John Riccitiello - "Realistically, TOR's a solid success."

[TUXs]

Sorry if this has been posted already, didn't see it. Search brought up nothing.

 

Source

 

Basically, TOR never was to be a "bellwether" for the company. Which actually makes sense.

 

What do you think?

 

I hadn't seen that, but it makes perfect sense. All the "big" titles are cross platform games. Madden takes about 2-hours of updates a year and a photo op with the new cover guy. In my house, we have Madden 2009, 2010, 2011 and previous years for xbox - it's a yearly purchase, just like the xbox gold accounts. Soccer may blow in the US, but internationally, FIFA has more of a draw than Madden does tbh. Again, XBOX, PC, PS2, PS3, PSVita, DS, Wii vs. SWTOR on PC only.

 

While this isn't "great", it's perfectly logical...and I'm no SWTOR fanboi...it's just understandable from a business perspective.

[Astarica]

The common quoted figures (from various news sources) for SWTOR is $100 million to develop.

 

The numbrers said sub declined from 1.7 million to 1.4 million, so we'll assume there are 1.7 million box sales at $50, and each subscriber paid for one month at $15/month.

 

65 * 1.7 million = $110.5 millon. Yes not all box sale is pure profit (though digital sales are pure profit) and so on, but if someone asks you to invest $100 million and you'll *only* get an extra $10 million from your base investment back after one month I'd consider this a very good deal. It might not be an impressive ROI (the game took 6 years to develop) but then I'm calculating assuming the game is basically going to die after one month too.

 

Now of course in Wall Street a game is judged on expectations. The figures say EA lost like $600 million/year so maybe they thought SWTOR is going to be a cash cow kind of like how WoW's $1 billion/year revenue covers for other game's development costs + flops. Well SWTOR probably isn't going to be the cash cow and no SWTOR developer will be swimming in money anytime soon. So yes SWTOR might be far below expectations in this respect. But if you assume SWTOR eventually turns a revenue of $200 million by the end of the year, and the game took 6 years in development, that's a return of 12% per year which is a pretty darn good investment.

 

To use an analogy, SWTOR would be a guy in the family making a decent income, but his brother took all the money he made and waste it on gambling, and overall the family is in bad shape, and people are saying, 'well if the productive guy in the family made ten times more money they'd be able to afford to waste 90% of it on gambling and still have a money bin to swim in."

[Kourage]

This is the No Spin Zone.

That's a load of bull.

 

Ask Lucas Arts what they think!

Edited May 23, 2012 by Kourage

[Kthx]

They also originally said they planned to take on WOW, he's putting a positive spin on a less than hoped for outcome

 

Quote?

[Kthx]

The common quoted figures (from various news sources) for SWTOR is $100 million to develop.

 

The numbrers said sub declined from 1.7 million to 1.4 million, so we'll assume there are 1.7 million box sales at $50, and each subscriber paid for one month at $15/month.

 

65 * 1.7 million = $110.5 millon. Yes not all box sale is pure profit (though digital sales are pure profit) and so on

 

Sales were 2.4 million (this is in the Q4 2012 earnings statement). However, even on digital sales you have costs, particularly licensing fees to Lucasart. Substantially your numbers are correct though, in that EA has already has a positive ROI.

[Astarica]

Every serious MMORPG plans to take on WoW. The guys who go out and say, "We come in peace WoW, please don't hurt us" are pretty much already dead. WoW only has around 5 million guys paying $15/month (Asian guys pay way less), so if your game pulls 1 million+ subscribers at $15/month you're definitely going to get WoW"s attention whether you want it or not so you better get ready to fight WoW. Whether you'll be successful or not, who knows, but nobody should start a major MMORPG planning for failure.

 

And honestly WoW's hurting too if you look at their numbers. It seems like all the new MMORPGs do is mutually wipe each other out. People are leaving SWTOR but people are leaving WOW too.

[JeramieCrowe]

I hadn't seen that, but it makes perfect sense. All the "big" titles are cross platform games. Madden takes about 2-hours of updates a year and a photo op with the new cover guy. In my house, we have Madden 2009, 2010, 2011 and previous years for xbox - it's a yearly purchase, just like the xbox gold accounts. Soccer may blow in the US, but internationally, FIFA has more of a draw than Madden does tbh. Again, XBOX, PC, PS2, PS3, PSVita, DS, Wii vs. SWTOR on PC only.

 

While this isn't "great", it's perfectly logical...and I'm no SWTOR fanboi...it's just understandable from a business perspective.

