Change to undying rage proposal

[LiveandDieinLA]

They are in the middle just as much as any other melee dps, who have nowhere near the CDs maras do. Or maybe the others don't just dive into the middle of the zerg because they know they CAN'T?!?

 

And you all seem to be under the impression that ranged only shoot at melee....

 

Snipers sorcs, mercs are all ranged and should never me "in the middle". Assassins and operatives are "in the middle" but they have ranged abilities that are worth something, and stealth. So what dps classes are you referring to? Powertechs? They dont have as many defensive cds, instead they have offensive cds, and put out the most damage of any class. Juggs? Juggs have heavy armor, and also have some of the best defensive cds/ procs in the game.

[Derian]

Snipers sorcs, mercs are all ranged and should never me "in the middle". Assassins and operatives are "in the middle" but they have ranged abilities that are worth something, and stealth. So what dps classes are you referring to? Powertechs? They dont have as many defensive cds, instead they have offensive cds, and put out the most damage of any class. Juggs? Juggs have heavy armor, and also have some of the best defensive cds/ procs in the game.

 

PTs can also taunt.

[cashogy]

But maras don't cover two roles. They've got one role: DPS. Within that role they have two modes of operation:

1) Dealing damage

2) Being dead

 

Without their cooldowns they spend too much time being dead to be any use to anyone, duel a mara/sent who you know will go "all out" without using his defense cooldowns, they drop like a stone.

 

but what marauder doesnt use their cooldowns? bad ones maybe? idk, that seems like a very stupid hypothetical.

 

when you balance a class the basic assumption is that the player understands what ability does what and when to use them.

 

the short term abilities marauders have make them very difficult to kill. combine that with the best damage potential in the game and you have a game breaker. other dps classea are able to dish out a lot of damage at the trade-off of very limited independent survivability. marauders have a ton of independent survivability, which causes a bit of unbalancing.

 

i have a bad feeling that bioware is going to bring the nerf hammer down hard on marauders because of the complete lack of intelligent discord on these forums. people are either screaming for an operative style nerf, or they are screaming that marauder has zero balance issues at all. there are very few posts on the forums that look at the issue analytically. because it seems bioware makes changes to classes based on the overall attitude on the forums, that does not bode well for marauders

Edited April 30, 2012 by cashogy

[LiveandDieinLA]

edit: eh, not worth it. Edited April 30, 2012 by LiveandDieinLA

[Anbokr]

"What you did there" was pick the other class that has ridiculous amounts of powerful abilities....

 

Haha ok, let's pick out sorcs. Sorcs have access to a low CD damage absorbtion, a pull is absolutely broken in huttball, dps sorcs can off heal very well, sorcs have a low CD sprint to get away, they have a knockback with a root to escape, they have slows attached to their main damaging abilities, they have the ability to burst if left to free cast, they have a hard stun and great AoE.

 

You can write a vague paragraph listing off the strengths of classes for every single spec/class in the game. Every spec has cool, powerful abilities. Balancing doesn't revolve around this; it's simply in the math. Point out specific abilities that seem broken (i.e. undying rage, heatseeker missile, guard, etc...) or multiple abilities that interact to be insanely broken.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Anbokr

[Diddley]

Give it to every other class in game, obviously. Edited April 30, 2012 by Diddley

[Dacer]

Almost all if you missed it.

[Odahviin]

Haha ok, let's pick out sorcs. Sorcs have access to a low CD damage absorbtion, a pull is absolutely broken in huttball, dps sorcs can off heal very well, sorcs have a low CD sprint to get away, they have a knockback with a root to escape, they have slows attached to their main damaging abilities, they have the ability to burst if left to free cast, they have a hard stun and great AoE.

 

You can write a vague paragraph listing off the strengths of classes for every single spec/class in the game. Every spec has cool, powerful abilities; balancing is simply in the math. Balancing doesn't revolve around this. Point out specific abilities that seem broken (i.e. undying rage, heatseeker missile, guard, etc...) or multiple abilities that interact to be insanely broken.

 

Yeah you don't hear sorcs moaning that they can heal for 150k and still dmg for 100k in a match.....thats not an issue at all. I mean it's not like they can do everything right?

 

The above poster is correct, Mara / Sents are not a tanking class......they can't taunt or shield or intercede or divert damage from another class through a skill ability. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to go back and check the AC descriptions.

 

We don't get access to healing / tanking commendation rewards and we don't have the utility of a pure stealth class.

 

but your right take the defensive cooldowns away from us, all you will achieve is the destruction of one AC congrats and gg. QQuers

Edited April 30, 2012 by Odahviin

[Anbokr]

The truth is, "Hybrids" in this game have three ways that set themselves apart from marauders/snipers--stealth, guard/taunt, or healing (sometimes 2/3). Thus, in return marauders as a melee get strong defensive cooldowns (since they are always in the center), and snipers get the best kiting abilities in the game and are essentially the anti-melee. Both get group buffs.

