Powertechs

[KBSIP]

Let's go ahead and summarize most of what's been mentioned on this thread;

 

1) powertechs should be a priority target for a smart team because they're easy to kill and have high damage potential, the shift in focus to "OP" classes such as sintanks and sentinels causes DPS to waste time during immunity phases and then they suffer because the powertechs are engaging without pressure due to a failure of prioritization.

 

2) pyro powertechs burst potential relies almost exclusively on the target remaining under the burning effect of their DoT from CGC and incendiary missile. As such, a smart healer or class with a purge will use it reverently to mitigate a pyro's damage potential while they are focused down, essentially hard-countering the pyro class mechanics.

 

3) most complaints about pyrotechs and responses to how to take them down center on people saying they shouldn't have to focus on purging DoT's against a DoT reliant class. The foolishness of this statement should be self-explanatory.

 

4) in the grand scheme of things, powertechs are largely balanced. The overpowered burst/utility hybrid spec was removed by the bump up of jet charge in the tanking tree, and PPA took a nerf to its ability to chain together multiple procs (most is two within a 6 second window initially, and then 2 within a twelve second window after that, with varying intervals between them). The real issue that arises is all burst classes took serious buffs from the shift in TTK that came in 1.2. The shift to more focus on interrupts that has happened gradually has also enhanced the healing nerf, further exacerbating the damage issue. As of now the only truly viable healing class I've seen in PVP has been operatives because of their large amount of instant cast heals that keeps them resilient to interrupt heavy classes.

[Poulay]

^

 

Pop all Trinkets, get the rare: TD > Flame Burst > rail Shot > Flame Burst> Rail shot > Rocket punch > Railshot.

 

The tears were glorious. Glorious I tell you.

 

It was like unleaching hellfire. that was terrific. But it's gone now...

[Lovia]

Can you cleanse the dot ? Yes

 

Can we reapply it automatically? Yes

 

Does it make us waste a GCD on reapplying it instead of rail shotting? Yes (Note: This is the important part)

 

why does every seem unable to process the fact that you can remove both dots if they are on thats 2gcd worth of pyro abilities plus the damn thermal detonator.

 

And remember this is mostly from the perspective of the operatives/scoundrel healer who casts instants nearly all the time.

[Lovia]

Let's go ahead and summarize most of what's been mentioned on this thread;

 

1) powertechs should be a priority target for a smart team because they're easy to kill and have high damage potential, the shift in focus to "OP" classes such as sintanks and sentinels causes DPS to waste time during immunity phases and then they suffer because the powertechs are engaging without pressure due to a failure of prioritization.

 

2) pyro powertechs burst potential relies almost exclusively on the target remaining under the burning effect of their DoT from CGC and incendiary missile. As such, a smart healer or class with a purge will use it reverently to mitigate a pyro's damage potential while they are focused down, essentially hard-countering the pyro class mechanics.

 

3) most complaints about pyrotechs and responses to how to take them down center on people saying they shouldn't have to focus on purging DoT's against a DoT reliant class. The foolishness of this statement should be self-explanatory.

 

4) in the grand scheme of things, powertechs are largely balanced. The overpowered burst/utility hybrid spec was removed by the bump up of jet charge in the tanking tree, and PPA took a nerf to its ability to chain together multiple procs (most is two within a 6 second window initially, and then 2 within a twelve second window after that, with varying intervals between them). The real issue that arises is all burst classes took serious buffs from the shift in TTK that came in 1.2. The shift to more focus on interrupts that has happened gradually has also enhanced the healing nerf, further exacerbating the damage issue. As of now the only truly viable healing class I've seen in PVP has been operatives because of their large amount of instant cast heals that keeps them resilient to interrupt heavy classes.

 

Signed.

thanks for putting it together.

[Bbizzle]

Basically, we had better survivability/burst before. But now alot of other people got nerfed, so its more aware to people, You arent seeing 6 sorcs a game with thier aoe lul spec. So now people are noticing single target damage, and other classes SEEM OP due to thier hard counters being nerfed to the point people dont want to play them.

 

The whole assassin tank spec DPS gear thing is OP now, but sorcs and sages used to shred these guys because they couldnt be deflected or what have you. But a vast majority of these guys quit or rerolled.