 

Yep. Considering that BF3 and FIFA each sold over 10 million copies, it's plain to see their priorities.

[Astarica]

Sales were 2.4 million (this is in the Q4 2012 earnings statement). However, even on digital sales you have costs, particularly licensing fees to Lucasart. Substantially your numbers are correct though, in that EA has already has a positive ROI.

 

I think people originally thought SWTOR was going to be like WoW that has maybe 10000% ROI (wouldn't be surprised if it made $10 billion from its $100 million budget) and found out that maybe it's only going to be 100% ROI ($100 million to $200 million). But I'll take double my money even if it's not quite good as getting 100 times my money.

[Mindsplitter]

SWTOR is a financial success. They will have made all their money back by the end of the year. Bioware is doing what the community wants albeit at a slower pace then desired. Right now the top 3 gripes are

 

Server pop

cant find a group

cant find an op

cant get into a WZ

etc.

 

thats about to basically be fixed, with 1.4 coming with lots of content. People don't hate the core game, those people left and SWTOR still had 1.7 million. No reason to think that people wont come back and the game can't have a million by the end of the year. It's still a new MMO. And yeah, ppl will have their gripes with guild wars 2 as well.

 

Very few people that left will ever come back once they invest time into another, better, game. It's that simple. Plus, every lose hurts the server population more, making it more likely they will have even more people un-sub. Just the way it is. If my wife didn't want to play this game, I'd be gone. And I will be gone as soon as Guild Wars 2 comes out anyway. This game is a great single player game. Worth the money, but hardly a good MMO.

[Astarica]

Yep. Considering that BF3 and FIFA each sold over 10 million copies, it's plain to see their priorities.

 

Actually paying $15/month X 12 = $180/year which is about the cost of 3 games, so a MMORPG with 1/10th the population can net roughly the same as a standard game if it lasted 3 years.

 

Now for the EA sports game, they're basicaly a MMORPG that costs $5/month for an yearly roster update, you can't really compete against that!

[Phlem]

That is a flat out lie, they were anticipating 8-10 million subs at release and they barely broke 2 million. 1-2 million subs were barely enough to cover the development costs.

[Stenrik]

That is a flat out lie, they were anticipating 8-10 million subs at release and they barely broke 2 million. 1-2 million subs were barely enough to cover the development costs.

 

They were anticipating that many? Really?

I thought they were anticipating like... 1.2 million. Or at least, that's what they told investors before it released...

[TUXs]

Yep. Considering that BF3 and FIFA each sold over 10 million copies, it's plain to see their priorities.

 

Right, but even selling 10 million games, those games are so simple to update these days that I bet you and I could do it (not BF, that's probably slightly more more intensive). Think about the current ROI for Madden and FIFA alone - it has to be mind blowing. A few tweaks to the engine, updated rosters, maybe a new stadium every year.

 

So while those may be "investor" and "profit" priorities, that doesn't mean they would willfully neglect SWTOR because of them. I can only assume that there's no chance in hell that Madden or FIFA needs a staff of 600 employees to develop/update (600 was the last # of employees at Bioware Austin I saw), even when they completely re-do the game engines. Those titles are MASSIVE $ cows.

 

SWTOR may not have the current ability to compete with the cross platform console games, but...even a game like SWG was making money 8 years after development, with a skeleton crew.

 

Bottom line, I don't think the statement was made to dis SWTOR as much as it was to say to investors "guys, SWTOR is a drop in the bucket for us, don't freak out, we'll still make $".

[-Kraxis-]

Here's what I think:

 

Doctors Ray Muzyka, Greg Zeschuk are sell outs and they are the ones to blame, at the core.

 

I knew Bioware was OVER when Ray came out and said "I personally believe Mass Effect 3 is the best work we've yet created" (Baldurs Gate is the best work they've done, NO MATTER WHAT LIES AND BS RAY SPOUTS)

 

Sell outs. Total sell outs. Their passion is for money, not for great games.

 

How could they be so stupid to see that Bioware was a PREMIER (one of the BEST) development company, pre-EA...? WHY DID THEY MESS WITH SOMETHING THAT WASN'T BROKEN IN THE FIRST PLACE?! WHY INVOLVE BIOWARE WITH ELECTRONIC ARTS; "The place great studios go to die"

 

Answer: Greed

 

I mean really... were they hard up for cash? THEY ARE DOCTORS, they have the credentials to become upper class easily, so it wasn't about living comfortably.

 

It was about GREED and selling out.

