If It Wasn't Star Wars, Would You PvP?

[LordRaeth]

Well, I waited a long long time for this game, but there's two things that are prompting me to not resub next time I have to.

 

1. Community on my server is terrible, after all the work I've done it's hard to start on a new server, even more so now with introduction of legacy.

 

2. The biggest problem is pvp, before legacy I was in part centurion and part champion gear with my sniper. I did pretty well, could pop out 3k crits with a single relic used, but now pvp is horrible. I got the recruit stuff yet I die twice as fast as before, jedi/sith guardian/juggernaut kill me in a matter of seconds with ravage, and sentinels/marauders even quicker. It's just not fun, in fact the jedi I faced today would emote /yawn because it was boring for them to.

 

Things really need to change, because at this rate, I'll be going to a game I don't have to pay to be disappointed by.

[DarkDruidSS]

To begin with, it's getting more and more questionable to me whether this game even is Star Wars in its true and proper sense anymore.

 

I say this because of the horrid black lightsabers, visually force corrupted non-force users which together with the recent 1.2 high level gear designs makes me seriously question BioWare's level of seriousness when it comes to respecting this IP.

 

And no, to be perfectly honest the only reason I currently play and PvP is due to whatever remains of "Star Wars" in the game. Although considering the fact that the development seems to have been hijacked by the loudest crying kiddies with no sense of taste or moderation whatsoever, then given enough time there might not be much left resembling the IP as some of us know it.

 

As for the PvP in particular, IMO it's certainly not as fun anymore mainly due to the following:

 

 

 

• Imbalanced and low server populations.
   
   
  
• TTK is down too much post 1.2.
   
   
  
• Pugging it and being forced to face premades.
   
   
  
• Getting thrown into losing Warzones (e.g. 2 minutes left on a Huttball match and under by 5 points).
   
   
  
• Non-existent open world PvP.
   
   
  
• Must admit the stunfest is getting a bit tiresome by now.
  

 

I'm currently in full Battlemaster and PvP is my main activity in game. I don't have the time nor inclination to group up or commit to more organized teamplay. So before anyone responds to my "pug vs premade" point by saying "just join a premade": No, anyone should be able to play as casual and compete against other casuals. It's a perfectly valid playstyle and a most reasonable request, or else there wouldn't even be an option to solo queue in the first place.

 

Granted, a lot of the stuff I listed above can be fixed, but the question is how long it will take. I can't speak for anyone else, but pretty much all of my guildies/RL friends have left the game months ago and don't seem the least tempted to return, at least not at the moment.

 

Finally, can't say much about the "other game" as I didn't participate in the weekend beta. Don't have the motivation to pre-purchase in order to try it out. It seems kinda cool I guess, but frankly, I'm sick and tired of the Fantasy genre. I've had it with trolls, dragons and elves in tights. I might check it out later but now I'm just happy for those who tried it and liked it; good for you and enjoy.

 

Me, I guess I'll stick around for a while, but as I said I'm already on the verge of what I can take from this game. Every time I see someone with a black saber I die a little inside. And if the day comes when I stop getting the Star Wars feeling from this game, then I honestly don't know.

 

SE

 

You have a point with the corruption of non-force users, but you do realize that the Clone Wars TV series has a Mandolarian non-force user with a black lightsaber called the Darksaber right? It's just another example of George Lucas not giving a crap what happens to his Star Wars universe anymore. If you want to blame anyone, blame him haha, but he is the creator so it's his to do what he wants with it. He always said he like Indiana Jones more anyway.

[AltruisticRage]

You're right. As an old school gamer I know how games USED to be, but that is in the past. I grew up with Quake, Unreal, Rainbow Six, and Counter Strike (it was a free mod then). Hell I had a Dragonball Z quake mod... probably the coolest mod I have seen besides Counter Strike...

 

The problem is that we are so used to having progression in every game we get now. That it is the norm and I have a hard time believing that the vast majority of people will play a game that doesn't have it for very long. There is a reason that Call of Duty, Battlefield and Halo all have character progression now. It isn't to appease the hardcore PvPer's. It's to get everyone else to play and stay playing because that is the only hook that will last.

 

I don't disagree. I think that is why they do it, to try to "hook" players. I just think that is why the games fail. People think they want progression but it isn't really what they need to truly hook them. Sometimes progression and change is actually for the worse. I certainly don't want to look like an old man on my rocker yelling at the kids because of their "new-fangled" ways of doing things (I am only 26).

