What is wrong with the new Warzone rewards? What can be done to fix the problem?

[SHLOOMPA]

It’s the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, yea I’m bad I don’t have all battlemaster, but how am I supposed to get better if I don’t get at least 3 medals I don’t get any commendations and I don’t get at least 3 medals because my armor expertise isn’t high enough to boost my damage enough to make a difference.

 

I can’t buy battlemaster gear because I don’t have any commendations it’s just a never ending downward spiral. People say oh you must just be bad well yea you were lucky enough to get all battlemaster before they made it impossible to commendations. The people with all battlemaster get all there medals and are usually on the winning team and get even more commendations that they don’t need while the loosing team gets nothing maybe 50 commendations if there lucky.

[Proxus]

/Signed.

 

I personally don't mind the way the system is working now, but it IS flawed and the decline in pvp population is already noticeable in the longer queue times.

 

I honestly have no problem having all players be equally geared either, because then it just boils down to skill.

 

Excellent work OP.

[Arkerus]

Problem # 1: Soldiers still get paid when they retreat. Throw us a damn bone Bioware. How about 1000 credits for playing even if we lose?

 

 

Problem # 2: The weeklies are the same as the dailes in terms of rewards. How the hell does that make any sense at all?

[nerlin]

The PVP game is so badly ruined since 1.2 its not even remotely fun any more. Asking a select kind of self grandois PVP players for feedback was not the best sampling of over all "fun" aspect for the game. It was a good thing to get player feedback, it wasn't so good to make the sample size of player feedback so selective. We see the result.

 

I can't bring myself to play level 50 PVP anymore. Since i might as well watch water boil. Under level 50 PVP where the game is not as badly ruined is sorta of fun still.

 

-Z

[Szopu]

Thanks for this posty. I completaly agree and you've underlined the biggest problems we currently have.

The part that bugs me most about the PvP right now (prolly because I play sorc healer that got hit with a nerf stick really hard) is TTK. There's no tactic in the game anymore, dps (especiallty maruaders/sentinels) can kill anyone and I can't do anything about it. There's no need for "focus healer" rule, since even one dps is able to kill me in no time, most of the time I can't even run away.

 

Right now I'm queuing ONLY with 2 guys from my guild (both of 'em in BM gear they earned before 1.2) as going with PUG makes no sense. Also if we see anyone around 12-13k HP in our group we instantly leave - I've never done this before but as OP stated, it's just not worth playing if the chances that you're gonna lose are very high from the beginning.

 

/signed

[piterdevries]

It's interesting that since the patch, every aspect about the WZs that Bioware has tried to fix has grown worse.

 

People quitting losing warzones? check

People rolling over and surrendering in a WZ? check

Puggers getting steamrolled repeatedly by premades? check

Queue times growing longer as people get discouraged? check

 

I'm hard-pressed to see how they could have made it worse, and I don't say that lightly. I have played about 20 wzs since the patch came out, and in every single match the losing team began quitting immediately afterwards. When I play through the whole thing and queue again, I go right into another match where there are 2 people on one team and the other side is dominating, etc. It's not enjoyable, win or lose.

 

Bioware, you took something that was a lot of fun and wrecked it completely, maybe beyond repair. That takes some doing, and I would salute you, except that I was one of the people having fun.

 

I know this was playtested on PTR, but the only people I ever saw testing it were people in high end PvP guilds. Perhaps you'll think twice before listening solely to their input again.

[MightyHalo]

It's interesting that since the patch, every aspect about the WZs that Bioware has tried to fix has grown worse.

 

People quitting losing warzones? check

People rolling over and surrendering in a WZ? check

Puggers getting steamrolled repeatedly by premades? check

Queue times growing longer as people get discouraged? check

 

I'm hard-pressed to see how they could have made it worse, and I don't say that lightly. I have played about 20 wzs since the patch came out, and in every single match the losing team began quitting immediately afterwards. When I play through the whole thing and queue again, I go right into another match where there are 2 people on one team and the other side is dominating, etc. It's not enjoyable, win or lose.

 

Bioware, you took something that was a lot of fun and wrecked it completely, maybe beyond repair. That takes some doing, and I would salute you, except that I was one of the people having fun.

 

I know this was playtested on PTR, but the only people I ever saw testing it were people in high end PvP guilds. Perhaps you'll think twice before listening solely to their input again.

