Tank Assassins (and Shadows) are ruining PvP.

[cycao]

I have been playing this spec since early access and regardless of what may or may not happen will continue to do so. If the devs thought this spec was OP they would have done something for 1.2. There has been plenty of complaints about this spec prior to the launch of 1.2 maybe as much or more than ops/scoundrels. People seem to get this idea that if you play a tank sin you are instant god class...I have played against my spec enough to realize this is not true.

 

We only have two (2) real defensive abilities that we can use in PvP force shroud which only stops force/tech when this happens go to weapon based attacks. Deflection which boosts melee and ranged defense by 50% for 12 seconds (most say useless). Dark ward is pointless in PvP. Maras/sents get more defensive cool downs.

 

Our self heal aka harnessed shadows/darkness is what makes up for our lack of defensive mitigation and I know dark charge adds 150% armor boost...trust me that without this self heal no raid group would want a tank to tank (crazy). When you see a enemy player with a doublebladed lightsaber...stun, knockback, knockdown, force camo, cloak, los...pretty simple a good player counters this with ease.

 

I understand that with a good mix of surge/power/crit mods in BM gear we can get some really good numbers but those dont mean anything without a win. I have not had the luxury to min max my gear that much as I was a victim of the rng system but with the change it is going to be easier to do this.

 

Funny thing is, if they do decide to nerf, balance w/e you call it, they have to do something with the other trees because right now there is no real reason to play them as they can be pretty darn squishy if you have no guard or no healer.

[JustTray]

Sins are really not remotely OP compared to any warrior, or really any dps class. The change to expertise insured that.

[TheGreatFrosty]

Rofl, the other shadow trees are fine. Relatively, they are simply not as powerful as the tank spec, which is ridiculously overpowered.

 

Balance and Infil are both fine and good players perform incredibly well with them. They just aren't as easymode as the tank spec. You have high damage, high burst with sprint and stealth. Anything else? The burst can be equal to that of an operatives, yet this is still an issue?

 

You have resil even in your DPS specs. The argument that the other two specs are "gimped" is so fundamentally flawed, and ironically it's only the people abusing this PVP easymode spec that make such an argument.

 

Btw, the argument that it clearly isn't overpowered because the devs didn't put it in 1.2... which bit of 1.2 suggests the Dev have any idea of what they are doign? Seriously?

Edited April 19, 2012 by TheGreatFrosty

[Metoz]

Rofl, the other shadow trees are fine. Relatively, they are simply not as powerful as the tank spec, which is ridiculously overpowered.

 

Balance and Infil are both fine and good players perform incredibly well with them. They just aren't as easymode as the tank spec. You have high damage, high burst with sprint and stealth. Anything else? The burst can be equal to that of an operatives, yet this is still an issue?

 

You have resil even in your DPS specs. The argument that the other two specs are "gimped" is so fundamentally flawed, and ironically it's only the people abusing this PVP easymode spec that make such an argument.

 

Btw, the argument that it clearly isn't overpowered because the devs didn't put it in 1.2... which bit of 1.2 suggests the Dev have any idea of what they are doign? Seriously?

 

Any good player can change a game. It has nothing to do with the class they are playing, After experiencing each of the classes in high end pvp with top of the line gear I can honestly say Balance Isn't the issue here. So cry some more, and spend your time on adding towards something more constructive, something this game actually needs. Nerfing classes certainly isn't one of them.

 

Seriously though, if you honestly think this class needs a nerf. You should really consider leaving this game.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Metoz

[Tyraelium]

We had a counter...4 months ago. Called an Operative.

 

However, the PvP team decided to listen to crybabies and nerf class after class until now, Assassins are now in their radars.

 

Assassin Tanks have largely received no changes from launch until now (Wither gained a small boost, and Harnessed Darkness stacks became easier to apply...the community is just crying and crying about each class they don't like, and now, here we are. Keep on crying for nerfs instead of learning to play. Maybe then you'll be the best at PvP one day!

 

And you wonder why DROVES of PvPers have already long abandoned this game.