 

I just think that people think they know what they want and they really don't. I think the gear grinds are worse for all pvp. You can look at the way WoW arena used to be done. "So, are you telling me the good players get better gear? So, not only are they better but they are better geared?"

 

Same as in SW. Those who play the most are the best geared. Make PvP gear cosmetic and level the playing field. It is basically level once you get in BM gear but that is a decent grind. People get wrecked in recruit gear.

[Savej]

If they had taken out the lightsabres and the sage/sorc classes and called the game Farscape or Firefly I would still probably be playing. But this is definitely my last trinity mmo.

[DarkDruidSS]

I don't disagree. I think that is why they do it, to try to "hook" players. I just think that is why the games fail. People think they want progression but it isn't really what they need to truly hook them. Sometimes progression and change is actually for the worse. I certainly don't want to look like an old man on my rocker yelling at the kids because of their "new-fangled" ways of doing things (I am only 26).

 

I just think that people think they know what they want and they really don't. I think the gear grinds are worse for all pvp. You can look at the way WoW arena used to be done. "So, are you telling me the good players get better gear? So, not only are they better but they are better geared?"

 

Same as in SW. Those who play the most are the best geared. Make PvP gear cosmetic and level the playing field. It is basically level once you get in BM gear but that is a decent grind. People get wrecked in recruit gear.

 

Yea, but see this is where FPS games and MMOs have always been divided. We have FPS games trying to be more like MMOs, but MMOs have never been like FPS games. Gear has always mattered in a MMO. Pre-WoW it was about PvE gear. Those that raided dominated and that was all there was. PvPer's eventually wanted their own gear sets and progression which is why we have what we have now... which happened when EQ2 and WoW were competing for subs... both added PvP gear to appease the PvPers. WoW was just quicker and better at giving the players what they wanted. WoW came up on top. So in a way you have old school PvPer's to thank for how MMOs are handled now...

[-Eternal-]

I waited eagerly for this game to launch since it was first talked about.

 

1) It's Star Wars. Yes, I'm a huge fanboy.

2) It's BioWare. KOTOR I and II were awesome games, as were many others.

3) There were a lot of promises made about engaging and rewarding PvP.

 

Having played this game since day one of early access, it's the lore and environment that keep me playing. If this were any other setting, I would've dropped my sub the day 1.2 went live...possibly even sooner. It sucks when good small companies get bought out by large megacorps and lose their identity, which is what happened when EA bought BioWare. I think all their creativity got sucked out of them.

 

Even more important than that, the PvP development team just flat out needs to be FIRED. I for damn sure know that if I failed to do my job for several months, I'd be sent packing. That's what needs to happen here. They just aren't getting it done, and it seemingly gets worse with every patch.

 

I'm playing on borrowed time. After my freebie 31 days are up, there's really nothing keeping me in this game unless there are some massive improvements to PvP.

 

 

Absolutely agree. No other game in MMO history was given the resources that this game has been given to develop, and the developers continually and repeatedly drop the ball on this game when it comes to the development of pvp. PVP is a joke and yet again, another game with HUGE potential has already been ruined. I can't imagine this game ever rebounding and most of the subscriber base will be gone after the free months are out. I know I will.

[Elmuerto]

Well, I waited a long long time for this game, but there's two things that are prompting me to not resub next time I have to.

 

1. Community on my server is terrible, after all the work I've done it's hard to start on a new server, even more so now with introduction of legacy.

 

2. The biggest problem is pvp, before legacy I was in part centurion and part champion gear with my sniper. I did pretty well, could pop out 3k crits with a single relic used, but now pvp is horrible. I got the recruit stuff yet I die twice as fast as before, jedi/sith guardian/juggernaut kill me in a matter of seconds with ravage, and sentinels/marauders even quicker. It's just not fun, in fact the jedi I faced today would emote /yawn because it was boring for them to.

 

Things really need to change, because at this rate, I'll be going to a game I don't have to pay to be disappointed by.

 

Because there is no world PvP there is no community. Me and granpa remember the good old days of Warhammer with multiple guilds and alliances co-ordinating 5 warbands thats 100 people, using vent and what not. THem were great times, I used to wear an onion on my belt, as was the fashion of the time.

 

There's no War in Star Wars, people have nothing to occupy them so we quibble over gear, classes and the the flimsy 4 warzones, alas.

[AltruisticRage]

So in a way you have old school PvPer's to thank for how MMOs are handled now...

 

Or just blaming Bioware for copy-pasting the WoW pvp gear system, which I think both are contributors. There is a game coming out that doesn't have this gear grind in relation to PvP. I may have to give it a shot.

