How un-subbing doesn't help population

[Timesjoke]

The slow down of content is due to players wanting to turn SWTOR or any new MMO into a total WoW-clone. Don't fool yourself, this happens to all new MMOs. Adding all that crap that WoW has, takes time. Coding/programming is very complex, then those lines of code have to be tested and debugged. Takes time to do that, but your average teenage MMO player or impatient and ignorant adult will not know that or even care. They want what they want now!

 

Okay, 2 points to make:

 

1. Is it spoiled to want a car with air conditioning? Could I produce a car based on the "model T" design and expect the car buying public in general to all go out and buy it? The point you seem to miss is while there are a few video game players out there who are happy with the "model T" style of video game, most people are not going to be willing to settle for that low tech and bottom end sort of game.

 

2. It does take time to code features but they at the same time do not need to re-invent the wheel, all of these features have been around for many years in various games and it is a lot easier to do now than it was when WoW had to create these tools from scratch. If they are missing the skilled people they need to program these features, then they should go out and hire qualified people instead of stumbling around in the dark while their paying customers leave.

[xeenz]

I just unsubbed. Wanna know why?

- The game isn't fun anymore

- It lacks standard features like chattbubbles, LFG and achievements.

- The levelig is extremely linear, boring and repetive. VO was great for a moment, but it became tiresome and frustrating after a while.

- Too little sandbox elements (I want a free roaming, persistent world with NO LOADING SCREENS.)

- PvP is okay but not good enough (Needs Arenas, Ranked PvP, lacks hugely on OWPvP cause I have never met one single sith on my server, and yes I'm playing on Freedon Nadd (Most populated server in EU).

- Space game sucks balls

- No user generated content (Impossible to make your own fun)

- Classes are almost the same (Was shocked that a couple of spells where the same as my Jedi Guardian on my Jedi Consular. Like push enemy backwards and so on. Litte diversity). Yes you have a whole new story to play through but that's about it.

- No day and night sycles.. what the hell? (Makes the world feel more alive, which it isn't right now.) And I was reading on darth hater that they wont put it in because it would be too much work for them. Talk about lazyness.

- Planets feels dead

- The fleet is boring and horrible in design. And it's instanced too, thats what I hate most.

- Armor design looks awful.

 

I could go on forever...

 

Waiting for Titan to get announced, it will crush all competition! Blizzard has probalby played SWTOR and listed all it's flaws, and they will make sure it won't happen with them. They have much experience in MMO gaming (Just admit it, Blizzard is the king when it comes to MMOs. Just look at WoW. 8 years old and still has 8 million subscribers. It's amazing if you ask me).

[Darkrite]

*Alert! Alert! Alert!* INCOMING TRANSMISSION VIA DROID FA-17-BOT.

 

Transmission Protocol 32-C-A

 

TITLE: SUBSCRIPTION VS. INITIAL PURCHASE

 

BODY: My original purchase was $160.00 for the Collector's Edition. I've played since December, cancelling for a month between that time. So far, in total, I've paid this company $220.00 USD (considering two of 5 months was free). I'd say for the lack of population, service, updates; and for the amount of nerfs, lag, boredom that this game offers to me, I've paid in full and then some.

 

I don't want to see more of my money go toward advertising, empty promises, and inability from developers that can't 'figure it out'.

 

This is the most fail I've seen in a game since Tabula Rasa. NCSoft closed the doors completely on that game. A game I enjoyed. Practices like this from EA, SOE, and NCSoft leave a sour and disgruntled view of MMOs in their customer's mouths. The most successful MMOs are still up and running, still supported in a timely manner, and still communicating vigorously with their communities: UO, DAoC and WoW. All of them mutilated images of their once proud moments, but still up and running, still communicating. Where's the communication on these boards, except for the censorship if you "get out of line"?

 

END OF TRANSMISSION

 

SELF DESTRUCT SEQUENCE INITIATED. ETA: SW:TOR FAI- *BOOM!*

 

Edit: This little droid was sent via time travel (approximately four months), I'm surprised he made it through the entire transmission. There must have been a 'delay of fail' that finally caught up to him within the time/fail paradox just toward the end there. It's a shame he couldn't have lasted a few years...I liked that droid.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Darkrite

[Tenceriker]

 

Waiting for Titan to get announced, it will crush all competition! Blizzard has probalby played SWTOR and listed all it's flaws, and they will make sure it won't happen with them. They have much experience in MMO gaming (Just admit it, Blizzard is the king when it comes to MMOs. Just look at WoW. 8 years old and still has 8 million subscribers. It's amazing if you ask me).

