SWTOR: Lacking in appeal for the casual gamer?

[Darth_Vampirius]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-08-ea-blames-star-wars-the-old-republic-subscribers-fall-on-casuals-leaving-game

 

Upon reading this, I became a little disenfranchised with the way management is treating SWTOR. As a company, any business that involves customers should take the stance not to blame customers, ever. When you blame the consumer, you end up with a dead product.

 

Moreover, I do believe that SWTOR needs more features to appeal to casual MMO players. An MMO is a hard thing to make. You need to appeal to a wide audience, from most casual to most hardcore. The wider the appeal, the more popular the game will be. What do you guys think of this?

[Yakito]

And here I thought that this was a game for casuals and the hardcore players were the ones to leave.

My whole guild full of hardcore players was gone, and then we got some more hardcore players, few weeks later - also gone.

 

All I see sticking to the game are casuals.

[mattgyver]

Yeah, I'm having trouble understanding this one as well.

[Jandi]

This is the most casual MMO of this type ever made. The fact that people still think it's not casual friendly proves the point that pandering to them is a waste of time, they will never be happy with anything and thus should be completely ignored and instead, go with the original vision of the developers.

[Darth_Vampirius]

This is the most casual MMO of this type ever made. The fact that people still think it's not casual friendly proves the point that pandering to them is a waste of time, they will never be happy with anything and thus should be completely ignored and instead, go with the original vision of the developers.

 

You never played WOW or Guild Wars, or Rift, did you?

[Varteras]

Yeah I'm also not understanding this article. I've always had the impression that this game was far more aimed at the casual player. It certainly doesn't seem to be designed for hardcore PvPers and Raiders. Edited May 9, 2012 by Varteras

[Drudenfusz]

Most players I have seen gone were not satisfied with how casual the game was, sure I have also seen casuals go, but it felt like mostly to hardcore gamers have left.

[Anomorn]

Hardcore content turns casual players into hardcore players. This is why WoW exploded. Hardcore means learning curve. Once you learn the game it's easy to do the "hardcore" stuff on a casual basis.

 

Moreover, when a casual player sees a hardcore player in the best gear in the game riding around on an awesome raid mount, he or she is likely to say "I want that."

Edited May 9, 2012 by Anomorn

[Sotof]

Some of the features that would have been perfect for casuals were somehow put into the game in a way that they will be mostly inaccessible to them in the long run (legacy, appearance customization, etc.). That's what I think mostly puts Rift and WoW above SWTOR in casual-friendliness.

[Darth_Vampirius]

Hardcore content turns casual players into hardcore players. This is why WoW exploded. Hardcore means learning curve. Once you learn the game it's easy to do the "hardcore" stuff on a casual basis.

 

Moreover, when a casual player sees a hardcore player in the best gear in the game riding around on an awesome raid mount, he or she is likely to say "I want that."

 

False.

[Gerandar]

The lack of good endgame is what killed it for my guild. and the pvp is bleh at best :\

[Blistrich]

Imo, this game appeals almost exclusively to casual players.

 

"Hardcores" don't play this game. If they do, they're idiots (not that they aren't anyway... games are supposed to fun, not something that defines you as a person).

 

The "hardcore" games are that way → (Mortal Online... DIE DIE DIE!)

[Zannis]

I think you guys are confusing the term 'casual' used in the conference call with how we, the player population, use the term.

 

They were simply referring to people who canceled after their first month as casual. It makes no assumptions about their in game activities.

 

For all we know, it could have been 'hardcore' players who cancelled, unhappy with the game itself.

[Darth_Vampirius]

In WOW you can log in and do a raid on your lunch break. You can do up to 4 dungeons.

 

Guid Wars you can log in and have a max level character in a few seconds... do a few battles on your lunch, and log out.

 

These are the games we compare SWTOR, and you are saying SWTOR is more casual? How so? This past weekend I ran the Esseles. It took an hour. I wanted to do a quick run before work. I was almost late.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Sireene
reply to removed post

[Tahana]

@OP

 

Define Casual please.. There are several MMO definitions of a casual player and of any of them the only one I would agree with is :

 

A player who logs in and plays approximately 5 hours a week or less.

 

Because other people have definitions of casual as meaning if you are not on the cutting edge of progression you are a casual. Others will state that if you play as many hours in a week as I do that you are hard core. (FYI I play 2 to 3 hours a night and 4 to 8 hours a day on the weekends).. Also I do raid but have not done nightmare content.

 

So define casual in the context of that article and your question.

[Staavis_SC]

My feelings are that some casual gamers probably get a very "non-casual" feeling from the game, due to some of the design choices that have been made.

