If SWTOR goes free to play it may save the ship from exploding

[VicSkimmr]

Surprisingly, the only reason for companies to make games are $$$. Or €€€.

 

:sy_auction: IMO

Edited April 26, 2012 by VicSkimmr

[Asturias]

OP your smoking crack, this game is far from free to play and thank god for it. I don't want a sub par game to play or to play to win. Free to play as you call it gamesto suck. I just resubed for 6 months and I plan on getting my son his own account this weekend. All my friends resubed after 1.2 and they love the changes. This game is far from dying and BioWARE has been doing a great job in answering there community and fixing problems. Edited April 26, 2012 by Asturias

[LilSaihah]

I'd rather the game be subscriptionless with B2P content. I personally find the subscription model to be less than satisfactory; knowing exactly what you're paying for is more satisfying than paying a monthly fee which goes God knows where. It helps with the developers, too: they know where to focus their content.

[Cerion]

I'd rather the game be subscriptionless with B2P content. I personally find the subscription model to be less than satisfactory; knowing exactly what you're paying for is more satisfying than paying a monthly fee which goes God knows where. It helps with the developers, too: they know where to focus their content.

 

I will agree that certain models of f2p are useful. I play DDO on occasion. I pay for only the modules I want to play. I don't buy the Raid modules, nor the modules that are high level as my characters aren't that experienced.

 

In that sense, the f2p model is nice because it means my money isn't subsidizing a playstyle that I don't participate in. If you play WoW, and don't raid at all, your subscription is subsidizing all those Raid play and Raid hours. If only Raiders payed for Raid content, you'd see a lot less Raid content. This has in fact happened in f2p models.

[Galbatorrix]

Subscription based = designers can make content based off fun, balance, etc. They want more subs, so the people that are currently subbed normally get content regularly because the developers are trying to lure people to the game.

 

F2P = if they can't sell the content, it isn't worth making for them. Want to make your character OP? Give me 10 bucks! Want to participate in this cool world event? 5 dolla make you holla! These type games end up costing you just as much or more than sub based games and they also promote pay to win models because they know it's the easiest way to make a quick buck.

 

 

Again, I'll continue to pay $.50 a day and have all access to everything the game has to offer... including any and all future content.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Galbatorrix

[Jarazar]

I am curious to see how GW2 changes the MMO industry. If their launch breaks records, I would imagine developers will definitely look at their B2P model for future titles.

 

I am not a Guild Wars fan by the way...

[Tickdoff-Tank]

I will agree that certain models of f2p are useful. I play DDO on occasion. I pay for only the modules I want to play. I don't buy the Raid modules, nor the modules that are high level as my characters aren't that experienced.

 

In that sense, the f2p model is nice because it means my money isn't subsidizing a playstyle that I don't participate in. If you play WoW, and don't raid at all, your subscription is subsidizing all those Raid play and Raid hours. If only Raiders payed for Raid content, you'd see a lot less Raid content. This has in fact happened in f2p models.

 

F2P can be a workable solution for many games, but in general, a game which begins as subscription based and then moves to a F2P (or hybrid) model is doing so because of a drop in subscriptions, or a prolonged period of no growth. (I believe CoH moved to the F2P hybrid that it currently is because it was no longer grwoing at the rate they wanted it to). Just because a title goes F2P does not mean it is dead. CoH is now putting out some pretty interesting stuff (if you like CoH at all that is), and DDO has grown quite a bit since they went F2P.

 

It bears mentioning that DDO is one of the only F2P MMOS that I know of that can actually be Free.. you can unlock EVERYTHING in that game without ever paying a penny. It takes a lot of time, you need to know what you are doing and should most likely follow some of the guides on the forums to maximize your Turbine Point income/expenditures, but I know several people that have almost everything unlocked that they want to play (they skip some of the low level stuff that is not worth the price), but they are still raiders and very active players that are able to enjoy all of the end game content, it just took them a little longer to get there.

 

But, I don't think SWTOR will be going this route for a LONG time, if ever. If it ever does happen, I would not expect it to be seriously considered untill 2014 or later. This game is currently too strong (and getting better) for a F2P model to be seriously considered, IMO.

[Asuka]

It's not going f2p so no point in talking about it. Instead don't be cheap and pay if you want to play and don't if you don't.

