Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue

[dcgregorya]

Lots of stuff.

 

There's no math required. Just wear expertise gear. It's not like we're talking about people in full Campaign gear or we're talking about a guy that has full Battlemaster and one PVE piece - we're talking about people who have *BAD* gear, NO HP, NO EXPERTISE and are going to get wrecked. You don't even have a point in this thread, you're going off topic by number crunching that some pieces are better than others or whatever and no one cares because that isn't what this thread is about. If you want to number crunch which one or two pieces of Warhero gear you want to swap for Campaign please start a new thread and go there.

 

Stop nitpicking and focus on the point of the thread - make 500 expertise *MANDATORY* for solo queuing. I also think recruit gear should be gifted or given as a quest reward rather than making people pay so much for it - as it stands right now the vast majority of people without it either can't afford it, don't know about Tattooine/Outlaw's Den or just plain don't know what it is and why they need it and Bioware does a really poor job of explaining to the players what to expect when they go from 1-49 PVP into 50PVP.

Edited May 11, 2012 by dcgregorya

[RoninUTA]

It doesn't master whose team they're on, they're only hurting their teammates. It should never happen. You can get the money to buy the Recruit gear in one day of dailies. I can't imagine its even fun to get blown up in pvp without any gear at all. Its bad enough for those of us with the gear. There is no reason not to do this.

 

I see plenty of reason not to do it. PvP can be fun without having the recruit armor. I play all the time with my blue and greens from PvE and quests. I enjoy the living daylights out of people find new and exciting ways to cause me to respawn, with me laughing out loud all the way. I'm not going to spend 300k on armor that I don't like (aesthetic value) and that will be worthless once I complete the battlemaster gathering.

 

I realize it may be frustrating to other players, casuals like me, but that is the nature of the beast.

[Majestic_Jazz]

Sigh, this discussion is about post-1.2. Pre-1.2 you obviously had no options but to take you're lumps. Now there is an option, the recruit set. That is what we are discussing.

 

Still, if a fresh Level 50 wants to enjoy Warzones than he/she has every right to do so! Regardless of their gear!

 

I mean, from what I know, it cost around 300K for a full set of gear. A lot of level 50s are broke at this point! I know I was. Also, even though a fresh level 50 might have 400K or 500K in credits, they might not want to spend all of that on PvP gear because perhaps they aren't really hardcore into PvP and would rather save their credits for something that they really like. Again, they bought the game, they pay for the fee each month so they have the right to play the way they want to play.

 

Again, pay my monthly fee and I'll do what ever you tell me to do.....

[RoninUTA]

When you q with one of these folks simply quit the Warzone, let them try to "earn" their gear by themselves in their pve gear the way they want too.

 

I have the most fun time when half the team quits a WZ. It's one thing to disconnect, but quitters are much more entertaining to poke fun.

[RoninUTA]

Ever thought they might not know.

 

If I see someone in pve gear in pvp, even if it is full rakata, i tend to point out to them that they will probably have a lot more fun in recruit gear as expertise is king in pvp.

 

They generally are happy for the advice. Maybe try to act like a reasonable human before getting angry with people.

 

What, you mean being a considerate human being? What a concept. Kudos to you!

[SneakyErvin]

OR

 

A: 3132*1.0752= 3367 -(3367*.3(1010))= 2357

or calc trama first then exp, but the number is the same in the end. So I am going to be a nice guy and give you that number, albeit not much of a difference.

 

Here is my floor number:

3132*.7= 2192 +(1.0752*586(HealBonus)- 586)=2236

 

We shall see tonight.................

 

Why, oh why do you count your bonus healing after your first calculation. 586 i.e your healing bonus is inluded in your 3132, already included in your tooltip. It should not be calculated seperately again for bonus. Expertise modifications work like any other ability that modifies damage/healing done. As I said before, just like deadly throw or taunt or things that buff them. Abilites that have an impact on the bonus damage/healing value in your character pane have it stated in their ability tooltip. Like Unnatural Might or Force Might. Anything else is multiplied to your end damage. I'm not sure why you are stuck on thinking expertise modifies the bonus damage value. Because in your tests you had no impact from expertise at all since you werent in combat. So like I said its just part of the game that some casts just have a higher than expected end value.

 

Like I mentioned, my sorcs top end heal value SHOULD be 2874 or what it was, but his top heals went beyond 3k on normal heals. This was as I stated on fleet flagged, unflagged and in spawn area of WZs, neither got any impact from expertise because I wants in active combat at any time during the test.

 

You need to calculate it like this.