 

I have probably played 75 wz's since 1.2 and I agree completely. I don't think the game can recover now.

[gwrtheyn]

/sign

 

the gear difference is for "new" chars not so big

cent/champ geared old twink ~ 550 expertise

1h old lv50 twink with 2k+1k warzone coms -> 3 bm pieces(weapon+2x impl),rest recut -> 950expertise

Edited April 18, 2012 by gwrtheyn

[Seydis]

The is essentially that they've now created a catch-22 situation with the punishment system (I don't see how we can call these rewards, let's just call it what it is).

 

You need good gear to win a WZ, but you need to win WZs to get the gear. Seems pretty simple and obvious. Just fix it. People need more rewards or they will leave WZs and SWTor in general, it's really as simple as that. Unlike the sports analogy, this is a leisure activity for people, and when it becomes more frustrating and leisurely, it's pretty easy to decide to no longer pay that $15 permonth. And, BW has VERY little time to fix this or they will hemorage PvP subscribers.

[Dirtnugget]

Agreed 100%. Overall comm gains needs to be raised, and there needs to be an actual incentive to having high valor.

[Nigyl]

/signed!

[LordbishopX]

Joined a wz this AM it was 2 vs 6 they had scored 3 pts stopped and just started passing the ball around for the entire rest of the match. It was strange but this is what the changes have done passing the ball let everyone get medals and with a last sec score I being one of the two received rewards now that was sad........

[AryiaLee]

/sign and BUMP.

 

Bioware are you listening?! The imbalance on my server is HORRIBLE. We're already having these issues bad. People leaving warzones, Veteran PVP players ready to quit, spending hours getting steamrolled to get just one win.

 

We need a fix and QUICK.

[YamamotoRo]

The new warzones are GREAT!

 

You focus, play objectives, with a bit of luck and team play you Win and you get the reward.

 

You lose, mainly because you dont play objectives, you dont have luck with pugs but you want rewards. No way, make one premade, fix l2p issues and try again.

 

Less QQ, more PewPew!!!

[LordbishopX]

The new warzones are GREAT!

 

You focus, play objectives, with a bit of luck and team play you Win and you get the reward.

 

You lose, mainly because you dont play objectives, you dont have luck with pugs but you want rewards. No way, make one premade, fix l2p issues and try again.

 

Less QQ, more PewPew!!!

 

2-4 vs 6 - 8 I don't care how you focus or play objectives you get stomped and waste your time for 0.

[MarkoJinn]

Agree with everything you said...

 

I do want to post an idea I have. Why not tie the rewards system to the total amount of expertise gear participating in each team? Compare the expertise totals of both teams and make rewards adjustments accordingly. So for example Team 1 : Team 2 = 2000 : 200 (expertise points). This means that Team 1 was 10 times more likely to win match solely based on expertise gear. Therefore Team 1 gets no boost to the final valor/credit/exp tally while Team 2 gets some sort of boost based on this ratio.

 

Again this is just a thought...

[flem]

I don't think it's a faction issue, but a haves vs. have-nots or hardcore vs. casual.

 

The majority of people I see queueing now -- on both sides -- are (1) fully geared, really good, qing in premades to win, or (2) too raw and clueless to know better. (Often, who wins turns on which side gets more of (2).) The large middle class of those decent&decently geared but not (by themselves) match-winners has been seriously thinned out, which sucks.

 

(It's possible they're all too busy having fun with rak circles and stuff, though.)

Edited April 18, 2012 by flem

[Malisaah]

well i can say i for one, if i dont get 3 medals so i can get point and rewards in a match i leave the match. my time can and will be used else where in leveling and getting credits or helping other guild members level, as i see it no points or rewards for my effert in fighting move on to the next war zone or other things to do. and when i tell the team good luck in the fight and im leaving all i get is greef from them since they all ready got there medals since the ones that have medals are force users and bounty hunters and im a lowly sniper marksman( damage) the best target to kill for easy awards all ways the first to die if you dont think so whatch who dies first in a war zone.