[JustTray]

Rofl, the other shadow trees are fine. Relatively, they are simply not as powerful as the tank spec, which is ridiculously overpowered.

 

Balance and Infil are both fine and good players perform incredibly well with them. They just aren't as easymode as the tank spec. You have high damage, high burst with sprint and stealth. Anything else? The burst can be equal to that of an operatives, yet this is still an issue?

 

You have resil even in your DPS specs. The argument that the other two specs are "gimped" is so fundamentally flawed, and ironically it's only the people abusing this PVP easymode spec that make such an argument.

 

Btw, the argument that it clearly isn't overpowered because the devs didn't put it in 1.2... which bit of 1.2 suggests the Dev have any idea of what they are doign? Seriously?

 

Just for the record, you cant do a 31-31 spec. Seems like you dont know that. Darkness dps is terrible, even in dps gear. The highest crits i see on my sin are around 2-2.5k, 3k max.

 

My merc hit a sorc for 7.8k yesterday, no adrenal.

 

And no deception spec is not viable in pvp. You lose over 20% damage mitigation for one stun that you cant hurt the target during.

 

Basically your post is wildly inaccurate and its obvious you dont have the first clue as to how sins work or how their specs function

[Jatne]

Rofl, the other shadow trees are fine. Relatively, they are simply not as powerful as the tank spec, which is ridiculously overpowered.

 

Balance and Infil are both fine and good players perform incredibly well with them. They just aren't as easymode as the tank spec. You have high damage, high burst with sprint and stealth. Anything else? The burst can be equal to that of an operatives, yet this is still an issue?

 

You have resil even in your DPS specs. The argument that the other two specs are "gimped" is so fundamentally flawed, and ironically it's only the people abusing this PVP easymode spec that make such an argument.

 

Btw, the argument that it clearly isn't overpowered because the devs didn't put it in 1.2... which bit of 1.2 suggests the Dev have any idea of what they are doign? Seriously?

 

At the OP: The game should NOT be balanced around Huttball. Period.

 

The other two specs are not really viable in coordinated team play. Assassin/Shadow has no 3D viability in two of their specs, it just so happens that the only 3D viability (Pull) is in the tank tree (Kinetic Combat/Darkness).

 

As for their burst being equal to that of Operative, I find that quite outrageous. At no time can Tank Assassins CC lock for 8 seconds and do upwards of 10k damage. Most of their damage comes from procs on Shock, which you cannot set up in stealth (unlike OP/Scrap burst) and LS/TKT which is CCable, just not interruptable.

 

If they wanted to 'balance' Tanks the ONLY tweak they need to make is to the feat "Energize" in the third row of the Darkness tree.

 

Before anyone jumps on the fact I play Shadow, I am the one nerd that refuses to spec out of Infiltration because I find the other specs far too boring.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Jatne

[cycao]

Rofl, the other shadow trees are fine. Relatively, they are simply not as powerful as the tank spec, which is ridiculously overpowered.

 

Balance and Infil are both fine and good players perform incredibly well with them. They just aren't as easymode as the tank spec. You have high damage, high burst with sprint and stealth. Anything else? The burst can be equal to that of an operatives, yet this is still an issue?

 

You have resil even in your DPS specs. The argument that the other two specs are "gimped" is so fundamentally flawed, and ironically it's only the people abusing this PVP easymode spec that make such an argument.

 

Btw, the argument that it clearly isn't overpowered because the devs didn't put it in 1.2... which bit of 1.2 suggests the Dev have any idea of what they are doign? Seriously?

 

Agreed that the damage can match that of an operatives. Force shroud is the only defensive ability that they have as deflection boosts defense that they dont have. Honestly when I see voltaic slash since it is the most noticeable animation in the game that player is going to get burned down fast...really fast. High burst ok dps but is hands down the squishiest dps class in this game.

Edited April 19, 2012 by cycao

[TheGreatFrosty]

Any good player can change a game. It has nothing to do with the class they are playing, After experiencing each of the classes in high end pvp with top of the line gear I can honestly say Balance Isn't the issue here. So cry some more, and spend your time on adding towards something more constructive, something this game actually needs. Nerfing classes certainly isn't one of them.