 

3132 x 0.7 = 2192.4 x1.0752 = 2357.26848.

 

and not like this.

 

3132*.7= 2192 +(1.0752*586(HealBonus)- 586)=2236

Edited May 11, 2012 by SneakyErvin

[RoninUTA]

This crap attitude does currently more harm to me as a player than any bioware bug or missing content. It makes me not want to log in my new 50.

 

Please tell me you have found other like-minded people to play with.

[RoninUTA]

and heres a thought, you see that speeder skill that costs so much? it gives you a 10% increase on speed (or 20% if you never bought rank 2 like me). its minimal, youll hardly notice it, and if you intend to do a lot of pvp, its completely useless. dont buy it, or buy it AFTER you have your gear set.

 

But I like my new speeder...it goes Vroom Vroom...

[RoninUTA]

Recruit gear should not be a requirement to queue.

 

We do not know why a player doesn't have recruit gear. It could be:

 

They don't know it exists.

They aren't sure they want to PvP.

They don't have the credits.

They don't want to spend the credits.

 

I'm sure there are others. None of these are reasons to exclude someone from a warzone. And to be insulted because they come into 'your' warzone without recruit gear is the height of narcissism. If you are insulted it's because you want to be, not because they want to insult you. I haven't met anyone yet that builds an entire elaborate and nefarious plan to insult so-and-so by playing warzones without recruit gear. Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

 

Every person we run off by insulting them about the recruit gear issue lengthens the queue. We should be stewards of the PvP community. We should be about helping people want to play PvP. They are a good way towards shorter queues. Running them off is just cutting your own throat.

 

If you don't have gear in the zone I'm in...I DON'T....CARE...I'll help you if you want or need it. I'll let you do it your way if you want. Either way I'm happy you are on my team.

 

If you don't want to play with people without gear, make your own team. At least you'll know the insult was directed at you.

 

+1 Kudos

[dcgregorya]

Still, if a fresh Level 50 wants to enjoy Warzones than he/she has every right to do so! Regardless of their gear!

 

I mean, from what I know, it cost around 300K for a full set of gear. A lot of level 50s are broke at this point! I know I was. Also, even though a fresh level 50 might have 400K or 500K in credits, they might not want to spend all of that on PvP gear because perhaps they aren't really hardcore into PvP and would rather save their credits for something that they really like. Again, they bought the game, they pay for the fee each month so they have the right to play the way they want to play.

 

Again, pay my monthly fee and I'll do what ever you tell me to do.....

 

I'm tired of carrying you. Go to Outlaw's Den and pick up a couple pieces of recruit gear you lazy...

[RoninUTA]

however, you would rather be a parasite on your teammates and have them carry you for a week or more until you have BM because you are simply to cheap and lazy to gear yourself out beforehand.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm fairly lazy...oh and cheap too. It's just some character flaws of mine.

 

2. shouldnt they have figured this one out around lvl 10? lvl 50 is a bit late to start looking at pvp.

I know several people in my on group who have not decided on PvP yet and have multiple 50's (not me of course I'm PvPing with a 15-30). Mostly they want to avoid arguments like this thread, but they do exist despite my best efforts to get them to die lots with me in a WZ.

[L-RANDLE]

Why, oh why do you count your bonus healing after your first calculation. 586 i.e your healing bonus is inluded in your 3132, already included in your tooltip. It should not be calculated seperately again for bonus. Expertise modifications work like any other ability that modifies damage/healing done. As I said before, just like deadly throw or taunt or things that buff them. Abilites that have an impact on the bonus damage/healing value in your character pane have it stated in their ability tooltip. Like Unnatural Might or Force Might. Anything else is multiplied to your end damage. I'm not sure why you are stuck on thinking expertise modifies the bonus damage value. Because in your tests you had no impact from expertise at all since you werent in combat. So like I said its just part of the game that some casts just have a higher than expected end value.

 

Like I mentioned, my sorcs top end heal value SHOULD be 2874 or what it was, but his top heals went beyond 3k on normal heals. This was as I stated on fleet flagged, unflagged and in spawn area of WZs, neither got any impact from expertise because I wants in active combat at any time during the test.

 

You need to calculate it like this.

 

3132 x 0.7 = 2192.4 x1.0752 = 2357.26848.

 

and not like this.

 

3132*.7= 2192 +(1.0752*586(HealBonus)- 586)=2236

 

So I should NEVER hit a number lower than that right? Let's just wait until tonight, k...

 

 

[EDIT]Oh and I can debunk your IN-combat v OUT-combat notion too. Stay tuned...

