SWTOR: Lacking in appeal for the casual gamer?

[juleanden]

Casual Games: Games that allow you to do meaningful PVE and PVP content on your lunch break.

 

so if it aint meaningful acording to you it is not for casuals ? ....

[Criosdh]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-08-ea-blames-star-wars-the-old-republic-subscribers-fall-on-casuals-leaving-game

 

Upon reading this, I became a little disenfranchised with the way management is treating SWTOR. As a company, any business that involves customers should take the stance not to blame customers, ever. When you blame the consumer, you end up with a dead product.

 

Moreover, I do believe that SWTOR needs more features to appeal to casual MMO players. An MMO is a hard thing to make. You need to appeal to a wide audience, from most casual to most hardcore. The wider the appeal, the more popular the game will be. What do you guys think of this?

 

I agree with you 100%. But instead of coming out with content that 90% of the population can use BioWare will do just like every other MMO and continue to release dedicated raiding guild only content like advanced flaspoints or ops and people will continue to leave in droves.

 

Why MMO developers can't get it in their head they can't out epic raid WoW is beyond me. Epic raiders will always prefer that game. Too many of the recent games are missing the little things like customizable mounts/vehicles, housing, etc. These things keep people occupied and occupied people stay subscribed.

[jarjarloves]

what is a casual player? Is your definition the same as Biowares?

[haliy]

Just look for like minded players and even a guild that won't jump all over you because you actually have a life, they do exist I swear. I only play a couple of hours a night and I will never join a guild that demands that I be there on their schedule.

 

I will agree with you that they exist. I know this to be true because my guild current guild is exactly just that. A guild that won't jump all over you because you actually have a life. Says so in part of our description too. "We realize that everyone has a life outside the game and you should live it. We play for the enjoyment of the game and just to take a break from the real world." So yes, we do exist out there.

 

Casuals. They still have viable skills and can hold their own in a fair fight. They excel in team environments but have zero tolerance for attitudes. Their perfectionist edge is gone because achieving perfection in a game became pointless. They bask in the heat of battle but have no desire to fight an entire war. They play to win - just not at all costs. Mosquitos won't bite them out of respect. When they pat you on the back, you can add it to your resumé. And when they drink, they drink Dos Equis. Stay thirsty my friends . . .

 

Absolutely love this!

[Lasse_B]

Casual gamers are not people who only got a couple of hours per week to spend playing games. Casual gamers are more like raiders. They come in vast numbers, take a game apart with their ************ and moaning, then storm off to pillage elsewhere (= other new or casual friendly games) after a short while no matter what.

 

In the first couple of months of the lifespan of a game, casuals are the vocal majority of that game's community. They make suggestions centered specifically around their own point of view, ignoring the bigger picture. Since the casuals are so vocal, devs listen to them since they think the made suggestions are what most players want, then go and implement some of these suggestions.

 

What nobody seems to be taking into account is that since these casual players will wander off sooner rather than later, they don't really help pay the upkeep of a game. That's what the so called hardcore gamers do, who up to this point have been mostly ignored. Developers then have a hard time coming up with enough content to satisfy the hardcore crowd. "Too little, too late". So a couple of months after the casuals have left, a lot of hardcore players will leave, too. The kind of people who would have stayed if there was some diversity during the end game.

 

With all of this in mind I frankly don't get why developers and publishers are so eager to cater towards a crowd of people who will never keep a game alive for an extended amount of time. Is it really the tempting quick buck they're after?

[pipehacker]

with swotor I would consider myself a casual gamer. (although there are games I'm addicted to like TW-Series, and such)

 

I played the game till lv. 50.

was fun.

tried endgame-content - didn't like it.

tried an alt.

realized I get bored, because most quests are the same.

stopped playing since I got bored.

a game has to make fun after all... I don't play to showoff.

 

Never played an MMO before, since I don't like the game mechanics (eg. when I kill the monsters they are ought to be gone - not respawn 2 min. after killing them. Storywise I wiped out all the evil emipre troops... unfortunately they are still standing everywhere... ***??? - I know, that simply how MMO's work, but I don't like it)

 

As with this game BW attracted alot of Starwars fans - not necessarily MMO-Fans, they had to expect, that the "casuals" will quit after playing it trough one time, maybe twice.

 

So in my opinion, casuals will never stick to this game for years... they play the story, had fun, and leave. PERIOD.

 

Only Hardcore gamers stick to such a game for years - defenately not the casuals.

 

Jm2c

Edited May 10, 2012 by pipehacker

[corakil]

I know that some people will hate my ideas and some will like them, hopefully more the latter. Here they are:

#1 Reduce costs of training, speeders, and mod removal by 20%. Reduce costs of crafting and Bank slots by 40%. Reduce costs of Legafy unlocks by 75%.