 

And I know alot of you will say oh and assassin could **** a sorc, yeah, but a sorc could **** an assassin in a team pvp situation, with positioning and space. And thats what they were meant to do. Casters that arent effected by tank stats are supposed to **** tanks.

 

Powertechs and vanguards in their current spec with plasma cell on in assualt, If you run across a not nerfed operative that knows what they are doing they will wreck us out of stealth if we dont have all our defense CDs. But even less of those play now days, So our hard counter is gone. I can tell you that any powertech or vanguard assualt spec that says he has an easy time with assassins or shadows is lying. Or they are fighting terrifail scrubs. Because thats another one.

 

Despite people thinking its not, this game is very much rock paper scissors, its just not to the extent its been in other games.

 

Ive ran into really pro healers and as long as they arent solo healing thier team, they can kick cleanses on the incindeary round and cut the damage a powertech/vanguard in assualt does by half over the duration of a warzone.

 

Nothing pisses off a vanguard/powertech more than people constantly cleansing their **** before they can high impact bolt. And plasma cell counters it some. But not completely, it still has to proc the fire dot on the person.

 

I kinda figure we will get nerfed. But I hope they dont absolutely gut the class like they seem to be doing for nearly every class they run across. Because after us, it would be assassins/shadows.

[Mayams]

Just because they don't burst AS much as they used to a month ago doesn't mean they are no longer broken. Powertechs are still a 100% faceroll class and make winning the Voidstar virtually impossible if playing as Rep.

 

I know entire guilds of (the top on their servers) incredibly strong PvPers who unsubbed and left the game for good simply because of the incredible imbalance regarding the Powertech.A whole team of level 50's geared out to the nines couldn't take on one Powertech with a shred of skill a month ago. I'm sure it's still the same. In pre-50 WZ's it sill is.

 

Forget all this talk about Marauders, Powertechs are still the most OP class in the game.

 

8 well geared 50's couldn't take 1 PT.

 

Clearly I am the worst VG (Pub PT Mirror class) ever. I'm surprised i can coordinate my hands and mouth together to effectively feed myself. 6 is the most I can take at once .

 

I think we're done here.

[me_unknown]

Does it make us waste a GCD on reapplying it instead of rail shotting? Yes (Note: This is the important part)

 

no! this is wrong. you are spamming ion pulse (vanguard version) anyway to get the proc which applies it every time. you aren't wasting any cd to keep a dot running!

 

beside of this it is neither practical nor realistic that a healer is perma cleaning your dots. this won't happen, neither in pugs nor in ranked. if he does BE HAPPY as it causes more harm than healing.

 

it is the same idiotic claim that the sents/maras seem to sustain currently. cleansing is NOT A COUNTER to their, neither to our damage. that's total bulls.hit!

 

Ah, my misunderstanding, I apologize.

 

If a Pyro is wasting a few GCDs on trying to proc their 16% chance DoT from spamming extremely low damage auto-attacks, that is pretty much a best-case scenario for you. Congratulations, you've just found a moron, and you may commence w/ your free kill. : )

 

actually you are also wrong. yes you have only a 16% procc chance, but it is PER BULLET! your hammer shot will proc it with a probability of around 60%. beside of this you know that an assault specced player has 100% chance on ion pulse + an additional direct appliable burning dot.

 

CLEANSING IS NO COUNTER!!!

 

though, i disagree with some concern about assault vanguards/pyrotech powertechs being overpowered. their burst potential has been reduced greatly. there are no consecutive procs for HIB anymore due to a 6s internal cd, avaraging out on a proc every 12s.

what remains are our burst of the combination of a few abilities which do similar damage even not assault specced and considered over a whole fight are on par with most classes. assault/pyrotech has been nerfed more than enough.

[SaulSerpine]

PT is easier to kill than a marau, that s all. PT have a 30% damage reduction (heavy armor) while the marau has 25% reduction. However, most of the damage doesn't care about armor (intern) and it is only 5% (difference). 2 defensives cd for PT (25% redution for 12 s and a weak healing.). What about marau ? You have predation (MS 50%, 10% def), obfuscate (-90& precision), vanish (45s cd), undiying rage (5s), saber ward (50% defense, 25% reduction)....