Edited May 11, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[dcgregorya]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm fairly lazy...oh and cheap too. It's just some character flaws of mine.

 

 

I know several people in my on group who have not decided on PvP yet and have multiple 50's (not me of course I'm PvPing with a 15-30). Mostly they want to avoid arguments like this thread, but they do exist despite my best efforts to get them to die lots with me in a WZ.

 

See, my problem isn't that people like you exist. My problem is that people like you get put onto my team all day long and we get steam rolled because of it. Do I care that you're ok with losing? No, give me the ability to queue with people who want to win though.

[Majestic_Jazz]

I'm tired of carrying you. Go to Outlaw's Den and pick up a couple pieces of recruit gear you lazy...

 

Whether you carry me or not is not my problem. Maybe you should take a videogame [glorified toy] just a little less seriously and hopefully that should solve your problems.

 

Again, pay my monthly subscription and I'll play the game the way you like. Until then, go sit down somewhere. I bought the game and I pay for it every month. I have the RIGHT to play the way I want to play and I am not going to stress myself out or alter my gameplay just to satisfy someone online that I never met or plan on ever meeting.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Majestic_Jazz

[dcgregorya]

Whether you carry me or not is not my problem. Maybe you should take a videogame [glorified toy] just a little less seriously and hopefully that should solve your problems.

 

Again, pay my monthly subscription and I'll play the game the way you like. Until then, go sit down somewhere.

 

Bioware made your awfulness my problem by sticking you on my team all day long. The sad part is there are people like you who know they're bad, who know they could do better and who don't care because they get more fun ruining my experience than playing the match.

[Majestic_Jazz]

Bioware made your awfulness my problem by sticking you on my team all day long. The sad part is there are people like you who know they're bad, who know they could do better and who don't care because they get more fun ruining my experience than playing the match.

 

Lol, you're now resorting to the "you suck" comments which I will not comment on, I am not bringing myself down that low. But I will say this, I play the game to have fun. I don't know how or why you play the game, but I play to have fun and to get away from the every day frustrations and stresses of real life. Most of the time I am questing or sending my companions out on crew skills so I can craft and eventually become a profitable crafter. However, from time to time I do like to jump into some Warzones for compettive gameplay against someone who isn't a computer A.I. Do I want to win? Yes, but am I going to cause a fit if I lose? No! Am I going to point fingers and call people crap because they have "inferior" gear" No, I just act like an adult and realize that this is JUST a videogame, not a real life job in which my life/job/family depends on it.

 

I am sorry that you are having an unfortunate time in the game, but that isn't my problem and I could careless how much fun you are having or how much of a disaster you are having. I am having fun and thats all that matters.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Majestic_Jazz

[RoninUTA]

How about this.

 

Delete all pvp gear from the game. When you q for warzone at 50 and you click join, it puts you in a suit of BM gear(just for the Warzone, not permanent gear), for your class and spec, or gives you the choice of 3 sets that each focus on a different secondary stats. When you leave the warzone your back in your gear.

 

Everyone is now gear equal and PvP is about skill, situational awareness and strategy. The way its supposed to be.

 

Make pvp rewards, Money, Special titles, still give commendations or whatever, but make it so there is cool social items, mounts, medpacks, stims, pets, titles, vanity items, crafting items, and such to spend them on instead of gear.

 

Make PvP about skill, strategy and teamwork, not gear and FOTM toons.

 

You are my new most favorite person....seriously. This is the only way to end PvP arguments. People who enjoy PvP will still play in situations like the one you propose.

[SneakyErvin]

So I should NEVER hit a number lower than that right? Let's just wait until tonight, k...

 

 

[EDIT]Oh and I can debunk your IN-combat v OUT-combat notion too. Stay tuned...

 

I dont know, is that your minimum value on the spell tooltip or top end?

 

I'm sure it can dip below just like it can peak above, just like I told you. Also remember that "3132 x 0.7 = 2192.4 x1.0752 = 2357.26848" is with trauma and 7.26 healing expertise included. So any way to get close to that in live testing is to run several WZs with a parcer running. You also need to be aware of what buffs you had on you when cant your heals, otherwise the results can differ.

 

My spells were up at 2978 in the tooltip, but it peaked at 3006. So the tooltip isnt 100% accurate, which would explain your placebo effect from earlier "tests".

[Rhadamanthine]

Whether you carry me or not is not my problem. Maybe you should take a videogame [glorified toy] just a little less seriously and hopefully that should solve your problems.

