grownups.

 

At that point, the servers were full. Why don't you use those plump little sausage fingers of yours and explain to us all what happened?

 

Your comments, your sig, all insults. I dare Bioware to stand by your nasty little attitude. I'm sure it will bring people in by the millions.

 

Step out from behind the protection of the Bioware forums and post that nonsense anywhere else on the internet, tell me how it goes.

[GalacticKegger]

At that point, the servers were full. Why don't you use those plump little sausage fingers of yours and explain to us all what happened?

 

Your comments, your sig, all insults. I dare Bioware to stand by your nasty little attitude. I'm sure it will bring people in by the millions.

 

Step out from behind the protection of the Bioware forums and post that nonsense anywhere else on the internet, tell me how it goes.

They were full only because the pop caps were adjusted so low. Edited May 28, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[xandax]

But there wasn't a need for them. It was right out of launch and they hadn't tested the server caps in a live-fire launch environment. There's no way they could have. It took them not quite 4 weeks to figure it out, but by then it was too late. Had the stuck to their staggered launch plan , losing a few then would have been easier to justify than losing many now.

 

You have no idea if that's true. By allowing the people to play the game; they gave themselves the best possibility for attracting and keeping the customers.

Had the population not dwindled as it did - but followed say WoW's explosive growth or just EVEs consistent grow for a time - nobody would sit here now and argue that they should have pushed customers away.

 

It's the apparent lack of contingency plans that's the kicker - not much else. You don't get many people to pay for a service they can't use.

[Dokar]

But there wasn't a need for them. It was right out of launch and they hadn't tested the server caps in a live-fire launch environment. There's no way they could have. It took them not quite 4 weeks to figure it out, but by then it was too late. Had they kept to their staggered launch plan , losing a few then would have been easier to justify than losing more now.

 

You honestly think only a few would have left after spending almost 4 weeks in queues to play what they payed for?

 

This isn't 2004 when there was hardly any competition.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Dokar

[Drakkip]

Neither issue ( 6 hour Q's / dead servers) are the "Customers" fault....

 

Seriously, how the customer can be blamed for BOTH 6 hour Q times AND dead population servers is perplexing. BW is offering a good (or service - depending on how you look at it). When you have customers, you are responsible for supplying them and keeping them more or less happy. When the customer isn't happy how does that become their fault when in reality it is the inability to access what the are here for IS the complaint.

 

Lack of having a plan and/or poor design has nothing to do with anything the customer can physically do to change. A little accountability on the part of the game developer who acutally can you know, assign staff to various features of the project would be where the responsibility lies.

[GalacticKegger]

You have no idea if that's true. By allowing the people to play the game; they gave themselves the best possibility for attracting and keeping the customers.

Had the population not dwindled as it did - but followed say WoW's explosive growth or just EVEs consistent grow for a time - nobody would sit here now and argue that they should have pushed customers away.

 

It's the apparent lack of contingency plans that's the kicker - not much else. You don't get many people to pay for a service they can't use.

Was there from closed beta through now. The intent was to have servers in reserve (plan B) just in case they sold like 5 million ciopies. Plan A was to gradually increase the server caps as the staggered launch progressed. But the early access cries about login queues motivated them to switch to plan B first. That's how it happened. Why it happened (within Bioware's braintrust) is conjecture, and at this point doesn't matter except to maybe shareholders. Edited May 28, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[WrecklessMEDIC]

Was there from closed beta through now. The intent was to have servers in reserve (plan B) just in case they sold like 5 million ciopies. Plan A was to gradually increase the server caps as the staggered launch progressed. But the early access cries about login queues motivated them to switch to plan B first. That's how it happened. Why it happened (within Bioware's braintrust) is conjecture, and at this point doesn't matter except to maybe shareholders.

 

^Exactly!

[GalacticKegger]

You honestly think only a few would have left after spending almost 4 weeks in queues to play what they payed for?

 

This isn't 2004 when there was hardly any competition.

Well, since the concept of few may have been ill-presented on my part ... The game sold well over 1 million copies before launch. So I think trading in 20,000 of those the first few weeks to get it right and save 20x that many after 5 months would have been prudent. But that's just me. Edited May 28, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[xandax]

Was there from closed beta through now. The intent was to have servers in reserve (plan B) just in case they sold like 5 million ciopies. Plan A was to gradually increase the server caps as the staggered launch progressed. But the early access cries about login queues motivated them to switch to plan B first. That's how it happened. Why it happened (within Bioware's braintrust) is conjecture, and at this point doesn't matter except to maybe shareholders.

 

You're not the only one that was there - and when push comes to shove - they have to listen to their paying customers and not to somebody who in hindsight, with the information that the game couldn't retain customers, wanted them to turn away a large part of their paying customers. Better to give people the chance to play in case it turns them into subscribers than forcing them away ensuring they wouldn't be subscribers.

 

They could do nothing else at launch - except have planned for, and made tools ready for, what would happen if the same thing happened to this game, that has happened to many MMOs before it.

That's where Bioware really messed up. That they weren't prepared for this.

[Kaisernick]

If it's payback you're looking for, perhaps you should take it out on early access' petulant nerd ragers that all but forced Bioware to add those 70+ new servers at launch. Had BW ignored them (their fear was repeating Blizzard's debacle with WoW's release) and stuck to their plan instead of graciously giving the mob what it wanted, this wouldn't even be a topic.

^ this