 

SWTOR would have been great, if Bioware negotiated it out from under EA, and they could have...

 

Greed destroys... EVERYTHING!

 

That's what I think.

Edited May 23, 2012 by -Kraxis-

[Jamus_Divinus]

That is a flat out lie, they were anticipating 8-10 million subs at release and they barely broke 2 million. 1-2 million subs were barely enough to cover the development costs.

 

Making stuff up is fun but maybe you should be more subtle about it. What you just wrote is too obviously a lie.

 

Learn to blend and bend the truth...not shatter it completely

Edited May 23, 2012 by Jamus_Divinus

[ShadowOfVey]

Unfortunately the main feeling I get from this is "SWTOR has made some money, might not make as much as we hoped but it did alright." and then on to bigger and better things that matter, since this game doesn't.

 

 

I don't get any feeling of urgency whatsoever to address community issues or even communicate period. Like they've thrown in the towel and will now just operate in maintenance mode and maybe an update once in a while...when they feel like it.

[TUXs]

I don't get any feeling of urgency whatsoever to address community issues or even communicate period. Like they've thrown in the towel and will now just operate in maintenance mode and maybe an update once in a while...when they feel like it.

 

Neither do I, and that's one of my main complaints...not set-backs, not delays, not ranked WZ's...it's that I don't feel like Bioware is even aware of what WE want from this game.

 

If any good can come from today's events, I hope it's a renewed sense of urgency....because this game is no longer in "development", it's a LIVE game and efforts need to be doubled...or tripled.

[JeramieCrowe]

Unfortunately the main feeling I get from this is "SWTOR has made some money, might not make as much as we hoped but it did alright." and then on to bigger and better things that matter, since this game doesn't.

 

 

I don't get any feeling of urgency whatsoever to address community issues or even communicate period. Like they've thrown in the towel and will now just operate in maintenance mode and maybe an update once in a while...when they feel like it.

 

I suppose it's only up to EA to watch the bottom line and restructure when necessary (like now). Addressing community issues is outside the scope of EA's involvement. That part's up to BioWare.

[Kubernetic]

Sorry if this has been posted already, didn't see it. Search brought up nothing.

 

Source

 

Basically, TOR never was to be a "bellwether" for the company. Which actually makes sense.

 

What do you think?

 

It all makes perfect sense to me. All you have to do is look at EA's record of sales for games to realize this thing was never going to compete with their top games.

 

With old classic franchises like PGA Tour, Madden, NBA Live and the like for SO many years running, to expect that a brand new MMO, even Star Wars, was going to come in and become the big daddy of all of them was just an off-base expectation.

 

As long as they let BioWare run with it and don't gut the development teams or start making demands, I'm just fine with EA saying whatever the hell it wants to say. Who cares?

[AFKGCWBOT]

Unfortunately the main feeling I get from this is "SWTOR has made some money, might not make as much as we hoped but it did alright." and then on to bigger and better things that matter, since this game doesn't.

 

 

I don't get any feeling of urgency whatsoever to address community issues or even communicate period. Like they've thrown in the towel and will now just operate in maintenance mode and maybe an update once in a while...when they feel like it.

Yeah but EA doesn't do the developing, Bioware does. What is EA's involvement in this? I don't understand.

[Kourage]

That is a flat out lie, they were anticipating 8-10 million subs at release and they barely broke 2 million. 1-2 million subs were barely enough to cover the development costs.

 

Did you write that with a straight face?

[Spectus]

They also originally said they planned to take on WOW, he's putting a positive spin on a less than hoped for outcome

I don't recall ever seeing BW saying this. EVERY projection I ever saw was that their goal was a million subscribers, with their break-even point at 500k.

[JeramieCrowe]

That is a flat out lie, they were anticipating 8-10 million subs at release and they barely broke 2 million. 1-2 million subs were barely enough to cover the development costs.

 

Incorrect. They're anticipating up to 10 million in 10 years, was what he said. Not at launch. That's impossible.

[Imadian]

Sorry if this has been posted already, didn't see it. Search brought up nothing.

 

 

 

Source

 

Basically, TOR never was to be a "bellwether" for the company. Which actually makes sense.

 

What do you think?

 

I needed a good laugh, thanks.

[Celebrus]

Sorry if this has been posted already, didn't see it. Search brought up nothing.

 

 

 

Source

 

Basically, TOR never was to be a "bellwether" for the company. Which actually makes sense.

 

What do you think?

 

Ok, so, my turn.

 

Realistically, a dog is a cat.

 

Did I do that right?