 

The PT is a not a ranged class, you can open at range but you need to stay at 4-10m to proc your HIB/RS and IT IS THE BUTTER BREAD of PT.

 

Yes a PT can do huge damage but the force users don't accept this because all the kids are playing sorceres/marau/jug and assassin.

 

I dont say marau are op but stop asking a nerf for the PT to avoid the nerf marau, that s pathetic.

 

sorry for my english, not my native tongue.

Edited April 26, 2012 by SaulSerpine

[Spiderbubble]

On my server, Powertechs are a rarity that I cannot even describe.

 

My guild has ONE Powertech. We have about 100 members by now excluding alts. That is how rare they are. On top of that, I never see them in PvP either.

 

I'm not sure what it is, but the class is virtually unseen on my server (Warriors of the Shadow). I'm not sure what's going on with it, but it's making me want to roll one in the future (regardless of me anticipating going Tanksin/DPS Mara/DPS Sniper/Healer Merc; the Bounty Hunter is the only one missing so far).

[Owynyo]

CLEANSING IS NO COUNTER!!!

 

Not true. On my server there is an operative and a merc healer who regularly dispel my dot(s) + kite me around objects (alderaan mid for instance - bottom level), it gives them the time needed to either get around the corner or get that extra instant heal off before being hit by high damage.

 

It's especially effective if they anticipate me switching to them and already dispel my very first dot. (Incendiary missile (dispel) -> Thermal Detonator (-9% dmg), no rail shot, can't Rocket Punch immediately after to rail shot again).

[iphobia]

Not true. On my server there is an operative and a merc healer who regularly dispel my dot(s) + kite me around objects (alderaan mid for instance - bottom level), it gives them the time needed to either get around the corner or get that extra instant heal off before being hit by high damage.

 

It's especially effective if they anticipate me switching to them and already dispel my very first dot. (Incendiary missile (dispel) -> Thermal Detonator (-9% dmg), no rail shot, can't Rocket Punch immediately after to rail shot again).

 

Halvar, I've seen what you and Starja can do to the people on our server. For gods sake, thanks you are the only 2 pubs who can play this and have gear.

You mention Operatives and Mercs, what about Sorc-heals? I've mostly played against you as Dps, where I had absolutely no chance. As heal I'm having big problems with you guys and i have yet to see that cleanse works on any of your DoT's. As far as I've seen you can completely destroy Sorcs, but I would like to hear your opinion on this. Opinions/experiences of others are also welcome.

Edited April 26, 2012 by iphobia

[truevalon]

Powertechs, pyro at least, has remains largely unchanged since release. If anything they have been nerfed since then. They have just been flying under the rader while everyone have been whining and crying about tracer spamming mercs and backstabbing operatives.

[truevalon]

You should have seen what we could do pre-1.2 if you think the burst is crazy right now. : )

 

Thermal Override/Explosive Fuel->Incin missile->4k TD crit, 5k RS crit, 3k RP crit, 5k RS crit.

 

That was pre surge nerf.

Edited April 26, 2012 by truevalon

[SaulSerpine]

Powertechs, pyro at least, has remains largely unchanged since release. If anything they have been nerfed since then. They have just been flying under the rader while everyone have been whining and crying about tracer spamming mercs and backstabbing operatives.

 

The Pt pyro was nerfed with the 1.2. To proc PPA (RS reset), you need to have plasma cells, it is not working anymore with ion cell. Plus, you have a 6s cd on RS proc. This nerf was justified.

[truevalon]

The Pt pyro was nerfed with the 1.2. To proc PPA (RS reset), you need to have plasma cells, it is not working anymore with ion cell. Plus, you have a 6s cd on RS proc. This nerf was justified.

 

But if you read the topic you will see people are crying about how much damage PTs do post 1.2. When they were actually nerfed

[Sookster]

My PT is shield spec and I'm kinda sadpanda that they screwed up my pvp centric build with talent boxes moved around and heat blast is terrible so I spam flame burst most of the time (thankfully it still does good damage as shield spec). My pyro merc is still doing decent damage, I basically dropped power shot off the toolbar and continue to cycle abilities, the 6 second PPA isn't that noticeable because once you get that railshot off and prepare to unload or explosive dart and some other abilities, that 6 seconds has passed already and fusion missile with the 30% dot damage under 30% health is a godsend.