[utio]

Edited to nothingness due to posting without thinking. Edited April 26, 2012 by utio

[Solo_Han]

F2P games are not free to play... all of them still charge the equivalent of a normal subscription fee for things like bank space and character slots. Moreover you still have to pay for DLC things that are now "free" with a subscription. Imagine having to pay for the rakghoul event access, that's the "F2P" model.

 

$0.50 a day, that's it. You can't even buy a can of coke for that price. I used to blow greater than $10.00 in a night at an arcade back in the day. I'm more than happy to pay the fee.

 

my 2 cp.

 

To my mind, every game that has moved from pay to play ~> free to play, has always adopted a hybrid setup.

 

You can still subscribe and play exactly as you did before. You can also play for free, and choose if you want to purchase higher level content, bag space, etc.

 

That model has proven to work incredibly effectively. Games like LotRO and DDO have used it to become massively profitable. I've played both to a fairly high level, and enjoyed both of them. Would I of purchased the game as a sub? No, I don't think I would have... Would I download it and play it for free, then spend some cash on it to further my fun, if that seemed like a good idea? Yes, I would, and I have. I even subscribed to DDO for a couple of months and had a blast.

 

Just because a game goes f2p doesn't mean it makes less money, and doesn't mean that it's a sign it's doing badly. Free to play is the future believe it or not. SWTOR was pipped as being the last serious pay to play game that was ever going to be released (source: GameSpot analyst). It's failure to capture a large market share just pays homage to the fact that the pay to play model is failing, and consumers, as well as developers/producers are slowly moving away from it.

[Mia_Sohma]

Like many others, if this game went F2P I would absolutely HATE it.

 

I started playing LOTRO after it went F2P (I'd never played it before) and I sort of liked it... but what drove me away was the constant 'BUY THIS FROM OUR STORE!' 'IF YOU WANT TO UNLOCK THIS, BUY IT!' shameful advertising throughout. Like the time I walked through a zone (it took AGES) in order to hand in a quest concerning horses and mounts, only to be told by the NPC when I got there that I could only get one if I paid -_-

 

No no no.

 

F2P games never last very long for me... especially as I'm a long-time WoW subber and I always think: 'well, why play a game that's free when I can play the one I'm paying for?'

 

I love this game. For me, the main source of appeal that SW:TOR has over WoW is the fact that it's so story-driven and not every milestone is level-based.

Sure, it has its problems and admittedly I don't play it as much as I do WoW (it took me months of agonising in order to justify paying two subs for both games lol), and since all my friends have left, I spend all my time on it solo questing and levelling, but I am happy to continue paying for it because I think it's freaking AWESOME.

 

If I can continue to afford to sub for both games, I certainly will. If this game does go F2P (which I very much doubt it will do), I will be sad and will probably end up deleting it, like I have every F2P game I have tried.

[Cortese]

It won't go F2P for a very long time if ever.

 

 

 

Honest.... I just canceled not a single one of the people i know is playing it as of last week, they are just and I quote "bored and tired of wasting time standing around"..

 

 

Good luck.

[GreySix]

People need to stop calling it Free to Play. It's a marketing gimmick. The reason all these companies are moving towards that model is because it makes them more money.

 

Companies execute decisions in order to make more money? What the heck! Now my perception of reality is shattered. Why from reading many of these posts, I figured their intent was to cater to the one percent of heavy complainers.

 

Excuse me while I reevaluate my life.

[WereMops]

 

 

Honest.... I just canceled not a single one of the people i know is playing it as of last week, they are just and I quote "bored and tired of wasting time standing around"..

 

 

Good luck.

 

I'd think this is more accurate

 

[mokkh]

To my mind, every game that has moved from pay to play ~> free to play, has always adopted a hybrid setup.

 

You can still subscribe and play exactly as you did before. You can also play for free, and choose if you want to purchase higher level content, bag space, etc.

 

That model has proven to work incredibly effectively. Games like LotRO and DDO have used it to become massively profitable. I've played both to a fairly high level, and enjoyed both of them. Would I of purchased the game as a sub? No, I don't think I would have... Would I download it and play it for free, then spend some cash on it to further my fun, if that seemed like a good idea? Yes, I would, and I have. I even subscribed to DDO for a couple of months and had a blast.