[Celebrus]

I despise fantasy stuff, didnt even like harry potter

 

I love all things starwars, so i play this game.

 

(i understand there is some degree of irony in my view, but i hate elves and dwarfs).

 

The only irony in this statement is that you think that harry potter qualifies as "fantasy".

[DarkDruidSS]

Or just blaming Bioware for copy-pasting the WoW pvp gear system, which I think both are contributors. There is a game coming out that doesn't have this gear grind in relation to PvP. I may have to give it a shot.

 

Yea, good luck with that. I would try it if i wasn't burnt out on high medieval fantasy from playing EQ, EQ2, FFXI, WoW, Vanguard, Diablo 1-2, Warhammer, Aion and Rift before it. That other game to me is just another typical fantasy MMO and actually it reminds me of Darkfall with the combat... Darkfall didn't do well. Lack of progression in a progression based genre doesn't make sense to me. I have no problem with it in a FPS, but MMOs have always been about progression. That's just the sad truth of it all.

[DarkDruidSS]

The only irony in this statement is that you think that harry potter qualifies as "fantasy".

 

How exactly is it NOT fantasy? Care to explain?

[Recanter]

I just hung on because I loved Star Wars.

 

Unfortunately, SWTOR is despite how we choose to describe it, a business... That's it, plain, and simple.

 

It's gonna cost way too much to implement the "wishlist" for those of us left. Cross server- pvp, world pvp, class balances, ranked warzones, more warzone maps, bug fixes etc all cost money and lots of it.

 

Simple answer, the staff probably want to fix it, but the board of directors, shareholders etc just won't allocate the funding. Why? Cause its a business and the number one aim in any business is ... profit

 

See you guys in the "new game"

Edited April 30, 2012 by Recanter

[Scoobings]

As I finished beta weekend for a new up and coming MMO that is also fantasy based I found myself asking the question: If this game -TOR- was not based in the Star Wars universe, would I play and enjoy its PvP?

 

TOR has gear based PvP which is like many MMO's and some people think it was modeled after the largest MMO in the world -subscription base. TOR graphics could be described as similar to WoW in many ways -too cartoon like tbh.

 

As I played beta this passed weekend PvP was not gear based because we all had the same gear. Every zone was end game, if you are level xx and walk into a starter area with level 5 mobs, the mobs scaled to your level and so did the loot. The PvP maps were fun, multi levels with buildings and corners and just enough room for ranged to play and not too big as to allow melee to also have fun.

 

At level 2 -5 minutes after starting the game- you could port to the PvP area were you are fitted with top level gear and you can change spec and gear around. You also have the ability to change colors of anything to anything!

 

Unlike TOR or WoW you will never get blown up in seconds, you will have time to recover and 1v1 can take an eternity so people rather play in groups. The really fun part is you can dodge abilities completely by simply double taping movement key in any direction, so you need to pay attention to who is casting what and when!

 

I find myself realizing that TOR is not far behind WoW when it comes to gear based, nurf this, buff that and 1,2,3 BOOM dead game play in PvP and realized that had it not been set in the Star Wars universe I would have left after 1.2.

 

What about you?

 

Interesting question. Honestly, I like TORs PVP overall, so yeah I probably would. The only thing that might give me halt in terms of a genre shift would be if it was a fantasy MMO and not Sci-fi. Then... I dunno I might stop. I'm tired of Sci-fi.

 

Over all though, I like the fast paced PVP of TOR and I like that it doesn't take an eternity for a 1v1 to play out. I know what game you're talking about (through my l33t Holms-like skills of deduction) and honestly while the WvW looked very entertaining, at it's core the PVP seemed slow paced and boring to me, and everything in that game, aesthetically speaking, has just been done before. The streams I watched bored me

 

Maybe the game play will make up for that. It's definitely a game to keep an eye on because as I said, the WvW looked like it was pretty fun!

[heavenDor]

I for one wouldnt even have purchased it except I like the Fantasy/Sci-Fi feel of the Star Wars IP.

In regards to this "new game" and the scaling pvp and scaling zones. Why play an MMO then? Isn't the whole point of an MMO to have better things than the next guy because you put the time in and learned?

Look maybe someday you will realize it on your own but MMOs are NOT THE PLACE TO GET COMPETITIVE PVP. You want competition for real then go play something where everyone is equal ALL THE TIME like DOTA or HON. Those games provide the same basics of skill use and equipment buying with leveling up except its balanced and quick and it stat tracks everything. The "new game" is just DOTA with larger teams and a fresh coat of paint to obscure the fact that its just a small arena game EXACTLY like DOTA.