 

Seriously though, if you honestly think this class needs a nerf. You should really consider leaving this game.

 

Most objective assassins/shadow tanks will be able to tell you that they feel overpowered. Most people I know who have played one can agree. This seriously isn't an "L2P" issue, and that's just another weapon people use to defend their class when they know it is being rightly threatened.

 

Balance and Infil are both specs which are equal to other DPS in the game, with the exception of sentinel (but that's an entirely other issue) . Class balance in 1.2 is sincerely broken compared to pre 1.2, there is no doubt about it. It is a fest of Powertechs, ***/shadow tanks and marauders.

 

I should probably clarify I am referring to pyro powertechs there.

Edited April 19, 2012 by TheGreatFrosty

[JustTray]

Most objective assassins/shadow tanks will be able to tell you that they feel overpowered. Most people I know who have played one can agree. This seriously isn't a "L2P" issue, and that's just another weapon people use to defend their class when they know it is being rightly threatened.

 

Balance and Infil are both specs which are equal to other DPS in the game, with the exception of sentinel (but that's an entirely other issue) . Class balance in 1.2 is sincerely broken compared to pre 1.2, there is no doubt about it. It is a fest of Powertechs, ***/shadow tanks and marauders.

 

I should probably clarify I am referring to pyro powertechs there.

 

I have 3 50s. Sin merc and jugg.

 

Pre patch i would have agreed. Now my sin is my weakest char.

[TheGreatFrosty]

I have 3 50s. Sin merc and jugg.

 

Pre patch i would have agreed. Now my sin is my weakest char.

 

You didn't stipulate whether it was a tank *** you are referring to or not. At these times I ask to people to consider their claims of the "low" survivability shadow/assi against other classes. Someone had said to me before that infil/balance specs are poor because they do not "scale well".

 

I am confused, how does any DPS with low survivability (which shoud be an inherent part of being a DPS) 'scale' well? Take Operative or Scoundrel for example, scrapper spec they are required to get in the same proximity to the group, with the same in combat stealth (although no resilience to clear DOTs, provide immunity and break slows).

 

Now let's flip it, what about a Sage in balance spec? Low burst, DOT dependant spec and goes down like a feather. It has sprint and shield, which are fine, but I would easily submit that Resil + Sprint + in combat stealth make DPS shadow/assassins one of the DPS classes with the most survivability, or at least, certainly not the one with the lowest.

Edited April 19, 2012 by TheGreatFrosty

[AidenPryde]

As a Vengeance Juggernaut I know for a fact something is wrong when a Tankassin can pull more DPS on me than I can on him.

 

Both the PT tank and Assassin tank specs are overpowered compared to Immortal tank (which is why it boggles my mind that any self respecting Juggernaut specs as Immortal). Especially the Assassin tank spec. It is disgusting really.

 

The big issue is not solely their survivability or their offensive capability. It is the fact that they have a tank's damage mitigation and do as much DPS as I, as a DPS spec can pull.

 

Even when I pull the endure pain + WZ medpack trick they still manage to beat me more often than not. I'm not some recruit geared Jugg either. I have 4 pieces of Augmented gear with the purple Might augment, the rest BM gear, with 2 pieces of the Augment gear having War Hero mods in it (so I maintain the set bonus).

 

People compare the Marauder immunity to the Force Shroud ability that Tankassins get. They really cannot be compared as the Marauder ability takes 50% of your health away and does not remove any hostile effects, and does not make your immune to CCs.

 

Force Shroud on the other hand removes all hostile effects, makes you immune to Tech and Force, and immune to all CCs.

 

You can also stealth as a tank which is an extremely powerful ability.

[Apollonel]

yeah well, i hear you, but i wont be playing this game much longer.

 

failcom and ncfail are launching two very interesting, mmos.

gw2 looks very very good. especially if u like competitive pvp.