 

I'm pretty sure BW knows and has known throughout the entire beta that obviously undying rage is only used at low hp (a lot of people cite this as an oversight, "omg undying rage meant to take 50% of hp away but all marauders pop at 10% anyway"). This is it's weakness as much as it is it's strength (a good design choice frankly). On my operative, the second I get a marauder around 30-40%, I stun him and finish him off with ease. If he trinkets the stun, I can simply flashbang him for the duration of undying rage. Most classes in this game have a stun/mezz/knockback, etc... and predicting the undying rage (it's very predictable) becomes your greatest weapon against a marauder.

 

A tankassin is much more difficult as he will simply pop his 5 second force cloak at anytime, maybe even 75%--you have no way of preventing/predicting this and by popping it early he effectively gimps you in your little 1v1, 2v1, or w/e.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Anbokr

[Siorac]

Snipers sorcs, mercs are all ranged and should never me "in the middle". Assassins and operatives are "in the middle" but they have ranged abilities that are worth something, and stealth. So what dps classes are you referring to? Powertechs? They dont have as many defensive cds, instead they have offensive cds, and put out the most damage of any class. Juggs? Juggs have heavy armor, and also have some of the best defensive cds/ procs in the game.

 

Heavy armour gives some almost insignificant advantage compared to medium armour in PvP. Most attacks bypass armour. DPS Guardians/Juggernauts also have to be in the middle of the fight, in the face of everyone, eating up all the AoE damage and what defensive cooldowns we have? Saber Ward - Sentinels have that too although our version is slightly better. And that's it. You can count Enure with its 30% health increase for 10 seconds but compared to Guarded by the Force or Force Camouflage it's pitiful. Focused Defense is OK but 1) you have to take damage for that to heal you, 2) it eats basically all your resources for a relatively insignificant heal.

 

A full Vigilance Guardian/Vengeance Juggernaut is as much a pure melee damage dealer as the Sentinel/Marauder except, you know, they do a lot less damage and have a lot less survivability. Yes, you can taunt. That doesn't really help to survive though.

[Karkais]

edit: eh, not worth it.

 

Yeah, I agree. I find it extremely difficult to post in pvp forum without insulting someone and getting warnings again, since most people dont even read other peoples posts here, let alone comprehend their meaning.

[Nyaara]

We are starting to see a lot of marauders in wz. Bad sign for them. Nerf incoming. Marauders should be played by guys who love that class, not cos is FOTM.

 

End of story. BW is not stupid. We should see some changes anytime soon. Like Ops or Sorcs before. Just sit and wait.

[stinkybird]

Why would a pure dps have a defensive cd? Because we don't have any real form of permanent defense.

The fact that they are in the middle of everything constantly...at least if they are doing their job, they simply cannot survive without any defensive CD's. No defensive Cd's = no dps = waste of a class. You are only looking at things from a very narrow minded point of view. If you have the class so figured out, I suggest you lvl one to 50 and play WZ's without ever touching your defensive CD's. Your damage would prob be around 50k. I understand it is easier to cry for a nerf than it is to learn how to play effectively....but people like you are ruining whats left of this game. It started with the over nerfing of operatives and will keep infecting every class as long as people like you refuse to learn to play.

 

umm ya a pure DPS class should not have better Defensive CDs than a tank class. you dubble in damage than say a gaurdian/jugg and yet you also have better defensive CDs. dose that make sence to you or you just crying cause you dont want your class to get nerf'd in any way. are you saying that if you play a gaurdian/jugg that you have to be in tank spec or else you are going to be the sqishest class ever to wear heavy armor. we are also in the middle of everything but mara/sents have more survivablity than a heavy armored tank AC. Mara/sents already have an OP amount of damage why in the world should you have the best CD in game.

[exphryl]

The truth is, "Hybrids" in this game have three ways that set themselves apart from marauders/snipers--stealth, guard/taunt, or healing (sometimes 2/3). Thus, in return marauders as a melee get strong defensive cooldowns (since they are always in the center), and snipers get the best kiting abilities in the game and are essentially the anti-melee. Both get group buffs.

.

 

Predation is single handily one of the best group buffs in the game and will be critical in Ranked Warzones. ( not to mention Bloodthirst)

 

Guess what class has that? Oh yeah, the one people say can only do DPS and bring nothing else to the warzone.

[stinkybird]

Snipers sorcs, mercs are all ranged and should never me "in the middle". Assassins and operatives are "in the middle" but they have ranged abilities that are worth something, and stealth. So what dps classes are you referring to? Powertechs? They dont have as many defensive cds, instead they have offensive cds, and put out the most damage of any class. Juggs? Juggs have heavy armor, and also have some of the best defensive cds/ procs in the game.