 

Blizzard is just good at copying from other companies not the most innovative but the most adaptive to change. Why other MMO companies don't give players what they want and adapter to their needs is beyond me. Perhaps one day an another MMO studio will get it, one day.

[ChazDoit]

Who cares what MMO is popular in China anyway? xD

[xeenz]

Blizzard is just good at copying from other companies not the most innovative but the most adaptive to change. Why other MMO companies don't give players what they want and adapter to their needs is beyond me. Perhaps one day an another MMO studio will get it, one day.

 

That's why I love their games. They don't reinvent the wheel but they refine and polish the hell of their games.

If you look at Starcraft they took ideas from other games and improved upon it, trying to avoid its flaws. The same goes for WoW. I remember loving the concept of EQ, but WoW just made it look silly in comparison.

 

I don't expect Blizzard to innovate with Titan, but improving what's good and what's bad in WoW, taking ideas from other MMOs and improving the hell out of it!

[Goretzu]

Blizzard is just good at copying from other companies not the most innovative but the most adaptive to change. Why other MMO companies don't give players what they want and adapter to their needs is beyond me. Perhaps one day an another MMO studio will get it, one day.

 

Blizzard is the god of copying, there's hardly a thing in WoW that wasn't done elsewhere first, but Blizzard excell at copying those things at least as well as the orginal, and often better than the orginal.

 

 

However that doesn't mean any new game will be a success, because even if they produce something that has every single thing WoW has....... people will still likely be bored with it as they can't copy themselves.

 

Innovation is the key, whether Blizzard can do that, who knows?

Edited May 29, 2012 by Goretzu

[Suromir]

I seriously hope you're joking.

 

the community is leaving because BioWare is incompetent in fixing issues..including server population.

 

they have well over 100 servers..most of which are ghost towns...and what are they doing? NOTHING....yes yes they have "super servers" or some such in the "works" but it's too damn slow.

 

they already transfered people to the pacific (asia...whatever) servers..so don't give me that "the tech doesn't exist" crap.

 

So it's the OUR (the communities) fault that the BioWare is failing to fix things in a timely manner and is just approaching these issues as if they couldn't care less? tell me you're not that dense...please.

 

we pay to play. we don't enjoy ourselves. we don't pay. we don't play. how is a crappy product the fault of the consumer????

 

you can't be out of highschool yet.

[Vicrodhe]

Blizzard is the god of copying, there's hardly a thing in WoW that wasn't done elsewhere first, but Blizzard excell at copying those things at least as well as the orginal, and often better than the orginal.

 

 

However that doesn't mean any new game will be a success, because even if they produce something that has every single thing WoW has....... people will still likely be bored with it as they can't copy themselves.

 

Innovation is the key, whether Blizzard can do that, who knows?

 

WHAT.? you mean blizzard didn't make the mmo it was copied. /sob I think im gonna cry myself to sleep.

[Deewe]

Go ahead and list the MMOs that had server transfer in place when they were released:

 

1. ____________________________________________

 

2. ____________________________________________

 

3. ____________________________________________

 

4. ____________________________________________

 

5. ____________________________________________

Tera.

[Evironrage]

Are you suggesting that we should continue to support this game and company?

 

Don't blame the smart ones that see the writing on the wall. MMO veterans know exactly what is happening.

 

Sadly this. It is quite apparent that this game was not ready and as such many dyed in the wool MMOers are flocking to other shores. Many games have had similar issues and this one is no different.

[Goretzu]

WHAT.? you mean blizzard didn't make the mmo it was copied. /sob I think im gonna cry myself to sleep.

 

The Universe started with WoW. Just like every generation is the first to invent XXX.

[islander]

Look, before you ask, it's not only Bioware's fault, but the community's. By un-subbing, the population lowers, in which ironically people un-sub about there being low population *Chuckles*. However, this is also bioware's fault by spreading out the community in having too many servers. Just my 2 cents here.

 

Unsubbing tells Bioware with sincerity that they fail. I've done just that.

 

Seriously, leave it to Biofail to promise server transfers in 1.3, yet they need you to fill out a form to get MANUALLY TRANSFERRED to thte PTS.

[islander]

Tera.

 

Guild Wars 2

 

 

RIFT was done within weeks of release, too.

[RocNessMonster]

If it's payback you're looking for, perhaps you should take it out on early access' petulant nerd ragers that all but forced Bioware to add those 70+ new servers at launch. Had BW ignored them (their fear was repeating Blizzard's debacle with WoW's release) and stuck to their plan instead of graciously giving the mob what it wanted, this wouldn't even be a topic.

 

You are so naive on how Corporate America works. Opening new servers just gave the suits something to brag about during shareholder meetings, but just go ahead and keep believing that short-term profits aren't all that matters. Obviously to you, shareholder perception only matters for mergers admitting that their game is shrinking and they would never EVER brag about opening new servers to show how their product has grown.