 

Good PT's can still kill fast.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Sookster

[exphryl]

no! this is wrong. you are spamming ion pulse (vanguard version) anyway to get the proc which applies it every time. you aren't wasting any cd to keep a dot running!

 

2K attack in 10m vs potential ranged 5K+ Crit.

 

Yes. I call that a waste of a GCD if I get a PPA Proc

 

beside of this it is neither practical nor realistic that a healer is perma cleaning your dots. this won't happen, neither in pugs nor in ranked. if he does BE HAPPY as it causes more harm than healing.

 

Operative Healers can do it just fine and with amazing efficiency while keeping themselves at high health and healing others around them. Add in the places in Warzones where they can "Pillar" hump it becomes a much more frustrating endeavor trying to kill them.

 

I'm sure you'll be seeing a boatload of these guys in Ranked anyways as they are, in my opinion, the only healer worth a damn in PvP. (Give or take the random guarded Mercenary)

 

Also, cleansing creates a potential stalemate between the two classes which, in this wondeful team environment, a teammate has to come to help kill the other. (Which than it comes down to which teammate gets their faster)

 

it is the same idiotic claim that the sents/maras seem to sustain currently. cleansing is NOT A COUNTER to their, neither to our damage. that's total bulls.hit!

 

To annihiliation it is. To Carnage it is not.

 

 

 

actually you are also wrong. yes you have only a 16% procc chance, but it is PER BULLET! your hammer shot will proc it with a probability of around 60%. beside of this you know that an assault specced player has 100% chance on ion pulse + an additional direct appliable burning dot.

 

16% Chance. Using 10 bullets. That means you have 10 times at a 16% Chance. "Probable" != Actual. It's still 16% no matter how you slice it.

 

CLEANSING IS NO COUNTER!!!

 

It is. Especially if you are ranged and we can't get within 10m. Cleansing is not a counter for most of the people out there that want to Tank us. It's hilarious seeing sorcs stand in place while I destroy them.

 

Dear other players: Move, Kite, Cleanse, Snare. Etc. Unless you ARE a melee class, DO NOT STAND N PLACE.

 

I don't get why I have to argue with Pyros or Assaults on what does and does not hurt our class =/ It should be painfully obvious both the great aspects to the class, and the short comings.

Edited April 26, 2012 by exphryl

[Dayshadow]

you're playing as the tank spec if you're using leap, as its impossible to get the pyro burst with the leap anymore tanks to its increased position in the talent tree.

 

Pre-50 pvp isn't real pvp either, nothing reflect balance because you were fighting people who may have been 1) first time pvpers, and definitely people who didn't have access to their talent trees. crying OP because of your post is a sign that you suffer from the stupid virus.

 

Did I cry OP? No, I don't think I did. Take off your QQ googles.

[SaulSerpine]

But if you read the topic you will see people are crying about how much damage PTs do post 1.2. When they were actually nerfed

 

You're right, that's the point !

 

Expertise changes made burst-DPS classes very dangerous.

[me_unknown]

2K attack in 10m vs potential ranged 5K+ Crit.

 

Yes. I call that a waste of a GCD if I get a PPA Proc

and how do you get that proc? goddamit you get it with that 10m ability that you have to cast. hence you get the proc at the same time when you apply the dot. hence you have NO GCD WASTED!

 

Operative Healers can do it just fine and with amazing efficiency while keeping themselves at high health and healing others around them. Add in the places in Warzones where they can "Pillar" hump it becomes a much more frustrating endeavor trying to kill them.

simply not true. you cannot perma cleanse people and especially not all. beside the fact that even them having a cd of 4-5s for cleanse means that in 99% of the cases when you get a proc (which you get due to ion pulse) you still have the dot on your target. don't tell me that they manage to cleanse it every time within 1.5s gcd after the proc?

 

 

To annihiliation it is. To Carnage it is not.

it is not! once back in a while i was curious on this and i tried with my sentinel a duell with a friend who had to keep cleans on cd. it was a total waste for HIM! the only way he cuold reduce somewhat observable my damage was to wait till i had 3 stacks up AND my second dot. but to time that in a match is not very possible especially as healers have to switch targets and usually have to run from others.