 

Jugg/gaurdians do not have good defensive CDs outside of full tank spec. these classes go down faster than any other melee cause of it. you get one CD in the Vig/Veng tree and its a joke of a talent cause to be honest it cost too much to use and dose little to nothing in return. heavy armor means nothing in this game we are the same amount of sqishy as a light armor outside of tank spec/geared. Mara/sents are able to survive far more than these classes and also put out dubble the damage.

 

what is sounds like is people just seem to expect all jugg/gaurdians to only play tank spec.

[cycao]

I dont have a huge issue with this ability. I just stun if its up and kite the heck out of them its only 5 seconds.

[Bpotux]

Increase the CD to 3 min

Or

Reduce damage done while its active by 50%

Or

Reduce the duration to 3 seconds

[Aetou]

Increase the CD to 3 min

Or

Reduce damage done while its active by 50%

Or

Reduce the duration to 3 seconds

 

Or, as has already been mentioned, add a healing received debuff to the ability. Being able to stay fighting for an extra 5s is a huge ability even if you die at the end of it, being able to stay fighting for that extra 5s and then going on fighting too... that's where the issue is.

[stinkybird]

Increase the CD to 3 min

Or

Reduce damage done while its active by 50%

Or

Reduce the duration to 3 seconds

 

one of these would be great.

[Bpotux]

Or, as has already been mentioned, add a healing received debuff to the ability. Being able to stay fighting for an extra 5s is a huge ability even if you die at the end of it, being able to stay fighting for that extra 5s and then going on fighting too... that's where the issue is.

 

There is already a healing debuff with a near 100% uptime in wz. Who cares about healing when you take no damage for enough time to wreck two people and disappear?

[Serrowherrow]

Predation is single handily one of the best group buffs in the game and will be critical in Ranked Warzones. ( not to mention Bloodthirst)

 

Guess what class has that? Oh yeah, the one people say can only do DPS and bring nothing else to the warzone.

 

Quick question, why is blood thirst 'critical' for ranked warzones? Predation fine, but I don't think a 1% healing group buff is going to save someone if they're about to die.

[exphryl]

Quick question, why is blood thirst 'critical' for ranked warzones? Predation fine, but I don't think a 1% healing group buff is going to save someone if they're about to die.

 

The damage increase of 15%

 

Helps break turtles and pushes on points greatly when it's available.

[doctorfirepants]

umm ya a pure DPS class should not have better Defensive CDs than a tank class. you dubble in damage than say a gaurdian/jugg and yet you also have better defensive CDs. dose that make sence to you or you just crying cause you dont want your class to get nerf'd in any way. are you saying that if you play a gaurdian/jugg that you have to be in tank spec or else you are going to be the sqishest class ever to wear heavy armor. we are also in the middle of everything but mara/sents have more survivablity than a heavy armored tank AC. Mara/sents already have an OP amount of damage why in the world should you have the best CD in game.

 

If your playing as a tank and can't outlive a dps class then your just bad. I've seen those guys walk around getting pounded on with barely taking a dent. What part of we only get better survivability for 5 seconds do you fail to understand. 5 seconds that is easily controlled. Are you just crying because you realized that you wasted your life in a game that your no good at? Additionally if your a jugg and not playing a tank spec, then you can't cry saying that it's no fair that marauders have more defensive CD's than a tank, because you are no longer a tank and you have your own utilities for survival. If heavy armor is a joke in this game, imagine what medium armor must be like. Mar/sent damage is in no way op, they are a pure dps class that should put out a lot of dps and other classes have the ability to put out a lot more. After 1.2 it is still BH's and Sorc's that are topping the damage charts the majority of the time.

[HurricaneXXIV]

Sents/Maras can tank better then tanks for 5 seconds, you can't even make it from the ramp to the end zone in that time if there is even a single snare, knock back or stun.

 

Sents have 1 root breaker, it's same one every other class has. They have an option to spec into a second, though the bulk of the good sents don't go more than 3-7 points into that tree.

[Dacer]

Okay- let's just throw away undying rage as it is an get rid of it as a defensive completely. All you inquisitors and tracer/gravs spammers can rejoice.

 

Since this game is only supposed to be balanced for pvp.... right? Last I checked my super op tanking marauder wasn't able to tank EV or KP.

 

Anyway most of you Are saying things like - they are dps thy have their damage - yea we have our single target dps

(because lets be honest no one is complaining about rage marauders) so let's go with that. Instead of undying rage being a defensive CD it should increase all damage dealt by 50%+ for 4 seconds with a 1m 30 cool down . That way you can stop QQing about not knowing how to deal with a marauders 5 seconds of -99 damage that consumes 50% of current health.

 

 

There now we have our damage and you can stop crying about our survivability .

 

 

But I'm sure you'll hate that too....

Edited April 30, 2012 by Dacer