 

Again, pay my monthly subscription and I'll play the game the way you like. Until then, go sit down somewhere. I bought the game and I pay for it every month. I have the RIGHT to play the way I want to play and I am not going to stress myself out or alter my gameplay just to satisfy someone online that I never met or plan on ever meeting.

 

The issue is less the fact that people can play as they want (feel free), and more that people who want to play another way are stuck with those people. In PVE, that doesn't have to be the case. If you want to play it your way, and your way involves not putting out a certain amount of effort, then you are excluded from groups who don't agree with that (go sell that philosophy to hardcore raid groups). In PVP, everyone is stuck together regardless of how disparate their little visions of ideal play are. And that breeds...entitlement! Which you are so graciously exhibiting.

 

As a counterpoint: You (or whoever is doing that) pay part of the monthly sub of people stuck with you, then when what you do impacts their experience, you will have made up for it. But no, that wouldn't work either, would it? I guess then you'll just have to accept that some people don't like that philosophy and learn to deal with listening to them. No one is going to 'sit down and shut up' for you - do feel free to stop posting about it if it's just a videogame and thus means that little. No one is going to be happy when you likewise ruin their experience. If you can't compromise your lofty ideals then that is what you need to come to terms with.

 

Addendum: Put your money where your mouth is, and get to 50 with an alt. Don't get any WZ comms, or very few, to pose it realistically for a lot of the people you're championing. Then, do the grind to BM with no Recruit. Come back and tell us how much you enjoyed it, honestly. I dare you to do it. And I'll tell you something: when 1.2 hit, I played a few matches with my cent/champ equipped main that had underpar Expertise. It wasn't fun - recruit geared people had more expertise than me and it showed. When my alts hit 50, I'm going to get them recruit gear because I can't imagine the amount of not-fun it would be to do the BM grind naked of Expertise. 320k is a small price to pay, even with the not-great stats, for having expertise to lessen the amount of pain better geared people hand you. I didn't enjoy the virgin expertise grind pre-1.2, and I certainly wouldn't enjoy it now.

[RoninUTA]

See, my problem isn't that people like you exist. My problem is that people like you get put onto my team all day long and we get steam rolled because of it. Do I care that you're ok with losing? No, give me the ability to queue with people who want to win though.

 

You have the absolute right to leave the game at any time just as I have the absolue right to queue solo with nothing on at all. Tell me this, what would stop me from purchasing Recruit gear, queuing up, and stripping down to the gray undies and streaking all over the huttball arena? In fact now I'm tempted to do that even more. I'm not in WZs to win, I'm in to have fun and if I win all the better; icing on the cake so to speak.

[Dabrixmgp]

If they dont buy it report them for griefing as they are purposely dragging down your team.

[RoninUTA]

If they dont buy it report them for griefing as they are purposely dragging down your team.

 

I would find the non-purchase of equipment difficult to prove as "purposely". What if I really like the look of my armor? What if I really like the stats as is? In any game where queues pick random people you are going to have very little control over who you play with at any given time. Nature of the beast.

[Majestic_Jazz]

The issue is less the fact that people can play as they want (feel free), and more that people who want to play another way are stuck with those people. In PVE, that doesn't have to be the case. If you want to play it your way, and your way involves not putting out a certain amount of effort, then you are excluded from groups who don't agree with that (go sell that philosophy to hardcore raid groups). In PVP, everyone is stuck together regardless of how disparate their little visions of ideal play are. And that breeds...entitlement! Which you are so graciously exhibiting.

 

As a counterpoint: You (or whoever is doing that) pay part of the monthly sub of people stuck with you, then when what you do impacts their experience, you will have made up for it. But no, that wouldn't work either, would it? I guess then you'll just have to accept that some people don't like that philosophy and learn to deal with listening to them. No one is going to 'sit down and shut up' for you - do feel free to stop posting about it if it's just a videogame and thus means that little. No one is going to be happy when you likewise ruin their experience. If you can't compromise your lofty ideals then that is what you need to come to terms with.

 

Addendum: Put your money where your mouth is, and get to 50 with an alt. Don't get any WZ comms, or very few, to pose it realistically for a lot of the people you're championing. Then, do the grind to BM with no Recruit. Come back and tell us how much you enjoyed it, honestly. I dare you to do it. And I'll tell you something: when 1.2 hit, I played a few matches with my cent/champ equipped main that had underpar Expertise. It wasn't fun - recruit geared people had more expertise than me and it showed. When my alts hit 50, I'm going to get them recruit gear because I can't imagine the amount of not-fun it would be to do the BM grind naked of Expertise. 320k is a small price to pay, even with the not-great stats, for having expertise to lessen the amount of pain better geared people hand you. I didn't enjoy the virgin expertise grind pre-1.2, and I certainly wouldn't enjoy it now.

