If It Wasn't Star Wars, Would You PvP?

[Seydis]

I bought a machine entirely for SWTOR and was always a console gamer. After playing this, I've realized I really like PvP. And I'm a massive Star Wars fan that's even read tons of books from the EU. That all being said. If they do not get cross-server ques in place for Warzones in place in the next 2-3 months, I'll probably head out and start PvPing in a game that is built more around that style.

 

It's kind of hard to justify staying if there's a game I get to purchase with great PvP where this is no monthly fee. What's not to like there? Although I will admit I like the sci-fi setting more than the straight-up fantasy one. But then again, gameplay is probably more important.

[richardya]

Unlike TOR or WoW you will never get blown up in seconds, you will have time to recover and 1v1 can take an eternity so people rather play in groups.

 

Seemed like it was all about numbers and not skill. I did like the use of the environment with the castles, shooting down at invaders. It looks like the launch will be very fun, that game looks ike it will be great at the beginning but will die very fast once the enthusiasm ends. I liked the way maps looked as well. The graphics looked cool but the animations looked terrible to me.

 

ToR open world had the easiest fix, limit the amount (per faction) of players zoning in, to the opposing faction, which they never did. When it had equal numbers it was actually pretty fun.

Edited April 30, 2012 by richardya

[Phantomlimbs]

Like all (and I mean all) of my friends, I will be switching to said game. This weekend was the last straw with our hodge-podge of Imps queueing up against the 8 pubs that pvp on our server (therefore it's basically a pre-made because they are all very competent players).

 

The server populations cannot currently support a healthy pvp community. Server xfers or even mergers should have already happened.

 

I know from talking to several regular pvpers on my server that they will be hanging up the reins once their free 30 days is up, but I couldn't even make it that far.

 

No you can't 'haz my stuffz' - I may come back if there are a lot of changes in the right direction made.

[TUXs]

As I finished beta weekend for a new up and coming MMO that is also fantasy based I found myself asking the question: If this game -TOR- was not based in the Star Wars universe, would I play and enjoy its PvP?

 

I play because it's a sci-fi MMO, Star Wars makes it all the better. I'm an avid PvP fan in MMOs, but there is NOTHING I find enjoyable about the PvP in this game. Warzones are NOT PvP...they are worthless mini games meant to remove PvP from the open world. 3 or 4 rotating maps is NOT fun. Ilum, for as absolutely inconceivably poorly as it was designed, was still better than JUST warzones.

[Vulgarr]

I waited eagerly for this game to launch since it was first talked about.

 

1) It's Star Wars. Yes, I'm a huge fanboy.

2) It's BioWare. KOTOR I and II were awesome games, as were many others.

3) There were a lot of promises made about engaging and rewarding PvP.

 

Having played this game since day one of early access, it's the lore and environment that keep me playing. If this were any other setting, I would've dropped my sub the day 1.2 went live...possibly even sooner. It sucks when good small companies get bought out by large megacorps and lose their identity, which is what happened when EA bought BioWare. I think all their creativity got sucked out of them.

 

Even more important than that, the PvP development team just flat out needs to be FIRED. I for damn sure know that if I failed to do my job for several months, I'd be sent packing. That's what needs to happen here. They just aren't getting it done, and it seemingly gets worse with every patch.

 

I'm playing on borrowed time. After my freebie 31 days are up, there's really nothing keeping me in this game unless there are some massive improvements to PvP.

 

this. ive already made my decision, the only way they are going to keep me playing this game is a revert to pvp the way it was before 1.2 ( longer TTK) and massive efforts in world pvp. AND MAKE MY ARSENAL MERC ACTUALLY USABLE IN PVP AGAIN!

 

i know its not going to happen. they screwed everything that has to do with pvp up COMPLETELY.

 

so my moneys going to the other game you guys are talking about. ill be canceling my swtor account on the last day of my free time.

[richardya]

Ithere is NOTHING I find enjoyable about the PvP in this game. Warzones are NOT PvP...they are worthless mini games meant to remove PvP from the open world. 3 or 4 rotating maps is NOT fun..

 

SWToR PvP is extremely successful. The % of the playerbase that PvP is way higher than WoW or EQ or any other similar MMO.

[slovakiaman]

No and iam done with Swtor. Its just too boring for me already cuz i dont care about pve and pvp in sw is just lame grinding in same 4 warzones.

[TUXs]

SWToR PvP is extremely successful. The % of the playerbase that PvP is way higher than WoW or EQ or any other similar MMO.

 

That wasn't the question asked. I don't care what w0w or eq offer, I care about the worthless PvP in THIS game. If I gave a **edit** about any other game, I'd be playing it.