 

16% Chance. Using 10 bullets. That means you have 10 times at a 16% Chance. "Probable" != Actual. It's still 16% no matter how you slice it.

i know math is the mandkinds weak. i think my hammer shot spits three bullets in 1.5s. the chance to have it applied with at least one of them is:

(1-0.16)^3 > 0.6

 

oh and it is quite observable in practice. i rarly need more than two hammer shots to get my ion cell applied or my plasma cell.

 

It is. Especially if you are ranged and we can't get within 10m. Cleansing is not a counter for most of the people out there that want to Tank us. It's hilarious seeing sorcs stand in place while I destroy them.

i think you try to fool people here with your nonsense....

you MUST stay within 10m to GET YOUR PROC! if you at higher range why do you even care about dots as you won't get any procs anyway?

 

I don't get why I have to argue with Pyros or Assaults on what does and does not hurt our class =/ It should be painfully obvious both the great aspects to the class, and the short comings.

 

because it is a big lie! cleanse is not dangerous at all for us. it is very very rare to affect us and this won't change in ranked matches. as pyro you ALLWAYS apply the dot automatically just before you get your proc.

[exphryl]

Sigh

and how do you get that proc? goddamit you get it with that 10m ability that you have to cast. hence you get the proc at the same time when you apply the dot. hence you have NO GCD WASTED!

 

The PPA Proc does not put Rail Shot on a "No-GCD" mode. It still costs a GCD. That is still time to cleanse between application of CGC Dot and than Rail Shotting. Granted, the person your fighting will have no idea they just made you use a weaker ability over a stronger ability due to the cleanse.

 

Also, as fights progress that proc in PvP goes ways to helping out heat management. Eventually we'll overheat if we can't get substantial Railshots off. (I'm referring to a healer here were between heals and cleanses we will be doing multiple railshots in the course of a fight)

 

i know math is the mandkinds weak. i think my hammer shot spits three bullets in 1.5s. the chance to have it applied with at least one of them is:

(1-0.16)^3 > 0.6

 

You seem to fail to understand basic fundamentals of percentages. At 16% per bullet again, it is not a guaranteed chance out of 100 Bullets, 16 will hit. You could theoretically go 1000 Bullets at 0 Hitting. Or 1000 Bullets 1000 Hitting. You don't know. Proc chance being per bullet leaves that up.

 

i think you try to fool people here with your nonsense....

you MUST stay within 10m to GET YOUR PROC! if you at higher range why do you even care about dots as you won't get any procs anyway?

 

Because the player I'm fighting kited me out of the 10M range. You know, what good players should be doing. Which was my point. They get out of range, they cleanse, we are shut down. What are you having trouble understanding with this basic concept of our class?

Edited April 26, 2012 by exphryl

[aRtFuL]

if you are not learning to recognize visual q's and the weaknesses of certain advanced classes, expect to continue to fail at PVP. there is always a learning curve, and people like you who blame pressure for refusing to adapt to the game are why we're still getting more cries for nerfs when it really is a genuine learn to play issue.

 

Right. I can see ur point is greatly reinforced by simply calling people who youve never played against before as fails base entirely on your paper counter theories, with no regards to actual pvp situations.

 

People fight in ways that they know best and is the path of least resistance when rapid decisions r required. This is fact of any sport science. You r suggesting that somehow some hard counter move should always happen with no regards to the situation and not doing so regardless of the situation is considered "bad" suggests to me that ur form of pvp is pokemon game card, not any mmopvp lol.

 

No plans ever survives the battle intact.

[Kimmjongheals]

Your tears fuel my PPA procs please keep them coming. /thread Edited April 26, 2012 by Kimmjongheals

[Fredder]

Just wondering, is anybody having as much of a problem with them as I am?

 

Pre 1.2 they never really concerned me, post 1.2 the burst damage is just silly...[/quote

ya ive got a powertech pyrotech i dont see any diffrence, ut mara/sents thats a diffrent story.

[Bloodtau]

It's the opposite. pre 1.2 I was deadly as hell, now I suck donkey balls.