 

Just because a game goes f2p doesn't mean it makes less money, and doesn't mean that it's a sign it's doing badly. Free to play is the future believe it or not. SWTOR was pipped as being the last serious pay to play game that was ever going to be released (source: GameSpot analyst). It's failure to capture a large market share just pays homage to the fact that the pay to play model is failing, and consumers, as well as developers/producers are slowly moving away from it.

 

Interesting post/points you make, but you missed my argument totally. Maybe you just quoted me and responded to someone else?

 

There is no such thing as "free to play".

 

Whether the model "works" or not is not the subject of the post you quoted. I will not, ever ever ever, play a free to play game the way I will a sub based game. In full disclosure I have played LOTRO, DDO, DCUO, RoM, Shaiya (sic? I don't even know how to spell that game it was so terrible), et. al.

 

As a longtime subber to EQ1, I checked it out since it went "F2P" and guess what? You have to pay a monthly fee to get bag space, bank space, level access, etc. How are they gonna handle all the junk I still have in my bank? Withhold it until I pay them? I didn't even bother to re-download the client and I have very fond memories of playing that game.

 

DCUO, you can have a maximum of 2k cash on any character at any time unless you pay for the ability to carry more.... base price for a typical item on their auction system? Around a MILLION. F2P is a marketing term that has no factual basis in reality. The gameplay isn't bad for an arcade style button masher but I haven't touched it for more than a few minutes since I got into the 11-11 beta for SWTOR.

 

In short, what works doesn't work for me. Every single f2p game I have bothered to try has been worth a free turn at but has zero ability to make me pay for basics or to keep me playing for any substantial period of time.

 

I am satisfied with the SW:TOR sub model, I will continue to sub, if it goes "F2P", I will not play it.

[Anti_Bodies]

Games shouldnt always be about making money, greedy companys deserve to fall there corrupted foundation can only last so long.

 

Video Games are a business. Companies need money to make new games, pay employees, and maintain games like this. It cost them ALOT of money to keep SWTOR running. It is extremly ignorant to think that because a company uses the popular subscription model that it is greedy. Business's should try to make as much money as they can.

 

Without that, their would be no swtor.

[ThiborF]

Games shouldnt always be about making money, greedy companys deserve to fall there corrupted foundation can only last so long.

 

So I guess those who take the risk should reap the reward?

Whether it be a large publishing company like EA that dumps hundreds of thousands or even millions into marketing, a group of investors that pony up initial development funds or those actually working on the game directly should benefit from the fruits of their labor?

 

The box price has become a standard. New games are $50-$60 for those regarded as being a top tier game. A lesser amount seemingly are released at the 2nd tier ($30-$40) but usually that price point is where the top tier end up residing a few months post release. And then there are the Indie games which vary anywhere from free to as much as the developers feel is a reasonable price.

 

The subscription model has been around for quite some time dating back to the early days of Meridian 59 and Ultima Online. It has slowly gone up ... $10 early on seemed to be the norm, Asheron's Call 2 in late '02 was one of the first to charge $12 or $13 and then Star Wars Galaxies back in mid-'03 was the first (iirc) to charge $15 and it's been that rate for nearly 10 years. IMO, the fact it hasn't gone up more over that time is amazing to me given how inflation tends to work.

 

Now then, the subscription model is not the only ongoing revenue stream model available. There are other ways to achieve that revenue stream BUT, like a subscription model, there are potential risks and rewards. These other revenue streams are based on additional transactions. Some are larger scale like frequent expansion releases that are to be paid for. Others are micro-transactions and vary from in-game items to additional content, etc. The stigma often associated with the latter is the potential for people to buy the "I WIN" button type of thing. Or, it gets labeled as you have to pay if you want to compete with those that have more disposable income than you. The other option available to developers is in-game advertising. If you have a game based on current RL or some aspect in recent world history, finding ad placements in game would not be out of place. Seeing a Pepsi, Toyota or Dell sign in Coruscant though would tick a lot of people off as it simply does not belong there.