 

SWTOR was sold as a game with PvP as a selling point and they even tossed in the obligatory PvP servers. Since release, they have REMOVED content from PvP, including the ONLY incentive for any open world type PvP. Warzones SUCK IMO. You can like them, I don't. The ONLY reason I play them is for the pseudo PvP environment and to get the flippin rewards. NOT because it's "fun".

[Silwyth]

I'm here because it is one of the few MMOs out there with a sci-fi ip, I am sick to death of fantasy games. I gave EVE the old college try, but come on point and click interface (LOL)? As for that "other game" unless things have changed drastically from the last closed beta I will not be playing it. Movement was very clunky, strafing slowed you down and god forbid you didn't change the binding for 's' key and accidentally hit it. Then there was the class balance. Being able to cast on the run is a good idea, but the way the implemented it, with the low cds on snares and roots, made certain classes uncatchable. Leading to a kind of OP I haven't seen since DKs right after WotLK came out.

[RStoney]

You can basically pick one of three types of PvP in today's gaming world. You can pick the gear based PvP where the best gear wins (SWTOR, WoW etc), or pick the games where everyone has the same level and skill but it comes down to tricks and the team with the newest or best gimicks win, or you can pick the twitch style shootem up PvP games. Comparing the three is pretty much pointless as there is really no comparison between the three, they are all just completely different styles.

 

Will agree with this as a mechanic of implementing PvP, but there is also an over-arching role in each of these.

Hitting the main types (and yes, there are more you can add)

1) Support focus

2) Damage focus

 

In #1, you are unlikely to see the large kill numbers (current vernacular is high TTK) because the battle is centered on who can bring the best support functions to bear. This favors the tank and healer/cc roles in traditional MMO sense.

 

In #2, you have a low TTK, will see very high kill numbers, and the battle is centered on who can basically keep the other team in the 'penalty box" respawn area the most. This obviously favors the damage output classes.

 

IMHO - pre 1.2, we had #1. Post 1.2, we have #2. This notion is supported by BW only commentary.

 

Which is better? My answer would be the pre1.2. (Everyone else can decide their own answer.) Think - in normal content PvE, do you really really enjoy endless quest of "run over here, kill x number of baddies" Well, the ones who like more strategic thinking - the answer is no. You like to run over here, see if there is a way to get by the baddies, or go around them in some creative way. If you just like to swat things - well, really fun at first - but unless your game time is a bit here and there, you probably get tired of just bashing things mindlessly.

 

Now, here is where the flame-wars will start. Yes, you can have your own opinion and disagree with mine, but...this is mine. Deal.

 

If you keep PvP as a run and bash event, then the only "real" objective is keeping your opponents in the penalty box. Everything else is just clicks. For the majority - it will get old fast. Sure, there will be a segment of folks who just get glee from melting the other side, but will get VERY unhappy when they cannot do such. Note - this is the only "metric" that matters in a damage focused environment. "Epic" battles, where it comes down to who can manage to *just* get that last point, or hang onto it just a little longer? Not in the real objective, which is again, keeping opponents in penalty box. Going to be the one spending all the time in the penalty box? HHmm..that ain't so fun now - maybe I should just leave the WZ. Then we get troll threads on why a declining PvP environment should introduce penalties to "force" people to play. (Hint folks - that really isn't going to work)

 

Change it back to the more strategic play. Sure, the damage folks are there to send folks to the penalty box. In PvP that is really their job no matter what. And the better you do that, the better your team does. But now you have to contend with all the "support" functions as well. You have to find those pesky healers. You have to deal with the tanks. Tanks have to know when to stand ground, give ground, and lead others out of the meaningful fight area. Healers have to over-watch the entire battle, as well as what is in front of them. DPSers have to bring that damage to the spot it does most good.

 

IMHO - THIS is what produces the 'epic" battles that the majority really enjoy and will come back again and again for. Why ? In short terms - you spend more time in the battle area, and less time in the penalty box!

 

Now - let's deal with the inevitable "but I am <insert non-dps type here>, and I can still play WZs - you just need to L2P"

*sigh*

Okay - let's see a show of hands who LIKES low-population servers, low population PvP, constantly seeing the same folks each and every game IF/WHEN your queue window pop? Who likes the PvP play that is basically the same - run in, kill/be kill, TTK >10 seconds if you are not the dominate team, lather rinse repeat ad nauseum?

Because that is exactly what you are going to get. Why ? Because there is only ONE objective/ONE point/ONE goal - keep other team in penalty box. Guess what - keep newer players coming into the PvP scene locked in that respawn area (and please get this point - it is important) THEY STOP COMING !! First symptom of this? Let me help you - They queue into PvP, realize it is going to be nothing but under 10 second stompings for them, and they leave. (Now - you are on here complaining that penalties are needed, you are not having fun, etc etc etc etc)

 

Now, I don't care about your favorite class type/hybrid/pure spec leanings. In one aspect, we all want the same thing - LOTS OF PEOPLE PVP'ing !!! My personal opinion is that the current "balance" / focus choice is the wrong one. Sure, it caters well to the "I have to pwn everyone, look how awesome I am with mad skillz, high killz" group, but is that the only people you want in your PvP system? Hint - not if you want lots of people.