 

Well said and at least your response was a bit more mature and less of "You suck! Get out of my game!". So while I disagree with what you said, I still respect it.

 

Still, I maintain my stance. When I turn level 50, I am not going to purposely not play Warzones until I get enough credits to buy the recruit gear, no! If I just hit 50 and I decide that I want to play some warzones, I will do so. I am not going to stop myself because I don't want to offend others because I am "under geared". Why should I please these people? I play the game to please myself and that means playing what I want when I want.

 

Going back to what I said before, just cause you are anyone else was breaking bank once they hit 50 doesn't mean everyone else has the same situation. You don't know what that person may have or may not have been doing with their credits while leveling. With all these money sinks [Legacy comes to mind], it is really possible to hit L50 and have like only 60K in the bank. I know, it seems crazy but everyone's situation is unique. Maybe they spent their credits buying rare items [Thing the White crystals pre 1.2], or top of the line items [such as speeders]. Maybe they have gone broke running crew skill missions and haven't gotten tot he point where they are making a profit [it takes money to make money]. I can go on and on but my point is, not everyone is set it a bunch of credits once they hit 50.

 

Second, because they aren't set with credits, telling someone to just do dailies doesn't make any sense either. Again, this person has the right to play the game the way they want to play. Perhaps this person does not want to do dailies, maybe they just complete the game's story and decided that they are now bored with all that questing and does not want to have anything to do with PvE anymore until new content comes. Perhaps they want to grind Warzones to make credits [i know, it is crazy, but people might like this option]. So while they are playing WZs in green/orange gear, they might be taking that money earned and applying it to buy their first piece of Recruit gear and so on.

 

Not everyone who does not have full gear are people purposely trying to ruin the experience. Remember, we all start off at the bottom and must build ourselves back up. How we do that is unique to all of us. You might like to make your money through dailies, I might like to make my money through GTN, and the next person might like to make their money by grinding WZs. You might not agree with it, but you at least have to respect it.

[L-RANDLE]

I dont know, is that your minimum value on the spell tooltip or top end?

 

I'm sure it can dip below just like it can peak above, just like I told you. Also remember that "3132 x 0.7 = 2192.4 x1.0752 = 2357.26848" is with trauma and 7.26 healing expertise included. So any way to get close to that in live testing is to run several WZs with a parcer running. You also need to be aware of what buffs you had on you when cant your heals, otherwise the results can differ.

 

My spells were up at 2978 in the tooltip, but it peaked at 3006. So the tooltip isnt 100% accurate, which would explain your placebo effect from earlier "tests".

 

Do you not think I made sure all things were equal. You didn't even analyze the photos well enough to see I took great care to have the same buffs on...

 

Another excuse ("oh its not 100% accurate all the time")? WHAT!! Sounds like the begining of enlightenment to me.

Spells? What spells? Heals? Damage (did you know the other player's stats or if any DEBUFFS were present)? I am sure you have photos to prove this right?

 

 

Go look at the photos again. Your tool tip changes if you get a player buffs. 3132 is the minimum, after all Player buffs (Knight/Troop/Smugg)/ETC) were applied outside of the WZ. Now forward 1min, those same buffs still present as evident by the tool tip reading (or just look at the damn pictures above my HP bar) and I hit what i hit. In fact, I had the SAME player buffs(ALL 4 OF THEM) and my RAK WP STIM in ALL OF THE PHOTOS.

 

Lets be real here. Your "example" is a 28HP difference. My formula versus yours is 165HP and the order of magnitude is WAY smaller. ("2978 in the tooltip, but it peaked at 3006" versus "2236 or 2357") That is a WAY higher fluctuation...

 

Here I will give you a clue how I will prove being "in-combat" don't matter and ONLY the green on your Nameplate kicks in PvP stats:

What will my max heal with the trauma buff on while out of combat?

[Dabrixmgp]

Still, I maintain my stance. When I turn level 50, I am not going to purposely not play Warzones until I get enough credits to buy the recruit gear, no! If I just hit 50 and I decide that I want to play some warzones, I will do so. I am not going to stop myself because I don't want to offend others because I am "under geared". Why should I please these people? I play the game to please myself and that means playing what I want when I want.

 

If you get to 50 and cant afford recruit gear you played the game wrong. I was able to buy my set and sets for my DPS companion and my Healer companion and still had 2 million left over.