 

only ones left ot play this game will be people like by cousin

"yeah its not the best game, BUT IT'S STAR WARS!"

he would buy a million dollar turd if it had the star wars logo on it -_-

Edited April 19, 2012 by Apollonel

[JustTray]

You didn't stipulate whether it was a tank *** you are referring to or not. At these times I ask to people to consider their claims of the "low" survivability shadow/assi against other classes. Someone had said to me before that infil/balance specs are poor because they do not "scale well".

 

I am confused, how does any DPS with low survivability (which shoud be an inherent part of being a DPS) 'scale' well? Take Operative or Scoundrel for example, scrapper spec they are required to get in the same proximity to the group, with the same in combat stealth (although no resilience to clear DOTs, provide immunity and break slows).

 

Now let's flip it, what about a Sage in balance spec? Low burst, DOT dependant spec and goes down like a feather. It has sprint and shield, which are fine, but I would easily submit that Resil + Sprint + in combat stealth make DPS shadow/assassins one of the DPS classes with the most survivability, or at least, certainly not the one with the lowest.

 

I ran deception all the way to 50 then even pvped for a while until i realized how inferior it is to Darkness. Its literallly not viable because you have the same DR as a sorc without dark charge. Hence darkness is all you see.

 

My jugg is currently specced immortal, which really isnt bad at all. Its just not a dps spec. You get 3 ccs in this spec including unchanneled choke that you can ravage uninterrupted during. Warriors im general are superior to sins in every way, except maybe aoe.

 

I think the reason warriors qq about sins is because they get countered by them. Why? Because tank sin has a shield even in dps gear, and mitigates a huge % of their damage vs the sin that uses almost all force attacks. Basically sins beat warriors 1v1. Not always, but usually.

 

Lastly my merc is full BM full rakata. He respecced from heals after the spec was killed and hes more powerful than both my other chars combined. He dies, but i get about 5 kills per death and can melt any player on the map at anytime in under 10s. This worries me much more than sin

[Vase]

I have been saying this about all the tank classes, why be a pure dps at all. Tanks are better in many ways for the defend to win style of WZ we have. Dont even talk about how good all the tanks are in Huttball. Dps isnt everything its about who gets the kills. DPs tanks can kill just as fast or faster then even geared dps and they can survive much longer to call for help.

[Valant]

Tank specced Assassins have always been OP- nothing new here to see, folks.

 

Place one to guard a door or node, or use one as a guard bot (that can also do 300-400k in a Civil War-have seen it ALOT) and you easily, at least 95% of the time, have a win. I'm a DPS specced Vigilance Guardian with over 1750 STR when buffed-always in the top 3-4 DPS on my server in WZ matches. My numbers are up with the Sentinels post 1.2, but I cannot kill a Tank-specced Assassin solo that knows how to play- and most of the time, even when we have two people attacking a node that one Sin is on- help can easily arrive before the guy goes down.

 

Let's say we do somehow manage to 2v1 or successfully 2v2 a Sin and another player guarding a node- all the Sin has to do is fly back to the node and you basically have the node automatically guarded for another 4-6+ minutes. The imbalance is clearly there to see for those not playing a Sin. Its also quite obvious for those who play high skill cap classes that don't play Face>Keyboard classes.

 

It has nothing to do with my skill, and everything to do with too many defensive cooldowns, too much mitigation, and far too much damage for an Assasin in tank spec. If I specced defensively as a Guardian, I seriously would have trouble getting 175k-250k DMG in ANY warzone- let alone 400-600k in some cases that I've seen good Tank Assassins achieve.

 

Now that DPS Scoundrels and Focus Guardians have been nerfed, its almost impossible to kill an Op/Merc healer with a good Tank Assassin guard unless you have at least 4 dedicated DPS focus targeting both of them- and even then it takes far longer than it should to take down the combo. Something clearly needs to be done about this if they are going to nerf other classes like they have.

[nToxiK]

I like how attention has been diverted from Marauders/Sentinels. God job!

[lijahrobinson]

It seems to me, at least on my server, that there have been snipers showing up in droves. They got alot better since 90% of the matches are no longer huttball and their heavy hitting white damage abilities seem perfect for giving assassins fits. I wonder if this was part of some self-balancing scheme and one of the reasons that the tanksins escaped a nerf.