[Darkrite]

Blizzard is the god of copying, there's hardly a thing in WoW that wasn't done elsewhere first, but Blizzard excell at copying those things at least as well as the orginal, and often better than the orginal.

 

Name one MMO that didn't copy a concept from either fictional book, table top role-playing game, or some mechanic that is in every day use in the real world. I agree with you. They excel and are successful because of it, in copying.

 

Original thought is dead. It's so far gone in fact that to convey your idea as original is laughable to those that know better. Those that don't are either too preoccupied (by those that do) or so uncaring to desire the knowledge that nothing is original; they push the idea that something is copied and that it should be looked down upon for that reason.

 

Blizzard is exactly what a company (both in the real world, and game development) should strive to be when it comes to taking "that which works" and tossing "that which does not work". It's simple.

 

What Blizzard does, that Bioware/EA do not do. Survey their consumers until there's no end to it.

 

Notice polling has been stripped from the forums a while back. Incredibly bad move. That's where they get their progression surveys from.

 

This game is failing because BW/EA doesn't care. The lack of polls showed me that.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Darkrite

[Shayde]

So let me get this straight...

 

We're supposed to KEEP PAYING even if we're not satisfied with the game just to make it better?

 

This is a joke, right?

[Starry]

I just unsubbed. Wanna know why?

- The game isn't fun anymore

- It lacks standard features like chattbubbles, LFG and achievements.

- The levelig is extremely linear, boring and repetive. VO was great for a moment, but it became tiresome and frustrating after a while.

- Too little sandbox elements (I want a free roaming, persistent world with NO LOADING SCREENS.)

- PvP is okay but not good enough (Needs Arenas, Ranked PvP, lacks hugely on OWPvP cause I have never met one single sith on my server, and yes I'm playing on Freedon Nadd (Most populated server in EU).

- Space game sucks balls

- No user generated content (Impossible to make your own fun)

- Classes are almost the same (Was shocked that a couple of spells where the same as my Jedi Guardian on my Jedi Consular. Like push enemy backwards and so on. Litte diversity). Yes you have a whole new story to play through but that's about it.

- No day and night sycles.. what the hell? (Makes the world feel more alive, which it isn't right now.) And I was reading on darth hater that they wont put it in because it would be too much work for them. Talk about lazyness.

- Planets feels dead

- The fleet is boring and horrible in design. And it's instanced too, thats what I hate most.

- Armor design looks awful.

 

I could go on forever...

 

I could go on...

 

- No housing (can't even decorate ships)

- No robust crafting with a strong player/server economy

- No mini-games

- No appearance tabs with appearance clothing

- No dye kits

- Not able to even sit on a cantina bar stool

- No dual/triple spec ability

- No NPC 'barber'

 

While I am still enjoying the game for now, I am amazed on what SWTOR doesn't have, especially considering the $200+ million invested in its development. There is precious little in the game to foster a real sense of community that would have helped player retention.

 

Will Bioware step up and get this game on track? We shall see. Going F2P won't fix what ails it - it will just cost players more to make the game play the way it should have to begin with.

[Goretzu]

Name one MMO that didn't copy a concept from either fictional book, table top role-playing game, or some mechanic that is in every day use in the real world. I agree with you. They excel and are successful because of it, in copying.

 

Original thought is dead. It's so far gone in fact that to convey your idea as original is laughable to those that know better. Those that don't are either too preoccupied (by those that do) or so uncaring to desire the knowledge that nothing is original; they push the idea that something is copied and that it should be looked down upon for that reason.

 

Nothing is ever orginal (do you know when the see through mini-skirt was invented? About 2500 years earlier than you might imagine! ).

 

However that's not to say EQ1 wasn't ground breaking (or UO before it), where as WoW was basically just EQ1-lite.

 

But pretty much everything WoW has was nicked from somewhere else, WAR is a good example, within 6 months WoW had copied most of the successful innovations of WAR.

 

Blizzard are very, very good at that, but not so great at innovating.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Goretzu

[Evironrage]

Guild Wars 2

 

 

RIFT was done within weeks of release, too.

 

RIFT stayed afloat for roughly 5months. After that the pop declined quickly and down to it's current state. It is pretty steady now I do believe with somewhere in the neighborhood of 250k subbers? Don't quote me on that, but pretty sure that close to right, which frankly if condensed to just 10-12servers isn't bad.

[TheronFett]

The first thing that crossed my mind when reading this topic was: well...duh! People quitting the game is obviously going to cause a decrease in server population. Cause and effect.