 

And at the end of the day, many of those clamoring for this or any MMO to be free are those simply looking for the "free lunch". They want to enjoy something but don't want to pay for it. At the end of the day each of us decides what our dollar is worth to us. Personally, $15/mo makes this very cheap entertainment. Heck, last night in dart league I got "hung" (only loss for our team in the round of singles) and had to buy a round. I had a $60 bar tab with tip. That was for one 4hr evening out with friends. That's FOUR MONTHS of an MMO and I get much much more than 4 hours of play. Same is true for many other chosen venues of entertainment. Lawn seats for Maiden this summer, Carolina Rebellion in a week and a half (all day concert festival), Rush in the fall ... all things that are going to be a single day/evening of entertainment and cost much more than a month of a MMO. And you can add to the list typical dinner/movie/date nights, weekend trips to the coast or mountains, etc as well plus many many more hobbies all costing way more per hour of entertainment. Heck most peoples' cable bills are probably similar as well compared to the number of hours they actually spend watching TV.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

I am curious to see how GW2 changes the MMO industry. If their launch breaks records, I would imagine developers will definitely look at their B2P model for future titles.

 

I am not a Guild Wars fan by the way...

 

The launch can breaks records, sure, but that will not mean the B2P model will be successful. Depending on what they charge to keep the MMO in working order will make or break GW2. From what I hear, they have a cosmetic item shop and purchasable character slots. Those two alone might cover the costs (depending on the altoholics and the shoppers) but if they don't sell then GW2 may start charging more important things. We'll have to see after their first patch.

 

F2P can be a workable solution for many games, but in general, a game which begins as subscription based and then moves to a F2P (or hybrid) model is doing so because of a drop in subscriptions, or a prolonged period of no growth. (I believe CoH moved to the F2P hybrid that it currently is because it was no longer grwoing at the rate they wanted it to). Just because a title goes F2P does not mean it is dead. CoH is now putting out some pretty interesting stuff (if you like CoH at all that is), and DDO has grown quite a bit since they went F2P.

 

Interesting thing about that City of Heroes Freedom thing. Little backstory, if you will:

 

I was a 9 month Vet with City of Heroes. I preordered the Going Rogue Expansion and leveled a Hero and Villain to 50. I was a huge fan and frequented their forums. Nicest group of people you will ever meet.

 

 

Now during my time there, many players and myself asked for new travel powers and costume pieces and tons of stuff to be added in. NCsoft always told us "It's just not possible at this time, the models can't do that power, the streets can't support this travel style etc". However, almost immediately after the game went "Free", everything we ever asked for was suddenly on the Paragon Market and cost us Paragon Points. Hoverboards, Time powers, special costumes, every single suggestion was suddenly available even though months before we were told they would never happen.

 

It proved to us that NCsoft not only had the goods, but also wanted us to pay out the wazoo for it all. When a game goes "Free", it just means they are no longer hiding their intentions. They want your cash and will hamper your game experience to get it. If Star Wars went free to play, I guarantee everything you ask for will have a big ol' price tag on it. Sandbox features, 3D space combat, alien species. All for the "low" price of $19.99.

 

Free 2 Play is a lie. It's Pay More to Enjoy, plain and simple.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Darth_Moonshadow

[Vincynt]

Look most people dont even want to pay subscriptions anymore and free to play mmos are more appealing.

Not that I've done a survey or complied a report or anything but I believe that statement to be false. You can make an educated guess based on the sheer number of subscribers WoW (I monthly subscription based game) compared to the number of players in any F2P title and reasonably assume that the majority of people playing MMO's prefer to pay a montly subscription. You can also search these very forums or every thread on subscription versus F2P and see that the majority in each of those threads want's a monthly sub and not Micro Transactions that F2P brings about.

 

This game will only suceed if very soon they move it to free to play, because look at what coming and you really think with the bad press this game has anyone is going to want to sub to it with better games coming out.

I think SWTOR will still have a subscriber base of over one and a quarter million for a while yet. I can see it falling still through out the year. Newly launched MMO's always have infliated sub numbers in the first 6 months while people boom to it, play the beejesus out of it, then move on either temporarily (I have a friend who rotates thru around 4 mmo's playing each for a few months till he's "caught up" then moving on eventually to swing back around when new content comes out) or permenantly. And I honestly don't believe F2P solves any of the problems with SWTOR. And as for what's coming, I played TERRA's BETA, wasn't overly impressed myself. D3 is F2P with a Cash Shop, and GW2 is F2P. The Secret World might have a shot at taking me away for a while (I love a good conspiracy and the entire game just intrigues me) but other then that there isn't a sub based MMO coming that I would readily say I'll jump ship for. But that's just me I suppose.