People play MMOs and PvP in them because its casual and provides an escape from work/school or whatever, not because you want competition. Anyone looking for competition in a game type that rewards you for TIME SPENT is looking in the wrong place.

[Cempa]

Its sad really we all hoped for epic battles between Republic and Empire, I for one was eager to duke it out on Tatooine when I heard about the PvP area, but game designers just messed it up so bad, sorry but this is not field of dreams, if you build it they will not 'just' come!

 

Ilum was just hilarious at how bad it was done.

 

BW giving warnings to guilds who repeatedly went after groups trying to kill a world boss on a PvP server!

 

It has been made brutely clear by the powers that be that TOR is first and foremost a PvE game with cartoon like graphics and glow sticks! PvP is a distant second.

 

Thats ok the business of TOR will always find care bear PvE players who like glow sticks to pay the monthly sub, the rest of us will playing a game that actually cares about PvP and world PvP!

Edited April 30, 2012 by Cempa

[toshman]

cancelled sub after the past weekend. the new game has got my interest.

 

i think that 1.2 failed from PVP standpoint and upset alot of pvpers. its gear driven and i want to pvp on an equal level.

 

i was in the biggest guild on the server, but now when you log in from 60 people regularly on there might be 10-15 on. with games like GW2 and Diii comming soon, no reason to play this.

[Sholagar]

That's a reason I have high hopes for that game. They will have to make the game appealing and fun, instead of adding time sinks.

 

I'm not any game's fanboi.... but here is why I don't think GW2 is going to be any good for longer than a couple of months....

 

 

no subscriptions.

 

I mean really, after they blow their load (initial box sales) during the first month, what real motivation do they have to keep tweaking and improving their game?? I mean, you can't seriously expect it to be a perfectly balanced masterpiece from day 1, do you? Even taking gear out of the equation.... there's gonna be class balance issues, healing issues, dps issues etc. etc. etc. just like this game or any other mmo has. Granted, I like they have eliminated gear as a unbalancing factor, but you can't seriously expect it to be all candy and roses from there, right??

 

I feel so burned on all games right now, I'm not buying another until its been out 6 months or so, and I get a chance to play it BEFORE buying it. Buy to play games I have been burned on too, and they have much less motivation to keep the game running well over the long term imo than a subscription based game.

 

BUT, I am sure GW2 will be a blast to play for about 6 months or so... which is probably longer than I am lasting here (I'm not even logged into the game right now and could be... so sad).

[Rappar]

I canceled my WoW sub 2 years before SW:TOR was released. (Because of issues I would not like to expand on.)

 

This game was supposed to be better than WoW in pvp, and i have been impressed. I HATED pvp in WoW, but swtor has peaked my interest in pvp. For that I am glad.

[ShavedEwok]

You have a point with the corruption of non-force users, but you do realize that the Clone Wars TV series has a Mandolarian non-force user with a black lightsaber called the Darksaber right? It's just another example of George Lucas not giving a crap what happens to his Star Wars universe anymore. If you want to blame anyone, blame him haha, but he is the creator so it's his to do what he wants with it. He always said he like Indiana Jones more anyway.

 

Yeah but as far as I know that is just ONE (1!) existing and isolated example, and on top of it all it doesn't even come from one of the movies but from a friggin' cartoon TV-series for crying out loud!

 

IMO, it qualifies as a one-time freak accident, nothing more. If anything, it's just an extremely poor excuse to bring some tasteless "bling bling" into the game for the kids who like shiny stuff.

 

/rant

 

i think that 1.2 failed from PVP standpoint and upset alot of pvpers. its gear driven and i want to pvp on an equal level.

 

I find your remark about being able to "pvp on an equal level", which I agree can't be said about TOR.

 

Seems to me that if anything, with the increased importance of Expertise post 1.2, the focus on gear has been even more concentrated...and often when gear becomes more important, skill tends to become less so.

 

No doubt the decreased TTK would have affected this as well. Would you say the change in TTK has made it even less about skill and more about gear, or is it just a matter of those being quicker having an advantage over those of a more tactical long-term style of PvP gameplay?

 

Personally, I miss the longer TTK and enjoyed the more tactical aspect of PvP. Then again, maybe all that really shows is that I'm just too slow to keep up with the higher pace of combat?

 

SE

Edited April 30, 2012 by ShavedEwok

[Olympic]

I agree with the TTK being to short, the problem is that longer TTK doesn't work with war zones that last 15 minutes.