 

You can't honestly blame the players who are unsatisfied with the product. I imagine when 1.6 or even 2.0 finally hits, the game will be at a point where it should've been at launch. Most MMOs are launched too soon in an unfinished state, and many early players often feel they are paying to play a beta game. Nothing new there. Some will eventually return when their expectations are met, others will move on to other games.

 

The major problem here is that TOR is on rails, in the worst way imaginable. It plays like a single-player title. No LFG tool, no cross-server anything, and server transfers should've been implemented 2 months ago. Empty servers + slow development cycle = loss of subscriptions. To the tune of 400,000 and climbing every day. Players will not pay for an MMO that does not support the multiplayer aspect of online gaming. Period.

Edited May 29, 2012 by TheronFett

[xandax]

Actually he/she makes a good point and so do you to an extent.

 

The fact is that generally a customer doesn't know what they want even if they think they do.

<snip>

Customers very much know what they want; which is why they leave in droves when not getting it.

And just to be pre-emptive.... that does not mean they'll only like what they want or can't start to like or want other things.

 

<snip>

They know what they like and don't like but most can't articulate that well enough for video games companies to actually implement it right and even if they do then somebody else will probably want it done differently.

<snip>

Most can articulate it quite well, but naturally somebody else wants something different because that somebody else likes something different. You can't please everybody at once. Limited resources and contrary preferences.

 

 

<snip>

Also, for every person who is complaining on the forums they don't like something, there are 100 people who never even bother to visit the forums because they are satisfied with the way it currently behaves. How does the company know that the vocal minority shouting about something on their forums represents the wider population?

<snip>

Ahh yes - the silent majority.

Just like there are 100 people who never bother to visit the forum that likes the game; there are a 100 people who never visit the forum but are just quitting the game silently as their subs run out.

Don't mistake the non-forum-complaining people for 'satisfied' customers by default. That non-forum group also includes dissatisfied customers.

Especially do not make that mistake in a game where the population decreasing rather rapidly it seems.

 

And the company basically can only listen to the feedback - so if not formulating feedback whether negative or positive - chances are you're never heard. Even if a satisfied customers playing the game.

Edited May 29, 2012 by xandax

[Lurchy]

Having very low pop caps and therefore creating way too many servers at launch ensured that they were able to brag about how "SWTOR has had one of the smoothest launches in MMO history"

 

Unfortunately, it does not matter how well a ship is launched, if when you spot that big old iceberg directly in front of you it is the first moment that you realise that you forgot to attach a rudder to the ship.

[GalacticKegger]

You are so naive on how Corporate America works. Opening new servers just gave the suits something to brag about during shareholder meetings, but just go ahead and keep believing that short-term profits aren't all that matters. Obviously to you, shareholder perception only matters for mergers admitting that their game is shrinking and they would never EVER brag about opening new servers to show how their product has grown.

I wish I was naive on how Corporate America works - I'd sleep a lot easier at night were that the case. But thank you for the conspiracy theory assumption, the comic relief went well with my morning coffee. I've been playing & testing this game since closed beta, which predates your ... nvm. I'll put a sock in it.

 

Bioware was taking hits from the press (and even these forums) for their "staggered launch" plan because that wasn't how Blizz did it, that wasn't how Turbine did it, that wasn't how Cryptic did it, etc. It was a different approach that was months in planning. They wanted to slowly ramp up the server caps with the population increases, knowing they'd be cutting it close but also knowing that they'd have it under control within a month. Which they did.

 

IMHO BW should have stuck with that plan. The only Corporate America spins you speak of are happening right now from the fallout. Bioware listened, they affected the change in the exact manner it's loudest community members wanted, and now - here we are. Frankly, I'm surprised they are communicating anything tangible after what happened. No good deed goes unpunished.

Edited May 29, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Dokar]

I wish I was naive on how Corporate America works - I'd sleep a lot easier at night were that the case. But thank you for the conspiracy theory assumption, the comic relief went well with my morning coffee. I've been playing & testing this game since closed beta, which predates your ... nvm. I'll put a sock in it.

 

Bioware was taking hits from the press (and even these forums) for their "staggered launch" plan because that wasn't how Blizz did it, that wasn't how Turbine did it, that wasn't how Cryptic did it, etc. It was a different approach that was months in planning. They wanted to slowly ramp up the server caps with the population increases, knowing they'd be cutting it close but also knowing that they'd have it under control within a month. Which they did.

 

IMHO BW should have stuck with that plan. The only Corporate America spins you speak of are happening right now from the fallout. Frankly, I'm surprised they are communicating anything tangible after what happened.

 

You assume that it wouldn't have cost more subs. People who leave becasue they have to wait hours for warzones are also going to leave if they have to wait hours to play at all for something they have paid for.