[Polimeris]

It seems to me, at least on my server, that there have been snipers showing up in droves. They got alot better since 90% of the matches are no longer huttball and their heavy hitting white damage abilities seem perfect for giving assassins fits. I wonder if this was part of some self-balancing scheme and one of the reasons that the tanksins escaped a nerf.

 

Nah. As a gunslinger I can confirm you that assassins survive longer than the other tanks against us.

I am not saying that we kill tanks fast though (dirty fighting is reasonable fot that job, but not fast), but assassins clearly stand out among specialists and immortals.

[MrHotter]

Having some good DPS options high in the 'tank' tree seems odd.

 

That's why I'm playing a shadow right now. So many goodies to help a team win in PvP with DPS on top of that.

 

I went tank with my BH instead of pyrotec to help my team win rather than do nice DPS. That's why tank assassin/shadow is so nice. We don't have to give up much on the damage end to keep all our team abilities.

 

It's like having tracer rounds be a 21 point skill in the healing tree.

 

Assassin/shadows who say their class is not OP are baddies, liars, or have not played any other class.

 

I think it's funny how Ops have been nerfed three times now and the shadow/assassin have been left alone. The assassin DPS tree that people say is terrible still leaves the player with more team abilities than a DPS operative while doing the same damage.

[Enexemander]

I have been saying this about all the tank classes, why be a pure dps at all. Tanks are better in many ways for the defend to win style of WZ we have. Dont even talk about how good all the tanks are in Huttball. Dps isnt everything its about who gets the kills. DPs tanks can kill just as fast or faster then even geared dps and they can survive much longer to call for help.

 

Because tanks cannot kill healers (yes, even darkness assassins in full dps gear are terrible at this because they have no burst damage).

 

If you cannot kill people, you cannot win objectives.

[Rickwala]

I must be a terrible tankassin because i get destroyed by marauders, and commando/smugs take me down all the time and have never done over 400kthe damage. You guys love to exagerate and use 1 or 2 of the awesome players on your servers as the example of how all sins perform....

[LoKiei]

Tank sins/shadows are OP, much more then marauders.

[killerwookie]

I have a tank sin,sorc and operative that i pvp with. The operative used to be my main, running around in Full BM gear with well over 1k Expertise. My Sorcerer was my 2nd choice, wearing full champ. My sin was 3rd choice wearing not quite a full set of centurion with maybe 1or 2 bits of champ.

 

since 1.2 my sin (who has 700 LESS expertise than my operative) is now, by far the best pvp toon I have. Far more survivablility, gets less deaths each game than my other 2 toons (which meeans less waiting around in the respawn area), makes an excellent ball carrier, can handle 2 ppl on it at once, can mitigate a huge amount of dmg...and CC as long as i keep using force run, and is as a result, is the most enjoyable of the 3 to pvp with these days.

[Jatne]

Tank sins/shadows are OP, much more then marauders. ~ a Marauder.

 

Fixed it for you.

 

I have a tank sin,sorc and operative that i pvp with. The operative used to be my main, running around in Full BM gear with well over 1k Expertise. My Sorcerer was my 2nd choice, wearing full champ. My sin was 3rd choice wearing not quite a full set of centurion with maybe 1or 2 bits of champ.

 

since 1.2 my sin (who has 700 LESS expertise than my operative) is now, by far the best pvp toon I have. Far more survivablility, gets less deaths each game than my other 2 toons (which meeans less waiting around in the respawn area), makes an excellent ball carrier, can handle 2 ppl on it at once, can mitigate a huge amount of dmg...and CC as long as i keep using force run, and is as a result, is the most enjoyable of the 3 to pvp with these days.

 

You mean to tell me that a Tank with defensive cooldowns and utilities can survive more damage than a Rogue and a Mage Archtype?

 

STOP THE PRESS - GAME BREAKING NEWS GUYS.

 

^ Sarcasm, incase you missed it.