 

Depending on your definition of success SWTOR already has. with the units sold and monthly subs so far collected it's reasonable to assume EA already made a profit on the game. And in business as soon as you're in the black you're successful. I suppose it's a matter of degrees.

 

As for making the game better, well there are lots of posts regarding that all over the place so I won't touch that with a 10 foot pole save to say that the performance issues are probably the biggest concern BW should have.

 

Free to play would let people play swtor while they playing other games and raise populations so that it becomes more a sucess, the sub model is failing and that the reason why it didnt sell as many as it could off.

I don't think F2P will help the population. People who want to play are already playing. And in general F2P costs MORE over the long term for players then a subscription model does. I don't think the sub model has anything to do with sales or current subscriptions and IMO dropping the sub model will not fix what's broken. They need to do some server mergers to fix the population issues. They opened up way too many servers to alleviate queues due to the player base crying about not wanting to wait in line. And now here we are. Merge some servers, fix up character transfers and allow them. Then sit down and fix the performance issues and streamline the client. Content is not SWTOR's issue...

[Lokai]

Look most people dont even want to pay subscriptions anymore and free to play mmos are more appealing. This game will only suceed if very soon they move it to free to play, because look at what coming and you really think with the bad press this game has anyone is going to want to sub to it with better games coming out. Free to play would let people play swtor while they playing other games and raise populations so that it becomes more a sucess, the sub model is failing and that the reason why it didnt sell as many as it could off.

 

last time i checked bioware had close to 1 mill subs or over... fact of matter is subs=more stable revenue... sure f2p would draw in players by the boatload but would also chase some players off in same turn. TOR doesn't need to be f2p and is in no risk of floundering because its a sub based game. 15 dollars is POCKET change now days, heck i work 10-20 hours in a min wage job and i can still afford 15 dollars a month with out issues HECK i pay more then that to go to movies, or eat out in 1 weekend... it is less then 5 dollars a week... some people just odd...

[Lugosi]

F2P would be horrible for SWTOR.

 

Lol at all the people saying LOTRO isn't pay to win. It most certainly is.

-You can completely change the legacies on your legacy weapons and increase their level through the Turbine store.

-You have to spend Turbine points to unlock deed slots.

-You have to spend points to even experience some content.

-Crafting recipes and mats can be bought with Turbine points.

-Fastest mounts in the game can be bought with Turbine points.

-etc, etc, etc

 

How is this not pay to win? With enough Turbine Points and little effort you can get almost anything in that game.

[AidanLightwalker]

F2P games are not free to play... all of them still charge the equivalent of a normal subscription fee for things like bank space and character slots. Moreover you still have to pay for DLC things that are now "free" with a subscription. Imagine having to pay for the rakghoul event access, that's the "F2P" model.

 

$0.50 a day, that's it. You can't even buy a can of coke for that price. I used to blow greater than $10.00 in a night at an arcade back in the day. I'm more than happy to pay the fee.

 

my 2 cp.

 

Totally agree.

[FooBard]

This game will only suceed if very soon they move it to free to play, because....

I'm glad you're not a marketing stategist.

 

The day this game goes Free to play is the day I unsub and uninstall.

 

Guarenteed.

[Cerion]

It If Star Wars went free to play, I guarantee everything you ask for will have a big ol' price tag on it. Sandbox features, 3D space combat, alien species. All for the "low" price of $19.99..

 

To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if a Space Expansion came out and cost money. SWTOR could go f2p and put in an item shop, or SWTOR could simply put all those items in the next X-pac and it would amount to the same thing.

 

The real issue is how does a company take your money whilst keeping you happy about it.

[TalonKul]

Why do I feel like it's always little kids who are having a hard time getting their parents to pay the subscription that make these F2P posts? Hmm. Probably because that's exactly the case.

 

Thanks for giving me a laugh with your "games shouldn't always be about making money" post. I guess he thinks that Bioware, LucasArts, EA get an allowance like he does.