 

 

If you happen to be the type that really likes the penalty box area/respawn point, please disregard all of this posting. it doesn't apply to you. Take off all your gear, go into PvP (game matters not) and there will be plenty of people willing to help you out, no matter what the play style.

[Xerain]

Actually, I wished PvP WAS more like Star Wars, than copied from one generic messy MMO(WoW). I really dont understand why Bioware have a fascination in 'death within 20 seconds'. When I come up against Smugglers, I get so annoyed because they simply have far too many stuns and a knock back better than a force user!

 

This left me wondering how many times I saw Han Solo running around in combat, stunning the enemy, knocking them back 20 metres etc - well he didnt.

 

Given the lack of any kind of open world pvp now, Warzones have become the only staple of pvp action. After playing the latest offering, Novare Coast - its clear Bioware just dont want any kind of war in this game. Hell, even Novare Coast isnt a real warzone - its a 'war simulation'.

 

For once, Bioware should stop trying to wrap everyone up in cotton wool and actually flex some creative muscle and give those who wish to pvp the ability to raid other planets, capture bunkers for faction buffs(like GW2 does with its World v World)

 

I hope you're talking about gunslingers.

 

The warzones are fine in this game and Novare is probably the best one yet as it's not tiny, i feel all the other war zones areas are far too tiny for 8 people and it's kinda dumb.

 

Hopefully we get some better world pvp in the future, in beta it was said that pretty much every one of the planets except starters and probably taris and balmorra will have some type of pvp area on them. Hopefully they do an instance of taris and balmorra.

[YanksfanJP]

If It Wasn't Star Wars, Would You PvP?

 

Hell, if it wasn't Star Wars, I wouldn't be playing this game at all.

[AltruisticRage]

On topic, the main reason I am currently playing this game is because my best friends from WoW moved over. At the beginning, I thought this game had all of the opportunity in the world to challenge WoW. I got seriously into PvP (which never happened in WoW).

 

So, I would PvP if it was or wasn't SW because of my friends. That being said, "that other game" looks very interesting and I am disappointed I missed the BWE.

 

SWToR PvP is extremely successful. The % of the playerbase that PvP is way higher than WoW or EQ or any other similar MMO.

 

I can't substantiate this nor did you supply a source. If this is true, which I would believe based on personal experience with the game, the reason such a high % of the playerbase PvPs is because their is basically nothing else to do.

 

If you consider that as making SW PvP successful, more power to you. I disagree that is "successful" in my eyes. I PvP because there is nothing else to do when we aren't doing Operations. And it is not really fun anymore since 1.2 launched as a healer.

 

To all those defending the PvP, we will see where we end up after the free month. You have me until June 22, Bioware. The ball is in your court.

Edited April 30, 2012 by AltruisticRage

[KhalDrogoe]

I thought the point of Star WARS WAS pvp...

[RStoney]

if it wasn't star wars, would you pvp?

 

Hell, if it wasn't star wars, i wouldn't be playing this game at all.

 

this !

[kirorx]

I despise fantasy stuff, didnt even like harry potter

 

I love all things starwars, so i play this game.

 

(i understand there is some degree of irony in my view, but i hate elves and dwarfs).

[LukeStormstout]

No I would not; Huttball was the exception until patch 1.2. Huttball most of the time has become team deathmatch.

[VoidJustice]

If it wasn't starwars I'd prolly /unsub

[Audenlol]

if this game was not Star Wars, I would of quit a long time ago.

 

The game itself is mediocre.

 

But nothing else really out there to play.

[DarkDruidSS]

SWTOR is balanced enough that PvP is very enjoyable to me. I like character progression and I feel that any game lacking character progression will not last long in today's industry. Even FPS games have character progression now in multiplayer. I probably wouldn't play BF3 anymore if I didn't have things to work towards like more ranks, more unlocks and attachments.

 

BW did a lot of stuff right and no other game can deliver in those areas, but also BW made mistakes and straight lied about features that didn't make it for release. The game is still enjoyable to me and I don't see anyhting else worth my time or money at the moment. BW/EA have the funds to make this game great and right now I am content giving them the opportunity.

 

Now come end of the year when another PvP game rolls out with 3 faction PvP... I will have to seriously consider where SWTOR stands at that point. Until then I think I will be here for awhile.