 

For example:

 

1. Costs: This is a big one. There is massive cost attached to EVERYTHING, which gives the game the feeling of being a grinder. Think about the costs associated with:

 

• Training
  
• Speeders / Speeder Training
  
• Crafting Training
  
• Repairs
  
• Mod Removal on Orange Armor
  
• Inventory / Bank Slot Increase
  
• Legacy Unlocks
  

 

You start adding up those costs for someone who isn't out farming crafting materials for the GTN, or farming credits and trash loot to sell, and pretty quickly, it becomes more of a chore to enjoy this game than it needs to be. In several of these instances, other games give these sorts of perks and transactions to players for free. For a casual player that only plays 1-2 hours a day, or maybe 5-8 hours in a week, the costs associated with basic gameplay function can severely damper character progress, or at the least, the fun you have while trying to progress.

 

2. Solo-Leveling: While Levels 1-25 can be solo'd pretty easily, as you get past Chapter 1, the difficulty of leveling increases substantially. Silver mobs start hitting like Mack trucks, and Golds start hitting like the Incredible Hulk. For a casual player, that may not have a complete grasp on their character's optimal operation, this can make leveling a frustrating task in short order, that even gear can't overcome. I play a Jedi Guardian (DPS Spec) as my main, and in general I am about 1-3 levels over the mobs I am fighting currently. Yet, if I don't have my pocket healer out, those mobs will rip me apart. How is it any fun to get torn apart as a Level 41, by mobs that are Level 38?

 

3. Flashpoint / Group content access: As of right now, this is very "casual unfriendly" because of the lack of an LFG tool, and thereby necessitates that a person be in a guild in order to do this content, especially on low-pop servers. I am fully aware that Bioware has plans for the LFG tool, but that isn't the point. Right now, in the current Live client, there is no LFG tool, and this is a major hinderance to casual players.

 

-----------------------

 

Considering these 3 topics, I can totally believe that casuals would not hesitate to leave this game.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Staavis_SC

[Darth_Vampirius]

@OP

 

Define Casual please.. There are several MMO definitions of a casual player and of any of them the only one I would agree with is :

 

A player who logs in and plays approximately 5 hours a week or less.

 

Because other people have definitions of casual as meaning if you are not on the cutting edge of progression you are a casual. Others will state that if you play as many hours in a week as I do that you are hard core. (FYI I play 2 to 3 hours a night and 4 to 8 hours a day on the weekends).. Also I do raid but have not done nightmare content.

 

So define casual in the context of that article and your question.

Casual Games: Games that allow you to do meaningful PVE and PVP content on your lunch break.

[Darkhosis]

The main appeal of this game is to the casual... The problem is there isn't much you can do to develop your character past 50 as a casual without becoming a non-casual.

[Theology]

The thing is; Casuals dont wan't to play this game, and Hardcores don't want to play this game.

 

So who is left?

 

Roleplayers.

 

Which explains why the RP servers have the healthiest populations of them all.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Theology

[lokivoid]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-08-ea-blames-star-wars-the-old-republic-subscribers-fall-on-casuals-leaving-game

 

Upon reading this, I became a little disenfranchised with the way management is treating SWTOR. As a company, any business that involves customers should take the stance not to blame customers, ever. When you blame the consumer, you end up with a dead product.

 

Moreover, I do believe that SWTOR needs more features to appeal to casual MMO players. An MMO is a hard thing to make. You need to appeal to a wide audience, from most casual to most hardcore. The wider the appeal, the more popular the game will be. What do you guys think of this?

 

Lacks appeal to casuals? it also lacks appeal to "hardcore" players.

 

the lack of appeal is caused by the fact that its designed like a single player game with large speed bumps in a attempt to expand on its linear gameplay. This is not something that can be fixed at this point of development as it would require a complete rebuild from the ground up.

[Darth_Vampirius]

My feelings are that some casual gamers probably get a very "non-casual" feeling from the game, due to some of the design choices that have been made.

 

For example:

 

1. Costs: This is a big one. There is massive cost attached to EVERYTHING, which gives the game the feeling of being a grinder. Think about the costs associated with:

 

• Training
  
• Speeders / Speeder Training
  
• Crafting Training
  
• Repairs
  
• Mod Removal on Orange Armor
  
• Inventory / Bank Slot Increase
  
• Legacy Unlocks
  

 

You start adding up those costs for someone who isn't out farming crafting materials for the GTN, or farming credits and trash loot to sell, and pretty quickly, it becomes more of a chore to enjoy this game than it needs to be. In several of these instances, other games give these sorts of perks and transactions to players for free. For a casual player that only plays 1-2 hours a day, or maybe 5-8 hours in a week, the costs associated with basic gameplay function can severely damper character progress, or at the least, the fun you have while trying to progress.