 

good luck and have fun. :sy_target:

[Parali]

Greetings,

 

We heard from many members of our community about the changes to warzones rewards in Game Update 1.2. As a result of player feedback, we have made some adjustments. Here is what Lead Game Designer Daniel Erickson had to say about the subject in his "On Warzones Scoring and Rewards" thread:

 

Hey folks,

 

Some follow up news from observations of play and feedback over the weekend. In the next couple of days we will be deploying a small patch that will address the following issues:

 

• As discussed, minimum medals to gain rewards will go from 3 to 1 to better reward those who are backfilled.
  
• Warzones will once again be shutting down when population imbalance is detected. This was an unfortunate bug where a feature of Ranked Warzones (in full team play it is not desirable to let one team end the game prematurely by quitting out) was incorrectly implemented globally.
  
• Completion of Warzones will gain a large increase in the percentage of rewards it represents, so while scoring is still the primary driver, you will cease to see games that give no rewards if players have a minimum of 1 medal earned.
  
• We are extending the time we wait for a full team of eight to better make sure Warzones pop with complete teams.

 

A huge thank you to everyone who played this weekend and provided valuable feedback and analysis.

 

 

Daniel also gives a little more background in the OP. We hope this sheds some light on the matter. Thank you for your feedback!

 

[EndlessObsession]

Thank you for your well thought out and well spoken post OP. I find it difficult to maintain composure with stoic precision as you have. The changes in 1.2 have made me so angry and bitter I find it harder and harder to play this game. The changes in Daniels post while appreciated, don't address the whole issue. Commendations, experience, and credits I feel should be awarded equally based on participation.

 

Q: Who likes to lose?

A: No one

 

Q: Do people need incentive to win?

A: Not really, human beings are naturally competitive. However, I'm not opposed to giving them more valor per win so those who need to can tout their valor rating.

 

Q: Does gear give you an advantage?

A: Most definitely, it matters too much imho

 

Q: Do most mature players enjoy steamrolling, or a good even fight that comes down to the wire?

A: Most mature players don't PVP to steamroll and grief the other team, they enjoy a close match.

 

Q: With the last question in mind, who needs gear more... the steamrolling pugstomping winners, or the people they just easily defeated?

A: Clearly, the winners.

Edited April 18, 2012 by EndlessObsession

[BigRedJedi]

Greetings,

 

We heard from many members of our community about the changes to warzones rewards in Game Update 1.2. As a result of player feedback, we have made some adjustments. Here is what Lead Game Designer Daniel Erickson had to say about the subject in his "On Warzones Scoring and Rewards" thread:

 

 

 

 

Daniel also gives a little more background in the OP. We hope this sheds some light on the matter. Thank you for your feedback!

 

 

Thank you for the update! Hopefully, this is a big step in the right direction, and helps return things to where most people are truly enjoying TOR's PvP.

 

Thanks for all the support!

-BRJ

[AmberGreen]

Hello everyone! As an update to this topic, we wanted to point out that patch 1.2.0c this morning made changes to help with Warzone Reward issues:

 

PvP

• Increased rewards for players on the losing side of Warzone matches.
  
• Players will now receive rewards for Warzones if they have earned at least one medal.
  

 

 

Thanks again for your feedback; we've been listening! o/''\o

[Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Hello everyone! As an update to this topic, we wanted to point out that patch 1.2.0c this morning made changes to help with Warzone Reward issues:

 

PvP

• Increased rewards for players on the losing side of Warzone matches.
  
• Players will now receive rewards for Warzones if they have earned at least one medal.
  

 

Thanks again for your feedback; we've been listening! o/''\o

 

The changes are great, thanks!

[Striker_KOJ]

Thanks again for your feedback; we've been listening! o/''\o

 

We have been listening. Does that imply that you are no longer lisenting, and you feel this was all the action that was necessary? Just being a stickler, but I'm sure youre going to get a lot of response asking why X feature, or bug, or whatever, hasn't been fixed, and your post doesn't really indicate that any more changes are coming, being worked on, or even considered.

[Lostpenguins]

We have been listening. Does that imply that you are no longer lisenting, and you feel this was all the action that was necessary? Just being a stickler, but I'm sure youre going to get a lot of response asking why X feature, or bug, or whatever, hasn't been fixed, and your post doesn't really indicate that any more changes are coming, being worked on, or even considered.

 

Wow? Seriously? Yeah... they're just going to stop listening to community forums. Um... no, they won't.

 

C'mon... I even get cynical at their lack of responses to certain issues sometimes, but your response is just silly.