[ssbi]

To be honest i would, anyway the launch was succesful, there were nothing else to play tbh, well apart of WoW, but i got tiered of WoW 5 years ago, so...

 

Moving to the mentioned game as soon as it released.

[AltruisticRage]

SWTOR is balanced enough that PvP is very enjoyable to me. I like character progression and I feel that any game lacking character progression will not last long in today's industry. Even FPS games have character progression now in multiplayer. I probably wouldn't play BF3 anymore if I didn't have things to work towards like more ranks, more unlocks and attachments.

 

As an old school gamer who played Q3 and Unreal (and other similar games), I think the unlock system and grinds put into games like this and now shooters have ruined the multiplayer aspects of the games. I can't tell you how many hours I logged into a tactical realism mod for Call of Duty (the original). There were no unlocks. The game was just good. You played to dominate the people because PvP was fun, not that you wanted to unlock a scope.

 

PvP in any game should be about the PvP, not about unlocks. Especially this game where you basically need full BM to have any chance at surviving. The first few weeks of 1.2 PvP were hell and after getting full BM it isn't much better now.

Edited April 30, 2012 by AltruisticRage

[ShavedEwok]

To begin with, it's getting more and more questionable to me whether this game even is Star Wars in its true and proper sense anymore.

 

I say this because of the horrid black lightsabers, visually force corrupted non-force users which together with the recent 1.2 high level gear designs makes me seriously question BioWare's level of seriousness when it comes to respecting this IP.

 

And no, to be perfectly honest the only reason I currently play and PvP is due to whatever remains of "Star Wars" in the game. Although considering the fact that the development seems to have been hijacked by the loudest crying kiddies with no sense of taste or moderation whatsoever, then given enough time there might not be much left resembling the IP as some of us know it.

 

As for the PvP in particular, IMO it's certainly not as fun anymore mainly due to the following:

 

 

 

• Imbalanced and low server populations.
   
   
  
• TTK is down too much post 1.2.
   
   
  
• Pugging it and being forced to face premades.
   
   
  
• Getting thrown into losing Warzones (e.g. 2 minutes left on a Huttball match and under by 5 points).
   
   
  
• Non-existent open world PvP.
   
   
  
• Must admit the stunfest is getting a bit tiresome by now.
  

 

I'm currently in full Battlemaster and PvP is my main activity in game. I don't have the time nor inclination to group up or commit to more organized teamplay. So before anyone responds to my "pug vs premade" point by saying "just join a premade": No, anyone should be able to play as casual and compete against other casuals. It's a perfectly valid playstyle and a most reasonable request, or else there wouldn't even be an option to solo queue in the first place.

 

Granted, a lot of the stuff I listed above can be fixed, but the question is how long it will take. I can't speak for anyone else, but pretty much all of my guildies/RL friends have left the game months ago and don't seem the least tempted to return, at least not at the moment.

 

Finally, can't say much about the "other game" as I didn't participate in the weekend beta. Don't have the motivation to pre-purchase in order to try it out. It seems kinda cool I guess, but frankly, I'm sick and tired of the Fantasy genre. I've had it with trolls, dragons and elves in tights. I might check it out later but now I'm just happy for those who tried it and liked it; good for you and enjoy.

 

Me, I guess I'll stick around for a while, but as I said I'm already on the verge of what I can take from this game. Every time I see someone with a black saber I die a little inside. And if the day comes when I stop getting the Star Wars feeling from this game, then I honestly don't know.

 

SE

Edited April 30, 2012 by ShavedEwok

[TonyDragonflame]

I am a big star wars fan last 20 years, and I'll be never plays in pvp game if it was not star wars.

[DarkDruidSS]

As an old school gamer who played Q3 and Unreal (and other similar games), I think the unlock system and grinds put into games like this and now shooters have ruined the multiplayer aspects of the games. I can't tell you how many hours I logged into a tactical realism mod for Call of Duty (the original). There were no unlocks. The game was just good. You played to dominate the people because PvP was fun, not that you wanted to unlock a scope.

 

PvP in any game should be about the PvP, not about unlocks. Especially this game where you basically need full BM to have any chance at surviving. The first few weeks of 1.2 PvP were hell and after getting full BM it isn't much better now.

 

You're right. As an old school gamer I know how games USED to be, but that is in the past. I grew up with Quake, Unreal, Rainbow Six, and Counter Strike (it was a free mod then). Hell I had a Dragonball Z quake mod... probably the coolest mod I have seen besides Counter Strike...

 

The problem is that we are so used to having progression in every game we get now. That it is the norm and I have a hard time believing that the vast majority of people will play a game that doesn't have it for very long. There is a reason that Call of Duty, Battlefield and Halo all have character progression now. It isn't to appease the hardcore PvPer's. It's to get everyone else to play and stay playing because that is the only hook that will last.