 

Which brings me to the original question...I am playing this game, Star Wars or not, based on the sci-fi genre. I do not care too play any more games with elves and orcs of any variety.

 

Whether I continue with this game depends on what they do with open world PvP. I am being patient because all new games are jacked up for the first year. But if it continues to focus around war zones, then no I won't. War zones are lazy-poor-man PvP which severely limits the full scope of what PvP can and should be.

[Ximix]

To be honest, NO I wouldn't keep playing if it wasn't the SW universe. I came from Warhammer Online which, while not perfect, did have great RvR. And after coming from such a great experience there to SWTOR with it's 4 WZs and pathetic open PvP lag-fest zone is boring. My wife is a huge SW nerd, but when she found out there wouldn't be any significant RvR she didn't even want to try SWTOR.

[DarkDruidSS]

Yeah but as far as I know that is just ONE (1!) existing and isolated example, and on top of it all it doesn't even come from one of the movies but from a friggin' cartoon TV-series for crying out loud!

 

IMO, it qualifies as a one-time freak accident, nothing more. If anything, it's just an extremely poor excuse to bring some tasteless "bling bling" into the game for the kids who like shiny stuff.

 

/rant

 

Trust me I know where you are coming from, but if the game was left to the movies it wouldn't be nearly as cool as it is now. Let's face it combat in Star Wars before Episode 1 was dull. Episode 1 and all the books and comics for the expanded universe made Star Wars what it is today. With that came all the "bling bling" which was all approved by George Lucas. There is a huge list of colors that could be in SWTOR for lightsabers and with Ilum here and not destroyed it actually makes sense. Ilum was the source of most of the crystals which was destroyed before the movies took place... in the Star Wars timeline. There are jedi that even had 2 blade colors in 1 saber and it wasn't a double bladed saber like Darth Maul or Exar Kun.

Edited April 30, 2012 by DarkDruidSS

[ssbi]

I'm not any game's fanboi.... but here is why I don't think GW2 is going to be any good for longer than a couple of months....

 

 

no subscriptions.

 

I mean really, after they blow their load (initial box sales) during the first month, what real motivation do they have to keep tweaking and improving their game?? I mean, you can't seriously expect it to be a perfectly balanced masterpiece from day 1, do you? Even taking gear out of the equation.... there's gonna be class balance issues, healing issues, dps issues etc. etc. etc. just like this game or any other mmo has. Granted, I like they have eliminated gear as a unbalancing factor, but you can't seriously expect it to be all candy and roses from there, right??

 

I feel so burned on all games right now, I'm not buying another until its been out 6 months or so, and I get a chance to play it BEFORE buying it. Buy to play games I have been burned on too, and they have much less motivation to keep the game running well over the long term imo than a subscription based game.

 

BUT, I am sure GW2 will be a blast to play for about 6 months or so... which is probably longer than I am lasting here (I'm not even logged into the game right now and could be... so sad).

 

They could keep patching gw 1 with tweaks, that just shouldn't happen to 2 nd right ?

 

I mean yeah people need a carrot, but pvp for pvp sake it's the things which made some games immortal.

 

I think it gonna last longer, depends if arenanet gonna love their game , i mean they even had a guild with developers which pvped with normal players, arenanet got pwned yeah... But overall /care level...

[soldenal]

I canceled my WoW sub 2 years before SW:TOR was released. (Because of issues I would not like to expand on.)

 

This game was supposed to be better than WoW in pvp, and i have been impressed. I HATED pvp in WoW, but swtor has peaked my interest in pvp. For that I am glad.

 

Of course they have motivation to keep improving the game past initial sale. For one to attract more buyers. And to keep whoever bought the game happy enough to buy their next expansion.

[Xinika]

Actually, I wished PvP WAS more like Star Wars, than copied from one generic messy MMO(WoW). I really dont understand why Bioware have a fascination in 'death within 20 seconds'. When I come up against Smugglers, I get so annoyed because they simply have far too many stuns and a knock back better than a force user!

 

This left me wondering how many times I saw Han Solo running around in combat, stunning the enemy, knocking them back 20 metres etc - well he didnt.

 

Given the lack of any kind of open world pvp now, Warzones have become the only staple of pvp action. After playing the latest offering, Novare Coast - its clear Bioware just dont want any kind of war in this game. Hell, even Novare Coast isnt a real warzone - its a 'war simulation'.

 

For once, Bioware should stop trying to wrap everyone up in cotton wool and actually flex some creative muscle and give those who wish to pvp the ability to raid other planets, capture bunkers for faction buffs(like GW2 does with its World v World)

 

Completely agree with this post.