 

2. Solo-Leveling: While Levels 1-25 can be solo'd pretty easily, as you get past Chapter 1, the difficulty of leveling increases substantially. Silver mobs start hitting like Mack trucks, and Golds start hitting like the Incredible Hulk. For a casual player, that may not have a complete grasp on their character's optimal operation, this can make leveling a frustrating task in short order, that even gear can't overcome. I play a Jedi Guardian (DPS Spec) as my main, and in general I am about 1-3 levels over the mobs I am fighting currently. Yet, if I don't have my pocket healer out, those mobs will rip me apart. How is it any fun to get torn apart as a Level 41, by mobs that are Level 38?

 

3. Flashpoint / Group content access: As of right now, this is very "casual unfriendly" because of the lack of an LFG tool, and thereby necessitates that a person be in a guild in order to do this content, especially on low-pop servers. I am fully aware that Bioware has plans for the LFG tool, but that isn't the point. Right now, in the current Live client, there is no LFG tool, and this is a major hinderance to casual players.

 

-----------------------

 

Considering these 3 topics, I can totally believe that casuals would not hesitate to leave this game.

Excellent post! I couldn't have put it better myself.

[Blistrich]

Which explains why the RP servers have the healthiest populations of them all.

The three largest servers are Fatman (PvP), Jedi Covenant (PvE) and Harbinger (PvE).

Edited May 10, 2012 by Sireene
rude - recently warned, no action

[RachelAnne]

In WOW you can log in and do a raid on your lunch break. You can do up to 4 dungeons.

 

Guid Wars you can log in and have a max level character in a few seconds... do a few battles on your lunch, and log out.

 

These are the games we compare SWTOR, and you are saying SWTOR is more casual? How so? This past weekend I ran the Esseles. It took an hour. I wanted to do a quick run before work. I was almost late.

 

I left wow when I turned into a casual, because I didnt feel the casual game that you speak about.

 

Casual does not mean dumb btw. Casual is more a factor that indicates that someone cant play every day, wont read every guide and also wont always have the best items in a game. I sometimes have gaps of a few weeks where I cant play at all, with that I was lost at wow.

 

If you dont play a while, the demands even for old content double or triple.

 

I went into heroic 5 mens after a break on my second char, those dungeons we did clear 1 week after release easily with greens and blues. Guess what happened, people raged at the gear, raged at no achivements...simply put they did not accept it! They did also not accept the round about 12k dps of a friend, who did as well clear every hc with me. No what they did demand were 20k dps, the ability to outheal noobish dps that stands in fire...

 

Yes wow is a easy game, you dont need much for it - but the lack of skill that you need, does the community of elitist´s add and thats hardcore and nothing less. Casuals have absolutely no time, especially if you use the LFG tool. People hear "new", see "not full epics", no achivements and they rage at you - no casual does want that torture and because of that so many casuals left wow.

 

A new player who joins wow is put infront of lions, that dont give him any chance to learn or discover. Even at simple lvl dungeons you are treaten like **** at wow...

 

SWTOR is definately better there, but who knows what the LFG tool and dps meters will turn it into.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Sireene
quote of edited post

[Theology]

The three largest servers are Fatman (PvP), Jedi Covenant (PvE) and Harbinger (PvE).

 

I meant % wise as opposed to the non-RP servers.

 

Can't site my source as it was in another thread and I don't remember which one.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Sireene
reply to edited post

[Jandi]

In WOW you can log in and do a raid on your lunch break. You can do up to 4 dungeons.

 

Guid Wars you can log in and have a max level character in a few seconds... do a few battles on your lunch, and log out.

 

These are the games we compare SWTOR, and you are saying SWTOR is more casual? How so? This past weekend I ran the Esseles. It took an hour. I wanted to do a quick run before work. I was almost late.

 

EV on normal takes roughly an hour if you don't wipe on every boss 6 times. The only reason esseles takes long is if you watch the cutscenes, that's not an hour of gameplay. FE is the longest FP in the game. You can almost do both EV and KP if you're running with a competent team in the same time it takes to clear it, maybe 30min more.

 

Guild Wars isn't any more an MMO than Diablo is. It's simply a multiplayer game, even the devs themselves don't classify it as such. As for WoW I stopped playing it shortly after Cata came out because it had turned into an online adventure game, not an RPG. WoW is bleeding subs and for a good reason.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Sireene
quote of edited post