 

#2 Reduce the amount of mobs spawned from levels 25-49 by about 30%.

 

#3 Reduce trash mob hp in Flashpoints by 15%. and boss hp by 5%.

 

#4 Add a new training/ tutorial bracket in PVP that allows brand new players to earn a fairly acceptable "tutorial" set of items.

 

 

 

lol....no

[Mrs_Murder]

And here I thought that this was a game for casuals and the hardcore players were the ones to leave.

All I see sticking to the game are casuals.

 

This. All the hardcore people I played with quit in january-february-march. The first one was in january, after he got Battlemaster.

The casuals and RPers are the ones loving this game.

[VegaPhone]

Its difficult to classify demographics without proper research. However, even with research, an educated guess will turn out to be just as good.

 

As others have mentioned, casuals need a variety of content to keep them interested. However, is this demographic sw fans, rpg fans, fans of the MMO genre etc becuase depending on those factors means whether the casuals will return to the game or not.

 

So what kind of variety of content is needed for casuals, hardcore, and MMO gamers alike to have to stay for a longer period of time to play and enjoy swtor?

 

Its introducing content that is of course expected and expanding slightly from the formulas of MMOs and introducing something of thier own twist.

 

1. Crafting - that required exploration, gave exp, stimulated economy- has a lot depth to create a huge immersion to the game. One of the most important imo.

2. Open world pvp, objectives

3. Warzones

4. Raids/ HM

5. Heroics/FP

7. Mini games which are multiplayer - Pazaak, swoop racing

8. exploration

9. cantina and social places

10. Player housing/decoration - fun money sinks - also includes crafting/open world simulated

11. Better melodramitic VO, and more cutscenes for big transitions in story instead of talking

12. Questing overlapping into oppsing factions area

13. Player Bounty system

14. NPC more lively, more alien races

15. more character customization

16. Roaming NPCs for warzones, or open world

17. Day/night cycles

 

There might be a few other things like 3d space combat, swimming and underwater content, which would all be great addtions to swtor in the future, but on the ground, there needs to be alternatives that are expected of a high quality MMO that offers alternative play for casuals and hardcore players.

 

The problem is that warzones are more for hardcore players, but open world, open world raiding, player housing, mini games, crafting can all be done by casuals at their own pace and be good at what they do as well.

 

So that is why offering alternative content is very important, and the question is will the SW IP help to keep swtor alive to give the devs enough time to add the necessary content to make the game more fun for everyone?

 

I believe yes, but that really up to them and their vision being clear, and being able to translate that vision into a simulated reality... the MMO we have come to experience and still have hopes for.

[Talon_strikes]

And here I thought that this was a game for casuals and the hardcore players were the ones to leave.

My whole guild full of hardcore players was gone, and then we got some more hardcore players, few weeks later - also gone.

 

All I see sticking to the game are casuals.

This.

 

I'm so confused because I always hear of the hardcore gamers leaving. Casuals and diehard fans are the ones usually sticking around... or so I've heard.

[krinaman]

I think you guys are confusing the term 'casual' used in the conference call with how we, the player population, use the term.

 

They were simply referring to people who canceled after their first month as casual. It makes no assumptions about their in game activities.

 

For all we know, it could have been 'hardcore' players who cancelled, unhappy with the game itself.

 

Yep, I'm starting to wonder if most of the responses even read the article.

[mikphobos]

EV on normal takes roughly an hour if you don't wipe on every boss 6 times. The only reason esseles takes long is if you watch the cutscenes, that's not an hour of gameplay. FE is the longest FP in the game. You can almost do both EV and KP if you're running with a competent team in the same time it takes to clear it, maybe 30min more.

 

Guild Wars isn't any more an MMO than Diablo is. It's simply a multiplayer game, even the devs themselves don't classify it as such. As for WoW I stopped playing it shortly after Cata came out because it had turned into an online adventure game, not an RPG. WoW is bleeding subs and for a good reason.

 

i agree with you, but you also have to accept the lack of endgame in SWTOR exist, and in a huge proportion, so the game atm, does not really have nothing for hardcore or casual players, the game is in a mid state between both atm,

and if doesnt do something drastic may not be a one year success party for SWTOR.

[Urael]

This is the most casual MMO of this type ever made. The fact that people still think it's not casual friendly proves the point that pandering to them is a waste of time, they will never be happy with anything and thus should be completely ignored and instead, go with the original vision of the developers.

 

Did you even read the article? BW blames Casuals for loss of subs.

 

Its clearly 31337$ that zerged the content and unsubbed do to lack of end game that are the losses.

[Cerion]

Moreover, when a casual player sees a hardcore player in the best gear in the game riding around on an awesome raid mount, he or she is likely to say "I want that."

 

lol, get over yourself. The only thing that goes through this casual players mind is "what a waste of time".

 

Now I'm sure you like to IMAGINE that everyone is envious of you...but we're not. We're really not.

[Blazenor]

I think the features coming in Legacy with 1.3 will add to features for the casual player.

[Mindsplitter]

It boggles the mind. All I can think is that EA made a statement that said that the 25% lose in subs was due to casual gamers leaving the game. Which is a complete lie! My entire guild except for my wife and I have left this game because it didn't have enough end game content. Not surprising considering that you can power-level to 50 in a week.

 

I really enjoy this game. Love the stories, and the accessibility to easy money. Gold farmers must hate this game.

 

In any case, I just don't see how they can cater to casual gamers anymore then they already do. This is the most casual friendly MMO ever. I just don't get the article at all. I guess the press just eats up what EA lies about...

[dandamanno]

Casual players also appreciate beautifuly crafted and engaging worlds and are more likely to stop and smell the roses while playing the game and take their time to get to 50.

 

In swtor the worlds are so uninteresting and have no life, weather, days/nights that you have to ask: Who would want to stop and smell cardboard cutouts of roses? Who wants to explore worlds that are so clearly designed to funnel you in and out of them asap to get you to end-game.

[Cerion]

I hate to break it to y'all, but the OP has a point. Even THIS game is really too much for most casual gamers. I have three friends that love Star Wars, but none of them will touch MMOs...not because of the subscription, but because the commitment to an MMO is still too hardcore for them.

 

If we can measure the spectrum of players on a bellcurve, harcore at one end and non-players at the other, SWTOR probably comes in at about 1 sigma above the peak of the bellcurve.

[Jandi]

Casual players also appreciate beautifuly crafted and engaging worlds and are more likely to stop and smell the roses while playing the game and take their time to get to 50.

 

In swtor the worlds are so uninteresting and have no life, weather, days/nights that you have to ask: Who would want to stop and smell cardboard cutouts of roses? Who wants to explore worlds that are so clearly designed to funnel you in and out of them asap to get you to end-game.

 

That is my gripe as well and I'm someone that would be considered as hardcore. Can only hope that, in the future with new planets, they make them worlds instead of a prop.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Jandi

[Blackavaar]

And here I thought that this was a game for casuals and the hardcore players were the ones to leave.

My whole guild full of hardcore players was gone, and then we got some more hardcore players, few weeks later - also gone.

 

All I see sticking to the game are casuals.

 

I think EA's definition of casual players is different than ours.

 

They seem to define casuals as the hard cores that flip from MMO to MMO as they are released, whereas we define casuals as those who don't play a single character to the level cap in a week and then complain that there is nothing left to do.

 

[Urael]

I think EA's definition of casual players is different than ours.

 

They seem to define casuals as the hard cores that flip from MMO to MMO as they are released, whereas we define casuals as those who don't play a single character to the level cap in a week and then complain that there is nothing left to do.

 

 

/agreed.

 

[Jandi]

I think EA's definition of casual players is different than ours.

 

They seem to define casuals as the hard cores that flip from MMO to MMO as they are released, whereas we define casuals as those who don't play a single character to the level cap in a week and then complain that there is nothing left to do.

 

 

Polarizations are stupid, you're no better than EA. I played my first char to 50 4 days after early access yet I didn't complain about lack of content. In fact, I still don't complain about it even with 6x50.

[Fionah]

This article seems to be just another round of rubbish spouted by EA Executives to minimize their gross mismanagement of TOR in an attempt to save their jobs. Unfortunately, it does not help those 1000+ EA employees who lost their jobs do to their executives incompetence

[SajmanPeetee]

Some of the features that would have been perfect for casuals were somehow put into the game in a way that they will be mostly inaccessible to them in the long run (legacy, appearance customization, etc.). That's what I think mostly puts Rift and WoW above SWTOR in casual-friendliness.

 

This is correct.

 

Take the Legacy system which in its current form has plenty of casual perks and very few hardcore perks. The problem with it is the monetary costs, asking a casual player to dedicate his entire playing to doing dailies for 2 weeks just to unlock that race he wants is crazy.

 

Casual base loves flashpoints, WoW proved this. However, without an LFD tool casuals are forced to make their own groups which cuts into playing time and they are unable to finish the FP.

 

In a nutshell,

 

Designed for casuals, implemented for hardcores

[Lt_Latency]

It makes sense to mean, When he was talking casual gamers he seems to mean NON mmo players who checked the game out and desided MMOs are not for them